Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Of course, that may vary by region and dealer.. Currently, it looks like I'd want 1% over invoice maximum.. That should be achievable.. But, of course, you already have a trade offer on your Odyssey, and you'll have to take that into account...
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
so now considering either:
* '00 passat glx wagon with 40k miles at $15,998
* '01 saab 9-5 wagon with 30k miles at $16,998
* '01 volvo v70 wagon with 60k miles at $19,599
based on price/mileage, style, and edmunds reviews, i'm seriously considering the passat glx wagon.
questions for those who have experience with passat's and buying used cars in general:
* any other wagons i should consider based on price, style, gas mileage, and reliability?
* as for the passat wagon, is this a good price? (it's high according to tmv)
* is the passat going to last another 5-6 years at 15k miles/year?
* is the passat reasonably reliable with relatively low maintenance issues/costs? (e.g. how much difference b/w the passat and the hondas/toyotas of the world in terms of reliability?)
* anything i should know about the passat wagon before i buy it?
many thanks for your experience/insights on any/all of the above questions...
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Which one.? ... T5 - XC - base model .................?
Terry.
it seems hard not to consider the pricier but more reliable honda/acura and toyota/lexus axis.
if you were trying to stay under $20k price range for a car that'll last a good 5-6 years (at 15k miles/year), would you....
a) buy an older ('99-'01) lexus/acura with 60-80k miles, rather than b) go with an '02-'04 american or european car with 30-40k miles?
i ask b/c i'm now considering a '99 Lexus RX 300 w/60k miles at $18,998. i'd prefer something in the $15k range. but it seems better to pay the premium upfront and have a chance to avoid some of the maintenance costs later.
many thanks for your thoughts.
Do you have it in cash?
I'm asking 'cuz if you don't, you'll be making payments on a 10-year-old car. This does not sound like a good choice.
Step right up to new Highlander in the $25-27 range.
If you can't afford that, you certainly cannot afford a seven-year-old Lexus for $19. Trust me on this.
-Mathias
The Volvo T5 would make for a good driver at 60k ... but not at $18,900 ....
If the service is from yesterday, the rubber is deep and it has a super history .. then the dealer can't have much more then the $13's, and the $14's with a CPO in it -- and $16,900 would aaaaall the money in the world on the Retail side ........ $18,900.? maybe in Neverland ...
Terry
Volvos are VERY high on that list!
And Honda isn't alone at building cars that don't cause many problems.
-Jason
I researched the Mazda 626 - according to some reliability ratings the Mazda 626 problems are mainly attributed to the 4c engine. The V6 requires one major repair at around $600. That isn't a lot of money considering a nicely equiped 2002 V6 model sales for around 10K less than a similarly equiped 2005 Honda Accord.
What is everyone's opinion about the Mazda 626 from a money/safety/reliability perspective? What other 2-4 year old used cars should I be looking at in the midsized sedan category? (Not Honda or Toyota though - I want high reliability and high depreciation. If I bought a Honda or Toyota I would just buy a new one - which I don't want to do because I want to save money.)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
although, for sweetie, i could slightly ammend that to Legacy sedan.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
A used base Outback can be OK when it's 2-3 years old, but you gotta be lucky, quick on the draw, and not live in the Northeast or, God forbid, CO.
More's the pity; I kinda like 'em...
-Mathias
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I don't know what pricerange sweetie is looking for, but I just checked yahoo classifieds within 75 miles of my area (NJ) and the '02 Legacys seem to run right around $12-$13k.
For comparison, I looked for '02 Accords..... well, its tough to sift through over 1000 hits, but the first couple of pages I skimmed were in the $18-$19K range.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
You would think that a good deal could be had on a car just off of lease.
BetterSafe
And I find your reasoning to be persuasive.
I snooped around a little to see how that most ubiquitous of off-lease cars is doing, the "2002 Civic LX auto with 36k miles".
Anywhere from $9,500 to maybe $11 is what my "source" tells me.
So you can buy one for $11 to $12 and consider it a "good deal".
Still too much for a car that's four years old to a dealer and can be had new for -- I'm guessing here -- $15-16.
Not with my money...
-Mathias
wie waere es denn mit einem '02 Mercury Villager? Nicht die Qualitaet eines 02 Ody, aber gut zum halben Preis. Odys kosten idiotisches Geld. Wenn Du ganz sicher bist, genau drei Jahre in Texas zu bleiben, ueberleg' Dir, ob Du nicht leasen willst und dadurch schon bei der Steuer $1k sparen...?
How about an 02 Villager? Not quite the quality of an Ody, but a little over 1/2 the price. Odys bring stupid money. If you're really sure you're gonna be in Tx for 3 years, think about leasing. Just the tax savings would be $1k or so...
[Note how the German is 25% longer than the English? That's where the Dollar/Euro exchange rate comes from!]
Gruss,
-Mathias
Four hours later, three dealers later, all three dealers were within $200-300, period. He passed on it.
Yesterday, I see the guy again. Bought a one year old Impala LS with 25k ... for $17k! Ouch! I wish he would have called me as I had an '03 Impala LS with 50k he could have had for under $7k. That is a vehicle where there might be some bargains.
Sheesh, don't call him, call me... LOL .. that's a really good deal if the car's all there. Now if you had your email adress in your profile...
This just goes to show people are all hung up about MSRP and invoice and "how much the dealer is making". Instead of thinking about value and "car for the dollar".
I think I'll go into a mode where we have two cars year-round, then buy something in March and sell it in October... that shouldn't be too much hassle, and a Taurus or Impala, if bought "right", can probably be sold for the same amount it was bought.
And no, I don't think I'll try that with an Odyssey...
-Mathias
It happens every second of everyday, people pay for what "they" think is a good buy - it's self affirmation .....
I ran into this with a guy I kinda play golf with, he's been talking convertibles for a month and he calls me every other day -- "it's gotta be an import, it's gotta be classy, it's gotta have low miles, it's gotta be different, it's gotta be hot, I want to be different yatty yatty yatty ..."
So I take in this "baby doll" 03 Audi A4 Cabriolet with 17k, it's the right color, it sat in a garage and was driven 6 months of the year with a 100k warranty - I got it dirty when I detailed it .. he goes nut's when he hears about it - I'll take $30, but he says: "bring it to the course" (but he only wants to pay $25,0) "but bring it to the course anyway, we'll work it out" .....
He shows up last Sunday in a 02 Firebird Trans-Am with 55,000 miles, top is burnt off, tires are weak and the air don't blow cold .. in the meantime, the Audi is got as crowd going on, he first remark was "I saved $5,000 and only paid $25,000 ..." .... "Bud, it's a $15,000 driver - maybe" ..l.o.l.... ...... the little Cabriolet sold itself before the turn ..... I guess he showed me.
Terry
... well, as soon as the son got behind Mama, it warn't no sedan no more, and they got this:
2001 Blazer LS 4x4 4dr 75k miles, pewter in color (aren't 3/4 of them that color?) with a short CPO warranty.... for (drum roll) $10,600. I'm "hoping" that's with the tax...
I figure they overpaid no more than $2 and no less than $1 and it's not like he can't afford it... but what bugs me is I blew off work for a couple hours to help him look at sedans, made up for it in the evening, got a bunch of auction data a couple days beforehand so we could look at prices.... and then he goes and blows out ten grand without even calling and saying, buddy, what should I pay for this car...
Alright, he's a nice guy, and I'm over it now, but it makes you wonder what's going on between the ears some time.
The cars I can handle, I'm not so sure about the customers.
-Mathias
Where can you get an Impala LS for 7K ?
That's a good point about buying a car every 3 years or so.... but that's what I'm saying, if help is a phone call away, make the phone call. I don't get my information from buying a car every week, I get it from here and a couple other places.
Meaning, I ask for information from people who know and who apparently give it gladly.
-Mathias
Me.? I see it everyday, so nothing surprises me ..l.o.l... It's called the rule of 21's ... call 21 people until someone agree's with you, this way you know your right .......................
Terry.
I mean, the lines in the sand have been drawn for a LONG time. Someone who wants a used Odyssey is not going to all of a sudden decide a Town and Country is better just because they can get it for $100 cheaper than last month. OK, sure, I'm certain SOME folks are making that decision, but I think the Honda camp or Toyota camp or any other manufacturer has their incredibly large loyal fan base and discounts aren't going to change that SO drastically.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I ask this, because I was in the new car market for an Avalon, but I feel the pull toward a better value, i.e., lower cost, alternative. The new cars have great rebates and pricing. It just is not clear how much the manufacturer rebates on new cars affect the prices of cars coming off of lease.
My opinion on this is that it would take a very specific buyer to make the switch at this point. First of all, the buyer would need to not have any brand-loyalty to the alternatives, be willing to overlook any benefits they may get from the other brand (i'm not saying there are any, just that, if there are, they need to overlook them), AND they would have to not realize what I have stated above about the actual buy price not being very different than before.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
BetterSafe (than Sorry)
Alot of Chrysler/Dodge cars used Mitsubishi powertrains. Haven't checked in quite a while, though.
I'm sure there are a slew of others out there still.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
note - I don't work for a Mazda dealership.
These cars are bargains. But people should be aware that if they intend to drive these cars past the 100,000 mile mark they're gambling.
I would put my faith in a 125,000 mile Honda Accord all day, every day over a 60,000 mile Ford Taurus.
Toyota Corolla and Geo/Chevrolet Prizm are well-known twins in everything except the stereo and some sheetmetal (and perhaps the battery?) Ditto for Geo/Chevy Metro and Suzuki Swift, though I have seen the Swifts mostly outside the U.S.
Mazda truck - Ford Ranger.
Mazda engine (at least the V6) in Ford Contour/Mitsubishi Mystique.
Yamaha engine in Ford Taurus SHO.
There are a lot of them out there with 150-200k miles.
Once you get past 100k on ANY car, its reliability is directly proportional to the amount of maintenance that has been done on the vehicle. I have seen many abused Hondas that have been limping along at 100k because their bozo owners failed to do the required oil changes and maintenance.
I would take the 60k Taurus over the Accord as I would probably be able to get the vehicle for $1-2k less.
The 2.5L and 3.0L V6 in some Mazdas (like my MPV) are european Ford engines, I believe, and only tweaked by Mazda. So far, the 2.5L in my MPV has been very reliable, if a little underpowered.
1. 2002 Infiniti I35 w/28k miles - $20,990
2. 2003 Lincoln LS w/14k miles - $18,970
3. 2001 Lexus GS300 w/29k miles - $21,988
4. 2004 Nissan Maxima w/27k miles - $22,990
5. 2002 Nissan Maxima w/20k miles - $16,990
6. 2002 Acura 3.2 CL-S w/30k miles - $23,995
7. 2002 Lexus IS300 w/32k miles - $19,988
8. 2001 Lexus GS430 w/49k miles - $25,988 (more than I want to spend, but very nice to drive - is this car worth the extra money?)
9. 2002 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro AWD w/45k miles - $21,988
Are there other cars I should consider looking at in this price range that are comparable to the above cars? Any of the above cars I should absolutely stay away from? I've already test driven a 2004 Accord, 2004 Camry, 2005 Altima, 2004 Acura TSX, 2003 Chevy Impala, and a 2004 Mazda 6(?). All were very nice cars, but didn't do enough for me to want to buy them.
Thanks for any advice!
1. 2002 Infiniti I35 w/28k miles - $20,990
Don't know anything about them
2. 2003 Lincoln LS w/14k miles - $18,970
Not bad, but not so hot in the reliability department. Supposed to be nice drivers; Terry's driven a bunch of them.
3. 2001 Lexus GS300 w/29k miles - $21,988
This is something special; don't see too many of them, and it's got an inline six and RWD; what I like about it it's Lexus bullet-proof, and the miles are low for the year, which is good 'cuz you'll do the opposite. Price seems a touch high, but Lexi hold their value. Downside is lousy fuel economy in this old engine; low 20s on the freeway... I'd check this one out, though, it won a C&D comparo with some impressive cars in it.
4. 2004 Nissan Maxima w/27k miles - $22,990
5. 2002 Nissan Maxima w/20k miles - $16,990
Nice cars, good reliability, try it out. The 02 might be a good fit with your driving pattern, but this only works if you're not in the rust belt... in any case, a new maxima would only be low-to-mid twenties (I think) so there needs to be some dealing.
If you weren't too happy with the CamCord duo, you may not think the Max is luxo enough.. but it IS different enough to merit a test drive.
6. 2002 Acura 3.2 CL-S w/30k miles - $23,995
Small. Should be fun to drive.
7. 2002 Lexus IS300 w/32k miles - $19,988
Same engine as the above GS, very little room, doesn't have the ride/handling compromise down as well as BMW. Nice car, though... try it, you'll be surprised how small it is...
8. 2001 Lexus GS430 w/49k miles - $25,988 (more than I want to spend, but very nice to drive - is this car worth the extra money?)
For a daily commuter, that's a whopper of an engine.. it'll have LS430 maintenance bills. Not repair, maintenance :-)
9. 2002 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro AWD w/45k miles - $21,988
Way too much money for a four-year-old Audi that'll be out of warranty soon. Nice car, though, for the right price and IF you have a competent mechanic. And don't mind the occasional $1245 for a this-and-that electronic module.
The body and chassis on those things will last 20 years, easy.
Have fun!
-Mathias
Personally, if price really isn't an issue (haven't looked how competitive all the prices you list are), but the gs430 is one of my favorite rides out there. super reliable and just a nice quality ride. May not be the best on gas, but.... the maintenance is where it may get you. Lexus' are nice, but the maintenance bills to keep them nice can break you, specially if you use the famous Lexus service department (know that from experience). If you know a nice, reliable, low cost mechanic, may be an option.
The GS300 is almost identical on the inside, just won't have the juice of the max or acura. Depends on how much you enjoy the performance factor. You won't get much from this one, but its definately comfortable.
I'm not a fan of the IS300, I think Lexus missed the mark on this one, not nearly enough power to do what they wanted to do with the car. It should be reliable, though. They are sharp looking cars.
Audi and the Lincoln may not fit your reliability "desire".... Audi's can tend to get expensive outside of their warranty period. They are nice drivers, though.
Let us know!
...Mathias, really? Yeah, now that I think about it, when I lived in Michigan, it was predominately the Big 3 driving around the area.
Down here "in the South", these things are EVERYWHERE. Every time I turn around I see GS300's... I know b/c I really like the GS 400/430, so they always catch my eye....
What with the snow and all.
Nissans are much scarcer, too, but that may be the area I'm in (Lansing).
-Mathias
lesseee here:
1. 2002 Infiniti I35 w/28k miles - $20,990
eh. honestly, i'd go for the maxima listed below instead.
2. 2003 Lincoln LS w/14k miles - $18,970
No V8? No sale.
3. 2001 Lexus GS300 w/29k miles - $21,988
never tried one. by all accounts, its nice, but so is a Camry.
4. 2004 Nissan Maxima w/27k miles - $22,990
5. 2002 Nissan Maxima w/20k miles - $16,990
I would DEFINITELY choose the '02 for 6K savings and less miles. A no brainer.
6. 2002 Acura 3.2 CL-S w/30k miles - $23,995
This defeats that whole "practical" aspect you are looking for.
7. 2002 Lexus IS300 w/32k miles - $19,988
Too small for the $$
8. 2001 Lexus GS430 w/49k miles - $25,988
I think this would be nice, but do you really want to spend all that dough on a car with almost 50K miles??
9. 2002 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro AWD w/45k miles - $21,988
I'm getting too used to hearing complaints about reliablity.
One that I just mentioned in another discussion that you might want to look into is the Benz E320. They are remarkably inexpensive on the used side. A few years old with 30K'ish miles and it falls right into this pricegroup you've assembled here. AND, based on those I've test driven in this group, I think the Benz is a bit more sporty, IMHO, and, since you are coming from a Del Sol, I think TOO plush of a ride might get on your nerves (I know it does in my case).
Out of what you have, I'd go for that Max, IF its loaded up all luxo-like. I also am a fan of the Lincoln, but I have a feeling that's a V6 price, and that just ain't gonna cut it. The 4.6 V8 is a very reliable engine and the inside of the Lincoln is real nice.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2) Lincoln LS.. V-8? Sport pack? If not both of those options, it is too much money.. Not that reliable.. but, nice cars..
3) GS300... Certified? RWD is great, since you live in FL..
4) Not worth the $6K delta over the '02..
5) '02 Maxima.. best buy of the lot..
6) Acura CL-S.. Nice car, if it fits your needs.. way overpriced at $24K..
7) IS300... Again.. nice, if CPO.. as noted above.. fairly small.. Price seems right.
8) GS430.. very nice.. not worth the extra for commuting, though..
9) Audi... stay far, far away... Not exactly low miles, either.. overpriced..
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator