How heavy a pop up camper could a 94 Nissan 4x4 handle? Looking at 4 Wheel Camper, Northstar and Palomino campers. Can anything be done to beef up the rear springs to handle a heavier load.
We had a great time on our trip. We cut out the "Falls"--too many miles in to little time. We drove a little over 3,000 miles. Averaged about 11 1/2 mpg. New truck did great: best mpg was 12.5 worst 10.5. We hope to leave again in about 2 weeks for a shorter trip. Mike--I leave my jacks on just in case I have a problem and need to take the camper off.Steve--Congradulations on your new camper. What sharp edge are you talking about? Never noticed one on mine.Vince--I will send some pictures later.
What is the load rating of your truck? It should be in the owner's manual. Your camper rating will be about 1/2-2/3 of the load rating. In all likelyhood that will limit you to a 4Wheel Camper. They are about the lightest available at 800#.
For comparison, my 99 Silverado 4x4 has a load capacity of 2000# and a camper capacity of 1340#. When we loaded a 1200# camper, myself, my wife, food, water, gas, clothers, etc. we were right at the maximum capacity of the truck. You might look at a larger truck and a used camper.
Oltroll - welcome back! Always nice to see someone using the camper and having a good time. You didn't miss the 'Falls', you are simply saving that for another trip!
4 days till vacation starts!!!!!!
Hey Vince, you want to take 6 weeks and go to Alaska and NWT next summer?
If you plan on coming up here to Alaska again a great route to take is to go down the Tok cutoff and then down the Glenn Highway to Anchorage. The Glen highway is awesome and it has great fishing all along the highway, Another great road is the Denali Highway but it is mostly dirt like the Dalton but it too is beautiful. The Dalton Highway is one hell of a road isn't it? I tow my boat down there all the time to put it in on the Yukon to go fishing and moose hunting. That road is a true test of a truck to haul anything up that road and back.
Mike, please refresh my rapidly diminishing memory. How long ago did you take your Alaska trip? I ask because you called the Cassiar a "gravel" highway, but everything I've been reading says there isn't but one 20-30km (about 15 miles) section left unpaved. Be nice to hear the "true facts" from one who's been there.
Likely anything you would want to own would exceed the official limit for your truck. That said, if you stick with a lighter weight popup and put some overload springs or air bags on the rear you would get away with it. The problem of course is the rest of the truck: axles, brakes, transmission. I would check the rear axle rating and not exceed that but the others can be pushed.
Welcome back! I'm jealous of your trip. If only I didn't have to go to work every day I'd have time for those trips. Darn. What speed did you drive for those mpg figures you quoted?
We went up the Cassiar in '99. I don't remember it being paved at all. Certainly, from Stewart and heading north until well passed Dease Lake was not paved.
But, don't let that bother you. The gravel roads in the far north are generally smoother than the paved ones. The paved roads get all sorts of frost heaves and huge potholes. Gravel seems to be more forgiving and easier to patch. When traveling on those gravel roads, keep your eyes open for dark spots, or spots with different texture. Those can be soft spots. Maybe a patch of snow sat and melted on that spot, and it is soft, almost mud, and similar to a pothole. They are fairly easy to see and we never hit one at speed.
The Alaska highway is more or less completely paved, except for the 100+ kilometers under construction at any given time.
The Cassiar is quite a bit shorter than the Alaska highway and runs through the mountains. The Alaska highway from Dawson Creek to Ft. Nelson runs more in the foothills/plains. The largest Grizzly we saw was down on the road to Stewart/Hyder. And the Cassiar is nearly empty. We only had one other camper in campgrounds with us (early June).
Another good highway to run is the "top of the world" highway. It takes you from Whitehorse in the Yukon up to Dawson and then down to Tok, the highway goes through the Fortymile country and has some great scenery.
I set the cruse control at 62 on the better roads and went slower on the not so good ones. I never shifted into the "tow-haul" mode on the trip. It would down shift from time to time going up steep grades with the cruse control set at 62. The worst millage was coming home into about a 25 mph. head wind
We took the 'Top of the World' highway into Alaska. It was snowing so hard I couldn't see 100'. Snow stopped by the time we got down to the dredge.
Can't comment much on the views from that stretch, we couldn't see them!
My wife really liked Homer. We stayed in a campground out on the end of the 'Spit'. Great halibut everywhere. Great scenery. Great glaciers. Great wildlife.
In case you can't tell, I'm ready to return to the far north!
Did you make it down to Valdez? If you didn't next time you come up here you should go down there. Valdez has arguably the best scenery in North America. The mountains rise from the ocean up to 7000' everywhere. More wildlife than most people can imagine and fishing to die for. There are several full service R.V. parks there that will even book you charters for fishing and sightseeing. I tow my boat down there all the time to fish for silver salmon and halibut. Also there is a good test for your truck when you leave climbing up Thompson pass, most gas trucks that are towing boats spend most of the time climbing the pass in second gear it is very long and steep.
I have read your post 531 & 533 LINKS a dozen times to see if there was any clue as to how the factory option is supposed to work.
I am hoping that either of you or someone knows how this factory system is supposed to function because OnStar connected me with three different dealers and not a one had a clue.
Just returned from a week camp out (no 110vac where the hords of us camp) at the annual Oshkosh flyin event where i succeeded to run down all three batteries. One brand new marrine in the camper, the aux and needless to say the standard starter battery in the PU.
I (like a fool) assumed that the Aux Bat. Relay isolated the std. bat when the ignition is off and that i was only camping on the Aux. and Camper bat in parrallel.
The OWNERS MANUAL does state the following so i thought at least one dealer would have been able to say yeah-thats right because -------!! and i would follow the instructions -- but i would like to know why then, it comes factory wired the way it does.
OWNERS MANUAL Page 4-81 "The aux bat provisionn can be used to supply electrical power to additional equip. like a camper" --Shows a drawing of the RELAY located on passenger's side of the vehicle, next to the Aux Bat.-- & Shows cable connected to stud 'A' & stud 'B' (and this is exactly the way the truck is with two different heavy gage RED wires with covers, one connected to each stud)
Now the instructions go on --- "When using this provision, connection should only be made to the upper stud 'A'. Do Not make connection to the lower stud 'B' of the Relay. ----- etc.
OK- 1- So why does it come factory wired with a heavy red wire going to each stud?? 2- If/When i disconnect the wire to stud 'B' what was it their for in the first place.
MY NOTE - EACH STUD HAS BATTERY POWER WITH THE IGNITION IN ENGINE RUN OR ENGINE OFF POSITION so the relay is doing nothing it looks to me.
somebody that may be looking for a great deal on a camping membership. Not that I want to push a sale here but my family has not been able to use it as much as we hoped. Now the in-laws went and bought into a 5 star resort campground here in North Georgia, its hard to not go there all the time. Any help would be appreciated.
Sounds like the aux battery is set up right the relay is in line to open the connection if the battery voltage goes to low (probably around 10.5 v or so, the relay more than likely gets a control signal from some other sensor in the truck unless it is a self contained undervoltage relay. If you connect to the B stud you are feeding directly off of the battery and that will allow you to completely drain the battery, connecting to the A stud allows use of the undervoltage relay and thusly saving your battery.
But if it was set-up correctly, i should not have drained the std. PU batt (as it is, actually all three). you agree??
There must be some reason tha manual says 'no wire on stud 'b' but yet it comes from factory that way.
I want to find out exactly how the system is supposed to work befor I follow the owners manual and take the wire off stud 'b' as i would like to avoid hooking up the camper and simualate the failure again to see if the std. battery actually does disconect and not drain with the Aux and camper batt.
Thks - please keep your ideas coming. Dealers are No Help and their STUPID SHOP MANUALS being only available to them on computer now makes it almost impossible for them to search out Aux. Batt. information and solution. Or at least it's so time consuming they have no incentive to do it.
They say 'well you'll have to bring it in so we can test it'. Hell- I've already tested it to battery failure and i don't want them screwing around with something they admittedly know nothing about.
I ran into the same problem at the dealer regarding the aux battery. The parts guy and I couldn't figure out all the details from the docs so he just ordered all the parts so he could see them and figure out the documentation.
This is not a complex system. Don't despair, I'm 100% confident we can figure it out. I tried to send you some scans of the factory drawings but your email address isn't listed under your profile.
Some facts. There must be two wires on the relay for it to do the job. The factory is crazy, don't worry about why it's wired stupid, just fix it. You are correct in your assumption that the aux and camper batt should be in parallel and may be run down all the way without affecting the truck batt. This is why the relay is there and it does work because this is how my truck is set up.
We may want to do this by email but first I have some questions.
-Are you electrically/mechanically inclined? -Did you get the Camper Wiring option on your truck? -Who wired your camper? -Do you own a volt meter?
I have read your post over and over again and the only thing I can think of is that either the control circuit for the under voltage relay is bad or that you may have mistakenly connected to the B stud. As for the wiring, without looking at the wiring diagram I would assume that the B stud is the input to the relay and the A stud is the output,when the manual states that the connection should be made to the upper A stud and not the B stud they mean the connection to the camper.
We took the ferry from Whittier to Valdez. Awesome scenery, waterfalls, glaciers, eagles, whales, seals, etc. Valdez is where the sea and the mountains meet. Coming in it looks like the mountains rise out of the see with no room for a town. But there is a little space, and all of it is used. The campgrounds were more like big RV parking lots. Late June and the place was filling up. We went around and took the tour of the oil facility.
Thompson pass rises 2800 ft in 7 miles, if my memory is correct. That's 400 ft/mile, every mile, continuous uphill. Or, an 8% continuous climb. We had our 1500 w/4.8L engine, and had no problems maintaining speed up the hill.
Tonight we finish packing and tomorrow we take off for the month of August. We are bringing our laptop, but don't know how often, or even if we will be able to log on while on the road.
When I installed the Aux Battery relay in my truck, I followed most of Vince's instructions. I used the factory relay and the cable from the starter (fulltime source of +12V). The connector in the wiring harness supplies power to turn on the relay only when the truck is on. I have run down my aux battery without pulling down the main battery.
Anyway, the truck supplies a signal to the relay. Fulltime +12V goes into the relay, the other side of the relay goes to the aux battery and camper. And the truck +12V and the aux +12V are totally separate when the ignition is off.
If you can't get any help and want to see my hookup, I'll be close by about the 6th or 7th. You can call my dad's house (319)439-5348 if you want to get together for some corn nuggets or a Maid-Rite, or just to check out a working aux battery setup.
I will probably check this group one last time tomorrow morning before we leave.
vince4 - post 618 wk email loren.bovee@frco.com FAX 641-754-2731 1) elect/mech inclined?-Yes 2) camper wiring opt?-yes including 5th whl. 3) Who?-Camper plug and 5th whl-Me 4) Volt meter?-Yes
vince4/lariat1/mledtje - Here's the latest working with my dealer who called in a GM tech. adviser via phone and fax today. Received schematic for Aux Bat & camper wiring.
Turns out that the Primary Bat. is connected to camper wiring and Aux. bat is supposed to be isloated by the relay when ignition is off. (opposite of what we all thought but no big deal if the relay is working - battery is a battery so don't care which one goes to camper -- Primary or Aux.) When Primary/camper bat. run down relay is supposed to connect Aux. battery for starting which didn't happen so -- will be checking the relay tonite to see if it is functioning. Stay tuned later tonite and i'll post relay test result. Of course it could have been a relay failure but working now!!
Mike - Would like to meet you when you get to M'town. Please let me know which day it turns out to be and i'll drop what ever My wk phone 641-754-3401 -- I'm on the phone a lot so if you get my phone mail punch '0' and have me paged. If you don't mind Cessna Skyhawk rides let me know and might work for late evening when it cools down an NO bumpy air.
I would be surprised if the Aux battery was used to start the engine. That battery feeds through a 50A relay, and either the relay would fail, or the engine wouldn't turn over.
The signal to the relay on my truck has the relay open with the key off, and closed with the key on. My wiring is self made, and I ran the camper off the aux battery, and the main battery is totally isolated when the ignition is off.
We will take you number with us, and depending on circumstances, we may take you up on your offer.
Have a safe trip--look forward to getting together if it works for you.
Ok - The GM Tech. Expert today stated that the Primary bat is connected to camper charging system--(SPECIFICALLY Not Aux.) and the Aux. relay will close when the key is turned ON to bring the Aux bat online to provide the starting/system power if the Primary/Camper batteries are discharged.
I'll probably find out some revalation tomorrow and have to EAT these words (which i would be happy to do) BUT the way it looks to me rignt now - I CAN'T BELIEVE GM COULD BE SO INCREDIBLY STUPID.
TEST 1- The Aux. bat relay clicks when i turn the key ON and OFF so it is working. Key OFF relay open and Aux. bat is disconnected totaly from everything--i mean EVERYTHING. Key ON and relay closes and Aux. is in the circuit and would be charging if needed.
TEST 2- I disconnected the ground to the primary bat simulating a run down Camper & Primary bat. AND WHAT TO MY WONDERING EYES WOULD HAPPEN WHEN I TURN THE IGNITION ON ----- NOTHING - THERE IS NO POWER TO ANY SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS ALL FEED BY THE PRIMARY BATTERY (Why am i not surprised??).
Unless i have to eat these words tomorrow, the Aux. Battery is completly worthless as now provided by GM.
A dead main battery would mean you have no power to drive the relay and let the aux battery power the truck.
What is connected to the output of the aux battery relay? The input must be the aux battery, but where does it go?
I could understand the camper wiring going directly to the main battery. They set it up that way so it would work when no aux battery exists.
Can you find the feed wire that goes to the camper wiring, and connect that to the output of the aux battery relay? That would seem to solve GM's little screwup.
The Aux. bat goes to the relay. From the relay it joins the Primary bat at the starter terminal along with the heavy amp wiring.
Tomorrow it's going to be GM's turn to figure out how to get the camper power feed from where ever it is now to the Aux. bat.
The problem is going to be how to change the wiring harness so that the Aux. feeds to the camper harness and the primary is isolated from the camper harness when the ignition is off.
n75v111, do you have the camper wiring option or did you connect to stud A? It appears from vinces instructions that the camper option is designed to feed from the main battery through a 40 amp fuse, which he specifically did not do in his installation but used the relay output(at least as I read it). Is this correct vince?
OK, its midnight but curiosity got the best of me. I have the Aux battery but do NOT have the camper/5th wheel wiring option. Did following test: 1. switch off, both batteries connected - measured ~12 volts between stud A and ground. 2. Disconnected ground on Aux battery - measured 0 volts between stud A and ground.
This indicates to me that the voltage on stud A (relay output) is coming from Aux battery and is isolated from the starting battery. Thus connecting to stud A will run down the Aux battery but not the starting battery.
OK, I think I have it figured out. I took a look at the schematics and I see what they are doing, as strange as it is.
The aux battery relay is only energized when the key is in the RUN position, not the START position. The aux battery is a remote charger of sorts. When you kill the primary battery with your camper, you place the key in the RUN position for a few minutes. The aux battery charges the primary. Then when you turn the key to START, the relay opens to prevent starting current from flowing through it. I can't see any other way to benefit from the aux battery except with a set of jumper cables. That is actually not so crazy because the aux is always kept charged.
This is obviously a stupid system. The only reason I can think why they did it this way is so the camper/trailer positive feed doesn't have to be relocated on trucks with vs. without the aux option.
So Loren, this explains why you couldn't start your truck. You didn't know the turn the key and wait 10 minutes trick. I really wonder if enough charge would transfer to turn over the engine. It all depends on the relative voltage. Anyway the solution is just to move the STUD1 red wire (camper feed) from the Engine Wiring Harness Junction Block to the aux battery positive terminal on the aux relay. No other changes needed. Then you will draw off the aux when stopped and charge it when running.
buzzb, I'm not sure where your stud A is. If it's on the aux relay then you were just measuring the aux battery positive. When the ground was disconnected you no longer were measuring across the battery. Since the relay was open (key off) you weren't connected to the primary battery either. If you meant stud 1 over in the EWHJB fuse box, then somehow your truck got wired intelligently, but I doubt that.
I've updated my web site with the schematics and a brief explanation.
vince4, the stud A referred to is the output (top) stud on the aux relay. My experiment was to verify that the stud A relay output was connected only to the Aux battery when the switch is off. The owners manual says that stud A is protected by a "mega fuse" (whatever that is) behind the aux battery. Thus factory stud A behaves as it should, like your installation.
Relocating the stud 1 red wire camper feed to stud A should work as you describe and be protected by the "mega fuse". It would be interesting to see just what this fuse is but I don't feel like moving the battery.
It appears that GMC saved a few dollars by not rerouting the stud 1 (camper/trailer) feed to be from the aux battery when trucks were so equipped. If this is the case as vince4 describes, it is even worse because the main starting battery is not a deep cycle design and its life will be shortened being treated this way. The factory aux battery does not appear to be a deep cycle either, but one could substituted as vince4 did.
Please somebody tell me GMC wasn't this stupid/shortsighted.
vince - After lying awake till all hours last nite after i posted my #626 message, i came to your conclusion about moving the camper/5th wh feed from the primary bat over to stud A.
I'm going to advise my dealer today of the necessary change and request them to "?MAKE?" GM issue a Techincal Service Bulletin advising ALL dealers of this "SCREW UP" and provide PROPER INSTRUCTIONS on ----------- 1) Where to disconnect the POWER FEED in the Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment & the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Wiring Provision. 2) Provide proper WIRING HARNESS with SHIELDING and INSTRUCTIONS for SAFELY RE-ROUTING the camper/5th wh feed TO Stud A on the Aux. Battery Relay.
Short of getting this out of GM within the next 5 years i will require them to issue a letter for the same so that GM Legal Department can not later claim UNAUTHERIZED wiring changes.
The silver salmon are running and the Halibut are biting I hope to be there in a couple of days. This is a picture of Valdez Alaska taken this morning. If you look close you can see some happy campers out there.
Gm Tech. saying that Aux. bat not really intended to function with camper -- Dah!!! Stupidity at it best.
I sent a letter in part repeated below to a Gm Corp. Sales Planner contact that provide lot of answers during my six month delivey wait. --After considerable discussion over the Internet last night it is clear that GM should have ran the Power Feed for the Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment & the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Options to the auxiliary battery relay Stud A referred to in the Owners Manual on page 4-81 (terminal 'L' in the schematic you provided).
I would request that GM be asked to ISSUE a TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN when customers order the Auxiliary Battery TP2 Option in conjunction with Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment and/or the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Wiring Options ADVISING all DEALERS & CUSTOMERS how to properly and SAFELY reconfigure the power feed wiring from it's current location in the Primary Battery Circuit to the auxiliary battery relay stud A.--
His Response -- "Thanks for your letter explaining wiring problems with the TP2 Aux. Battery option. I can tell you that the factory option is on stop right now for revisions. The revisions will most likly result in a service bulletin to modify those already out. I'll send you another reply if I have any updates. In the mean time I will forward your comments to the brand Quality Team."
Be SURE when the red camper lead is connected to stud A to put an inline fuse of the proper size in. Otherwise your camper/camper wiring harness is only protected by the "mega fuse" (whatever that is) between the aux battery and stud A. I would hate to find out the hard way that it is way over amperage for the red camper lead.
Oh the saga of the auxiliary battery is winding down. Hmm, we've about covered Maid-Rites too, what's left? When Mike gets back he can tell us all about year 2001 Maid-Rites, I hope he wasn't let down.
75v, I don't know how important it is to you to have the factory do the fix vs. living with it the way it is. Since it's not likely anything will happen soon, I would just go ahead and make the change myself. If you do a good job they aren't going to make a fuss unless something in that system goes bad, and maybe even not then. One out you have is to do the work such that it can be restored to factory. Don't cut off the ring lug on the red wire, just use a bolt to connect it to a second ring lug (or use a breaker like I did). Other than that it's one wire going across the engine bay.
I agree with buzzb that the non-deep-cycle battery won't hold up to RV use for too long. Maybe when GM moves the wire they will start putting DC batteries in the aux position. I guess GM's thinking is that the extra battery really is just an auxiliary for self-jumpering or heavy loads and doesn't have anything to do with RVs.
Another way to wire the batteries is to install a switch for the batteries. They are readily available at RV shops and battery shops everywhere. I put a dual battery setup in my boat and the way I tied them together was with a switch. They are a make before break switch and it allows you to run on one battery or the other and it allows both to be tied together. Took about 1/2 an hour to install.
Not being willing to let the Great Battery Debate of 2001 "die out", let me throw my own 2 cents into the ring.
If the aux. battery is supposed to be a "recharge reservior" for the main battery (i.e. you're supposed to turn the key to the "on" position for several minutes before trying to start the motor), wouldn't it be **better** to have a deep-cycle battery as the "aux. battery" anyway? But an even more fundamental problem with the "recharge reservior" theory is this: how do you know that the "main battery" is good? If it's shorted internally, it will just drain the "aux. battery" as well, and you're no better off than you would have been if you didn't even have the "aux. battery".
If the idea is to be able to run the vehicle even if the "main battery" goes out for any reason, it's best to have the circuitry set up so the two batteries "swap roles"; in other words, the "aux. battery" is used to crank the starter motor and help regulate voltage (an important secondary role for the battery), while the "main battery" just passively re-charges, if it can. In this case, using two automotive batteries makes sense.
I think G.M. may have committed another "d'oh!" with this one.
vince - Yeh - i'm going ahead with getting the wire moved to the relay.
My official position to Gm and my Dealer is to get Gm to ackknowledge the screw-up and fix the problem, which according to the Sales Planner guy may be in the works.
It's kinda like trying to wag the dog, but when customers start using the 'SAFTY' word the DOG sometimes starts listening better.
BTW - Where is the camper feed wire connection actually at so i can disconnect it from the Primary circuit to extend it over to the relay??
Hey - The help/interest on this has sure been appreciated and it took this group about one nite to know what the solution was. The dealers only solution would have been 'ya gotta bring it in so we can test it!'
I'll try to take good care of Mike and the Maidrite deal when he gets here. (:-)
What I was asking is where is the camper feed wire connection actually at so i can disconnect it from the Primary circuit to extend it over to the relay?? (Now i would pay for this information (:-))
Does it go to a junction block somewhere? Wired directly into the master fuse block on the left front fender?
Physically where is the convenient point to disconnect that wire to extend it to the relay without cutting to allow the option of reconnecting it if one found it necessary for GM issue. I don't want to just pull it out of wiring harness and cut it.
I'm now convinced that we are all reacting to something which doesn't exist. What I mean is that the purpose of the aux battery option is to help run heavy electrical loads when the engine is on. We want to use it for an RV and blame GM because it isn't wired for our application. Certainly our way is better and they should connect the trailer wiring to the aux battery because it would then meet both needs. But I feel better about the whole situation now that I understand it.
75v, I thought you read my website battery instructions many times???? Maybe you just wanted to make me feel good. Ha. Anyway, the heavy red trailer/camper wire terminates on a stud under the fuse box thing behind the primary battery. If I remember correctly it's the left stud as you will be looking at it. You will need to lift the plastic housing to get at the nut. To remove the housing you must remove the fender brace above it, but I was able to free the wire without doing so. I just lifted it enough to gain access.
While you are in there, R&D Truck Accessories sells a nifty relay for $15 that keeps the low beams on when the high beams are on. It connects inside the same box. It's an easy install, they supply everything.
I did read that part of your post but was hoping there might have been another connection somewhere else. -- Sounded kinda complicated prying the fuse box up and all to get to that post. -- I even have printed your instructions (more than once now) and thought i had taken them with me - Didn't find em at the time though.
I like your nifty relay suggestion for the low beam on with high. If you think you can stand any more of this i'll get one on order -- Thanks
I'll bit the bullet and start prying on the fuse box soon as i get the Hi/Lo relay. Or maybe i'll have Mike show me when he get to the Maidrite!!
Don't worry about lifting the box, it's made to come off easy for access. The R&D instructions will have you remove the bracket and lift the box off entirely. I think it's one screw and then a latch to free with a screwdriver. Takes about 5-10 minutes including the bracket.
I also bought another black box from R&D that unlocks the doors when you put the trans in park. Maybe they offer this as a programming option on the new trucks but they didn't in 2000. I got tired of slamming into the door when I wanted to jump out for something. The box wires under the dash, costs about $30, and works flawlessly.
Thanks all for the great posts on the aux. battery factory option! This option was on my list when I ordered my 2001 GMC 2500LD. After questioning my dealer about how it worked, decided against it. (Dealer actually described it correctly it turns out). With the knowledgeable input by the group here, this topic represents the best of what this site has to offer. Great job! Tom
Glad you were able to get some useful information from us. I found Edmunds to be invaluable in 99 when the new style truck was coming out because the dealers knew nothing and I was hungry for information. I was thrilled to find this forum and talk with real owners.
If you want to add the aux battery to your truck as I did, I have a list of factory part numbers on my site. You probably know this if you've been reading along.
If its monday,we must be in Nebraska at my brother's house. Expect to pass through your area tomorrow.
We found a really nice camping area in Wyoming. Called Natural Bridge (County) Park), just off I-25 between Douglass and Caspar. A nice river runs through the canyon, under a 90' natural bridge. Very clean, neat and FREE!! We will stop on our way back. The only problem is the gates are closed from 8-8. So we have to sleep in that day!
I looked up GM production holds on wheels.com, and the TP2 Aux battery IS on hold "until further notice" for the Silv 2500 & 2500HD.
I had planned on getting that option for the HD I am just about to order (to pull a travel trailer I plan to buy). Seems I won't miss a lot. Thanks for you and the others distributing so much info that you worked hard to get.
The PY0 polished alum wheels are also on hold for the LS models (with the 1SB option package) - another option I had, and one that means more to me.
BTW - I read your early June posts on the "Introduce Yourself" page. What do you do for a living? I'm curious about the nuclear-related trip you had to make to upstate NY back then. I'm a reactor engineer/core designer on the TX Gulf Coast.
We will be leaving either Thursday or Friday for 5 to 8 days (or when the money runs out.) Going to the Cherokee Indian Reservation in the Mountains of NC for a few days of trout fishing and gambling in the Casino. Then we will go to the mountains of Tennessee for a few days. Fishing for me--shopping for the wife. Should drive about 12 to 1500 miles this trip. This will probably be the last long trip this year. Wife has to start back teaching when we get back. YUK!!!
The trailers we are looking at do have their own batteries. Adding the extra truck battery was just a low cost option. It's the Nuclear Engineer in me, I like defense in depth... I also like to keep my options open. Did I mention it didn't cost much in the option list?
Living in South Texas, I've fried some batteries in the heat. A spare for the truck also seems handy.
I'll look at using the golf cart batteries on the trailer, though. Thanks!
Comments
For comparison, my 99 Silverado 4x4 has a load capacity of 2000# and a camper capacity of 1340#. When we loaded a 1200# camper, myself, my wife, food, water, gas, clothers, etc. we were right at the maximum capacity of the truck. You might look at a larger truck and a used camper.
Oltroll - welcome back! Always nice to see someone using the camper and having a good time. You didn't miss the 'Falls', you are simply saving that for another trip!
4 days till vacation starts!!!!!!
Hey Vince, you want to take 6 weeks and go to Alaska and NWT next summer?
Mike L
The Dalton Highway is one hell of a road isn't it? I tow my boat down there all the time to put it in on the Yukon to go fishing and moose hunting. That road is a true test of a truck to haul anything up that road and back.
Next trip I will get that picture.
The Stewart-Cassiar Highway was my favorite gravel highway, though.
Mike L
But, don't let that bother you. The gravel roads in the far north are generally smoother than the paved ones. The paved roads get all sorts of frost heaves and huge potholes. Gravel seems to be more forgiving and easier to patch. When traveling on those gravel roads, keep your eyes open for dark spots, or spots with different texture. Those can be soft spots. Maybe a patch of snow sat and melted on that spot, and it is soft, almost mud, and similar to a pothole. They are fairly easy to see and we never hit one at speed.
The Alaska highway is more or less completely paved, except for the 100+ kilometers under construction at any given time.
The Cassiar is quite a bit shorter than the Alaska highway and runs through the mountains. The Alaska highway from Dawson Creek to Ft. Nelson runs more in the foothills/plains. The largest Grizzly we saw was down on the road to Stewart/Hyder. And the Cassiar is nearly empty. We only had one other camper in campgrounds with us (early June).
Mike L
Can't comment much on the views from that stretch, we couldn't see them!
My wife really liked Homer. We stayed in a campground out on the end of the 'Spit'. Great halibut everywhere. Great scenery. Great glaciers. Great wildlife.
In case you can't tell, I'm ready to return to the far north!
Mike L
I have read your post 531 & 533 LINKS a dozen times to see if there was any clue as to how the factory option is supposed to work.
I am hoping that either of you or someone knows how this factory system is supposed to function because OnStar connected me with three different dealers and not a one had a clue.
Just returned from a week camp out (no 110vac where the hords of us camp) at the annual Oshkosh flyin event where i succeeded to run down all three batteries. One brand new marrine in the camper, the aux and needless to say the standard starter battery in the PU.
I (like a fool) assumed that the Aux Bat. Relay isolated the std. bat when the ignition is off and that i was only camping on the Aux. and Camper bat in parrallel.
The OWNERS MANUAL does state the following so i thought at least one dealer would have been able to say yeah-thats right because -------!! and i would follow the instructions -- but i would like to know why then, it comes factory wired the way it does.
OWNERS MANUAL Page 4-81
"The aux bat provisionn can be used to supply electrical power to additional equip. like a camper"
--Shows a drawing of the RELAY located on passenger's side of the vehicle, next to the Aux Bat.-- & Shows cable connected to stud 'A' & stud 'B' (and this is exactly the way the truck is with two different heavy gage RED wires with covers, one connected to each stud)
Now the instructions go on ---
"When using this provision, connection should only be made to the upper stud 'A'. Do Not make connection to the lower stud 'B' of the Relay. ----- etc.
OK-
1- So why does it come factory wired with a heavy red wire going to each stud??
2- If/When i disconnect the wire to stud 'B' what was it their for in the first place.
MY NOTE - EACH STUD HAS BATTERY POWER WITH THE IGNITION IN ENGINE RUN OR ENGINE OFF POSITION so the relay is doing nothing it looks to me.
God Help!!!
75v
Mike - you back home from the Maidrite Already??
KO
But if it was set-up correctly, i should not have drained the std. PU batt (as it is, actually all three). you agree??
There must be some reason tha manual says 'no wire on stud 'b' but yet it comes from factory that way.
I want to find out exactly how the system is supposed to work befor I follow the owners manual and take the wire off stud 'b' as i would like to avoid hooking up the camper and simualate the failure again to see if the std. battery actually does disconect and not drain with the Aux and camper batt.
Thks - please keep your ideas coming. Dealers are No Help and their STUPID SHOP MANUALS being only available to them on computer now makes it almost impossible for them to search out Aux. Batt. information and solution.
Or at least it's so time consuming they have no incentive to do it.
They say 'well you'll have to bring it in so we can test it'.
Hell- I've already tested it to battery failure and i don't want them screwing around with something they admittedly know nothing about.
75v
This is not a complex system. Don't despair, I'm 100% confident we can figure it out. I tried to send you some scans of the factory drawings but your email address isn't listed under your profile.
Some facts. There must be two wires on the relay for it to do the job. The factory is crazy, don't worry about why it's wired stupid, just fix it. You are correct in your assumption that the aux and camper batt should be in parallel and may be run down all the way without affecting the truck batt. This is why the relay is there and it does work because this is how my truck is set up.
We may want to do this by email but first I have some questions.
-Are you electrically/mechanically inclined?
-Did you get the Camper Wiring option on your truck?
-Who wired your camper?
-Do you own a volt meter?
You can email me at vofm@home.com.
Vince
As for the wiring, without looking at the wiring diagram I would assume that the B stud is the input to the relay and the A stud is the output,when the manual states that the connection should be made to the upper A stud and not the B stud they mean the connection to the camper.
Thompson pass rises 2800 ft in 7 miles, if my memory is correct. That's 400 ft/mile, every mile, continuous uphill. Or, an 8% continuous climb. We had our 1500 w/4.8L engine, and had no problems maintaining speed up the hill.
Tonight we finish packing and tomorrow we take off for the month of August. We are bringing our laptop, but don't know how often, or even if we will be able to log on while on the road.
Later,
Mike L
When I installed the Aux Battery relay in my truck, I followed most of Vince's instructions. I used the factory relay and the cable from the starter (fulltime source of +12V). The connector in the wiring harness supplies power to turn on the relay only when the truck is on. I have run down my aux battery without pulling down the main battery.
Anyway, the truck supplies a signal to the relay. Fulltime +12V goes into the relay, the other side of the relay goes to the aux battery and camper. And the truck +12V and the aux +12V are totally separate when the ignition is off.
If you can't get any help and want to see my hookup, I'll be close by about the 6th or 7th. You can call my dad's house (319)439-5348 if you want to get together for some corn nuggets or a Maid-Rite, or just to check out a working aux battery setup.
I will probably check this group one last time tomorrow morning before we leave.
Later,
Mike L
vince4 - post 618
wk email loren.bovee@frco.com
FAX 641-754-2731
1) elect/mech inclined?-Yes
2) camper wiring opt?-yes including 5th whl.
3) Who?-Camper plug and 5th whl-Me
4) Volt meter?-Yes
vince4/lariat1/mledtje - Here's the latest working with my dealer who called in a GM tech. adviser via phone and fax today.
Received schematic for Aux Bat & camper wiring.
Turns out that the Primary Bat. is connected to camper wiring and Aux. bat is supposed to be isloated by the relay when ignition is off. (opposite of what we all thought but no big deal if the relay is working - battery is a battery so don't care which one goes to camper -- Primary or Aux.)
When Primary/camper bat. run down relay is supposed to connect Aux. battery for starting which didn't happen so --
will be checking the relay tonite to see if it is functioning.
Stay tuned later tonite and i'll post relay test result. Of course it could have been a relay failure but working now!!
Mike - Would like to meet you when you get to M'town. Please let me know which day it turns out to be and i'll drop what ever
My wk phone 641-754-3401 -- I'm on the phone a lot so if you get my phone mail punch '0' and have me paged.
If you don't mind Cessna Skyhawk rides let me know and might work for late evening when it cools down an NO bumpy air.
Cessna N1575V
Loren
The signal to the relay on my truck has the relay open with the key off, and closed with the key on. My wiring is self made, and I ran the camper off the aux battery, and the main battery is totally isolated when the ignition is off.
We will take you number with us, and depending on circumstances, we may take you up on your offer.
Mike L
Ok - The GM Tech. Expert today stated that the Primary bat is connected to camper charging system--(SPECIFICALLY Not Aux.) and the Aux. relay will close when the key is turned ON to bring the Aux bat online to provide the starting/system power if the Primary/Camper batteries are discharged.
I'll probably find out some revalation tomorrow and have to EAT these words (which i would be happy to do) BUT the way it looks to me rignt now - I CAN'T BELIEVE GM COULD BE SO INCREDIBLY STUPID.
TEST 1- The Aux. bat relay clicks when i turn the key ON and OFF so it is working. Key OFF relay open and Aux. bat is disconnected totaly from everything--i mean EVERYTHING.
Key ON and relay closes and Aux. is in the circuit and would be charging if needed.
TEST 2- I disconnected the ground to the primary bat simulating a run down Camper & Primary bat. AND WHAT TO MY WONDERING EYES WOULD HAPPEN WHEN I TURN THE IGNITION ON ----- NOTHING - THERE IS NO POWER TO ANY SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS ALL FEED BY THE PRIMARY BATTERY (Why am i not surprised??).
Unless i have to eat these words tomorrow, the Aux. Battery is completly worthless as now provided by GM.
75v
What is connected to the output of the aux battery relay? The input must be the aux battery, but where does it go?
I could understand the camper wiring going directly to the main battery. They set it up that way so it would work when no aux battery exists.
Can you find the feed wire that goes to the camper wiring, and connect that to the output of the aux battery relay? That would seem to solve GM's little screwup.
Mike L
Tomorrow it's going to be GM's turn to figure out how to get the camper power feed from where ever it is now to the Aux. bat.
The problem is going to be how to change the wiring harness so that the Aux. feeds to the camper harness and the primary is isolated from the camper harness when the ignition is off.
What a bunch of dorks!!
Have a safe trip- See ya in IA
Loren
1. switch off, both batteries connected - measured ~12 volts between stud A and ground.
2. Disconnected ground on Aux battery - measured 0 volts between stud A and ground.
This indicates to me that the voltage on stud A (relay output) is coming from Aux battery and is isolated from the starting battery. Thus connecting to stud A will run down the Aux battery but not the starting battery.
The aux battery relay is only energized when the key is in the RUN position, not the START position. The aux battery is a remote charger of sorts. When you kill the primary battery with your camper, you place the key in the RUN position for a few minutes. The aux battery charges the primary. Then when you turn the key to START, the relay opens to prevent starting current from flowing through it. I can't see any other way to benefit from the aux battery except with a set of jumper cables. That is actually not so crazy because the aux is always kept charged.
This is obviously a stupid system. The only reason I can think why they did it this way is so the camper/trailer positive feed doesn't have to be relocated on trucks with vs. without the aux option.
So Loren, this explains why you couldn't start your truck. You didn't know the turn the key and wait 10 minutes trick. I really wonder if enough charge would transfer to turn over the engine. It all depends on the relative voltage. Anyway the solution is just to move the STUD1 red wire (camper feed) from the Engine Wiring Harness Junction Block to the aux battery positive terminal on the aux relay. No other changes needed. Then you will draw off the aux when stopped and charge it when running.
buzzb, I'm not sure where your stud A is. If it's on the aux relay then you were just measuring the aux battery positive. When the ground was disconnected you no longer were measuring across the battery. Since the relay was open (key off) you weren't connected to the primary battery either. If you meant stud 1 over in the EWHJB fuse box, then somehow your truck got wired intelligently, but I doubt that.
I've updated my web site with the schematics and a brief explanation.
http://members.home.net/vofm/batt/batt.html
Let us know what happens!
Vince
Relocating the stud 1 red wire camper feed to stud A should work as you describe and be protected by the "mega fuse". It would be interesting to see just what this fuse is but I don't feel like moving the battery.
It appears that GMC saved a few dollars by not rerouting the stud 1 (camper/trailer) feed to be from the aux battery when trucks were so equipped. If this is the case as vince4 describes, it is even worse because the main starting battery is not a deep cycle design and its life will be shortened being treated this way. The factory aux battery does not appear to be a deep cycle either, but one could substituted as vince4 did.
Please somebody tell me GMC wasn't this stupid/shortsighted.
I'm going to advise my dealer today of the necessary change and request them to "?MAKE?" GM issue a Techincal Service Bulletin advising ALL dealers of this "SCREW UP" and provide
PROPER INSTRUCTIONS on -----------
1) Where to disconnect the POWER FEED in the Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment & the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Wiring Provision.
2) Provide proper WIRING HARNESS with SHIELDING and INSTRUCTIONS for SAFELY RE-ROUTING the camper/5th wh feed TO Stud A on the Aux. Battery Relay.
Short of getting this out of GM within the next 5 years i will require them to issue a letter for the same so that GM Legal Department can not later claim UNAUTHERIZED wiring changes.
Will keep all advise on this move.
Loren (75v)
http://www.alaska.net/~nwsar/data/photo/valdez_west.jpg
I sent a letter in part repeated below to a Gm Corp. Sales Planner contact that provide lot of answers during my six month delivey wait.
--After considerable discussion over the Internet last night it is clear that GM should have ran the Power Feed for the Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment & the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Options to the auxiliary battery relay Stud A referred to in the Owners Manual on page 4-81 (terminal 'L' in the schematic you provided).
I would request that GM be asked to ISSUE a TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN when customers order the Auxiliary Battery TP2 Option in conjunction with Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment and/or the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Wiring Options ADVISING all DEALERS & CUSTOMERS how to properly and SAFELY reconfigure the power feed wiring from it's current location in the Primary Battery Circuit to the auxiliary battery relay stud A.--
His Response --
"Thanks for your letter explaining wiring problems with the TP2 Aux. Battery option. I can tell you that the factory option is on stop right now for revisions.
The revisions will most likly result in a service bulletin to modify those already out.
I'll send you another reply if I have any updates. In the mean time I will forward your comments to the brand Quality Team."
75v
75v, I don't know how important it is to you to have the factory do the fix vs. living with it the way it is. Since it's not likely anything will happen soon, I would just go ahead and make the change myself. If you do a good job they aren't going to make a fuss unless something in that system goes bad, and maybe even not then. One out you have is to do the work such that it can be restored to factory. Don't cut off the ring lug on the red wire, just use a bolt to connect it to a second ring lug (or use a breaker like I did). Other than that it's one wire going across the engine bay.
I agree with buzzb that the non-deep-cycle battery won't hold up to RV use for too long. Maybe when GM moves the wire they will start putting DC batteries in the aux position. I guess GM's thinking is that the extra battery really is just an auxiliary for self-jumpering or heavy loads and doesn't have anything to do with RVs.
If the aux. battery is supposed to be a "recharge reservior" for the main battery (i.e. you're supposed to turn the key to the "on" position for several minutes before trying to start the motor), wouldn't it be **better** to have a deep-cycle battery as the "aux. battery" anyway? But an even more fundamental problem with the "recharge reservior" theory is this: how do you know that the "main battery" is good? If it's shorted internally, it will just drain the "aux. battery" as well, and you're no better off than you would have been if you didn't even have the "aux. battery".
If the idea is to be able to run the vehicle even if the "main battery" goes out for any reason, it's best to have the circuitry set up so the two batteries "swap roles"; in other words, the "aux. battery" is used to crank the starter motor and help regulate voltage (an important secondary role for the battery), while the "main battery" just passively re-charges, if it can. In this case, using two automotive batteries makes sense.
I think G.M. may have committed another "d'oh!" with this one.
My official position to Gm and my Dealer is to get Gm to ackknowledge the screw-up and fix the problem, which according to the Sales Planner guy may be in the works.
It's kinda like trying to wag the dog, but when customers start using the 'SAFTY' word the DOG sometimes starts listening better.
BTW - Where is the camper feed wire connection actually at so i can disconnect it from the Primary circuit to extend it over to the relay??
Hey - The help/interest on this has sure been appreciated and it took this group about one nite to know what the solution was.
The dealers only solution would have been 'ya gotta bring it in so we can test it!'
I'll try to take good care of Mike and the Maidrite deal when he gets here. (:-)
75v
What I was asking is where is the camper feed wire connection actually at so i can disconnect it from the Primary circuit to extend it over to the relay?? (Now i would pay for this information (:-))
Does it go to a junction block somewhere?
Wired directly into the master fuse block on the left front fender?
Physically where is the convenient point to disconnect that wire to extend it to the relay without cutting to allow the option of reconnecting it if one found it necessary for GM issue.
I don't want to just pull it out of wiring harness and cut it.
Thks -- 75v
75v, I thought you read my website battery instructions many times???? Maybe you just wanted to make me feel good. Ha. Anyway, the heavy red trailer/camper wire terminates on a stud under the fuse box thing behind the primary battery. If I remember correctly it's the left stud as you will be looking at it. You will need to lift the plastic housing to get at the nut. To remove the housing you must remove the fender brace above it, but I was able to free the wire without doing so. I just lifted it enough to gain access.
While you are in there, R&D Truck Accessories sells a nifty relay for $15 that keeps the low beams on when the high beams are on. It connects inside the same box. It's an easy install, they supply everything.
http://www.truckautoaccessories.com/rd/
I like your nifty relay suggestion for the low beam on with high. If you think you can stand any more of this i'll get one on order -- Thanks
I'll bit the bullet and start prying on the fuse box soon as i get the Hi/Lo relay. Or maybe i'll have Mike show me when he get to the Maidrite!!
75v
I also bought another black box from R&D that unlocks the doors when you put the trans in park. Maybe they offer this as a programming option on the new trucks but they didn't in 2000. I got tired of slamming into the door when I wanted to jump out for something. The box wires under the dash, costs about $30, and works flawlessly.
Tom
If you want to add the aux battery to your truck as I did, I have a list of factory part numbers on my site. You probably know this if you've been reading along.
We found a really nice camping area in Wyoming. Called Natural Bridge (County) Park), just off I-25 between Douglass and Caspar. A nice river runs through the canyon, under a 90' natural bridge. Very clean, neat and FREE!! We will stop on our way back. The only problem is the gates are closed from 8-8. So we have to sleep in that day!
Later,
Mike
I had planned on getting that option for the HD I am just about to order (to pull a travel trailer I plan to buy). Seems I won't miss a lot. Thanks for you and the others distributing so much info that you worked hard to get.
The PY0 polished alum wheels are also on hold for the LS models (with the 1SB option package) - another option I had, and one that means more to me.
BTW - I read your early June posts on the "Introduce Yourself" page. What do you do for a living? I'm curious about the nuclear-related trip you had to make to upstate NY back then. I'm a reactor engineer/core designer on the TX Gulf Coast.
Mike
We have two 6V golf cart batteries on our travel trailer, 220 amp-hour capacity for less than $100. Truck recharges them automatically....
I'd only want the extra underhood battery for one reason, if I had a slide in camper without a battery.... Then, I'd want a deep cycle.
Living in South Texas, I've fried some batteries in the heat. A spare for the truck also seems handy.
I'll look at using the golf cart batteries on the trailer, though. Thanks!
Mike