Limited slip is good for ROADS. It is terrible for offroading.
Granted I would prefer a locker but the fact remains that the majority of people do not know how to drive with the locker engaged.That is an accident waiting to happen.The LSD works great off road.It is a heck of alot better then an open differential.
vince,you are qrong again.The supercharger works great in a 4x4.Granted running in Moab or through the woods,the SC has no advantage,but over in the dunes or across the desert it works great.
"The LSD works great off road.It is a heck of alot better then an open differential."
Not really. LSD is not designed for offroad use at all. LSD is designed to work when all wheels are FLAT on the ground. Wheels off the ground cause traction confusion issues with the LSD, actually making it WORSE for offroading.
Not really. LSD is not designed for offroad use at all. LSD is designed to work when all wheels are FLAT on the ground. Wheels off the ground cause traction confusion issues with the LSD, actually making it WORSE for offroading.
You are wrong.The locker works best of course.The LSD is FAR superior to an open differential off road.3 wheel drive on a 4x4 sure beats 2 wheeel drive on a 4x4.The only other way around this,is the traction control that Land Rover uses.It uses the brakes on the wheel that is spinning so the other wheel can get power. Put a front and a back wheel in the air on an open diff,and I will with my LSD.I would go and come back and you would still be there.
LSD is not useless offroad. Once again spoog shows his true colors.. LSD words great on rocky terrain, hills, gravel inclines, and even in some soft dirt areas along with helping with towing, and hauling. I know, I use one! You never have to engage a LSD, you don't have to be in low 4wd to use your LSD. I will concede though a locker is definitly the axle to have for HEAVY DUTY offroading. As I keep saying over and over, most owners will not use their lockers to its full potential or funtion. Lockers are severely limited in their use and functionality in everyday use. Toyota has one heck of a marketing group, its worked on some of those who don't know any better. OK! I give, a supercharger would be great for a flat desert race..
By the way I believe someone quoted a cost in a previous chat room, it costs about $250 to rebuild the LSD on a Ford Ranger yourself. Now, lets see how much that locker costs to rebuild... :-))
O.K., I'll go ahead and admit it, my Ford Ranger is a poor quality piece of crap. After months of bashing other makes and bragging about the torque on my Ranger, I give up. My Ranger is going to be traded in for a new Nissan Frontier. I can't wait to finally drive something with some good engineering and quality. Those endless hours waiting at the Ford service lounge were really getting to me.
vince,you just can't stand that there are Frontier owners,Toyota owners and Dodge owners who like their trucks despite what you say.Buyer's remorse? Not a chance. I see you decided to "run away" to this forum.Questions too hard in the other? Remember the movie? C........... Run.LOL
Just returned from a one-week driving trip from Denver to Yellowstone and back. During the trip, probably as a result of visiting this forum too much, I paid attention to the number and brands of trucks I saw.
For every Toyota, there must have been 40-80 Fords, Chevys and Dodges out there.
Don't forget, Wyoming is "Truck Country", where folks buy what they consider to be the best truck to fit their needs.
Only after we got close to Denver on the return trip did I start to notice more imported trucks. Made me wonder if reliability could be related to the type of usage a truck sees. In other words, if a truck is only used as a commute vehicle (like I used my Tacomas for) I'm sure they are more "reliable" than any truck used on a ranch/farm, or for actually hauling stuff, like trucks are built to do. Any thoughts?
Nissan owners: Sorry, but I only saw maybe two or three Nissans during the entire trip.
rickc5, Despite what you might think using a vehicle as a daily comuter is much harder on a vehicles componets than just tooling around hauling stuff. Besides every truck that I've ever seen on a ranch or farm that was designated the 'farm' truck always had something wrong with it. The reason for the misconception that 'daily commuters' don't seem like they are used as hard is because they usually get taken care of. Unlike a farm truck which may never get washed or ever get OEM parts used on it. I guess it just depends on what you consider reliability, buy short hauls even heavy items don't work the vehicle like stop and go traffic.
I grew up on a farm. I've seen firsthand what farmers (my dad, my uncle, my grandfather, and a whole lot more in the community) put their trucks through. It just absolutely doesn't compare to a couple of hours of stop and go traffic a day.
Not even remotely close.
And, these were their "commuter" vehicles too.
A couple years back my grandpa retired and traded in his truck, something like a '78 F250. It had around 100K miles on it and took the amount of abuse it would take 500K miles to put on a "commuter" car or truck. It had minimal problems relating only to wear and tear items, and that old 460 still ran good. He sure got his money's worth out of it and a whole lot more.
Up around these parts, in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, I see alot of different types of trucks on the farms and in the forests.
It is forested, havily rocky country, very rugged. Lots of granite rock pine, ect. Also alot of logging roads.
It is VERY tough country on a vehicle. From what I have seen, most bear hunters, fishermen ect that drive on the rugged backroads use Toyota pickups and Jeeps.
I had a 91 Toyota pickup with 200,000 miles. Alot of those miles came from logging road trips, hauling stuff, and offroad miles in Colorado, Arizone, NEw MExico, and the northwoods.
There is no question about it that if you want a vehicle that wil stand up to abuse in the "rough country", get a Toyota pickup.
Toyota also makes the Landcruiser, which is the vehicle you always see in the nature documentaries. The Crocodile Hunter has a nice on of those down under.
IN Africa, the repair shops are 600 miles apart...........
Also don't forget that many country folk still have that whole "buy amercian" syndrome. They will just buy whatever truck their dad had and so on and so on.
"Don't forget, Wyoming is "Truck Country", where folks buy what they consider to be the best truck to fit their needs."
Much of Wyoming is semi-desert. I have seen much tougher truck country, especially in Colorado, North West Montana, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Although I will say this:
Many of these locals probably need a full size bed, which was only available on U.S. full size pickups. If it came down to me choosing a full size pickup, I don't know what I would get. Im not too fond of any of them , really. Not even the Tundra.
Well I think that the reason for the American trucks are choosen for farms is not because they can take the abuse better than foriegn vehicles I think more than anything it has to do with there size. One tons, bigger beds, crew cabs and the sort. It's really funny, this isn't particularlly directed at you, but domestic truck owners really brag when a truck gets a 100K on it and they have no problems with it. I admit I was happy when my S-10 made it to 70K on it with only 1 transmission and 4 pittman arms. Bt don't you guys understand that the Foreign trucks make it consistantly to 150k - 200k with the original window cranks still working(something that every Ranger owner I've know can't say). So let's face it that the reason that the Domestics make it on the Farm is because of there size.
I think the available power as well as the availability and price of repairs are also a big factor. When you're far from the city you want an enginge that you're familiar with.
You've got a point. There is no viable option for a foreign for a full-size truck.
But, you need to realize that these are not easy highway miles put on over 5 or so years like you see out commuting to work.
These are trucks that take incredible amounts of abuse over a very long time. It's unusual for one of these trucks to reach 100K miles in less than 10 years.
"It is not the Land Cruiser in those nature documentaries,it is a Land Rover."
Those are Toyota Landcruisers as well. They look just like the Range Rovers and Land Rovers.
Toyota used to make a Land Cruiser that looked just like a Jeep, but bigger.
There are several different styles. Check out that goofball "Crocodile Hunter" show. He's got a REAL nice Toyota Landcruiser with about 14 inches of clearance and a snorkel. What a sweet setup.
Probably the best one I saw was the Toyota Landcruisers on an ARCTIC expedition. They had oversized tires on these things for the cracks in the ice.
Supposedly the Landcruisers were the only vehicles they could use in such awful conditions.
Toyota use to use a gold plated starter on most of their rigs.
The United Nations also uses Toyota trucks and Landcruisers for remote duty.
"These are trucks that take incredible amounts of abuse over a very long time. It's unusual for one of these trucks to reach 100K miles in less than 10 years"
Any halfway decently built vehicle will make it to 100,000 miles now matter how much it was abused.
Cthompson, Now your talking highway miles. I wasn't or didn't mean to imply that, I'm talking every day driving, weekend activity...traffic stopping and going. I geuss I should have qualified where the commuting takes place. Here in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties there's a good mixture of highway and city driving. I got my truck on March 6th this year and today I have 16,123 miles on it. Some miles pulling a 4000lb boat, hauling both a washer and dryer, freezer(and whatever else I've hauled for poeple w/o a p/u). All of this in stop and go Florida humidity and heat traffic. I might add since I've had my truck every single time I've started it the A/C is on. I'm not as hard on this truck as it might sound but the Florida enviroment will certainly put a vehicle through it's paces....I know, I know everybody else on this page has a WINTER, all I can say to you guys is....I'm sorry. I'll be catching sailfish in January
The Toyota Landcruiser is a nice vehicle,but you have to first get rid of the engine.They become really nice with a small block in it.
I do not get the Crocodile Hunter,but I do watch alot of nature shows with my kids and the majority of vehicles that you see especially in Africa on these shows are Land Rovers or Range Rovers.It is a rare sight to see anything else.
Probably the best one I saw was the Toyota Landcruisers on an ARCTIC expedition. They had oversized tires on these things for the cracks in the ice.
Supposedly the Landcruisers were the only vehicles they could use in such awful conditions.
I do not doubt thst there were Toyotas in that excursion.I seriously doubt the claim that they were the best vehicle.It may have been the best for what they could afford,but definetly not the best for the conditions.
I too have seen many of the expedition shows. Form my experience most are Landcruisers of some sort or the foreign HiLux pickup. I personally have not seen too many Land or Range Rovers, But that does not mean much consideriing I dont watch TV consistantly. i did see a show about a company in Iceland that specializes in building Toyotas for glacial expeditions. (Landcruiser, 4-Runner, Tundra, and Hi-Lux). They would put if I remember correctly, 35, 39, or 44 inch tires. Incredible looking vehicles.
I was lucky enough to go on a safari in Kenya a couple of years ago, and our vehicle was an older landcruiser. This thing truly was 'tough as nails. we went through some wicked terrain, and that baby never missed a beat. reliable vehicles definitely are a must when you're that far in the middle of nowhere. the last thing you want in the middle of a herd of elephants is for your rig to break down. you would have loved it spoog, diesel engine, snorkel, etc.
BTW spoog, why don't you like full-sized pickups? is it the size, or the styles, etc? the reason I ask is because I'm trying to decide between getting a compact or a full-size, and I can't make up my mind.
"I do not get the Crocodile Hunter,but I do watch alot of nature shows with my kids and the majority of vehicles that you see especially in Africa on these shows are Land Rovers or Range Rovers.It is a rare sight to see anything else. "
Actualy, the Landcruiser is more common. Im telling you, you need to look at the grille and the labels on the grill. The Landcruisers and the Ranger Rovers are very similar looking.
"I do not doubt thst there were Toyotas in that excursion.I seriously doubt the claim that they were the best vehicle.It may have been the best for what they could afford,but definetly not the best for the conditions."
I don't think you understand. The Landcruiser is the premier people carrying vehicle for these types of duties. IT isn't a matter of having more money. Your not going to find a more rugged, tough ,people carrying, effecient vehicle, period. Unless of course your talking about flying planes, boats, or busses.
Hummers? Not reliable enough, awful gas mileage. These puppies require mechanics to be with them on excursions.
"The Toyota Landcruiser is a nice vehicle,but you have to first get rid of the engine.They become really nice with a small block in it."
Why would you put a GM built small block into a vehicle which already hasan engine designed for much harsher conditons, and is much more bulletproof?
uh-uh. NOt a wise move. I could see if you had an old Landcruiser and the engine died, then it would be a good idea. But these engies in these vehicles are the stuff legends are made out of.
"I was lucky enough to go on a safari in Kenya a couple of years ago, and our vehicle was an older landcruiser. This thing truly was 'tough as nails."
What a cool trip. I would like to visit Africa. Lucky devil.
"we went through some wicked terrain, and that baby never missed a beat. reliable vehicles definitely are a must when you're that far in the middle of nowhere. the last thing you want in the middle of a herd of elephants is for your rig to break down. you would have loved it spoog, diesel engine, snorkel, etc. "
Sounds like a nice setup. I wish they made those for the U.S. market.
"BTW spoog, why don't you like full-sized pickups? is it the size, or the styles, etc? "
I don't know. I just feel they could be better. IF I had to choose, I would probably get the Chevy full size. The only thing I don't like about them is the interior dash.
The Tundra is a fine truck, but doesn't have enough options yet, and I don't like the styling of it.
"the reason I ask is because I'm trying to decide between getting a compact or a full-size, and I can't make up my mind. "
Test Drive, Test Drive, Test Drive. Take em out on the highway and let em rip. Thrash em around corners, see how you like it.
I guess my problem with them is im not too fond of the styling, or the way they handle. But I do dig that Silverado with the leather interior and the big V8. The question is, just how often would I utilize the large bed and the towing potential of that 8?
Very few new trucks catch my eye these days. The Land Rover Discovery does, the Jeep Wrangler does, and the Silverdao does. Thats about it.
Of course, I would love to have a Land Rover Defender 90, but they don't make them anymore, and a used one from 95 is 24,000!!!!! It's basically a bigger, wider, roomier version of the Jeep Wrangler.
What I would really kill for is for Toyota to come out with a revamped version of their old LAnd CRuiser Fj40 softop. This thing looked like the current Jeep Wranger, except it was bigger, roomier, could haul more cargo, looked better, and of course was more reliable.
"It may have been the best for what they could afford,but definetly not the best for the conditions."
No offense , but you dn't bring a Ford or a Dodge into a situation like that. The landcruiser and pickups are built from a much, much different cloth than most other vehicles. Cold weather doesnt cause as many problems for Toyotas as it does for other vehicles. Neither does leaving the lights or the interior light on all night. It's just stuff you don't worry about.
I think if you ever investigated on how the Landcruisers were built, and just how many high quality parts are used, you would understand.
Mgvlincia saw the same show. These vehicles are built for these glacial expedition simply because they are the best vehicle for those conditions, at whatever price.
Actualy, the Landcruiser is more common. Im telling you, you need to look at the grille and the labels on the grill. The Landcruisers and the Ranger Rovers are very similar looking.
I can tell visually the difference,but it is hard to miss the name on the vehicle.I can read the name.
Your not going to find a more rugged, tough ,people carrying, effecient vehicle, period. Unless of course your talking about flying planes, boats, or busses.
Hummers? Not reliable enough, awful gas mileage. These puppies require mechanics to be with them on excursions.
I am not sure where you get your reliablility data from on the Hummer but I know that it is a cery reliable vehicle.It does have poor mileage figures in comparison,but if you want to traverse rugged terrain the Hummer will go anywhere you want.
The reason I mentioned the small block is because it is a popular swap out.The old engine is underpowered for what most people around here want to do with it.
Don't forget alot of the FJ-40's when they built them, were used in the Japanese military as far back as WWII along with Suzuki and Nissan. I think Dodge is the only American retail automaker that can claim they have made a sellable type of vehicle(not including the GM rights to market the Hummer). Hmmmm, maybe this is the underlying explanation of why the Japanese products were so far ahead of the domestic products in the 70's and 80's. Spoog, IMO the Wrangler or CJ's couldn't touch a FJ-40 especially in stock form. The new Wranglers are junk they don't have any room in them everything is plastic...I know two people('98 and a '99) that have had theirs claimed under the FL Lemon Law. Chrysler ended up buying them back. Both trucks were in the shop literally more than they were out. One was at the service center 98 days! the other one 74 days. Niether one of these people knows each other one person lives here in Clearwater and the other one lives in Tallahassee. They did have similar problems transmission, electrical, steering and stalling. I don't think todays Wrangler is what it used to be or even what the YJ was...the CJ years('86 and older) were certainly their best years. But between the two(CJ and FJ-40) the FJ-40 wins hands down.
I think if you ever investigated on how the Landcruisers were built, and just how many high quality parts are used, you would understand.
Mgvlincia saw the same show. These vehicles are built for these glacial expedition simply because they are the best vehicle for those conditions, at whatever price.
Contrary to what you may believe,I am not knocking the Landcruiser.It is a fine vehicle.I know that Toyota uses quality parts,I also know that you will pay for those parts too.The part that bothers me is the all encompassing statements that was made about it being the best,etc.The show you talked about may have been correct for what they were doing.That does not make it the best for the terrain or conditions.
And obviously there couldn't have been any Toyota sponsorhip involved this expedition, right? Like say Toyo provides the vehicle and some cash to fund the expedition in exchange for showing the vehicle as many times as possible in a remote location. There are a zillion and one reasons outdoor adventure companies use a particular type of vehicle - and it usually comes down to marketing and sponsorship, not because "this is the only vehicle that could handle the terrain." Please. And Toyo alos has a contract with the UN - the same way Ford and Checy have have contracts with many police departments to supply their police car.
We are not talking about one particular expedition shows bu many. I find it hard to belive that some natives in Africa sit around and say "Boy it would be fun to venture into the Sahara, lets try to get Toyota to supply us with a 15 year old beat up Landcruiser so we can do it." And those guys in Iceland started a company to build glaciar capable vehicles to sell, really nothing to do with sponsership.
Much as it pains me to do so, I must admit that spoog's assertion that the Land Cruiser is the "chosen vehicle" for those folks living in third world countries is right on the nose. For those SPECIFIC conditions, it really is the BEST vehicle.
I met a safari company owner a couple of years ago and he was saving for a new Land Cruiser: only $90,000 in Africa. Yet he still considered it the only vehicle to buy. BTW- that's NOT the Cruiser sold here in the US.
However, my whole point in starting the thread of how many non-Toyotas I saw on my recent vacation was to point out that even though Toyota Tacomas MIGHT be great off-roaders (according to some magazines), that's sure NOT the reason most folks buy a truck in THIS country. Lots of the trucks I saw were pulling trailers and boats, but none of those were Toyotas, even Tundras. Interesting how the thread wound up in Africa, of all places.
If off-roading capabilities were the ONLY criteria people used in determining what truck best suited their needs, Toyota would be in fat city and would sell millions more Tacomas than they do. The fact remains that lots of folks are interested in many other selection criteria, including (but not limited to): cost, space, comfort, noise levels, towing capacity, available options, etc., etc.
Here in the US, most truck buyers spend very little time off-roading. Even when I went off-roading almost every weekend (a few years ago), the total amount of time I spent actually off-road as compared to on-road was less than 10%! Off-road mileage was probably around 1%.
My conclusion from my observations is that people buy trucks that meet their daily NEEDS and not a vehicle whose (off-road) capabilities they may NEVER use (or even require). This may be a big reason that Ford, Chevy and Dodge continue to sell more trucks than Toyota and also why the Ranger is the best selling compact truck. They don't give a POOP about skid plates!
Perhaps Toyota has decided to sell only to a niche market (off-roaders) and not bother trying to compete head-to-head with the Big 3. I'm not saying they do, but its a possibility to consider.
Toyota is trying to go after the "big three" with the latest Land Cruiser.V-8 power,over weight styling,all kind of gagets,and way over priced.Its not made for real off road trips.Its made for profits.
First off, mahi, the first Cruiser prototype was in 1950(wasn't that after WWII?) The FJ40 wasn't introduced until 1960. Spoog, if you're talking about the L/C FJ40 with the 4L gas motor that was in the states please be advised this was nearly an exact copy of Chevrolets 6 cylinder of the same era. A good motor but hardly stuff that legends are made of. I realize that Steve Irwin AKA the crocidile hunter may have changed vehicles but the last truck I saw him driving was a Nissan Diesel with a big cube box.
Have you guys heard of the "Turtle Expedition" it was a diesel Ford F-250/350(?) with a camper shell that so far has made 2 around the world trips while transversing some pretty tough terrain.
Spoog, I have an "off road philosophy" question for you; What's better for serious off roading: a solid or IFS setup?
\\ I find it hard to belive that some natives in Africa sit around and say "Boy it would be fun to venture into the Sahara, lets try to get Toyota to supply us with a 15 year old beat up Landcruiser so we can do it\\
\\And obviously there couldn't have been any Toyota sponsorhip involved this expedition, right? \\
Who is going to sponsor a 20 year old Landcruiser with no big stickers saying TOYOTA on the side to poor biologists studying cheetahs?
\\Like say Toyo provides the vehicle and some cash to fund the expedition in exchange for showing the vehicle as many times as possible in a remote location.\\
Wrong. This is just ridiculous.
\\There are a zillion and one reasons outdoor adventure companies\\
Your talking about outdoor adventure companies, and I am talking about wildlife documentary makers and biologists out working the field.
\\use a particular type of vehicle - and it usually comes down to marketing and sponsorship, not because "this is the only vehicle that could handle the terrain." Please. \\
Deal with it man. The Landcruiser IS the best vehicle for those conditions. Any moneky pulled from the jungle could figure that out.
\\And Toyo alos has a contract with the UN - the same way Ford and Checy have have contracts with many police departments to supply their police car\\
And the UN vehicles travel hundreds of miles from repair shops and enter hostile territory traversing freakish heat and extreme cold.
Gooba, I work for the State Deparment in Washington D.C. Toyo has many contracts with National dignitaries and heads of state all over the world. Ford and Chevy have contracts with numerous local and federal police departments. Sorry.
is becoming spoog's Toyota worship column. The land Cruiser is a good off-road vehicle, but it is not a pickup and really has no fuction in this forum. The vast majority of drivers do not have this weird desire to get stuck in the mud and rocks. They want a vehicle that serves to take the family out to dinner, make a Wal-Mart run and still be able to haul odds and ends that would not fit in a trunk or SUV. If you want to talk rugged, I could probably take anyone on in my old M151A1. Unfortuneately, the military did not allow them to be sold to the public. The only time I saw one stuck was when this idiot swore he could take one anywhere. He went ten feet past the point that I said no way and buried it above the wheels. A ten mile hike to a phone got a duece and half to the rescue and stuck. Another hike got a ride back and the next day they had to use a dozer to extract them. Lets get back to the topic this is supposed to be.
steve234 How many do you want? There are people here who have them and drive them all over.It is not one of my favorite vehicles.The A1 was more susceptable to rolling over.The A2 had the changes that made it a little better.I did like the looks of the A1 better.The flat fender looked better then the composite light in the front of the fender.
cygnusx1
I am sure you are correct,but that still does not provide what I asked for.
Comments
offroading.
Granted I would prefer a locker but the fact remains that the majority of people do not know how to drive with the locker engaged.That is an accident waiting to happen.The LSD works great off road.It is a heck of alot better then an open differential.
vince,you are qrong again.The supercharger works great in a 4x4.Granted running in Moab or through the woods,the SC has no advantage,but over in the dunes or across the desert it works great.
road.It is a heck of alot better then an open
differential."
Not really. LSD is not designed for offroad use at all. LSD is designed to work when all wheels are FLAT on the ground. Wheels off the ground cause traction confusion issues with the LSD, actually making it WORSE for offroading.
at all. LSD is designed to work when all wheels
are FLAT on the ground. Wheels off the ground cause
traction confusion issues with the LSD, actually
making it WORSE for offroading.
You are wrong.The locker works best of course.The LSD is FAR superior to an open differential off road.3 wheel drive on a 4x4 sure beats 2 wheeel drive on a 4x4.The only other way around this,is the traction control that Land Rover uses.It uses the brakes on the wheel that is spinning so the other wheel can get power.
Put a front and a back wheel in the air on an open diff,and I will with my LSD.I would go and come back and you would still be there.
I will concede though a locker is definitly the axle to have for HEAVY DUTY offroading. As I keep saying over and over, most owners will not use their lockers to its full potential or funtion.
Lockers are severely limited in their use and functionality in everyday use. Toyota has one heck of a marketing group, its worked on some of those who don't know any better.
OK! I give, a supercharger would be great for a flat desert race..
Still has the highway-biased f150 suspension............
I see you decided to "run away" to this forum.Questions too hard in the other?
Remember the movie? C........... Run.LOL
For every Toyota, there must have been 40-80 Fords, Chevys and Dodges out there.
Don't forget, Wyoming is "Truck Country", where folks buy what they consider to be the best truck to fit their needs.
Only after we got close to Denver on the return trip did I start to notice more imported trucks. Made me wonder if reliability could be related to the type of usage a truck sees. In other words, if a truck is only used as a commute vehicle (like I used my Tacomas for) I'm sure they are more "reliable" than any truck used on a ranch/farm, or for actually hauling stuff, like trucks are built to do. Any thoughts?
Nissan owners: Sorry, but I only saw maybe two or three Nissans during the entire trip.
Despite what you might think using a vehicle as a daily comuter is much harder on a vehicles componets than just tooling around hauling stuff. Besides every truck that I've ever seen on a ranch or farm that was designated the 'farm' truck always had something wrong with it. The reason for the misconception that 'daily commuters' don't seem like they are used as hard is because they usually get taken care of. Unlike a farm truck which may never get washed or ever get OEM parts used on it. I guess it just depends on what you consider reliability, buy short hauls even heavy items don't work the vehicle like stop and go traffic.
I grew up on a farm. I've seen firsthand what farmers (my dad, my uncle, my grandfather, and a whole lot more in the community) put their trucks through. It just absolutely doesn't compare to a couple of hours of stop and go traffic a day.
Not even remotely close.
And, these were their "commuter" vehicles too.
A couple years back my grandpa retired and traded in his truck, something like a '78 F250. It had around 100K miles on it and took the amount of abuse it would take 500K miles to put on a "commuter" car or truck. It had minimal problems relating only to wear and tear items, and that old 460 still ran good. He sure got his money's worth out of it and a whole lot more.
It is forested, havily rocky country, very rugged. Lots of granite rock pine, ect. Also alot of logging roads.
It is VERY tough country on a vehicle. From what I have seen, most bear hunters, fishermen ect that drive on the rugged backroads use Toyota pickups and Jeeps.
I had a 91 Toyota pickup with 200,000 miles. Alot of those miles came from logging road trips, hauling stuff, and offroad miles in Colorado, Arizone, NEw MExico, and the northwoods.
There is no question about it that if you want a vehicle that wil stand up to abuse in the "rough country", get a Toyota pickup.
Toyota also makes the Landcruiser, which is the vehicle you always see in the nature documentaries. The Crocodile Hunter has a nice on of those down under.
IN Africa, the repair shops are 600 miles apart...........
Also don't forget that many country folk still have that whole "buy amercian" syndrome. They will just buy whatever truck their dad had and so on and so on.
folks buy what they consider to be the best truck
to fit their needs."
Much of Wyoming is semi-desert. I have seen much tougher truck country, especially in Colorado, North West Montana, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Although I will say this:
Many of these locals probably need a full size bed, which was only available on U.S. full size pickups. If it came down to me choosing a full size pickup, I don't know what I would get. Im not too fond of any of them , really. Not even the Tundra.
But, you need to realize that these are not easy highway miles put on over 5 or so years like you see out commuting to work.
These are trucks that take incredible amounts of abuse over a very long time. It's unusual for one of these trucks to reach 100K miles in less than 10 years.
documentaries,it is a Land Rover."
Those are Toyota Landcruisers as well. They look just like the Range Rovers and Land Rovers.
Toyota used to make a Land Cruiser that looked just like a Jeep, but bigger.
There are several different styles. Check out that goofball "Crocodile Hunter" show. He's got a REAL nice Toyota Landcruiser with about 14 inches of clearance and a snorkel. What a sweet setup.
Probably the best one I saw was the Toyota Landcruisers on an ARCTIC expedition. They had oversized tires on these things for the cracks in the ice.
Supposedly the Landcruisers were the only vehicles they could use in such awful conditions.
Toyota use to use a gold plated starter on most of their rigs.
The United Nations also uses Toyota trucks and Landcruisers for remote duty.
abuse over a very long time. It's unusual for one
of these trucks to reach 100K miles in less than 10
years"
Any halfway decently built vehicle will make it to 100,000 miles now matter how much it was abused.
Now your talking highway miles. I wasn't or didn't mean to imply that, I'm talking every day driving, weekend activity...traffic stopping and going. I geuss I should have qualified where the commuting takes place. Here in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties there's a good mixture of highway and city driving. I got my truck on March 6th this year and today I have 16,123 miles on it. Some miles pulling a 4000lb boat, hauling both a washer and dryer, freezer(and whatever else I've hauled for poeple w/o a p/u). All of this in stop and go Florida humidity and heat traffic. I might add since I've had my truck every single time I've started it the A/C is on. I'm not as hard on this truck as it might sound but the Florida enviroment will certainly put a vehicle through it's paces....I know, I know everybody else on this page has a WINTER, all I can say to you guys is....I'm sorry. I'll be catching sailfish in January
I do not get the Crocodile Hunter,but I do watch alot of nature shows with my kids and the majority of vehicles that you see especially in Africa on these shows are Land Rovers or Range Rovers.It is a rare sight to see anything else.
Probably the best one I saw was the Toyota
Landcruisers on an ARCTIC expedition. They had
oversized tires on these things for the cracks in
the ice.
Supposedly the Landcruisers were the only vehicles
they could use in such awful conditions.
I do not doubt thst there were Toyotas in that excursion.I seriously doubt the claim that they were the best vehicle.It may have been the best for what they could afford,but definetly not the best for the conditions.
BTW spoog, why don't you like full-sized pickups? is it the size, or the styles, etc? the reason I ask is because I'm trying to decide between getting a compact or a full-size, and I can't make up my mind.
alot of nature shows with my kids and the majority
of vehicles that you see especially in Africa on
these shows are Land Rovers or Range Rovers.It is a
rare sight to see anything else. "
Actualy, the Landcruiser is more common. Im telling you, you need to look at the grille and the labels on the grill. The Landcruisers and the Ranger Rovers are very similar looking.
"I do not doubt thst there were Toyotas in that
excursion.I seriously doubt the claim that they
were the best vehicle.It may have been the best for
what they could afford,but definetly not the best
for the conditions."
I don't think you understand. The Landcruiser is the premier people carrying vehicle for these types of duties. IT isn't a matter of having more money. Your not going to find a more rugged, tough ,people carrying, effecient vehicle, period. Unless of course your talking about flying planes, boats, or busses.
Hummers? Not reliable enough, awful gas mileage. These puppies require mechanics to be with them on excursions.
have to first get rid of the engine.They become
really nice with a small block in it."
Why would you put a GM built small block into a vehicle which already hasan engine designed for much harsher conditons, and is much more bulletproof?
uh-uh. NOt a wise move. I could see if you had an old Landcruiser and the engine died, then it would be a good idea. But these engies in these vehicles are the stuff legends are made out of.
couple of years ago, and our vehicle was an older
landcruiser. This thing truly was 'tough as nails."
What a cool trip. I would like to visit Africa. Lucky devil.
"we went through some wicked terrain, and that
baby never missed a beat. reliable vehicles
definitely are a must when you're that far in the
middle of nowhere. the last thing you want in the
middle of a herd of elephants is for your rig to
break down. you would have loved it spoog, diesel
engine, snorkel, etc. "
Sounds like a nice setup. I wish they made those for the U.S. market.
"BTW spoog, why don't you like full-sized pickups?
is it the size, or the styles, etc? "
I don't know. I just feel they could be better. IF I had to choose, I would probably get the Chevy full size. The only thing I don't like about them is the interior dash.
The Tundra is a fine truck, but doesn't have enough options yet, and I don't like the styling of it.
"the reason I
ask is because I'm trying to decide between getting
a compact or a full-size, and I can't make up my
mind. "
Test Drive, Test Drive, Test Drive. Take em out on the highway and let em rip. Thrash em around corners, see how you like it.
I guess my problem with them is im not too fond of the styling, or the way they handle. But I do dig that Silverado with the leather interior and the big V8. The question is, just how often would I utilize the large bed and the towing potential of that 8?
Very few new trucks catch my eye these days. The Land Rover Discovery does, the Jeep Wrangler does, and the Silverdao does. Thats about it.
Of course, I would love to have a Land Rover Defender 90, but they don't make them anymore, and a used one from 95 is 24,000!!!!! It's basically a bigger, wider, roomier version of the Jeep Wrangler.
What I would really kill for is for Toyota to come out with a revamped version of their old LAnd CRuiser Fj40 softop. This thing looked like the current Jeep Wranger, except it was bigger, roomier, could haul more cargo, looked better, and of course was more reliable.
what they could afford,but definetly not the best
for the conditions."
No offense , but you dn't bring a Ford or a Dodge into a situation like that. The landcruiser and pickups are built from a much, much different cloth than most other vehicles. Cold weather doesnt cause as many problems for Toyotas as it does for other vehicles. Neither does leaving the lights or the interior light on all night. It's just stuff you don't worry about.
I think if you ever investigated on how the Landcruisers were built, and just how many high quality parts are used, you would understand.
Mgvlincia saw the same show. These vehicles are built for these glacial expedition simply because they are the best vehicle for those conditions, at whatever price.
telling you, you need to look at the grille and the
labels on the grill. The Landcruisers and the
Ranger Rovers are very similar looking.
I can tell visually the difference,but it is hard to miss the name on the vehicle.I can read the name.
Your not going to find a more rugged, tough
,people carrying, effecient vehicle, period.
Unless of course your talking about flying planes,
boats, or busses.
Hummers? Not reliable enough, awful gas mileage.
These puppies require mechanics to be with them on
excursions.
I am not sure where you get your reliablility data from on the Hummer but I know that it is a cery reliable vehicle.It does have poor mileage figures in comparison,but if you want to traverse rugged terrain the Hummer will go anywhere you want.
The reason I mentioned the small block is because it is a popular swap out.The old engine is underpowered for what most people around here want to do with it.
Spoog, IMO the Wrangler or CJ's couldn't touch a FJ-40 especially in stock form. The new Wranglers are junk they don't have any room in them everything is plastic...I know two people('98 and a '99) that have had theirs claimed under the FL Lemon Law. Chrysler ended up buying them back. Both trucks were in the shop literally more than they were out. One was at the service center 98 days! the other one 74 days. Niether one of these people knows each other one person lives here in Clearwater and the other one lives in Tallahassee. They did have similar problems transmission, electrical, steering and stalling. I don't think todays Wrangler is what it used to be or even what the YJ was...the CJ years('86 and older) were certainly their best years. But between the two(CJ and FJ-40) the FJ-40 wins hands down.
Landcruisers were built, and just how many high
quality parts are used, you would understand.
Mgvlincia saw the same show. These vehicles are
built for these glacial expedition simply because
they are the best vehicle for those conditions, at
whatever price.
Contrary to what you may believe,I am not knocking the Landcruiser.It is a fine vehicle.I know that Toyota uses quality parts,I also know that you will pay for those parts too.The part that bothers me is the all encompassing statements that was made about it being the best,etc.The show you talked about may have been correct for what they were doing.That does not make it the best for the terrain or conditions.
I suggest you check out this Edmunds full-size sport utility comparison between the LAnd Cruiser, Ford Expedition, Navigator and Suburban.
The Expedition was voted "most likely to break", and Edmunds commented " we wish Ford would build trucks with trucks uses in mind".
Why is it so hard to accept that a pruduct is widely considered the best? Do we live in such a mediocre world that this is not possible?
I can accept that Ford make the best police vehicles
I met a safari company owner a couple of years ago and he was saving for a new Land Cruiser: only $90,000 in Africa. Yet he still considered it the only vehicle to buy. BTW- that's NOT the Cruiser sold here in the US.
However, my whole point in starting the thread of how many non-Toyotas I saw on my recent vacation was to point out that even though Toyota Tacomas MIGHT be great off-roaders (according to some magazines), that's sure NOT the reason most folks buy a truck in THIS country. Lots of the trucks I saw were pulling trailers and boats, but none of those were Toyotas, even Tundras. Interesting how the thread wound up in Africa, of all places.
If off-roading capabilities were the ONLY criteria people used in determining what truck best suited their needs, Toyota would be in fat city and would sell millions more Tacomas than they do. The fact remains that lots of folks are interested in many other selection criteria, including (but not limited to): cost, space, comfort, noise levels, towing capacity, available options, etc., etc.
Here in the US, most truck buyers spend very little time off-roading. Even when I went off-roading almost every weekend (a few years ago), the total amount of time I spent actually off-road as compared to on-road was less than 10%! Off-road mileage was probably around 1%.
My conclusion from my observations is that people buy trucks that meet their daily NEEDS and not a vehicle whose (off-road) capabilities they may NEVER use (or even require). This may be a big reason that Ford, Chevy and Dodge continue to sell more trucks than Toyota and also why the Ranger is the best selling compact truck. They don't give a POOP about skid plates!
Perhaps Toyota has decided to sell only to a niche market (off-roaders) and not bother trying to compete head-to-head with the Big 3. I'm not saying they do, but its a possibility to consider.
Have you guys heard of the "Turtle Expedition" it was a diesel Ford F-250/350(?) with a camper shell that so far has made 2 around the world trips while transversing some pretty tough terrain.
Spoog, I have an "off road philosophy" question for you; What's better for serious off roading: a solid or IFS setup?
natives in Africa sit around and say "Boy it would
be fun to venture into the Sahara, lets try to get
Toyota to supply us with a 15 year old beat up
Landcruiser so we can do it\\
lol!!!!!!!
sponsorhip involved this expedition, right? \\
Who is going to sponsor a 20 year old Landcruiser with no big stickers saying TOYOTA on the side to poor biologists studying cheetahs?
\\Like
say Toyo provides the vehicle and some cash to fund
the expedition in exchange for showing the vehicle
as many times as possible in a remote location.\\
Wrong. This is just ridiculous.
\\There are a zillion and one reasons outdoor
adventure companies\\
Your talking about outdoor adventure companies, and I am talking about wildlife documentary makers and biologists out working the field.
\\use a particular type of
vehicle - and it usually comes down to marketing
and sponsorship, not because "this is the only
vehicle that could handle the terrain." Please. \\
Deal with it man. The Landcruiser IS the best vehicle for those conditions. Any moneky pulled from the jungle could figure that out.
\\And
Toyo alos has a contract with the UN - the same
way Ford and Checy have have contracts with many
police departments to supply their police car\\
And the UN vehicles travel hundreds of miles from repair shops and enter hostile territory traversing freakish heat and extreme cold.
way Ford and Checy have have contracts with many
police departments to supply their police car\\
Deal with it man. The Landcruiser IS the best
vehicle for those conditions. Any moneky pulled
from the jungle could figure that out.
Could you provide the links to support these statements?If not,then they are only opinion and heresay.
If you want to talk rugged, I could probably take anyone on in my old M151A1. Unfortuneately, the military did not allow them to be sold to the public. The only time I saw one stuck was when this idiot swore he could take one anywhere. He went ten feet past the point that I said no way and buried it above the wheels. A ten mile hike to a phone got a duece and half to the rescue and stuck. Another hike got a ride back and the next day they had to use a dozer to extract them.
Lets get back to the topic this is supposed to be.
How many do you want? There are people here who have them and drive them all over.It is not one of my favorite vehicles.The A1 was more susceptable to rolling over.The A2 had the changes that made it a little better.I did like the looks of the A1 better.The flat fender looked better then the composite light in the front of the fender.
cygnusx1
I am sure you are correct,but that still does not provide what I asked for.