Thanks for the info. I'm happy getting low 20's in this type of driving. If this had been other suv's that we were considering, I'm sure it would be in the mid to upper teens. I just have to find a job that requires driving at highway speeds every day then I'll be happier with the gas mileage.
It makes a huge difference, to be able to stay in the 55-65mph window. I usually get around 23.5/24 back and forth to work each day, which is about 70% highway driving, but includes a bunch of hills, and is usually driven at over 65mph (but don't tell the wife!). This past weekend's trip down 288/I-95 was a pleasant surprise.
The new consumer report magazines on cars/suvs indicate a new 'overall mileage' ratings for all cars. And the 07 CRV has an overall mileage rating of 21MPG.
Which is just what I was getting based on the mileage readings. I do mostly local traffic, so though I wanted to get more mpg, It is understandable, since driving in the freeway gets me 25 to 30 MPG, but 70+% local driving brings down mileage to 20 to 21MPG.
we just finished 3 weeks of traveling and i noted my mileage carefully (2007 CR-V EX-L AWD). 300 miles on straight freeway driving yields me 23mpg at 80mph but 28mpg at 65-70mph. i'm sure if i kept it to 55mph, i'd hit 30mpg easy. still, overall, with combined city/highway, we're averaging right around 24mpg and i'm very happy with that.
"300 miles on straight freeway driving yields me 23mpg at 80mph but 28mpg at 65-70mph."
Wow, my 2003 EX got 26.5 at 80 MPH, and about 30 at 65 MPH. I'm surprised that the 2007 doesn't do better. However, I should note that my MPG improved at around 1500-3000 miles.
haha, well, let's just say that it wasn't "exactly" 80mph. truth be told, my GPS recorded that i flirted with 97mph (though, completely unintentional) and i was probably over 80 for a good portion. my 70 is probably closer to 74 too
"haha, well, let's just say that it wasn't "exactly" 80mph. truth be told, my GPS recorded that i flirted with 97mph (though, completely unintentional) and i was probably over 80 for a good portion. my 70 is probably closer to 74 too"
OK.... that would explain it. Pretty good MPG for those speeds! Weren't you using Cruise Control?
yeah, i try to whenever i can but the majority of I-5 between sacramento and los angeles is two-lane only and on the days that we were traveling, you either get "stuck" in the slow lane going 55 because of the big rigs or you go with the flow of traffic in the passing lane. even at 80, there were plenty of impatient people behind me :mad: so i'd speed up until i cleared a group of slower vehicles on the right so i could slip back into the "slow" lane and let them pass. something i found out, though...while the CR-V feels perfectly adequate around town, there's certainly not enough ooomph for quick highway passing.
Well I did it. Went solo up to the cabin to ski. Took the roof box off and stuffed the boards inside. It takes so much less to move the car without that roof box. I did three total fillups. I got 31.5, 23 and 29.5. I kept it under 68 and mostly used cruise. I gotta believe that the first tank must have been a pump that put more than the usual amount in as that seems pretty darn high. (I never top off at all.) That second partial tank is all the mountainous driving and use of the AWD on snowy roads.
So for now I'll say that 29.5 is my alltime high. Still think I can get 30, If I slow it to 65.
I think the EPA highway test should be a flat road with cruise set at 68. At least you'd know what was what.
Also I disagree with Snoop Dog about passing on the highway. Maybe he drives an automatic?
A couple of Element owners and at least one CR-V owner have replaced the space holder in the CR-V MT with 6th gear from the Civic Si/Acura TSX and now have 6 spd MT, which yields better highway mileage.
A big resounding yes to this one!! Guys when the car is new you can push the limits of the fuel tank, but do not make this a habit. Overtime sediment/debris will build up & settle in the bottom of the gas tank (sad but enevitable) by running your fuel this low you risk picking up this sediment/debris thru the fuel pump pick-up screen, some of the vary fine sediment/debris will get past this & work it's way into the fuel system. Yes much of it will be caught by fuel filter but this will lead to drivability issues & pre-mature replacement of the filter, even worse (have seen this many times) some of the sediment/debris will get into the fuel injector nozzles & clog them up leading to ultimate failure & serious drivability issues. "MOST IMPORTANTLY" Honda & Honda Care will deny this repair because it is not considered a "mechanical breakdown & failure did not occur from a fault in materials & workmanship" thus causing a very expensive repair that you will be stuck with. IMO fill up 1/8 to 1/4 tank & you can avoid this problem. Enjoy your CRV's
Oh really!?!
Where do you think the fuel pick up is now? Does it magically suck the gas from the top of the tank? How does it deal with lowering fuel levels as you use the fuel?
Don't worry, I will answer that...
The fuel is picked up from the lowest point in the tank anyway. So, following your logic the sediment would get picked up anyway since it is being sucked in from the bottom of the tank.
The more logical explanation is that the fuel pump is cooled by the fuel. If you run out of fuel, the pump will overheat and sieze up.
Gee!! How stupid am I? of course the fuel pump "magically" sucks fuel from the top of the tank!. I glad you answered this because I was "really worried" Your statement: "The fuel is picked up from the lowest point in the tank anyway.(Gee ya think!) So, following your logic the sediment would get picked up anyway since it is being sucked in from the bottom of the tank". So please clarify this for us all, why is there a filtration sock on all fuel pump pick up tubes? Why do all vehicle manufacturers install fuel filters? Is it because "logic" dictates this because of fuel pump failure from lack of fuel?. Or just another way to take consumers money?. Hundreds if not thousands of fuel injectors,fuel filters are replaced everyday from being clogged up with particulate matter & debris... I ask you sir where does this stuff come from?
Are you saying it makes no difference if the fuel pickup is sitting in a concentration of trash?
I think he's saying that the "trash" is there whether the tank is near full or near empty. In any case, I think we've gone far enough with this sideline. Mileage reports, anyone?
Gee!! How stupid am I? of course the fuel pump "magically" sucks fuel from the top of the tank!. I glad you answered this because I was "really worried" Your statement: "The fuel is picked up from the lowest point in the tank anyway.(Gee ya think!) So, following your logic the sediment would get picked up anyway since it is being sucked in from the bottom of the tank". So please clarify this for us all, why is there a filtration sock on all fuel pump pick up tubes? Why do all vehicle manufacturers install fuel filters? Is it because "logic" dictates this because of fuel pump failure from lack of fuel?. Or just another way to take consumers money?. Hundreds if not thousands of fuel injectors,fuel filters are replaced everyday from being clogged up with particulate matter & debris... I ask you sir where does this stuff come from?
What I am saying is that your logic of filling up at 1/4 tank because of the alleged junk in the tank is flawed. The junk is at the bottom of the tank whether you have full tank, or running low on fuel.
The only reason it does not make it into the fuel system is because as you pointed out "there is a filtration sock" (fuel pick up screen).
Major source of fuel injector cloggin is the decomposition of fuel. Gasoline by itself will separate out in volatiles and less volatiles. The less volatiles will eventually gel up and gunk up the injectors. Especially if the vehicle is drven infrequently, or is stored for long periods of time.
Sta-bil and other fuel anti-aging additives allow you to prolong the shelf life of gasoline up to 6 months, maybe a year. Then nothing will help, short of injector cleaning/replacement or carbeurator re-build.
I actually doubt that there are thousands of fuel injectors replaced annualy. Matybe with really old, early 80's fuel injection vehicles. I have an 88 Prelude that is running on original injector. Most common injector failure is the failure of the electric actuator, not the injector itself.
I have been running around with ScanGaugeII hooked up in MPG, Engine load, and intake temp monitoring mode for a while. I noticed that when the intake temps are below 50F the fuel economy suffers. This is running on the same tank of gas, same road, cruise control on.
Seems as if there is some sort of computer logic that throws more fuel into the combustion chamber when intake air is colder than 50F. The intake temps are about 6F higher than bumper mounted temp read out in the gauge cluster (2005 EX)
With fuel filters now buried in the gas tank and no longer user serviceable in most cars (unless you're handy at pulling the tank), I figured that the reason for not running on empty was to keep the pump cool so as to avoid premature burn-out.
The 2007 CR-V owner's manual on page 69 says "Avoid driving with an extremely low fuel level. Running out of fuel could cause the engine to misfire, damaging the catalytic converter." I don't see anything else in there relating to cooling the pump or avoiding trash in the tank.
My wife recorded 27.5 mpg on a 165 mile round trip today. This was with ethanol, so I think we can probably get up around 29 mpg. BTW, our CR-V is a 2005 SE.
Very interesting. $260 is not too bad. I actually have an Accord stick (which is geared a little taller) so I will need to check and see if it will drop my revs much. Since the limit here is 75 and most people cruise at about 80, tall gearing is very welcome.
Very interesting. $260 is not too bad. I actually have an Accord stick (which is geared a little taller) so I will need to check and see if it will drop my revs much. Since the limit here is 75 and most people cruise at about 80, tall gearing is very welcome.
Found the site - thanks.
If your Accord is powered by the 2.4 liter I4, chances are the tranny is the same as the rest of the K24 powered family. And this mod would apply as well.
My last fill up netted me 14.486 MPG. My overall average is 16.747. My MPG tends to be decreasing with each fill-up. I drive about 80% city and 20% highway. I got the car on December 8, 2006, and it has 2300 miles on it.
What the heck is going on????
I've read on here about people complaining that they have to fill up before they reach 300 miles. Geez...I'm lucky if I make it to 200! My last four fill-ups were at 170, 178, 201, and 175 miles.
I will literally jump up and down for joy if I EVER make it to 300 miles before I have to fill up!
My last fill up netted me 14.486 MPG. My overall average is 16.747. My MPG tends to be decreasing with each fill-up. I drive about 80% city and 20% highway. I got the car on December 8, 2006, and it has 2300 miles on it.
What the heck is going on????
I've read on here about people complaining that they have to fill up before they reach 300 miles. Geez...I'm lucky if I make it to 200! My last four fill-ups were at 170, 178, 201, and 175 miles.
I will literally jump up and down for joy if I EVER make it to 300 miles before I have to fill up!
How heavy is your right foot?
Automatics give terrible fuel economy in city driving. Manual is more efficient for City. Imagine if you are on a stationary bike, cruising along, then someone clamps on the brakes, while you still have to pedal... This is how automatic works when you are stopped. The engine is turning against the resistance that brakes provide.
In manual, when you stop, you de-clutch, and put her in neutral, engine is free wheeling, no resistance...
Even though my wife chooses to challenge every stop sign, traffic light and driver in front of her, she still manages to average 21+ mpg commuting to work in her 03, 4wd, auto CR-V. I can better that by 2-3 mpg with intelligent driving.
"What Gives" is that you are getting terrible mileage. There are many post dealing with getting better mileage on these forums, as well as on the Fit and Pilot forums. Start at the front and read all the post and your questions will be addressed many times and in many ways.
"EPA seems to think automatics and Manuals get similar mileage. "
The EPA is also known to not have very accurate tests. Look in Consumer Reports. They have recently started testing manual and automatic versions of some vehicles. The manuals do much better in the city.
FWIW I just filled up my Accord Stick Shift (which should be similiar to the CRV in the city where aerodynamics are not a factor) and got 23.5 mpg in all city driving. This is with almost all trips of 2 miles or less in fairly cool weather (frost many mornings).
What year model is your accord and what engine size and HP is in it? For 07 the Civic auto 4wd is near 400 lbs heavier than an Accord Sedan with manual. That will make a difference.
Are you saying the EPA test are accurate with one type of transmission and not the other? :confuse:
They may not get real world with either, but to say the test are biased toward one type of transmission is stretching a bit.
What makes you think Consumers Report is conducting TOP MILEAGE TEST with the very best drivers?
My wife gets near what you do and I get more than that with the heavier CR-V auto with 4wd. About 50% of her driving is 2-3+/- mile 1 way trips around here with some trips of 12 miles to a 10 day a month job with a zillion traffic lights and heavy traffic.
I can get 30+/- on the road when observing the speed limits. You should get more with a lighter more slippery accord.
These car rags will sometimes admit that they don't exactly drive for great mileage. And sometimes they won't.
The EPA tests definately are biased towards automatics. Look at the real world results. It is easy to make an automatic do well in the tests - just program it to do so. A manual cannot be controlled by the manufacturer.
My Accord is an 07 - I get much better mileage than 23.5, that was just my worst case in all city driving. My average since I bought the car is about 31 mpg, and my best so far is 39. Still not broken in all the way yet (about 2,500 miles)
My point was not put down the mpg of the CRV - just to state that if somebody is getting 16 or so they should be doing better.
CR has the only consistant tests in the industry. They are the best out there. They are real world and repeatable.
"The EPA tests definitely are biased towards automatics. Look at the real world results. It is easy to make an automatic do well in the tests - just program it to do so. A manual cannot be controlled by the manufacturer".
Well if they are programmed to do better in the test, why wouldn't they do better on the road?
You are averaging 31 mpg and have gotten 39 on the road, in an Accord. WOW! You are getting better than Civic and Fit owners are reporting.
How do I do it? Manual transmission, a little extra tire pressure, moderate speeds, conserve momentum - basically control the engine like a hybrid would. There are others in Accords doing as well - look at the Accord mpg board.
Consumer Reports got the automatic Accord at 38 mpg on the highway (that was before they tweaked the engine in 06). 40+ mpg can be done.
Yes my numbers are what some Civic and Fit drivers get, but there are also some that get much better than I do (mid 40's highway)
As far as the tests not mirroring the real world. The tests are not done at read world speeds. The automatics can be optimized to lock at just the right speeds for the test, yet this does not help them at real world highway speeds.
Not trying to hijack the thread. I would really like to see a fwd MT CRV - especially if it was a tad lower for better aerodynamics, then it should get closer to Accord MPG.
Then Edmunds made a mistake, or Honda is hiding that new AWD Civic from us. I would gladly get an AWD Civic instead of CR-V in a heart beat. Especially if the AWD Civic is a hatchback.
Mileage seems to be getting better. 15,000 miles. Last tank was 26.5 65/35% highway/city. With the 23 mpg I've been getting around that must be close to 30 highway.
Also a big factor - ski season is over and the roofbox is off.
2007 CR-V EXL auto. 5000 mi and get 20-21 in town and recently took trip on interstate-450 miles-at 70+ mph and got 27.5 mpg. Brand new mileage was poor but got better after 3k to 4k miles.
How hard is the CRV with auto/manual working at 65 MPH, RPM that is?
David
It is not working hard at all. It is working at about 60% total engine output at 80 mph in 5th (manual). And about 50% output at 65 mph. The % output is based on ScanGaugeII readout.
Just under 1000 miles on the clock. Calculated average for first two tanks were both right at 25mpg - last tank was high 23's (lots of A/C, extra passengers several times, several very short trips).
Current tank shows 27.1 avg on the computer - this tank is 100% city driving, 34 miles round trip to/from work (A/C off majority of the time, weather still nice). I'm light on the gas, but keep up with traffic. I'm trying to see just what this vehicle is capable of in town. I'm in the Dallas area, so hills are not an issue.
So far I've very pleased with the vehicle. Will be taking an extended road trip with it in July, will be interesting to see if I can squeeze 30mpg out of it on the highway @ 70mph.
Filled up yesterday - 9.98 gallons - 253 miles - Avg. came out to 25.3 mpg. Computer was showing 25.8.
All City driving, several short trips Sat and Sun with 3 people in the vehicle. No A/C the majority of the time, most driving with just myself in the vehicle.
I've averaged just over 25mpg on 3 fill ups now, one fill up averaged 23.8 mpg. Majority of the driving has been in town, most of the time with A/C off.
I'll post again when the heat hits and A/C has to be run all the time.
07 EX-L, 2WD. City being suburb of Dallas. Very few hills to deal with, but plenty of stop lights. Most miles are commute to/from work during rush hour.
Comments
I just have to find a job that requires driving at highway speeds every day then I'll be happier with the gas mileage.
Kip
It makes a huge difference, to be able to stay in the 55-65mph window. I usually get around 23.5/24 back and forth to work each day, which is about 70% highway driving, but includes a bunch of hills, and is usually driven at over 65mph (but don't tell the wife!). This past weekend's trip down 288/I-95 was a pleasant surprise.
Which is just what I was getting based on the mileage readings. I do mostly local traffic, so though I wanted to get more mpg, It is understandable, since driving in the freeway gets me 25 to 30 MPG, but 70+% local driving brings down mileage to 20 to 21MPG.
Wow, my 2003 EX got 26.5 at 80 MPH, and about 30 at 65 MPH. I'm surprised that the 2007 doesn't do better. However, I should note that my MPG improved at around 1500-3000 miles.
OK.... that would explain it. Pretty good MPG for those speeds! Weren't you using Cruise Control?
yeah, i try to whenever i can but the majority of I-5 between sacramento and los angeles is two-lane only and on the days that we were traveling, you either get "stuck" in the slow lane going 55 because of the big rigs or you go with the flow of traffic in the passing lane. even at 80, there were plenty of impatient people behind me :mad: so i'd speed up until i cleared a group of slower vehicles on the right so i could slip back into the "slow" lane and let them pass. something i found out, though...while the CR-V feels perfectly adequate around town, there's certainly not enough ooomph for quick highway passing.
So for now I'll say that 29.5 is my alltime high. Still think I can get 30, If I slow it to 65.
I think the EPA highway test should be a flat road with cruise set at 68. At least you'd know what was what.
Also I disagree with Snoop Dog about passing on the highway. Maybe he drives an automatic?
Harv
Oh really!?!
Where do you think the fuel pick up is now? Does it magically suck the gas from the top of the tank? How does it deal with lowering fuel levels as you use the fuel?
Don't worry, I will answer that...
The fuel is picked up from the lowest point in the tank anyway. So, following your logic the sediment would get picked up anyway since it is being sucked in from the bottom of the tank.
The more logical explanation is that the fuel pump is cooled by the fuel. If you run out of fuel, the pump will overheat and sieze up.
Are you saying it makes no difference if the fuel pickup is sitting in a concentration of trash? :confuse:
Kip
I think he's saying that the "trash" is there whether the tank is near full or near empty. In any case, I think we've gone far enough with this sideline. Mileage reports, anyone?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
M
What I am saying is that your logic of filling up at 1/4 tank because of the alleged junk in the tank is flawed. The junk is at the bottom of the tank whether you have full tank, or running low on fuel.
The only reason it does not make it into the fuel system is because as you pointed out "there is a filtration sock" (fuel pick up screen).
Major source of fuel injector cloggin is the decomposition of fuel. Gasoline by itself will separate out in volatiles and less volatiles. The less volatiles will eventually gel up and gunk up the injectors. Especially if the vehicle is drven infrequently, or is stored for long periods of time.
Sta-bil and other fuel anti-aging additives allow you to prolong the shelf life of gasoline up to 6 months, maybe a year. Then nothing will help, short of injector cleaning/replacement or carbeurator re-build.
I actually doubt that there are thousands of fuel injectors replaced annualy. Matybe with really old, early 80's fuel injection vehicles. I have an 88 Prelude that is running on original injector. Most common injector failure is the failure of the electric actuator, not the injector itself.
Seems as if there is some sort of computer logic that throws more fuel into the combustion chamber when intake air is colder than 50F. The intake temps are about 6F higher than bumper mounted temp read out in the gauge cluster (2005 EX)
The 2007 CR-V owner's manual on page 69 says "Avoid driving with an extremely low fuel level. Running out of fuel could cause the engine to misfire, damaging the catalytic converter." I don't see anything else in there relating to cooling the pump or avoiding trash in the tank.
Let's we can take this thread over to Fuel Systems: Maintenance & Repair so we can get back on topic as Tidester requested.
Who's checked their mileage recently?
At least 1 Gen 2 CR-V, and 4 Elements, on Honda SUV site. The CR-V owner who pulled it off says it will cost $260 in parts.
Found the site - thanks.
Found the site - thanks.
If your Accord is powered by the 2.4 liter I4, chances are the tranny is the same as the rest of the K24 powered family. And this mod would apply as well.
What the heck is going on????
I've read on here about people complaining that they have to fill up before they reach 300 miles. Geez...I'm lucky if I make it to 200! My last four fill-ups were at 170, 178, 201, and 175 miles.
I will literally jump up and down for joy if I EVER make it to 300 miles before I have to fill up!
What the heck is going on????
I've read on here about people complaining that they have to fill up before they reach 300 miles. Geez...I'm lucky if I make it to 200! My last four fill-ups were at 170, 178, 201, and 175 miles.
I will literally jump up and down for joy if I EVER make it to 300 miles before I have to fill up!
How heavy is your right foot?
Automatics give terrible fuel economy in city driving. Manual is more efficient for City. Imagine if you are on a stationary bike, cruising along, then someone clamps on the brakes, while you still have to pedal... This is how automatic works when you are stopped. The engine is turning against the resistance that brakes provide.
In manual, when you stop, you de-clutch, and put her in neutral, engine is free wheeling, no resistance...
We could always put the automatics in Neutral as we do the sticks!
Kip
"What Gives" is that you are getting terrible mileage. There are many post dealing with getting better mileage on these forums, as well as on the Fit and Pilot forums. Start at the front and read all the post and your questions will be addressed many times and in many ways.
Kip
The EPA is also known to not have very accurate tests. Look in Consumer Reports. They have recently started testing manual and automatic versions of some vehicles. The manuals do much better in the city.
FWIW I just filled up my Accord Stick Shift (which should be similiar to the CRV in the city where aerodynamics are not a factor) and got 23.5 mpg in all city driving. This is with almost all trips of 2 miles or less in fairly cool weather (frost many mornings).
Are you saying the EPA test are accurate with one type of transmission and not the other? :confuse:
They may not get real world with either, but to say the test are biased toward one type of transmission is stretching a bit.
What makes you think Consumers Report is conducting TOP MILEAGE TEST with the very best drivers?
My wife gets near what you do and I get more than that with the heavier CR-V auto with 4wd. About 50% of her driving is 2-3+/- mile 1 way trips around here with some trips of 12 miles to a 10 day a month job with a zillion traffic lights and heavy traffic.
I can get 30+/- on the road when observing the speed limits. You should get more with a lighter more slippery accord.
These car rags will sometimes admit that they don't exactly drive for great mileage. And sometimes they won't.
Kip
My Accord is an 07 - I get much better mileage than 23.5, that was just my worst case in all city driving. My average since I bought the car is about 31 mpg, and my best so far is 39. Still not broken in all the way yet (about 2,500 miles)
My point was not put down the mpg of the CRV - just to state that if somebody is getting 16 or so they should be doing better.
CR has the only consistant tests in the industry. They are the best out there. They are real world and repeatable.
Well if they are programmed to do better in the test, why wouldn't they do better on the road?
You are averaging 31 mpg and have gotten 39 on the road, in an Accord. WOW! You are getting better than Civic and Fit owners are reporting.
How do you do that?
Kip
Consumer Reports got the automatic Accord at 38 mpg on the highway (that was before they tweaked the engine in 06). 40+ mpg can be done.
Yes my numbers are what some Civic and Fit drivers get, but there are also some that get much better than I do (mid 40's highway)
As far as the tests not mirroring the real world. The tests are not done at read world speeds. The automatics can be optimized to lock at just the right speeds for the test, yet this does not help them at real world highway speeds.
Not trying to hijack the thread.
You must be outside of US. There is no Civic AWD as of yet available for sale in the US.
Then Edmunds made a mistake, or Honda is hiding that new AWD Civic from us. I would gladly get an AWD Civic instead of CR-V in a heart beat. Especially if the AWD Civic is a hatchback.
I was writing about the CR-V. Then when you called me on it, it still didn't register. :sick:
Now I'm back on the right page, I think!
Thanks,
Kip
I was writing about the CR-V. Then when you called me on it, it still didn't register.
Now I'm back on the right page, I think!
Thanks,
Kip
Makes more sense now, lol
Also a big factor - ski season is over and the roofbox is off.
M
David
David
It is not working hard at all. It is working at about 60% total engine output at 80 mph in 5th (manual). And about 50% output at 65 mph. The % output is based on ScanGaugeII readout.
Current tank shows 27.1 avg on the computer - this tank is 100% city driving, 34 miles round trip to/from work (A/C off majority of the time, weather still nice). I'm light on the gas, but keep up with traffic. I'm trying to see just what this vehicle is capable of in town. I'm in the Dallas area, so hills are not an issue.
So far I've very pleased with the vehicle. Will be taking an extended road trip with it in July, will be interesting to see if I can squeeze 30mpg out of it on the highway @ 70mph.
All City driving, several short trips Sat and Sun with 3 people in the vehicle. No A/C the majority of the time, most driving with just myself in the vehicle.
I've averaged just over 25mpg on 3 fill ups now, one fill up averaged 23.8 mpg. Majority of the driving has been in town, most of the time with A/C off.
I'll post again when the heat hits and A/C has to be run all the time.
Is this an 07? If not, What year model and transmission type?
Excellent milesge!
Kip
City being suburb of Dallas.
Very few hills to deal with, but plenty of stop lights.
Most miles are commute to/from work during rush hour.