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Pontiac GTO v. Subaru STi
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Comments
Power Lap times:
Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1
Vauxhall Monaro VXR - 1.30.16
The Vauxhall does supposedly have a few suspension tweaks that the GTO does not have (nobody is sure exactly what though), but it does show what the Monaro platform is capable of.
I personally think the new Charger is UGLY, my opinion. 300C to me is the better looker, but even that exhibits the brick on wheels styling.
Hood scoops are functionl on the 2005, they vent the engine compartment.
For 2008 GM is supposed to go more retro on an all new GTO, time will tell.
i dont feel the new Charger should be compared to models such as the Mustang and GTO . It just seems to me that this car is in a different category. Regardless of what chrysler says this car isnt a true competitor of the Mustang/GTO because "most" people who are looking to buy a Mustang GT or Mustang Cobra or GTO aren't going to even consider a four door car and the majority of V6 Mustang buyers seem to be people looking for a sporty looking car which again wouldnt lend itself to a four door model such as the charger.
FrEa|<
That guy has owned an M and then another M so he probably knows a thing or two about cars.
-juice
FrEa|<
Many of the people on ls1gto web are in their 20's and 30's too.
FrEa|<
""Please stop hammering on what a "looker" it is. It's got a big motor and it's fast and it handles better than any 1970's GM car. As for looks , even though subjective(Their are Astek fan clubs out there) it's very vanilla.""
Please stop hammering on how the GTO is supposedly Vanilla-bland-dull-ugly-FAILURE, etc. Yes looks are subjective. I think New Mustang is UGLY, un-original, RETRO-BRICK on wheels with CHEAP interior from 1980's, my opinion. New GTO is more then just a big motor and handling, it has very good build quality and a very GOOD interior/seats. As for the 300C, looks like a BRICK on wheels to me, ever drive one? Very nasty blind spots, hard to see out of it from those short windows. My opinion.
Whats next, is Ford going to RETRO the 1987 GT Fox body, five yrs from now? LOL! I'm glad POntiac did NOT retro GTO.
WRX is very good performer & for the price too, Too stiff of a ride for me. The GTO is more refined car. I wanted a Vette, but I needed the backseat. I never liked F bodies because of their STIFF rides and Cheap interiors and so-so build quality. So Finally when the Monaro, oops GTO came out, it was a no brainer to me.
I would take WRX over Civic SI as well.
Check out their utes, i.e. the 2 door pickups with beds and that V8.
-juice
I like that 2 door V8 car with pickup bed. Kind of like an El Camino version of the GTO.
PS have never owned or drove a atuo tranny over 100 miles(can say this proudly).....it is too boring rush hour or not doesnt matter
FrEa|<
The WRX has an auto tranny option. Why not on the Sti? More then 50% of sales of Vette & GTO are automatic I got an auto GTO and i love it no work shifting gears all the time , the auto transmission is pretty advanced, it is FASTER then the stick GTO, 0-60 and 1/4 mile. Where I live in NY/NJ area, I wouldn't want manual. Too much traffic.
The stock auto can actually handle 300hp, in modified cars it manages that much power reliably.
But the 6 speed manual fits the image of the halo car better. Plus you can get an auto WRX if you're not after peak performance first and foremost. The '06 base WRX gets the 2.5T with less lag and more torque than the old 2.0T engine.
-juice
Ironic that GM makes the 6spd manual an OPTION on the Vette-GTO, years ago the Auto was optional, go figure?
Actually, I think it's called 'knowing your market'. They understand that most potential consumers of these vehicles (for better or worse) desire an automatic tranny over a manual tranny.
Also, if you had determined prior to your purchase that in GM tests, the manual tranny was a 1/10 quicker than the automatic, would you have purchased the manual? I'm guessing that your purchase of a GTO with an automatic had nothing to do with a 1/10 second advantage and everything to do with convenience. Just my .02......
Actually it had to do with my wife NOT being able to drive a manual shift. She doesn't want to learn either. Yes conveniance too. Lot of traffic around here.
Very valid reasons for buying an automatic equipped car (I went through the same thing with my wife, except she was at least willing to learn since she understood that I would always have a manual in MY car and that occasionally she would need to drive it).
I was just pointing out that if one naturally leans towards a manual tranny, a 1/10 second advantage in 0-60 shouldn't be the determining factor for choosing an automatic instead. Particularly when there is a few hundred dollar price penalty and (perhaps) a gas mileage penalty for chosing the automatic as well. Yet virtually every time you discuss the manual tranny vs. the auto tranny in the GTO, you bring up the 1/10 second advantage of the automatic as though THAT were the determining factor.
Personally, I've heard more than a few reports that the poor shift linkage in the manual tranny GTO is more than enough reason to chose the automatic instead.
True, I see your point. But we are not buying GTO or Mustang GT for their gas mileage, even though it's better then many SUV-truck on road !! Yeah you do pay the $1300 gas guzzler on auto GTO, but you pay $695 for the stick on GTO as an option! Auto is only really costing $605 more. Again anyone buying these cars can afford either tranny/gas mileage. BTW, isn't the auto on Mustang GT an $995 option?
The manual shift linkage was not as bad as some people made it out to be. I drove M6 GTO and it was ok. There are some fixes for it.
Agree 100% (or the STi either to keep us on topic ).
All I'm saying is that few people would choose the automatic simply for 1/10 second advantage when it cost $600 more and probably slurps a bit more gas (paying extra for even worse mileage? Yeah, but check out that extra 1/10 second I can lop off my 0-60 time!!! Woo hoo!)
I've no idea what the automatic option runs on the Mustang. Don't care. Since I always intend to drive stick, they could be priced exactly the same and it would make no diff to me.
"The manual shift linkage was not as bad as some people made it out to be."
Since I've never driven the GTO, I'll take your word for it. That being said, I think a LOT of the 'issues' people bring up about ALL of these cars (GTO, STi, or even Mustang) are blown way out of proportion by who ever is trying to score 'points' in the discussion. Just like some folks gripe about a slightly balking shifter or lack of trunk space (guilty ) or whatever on the GTO, others harp about the ride or boy racer styling on the STi or the lack of IRS or dash design on the Mustang. In my opinion, they are ALL good cars; each with their own strengths (and weaknesses) which all apeal to different types of buyers.
I agree, it is a strange rivalry. Most likely either buyer, STI or GTO is NOT cross-shopping either vehicles. One is a AWD 4 door sedan, and the other one a 2 door RWD sports coupe. They are both fast, performance orientated no doubt.
-juice
"The Waring MixMaster 2500 Blender/Food processor proved superior in
handling most types of foods. Its convenient quart-sized hopper could
easily accomodate large pieces of brocolli and cauliflower without jamming.
The Pontiac GTO had no hopper assembly at all, and while a considerable
amount of produce could be loaded into the vehicle through an open driver's
side window, the GTO proved unable to process the food regardless of how
fast the engine was running."
This seems especially harsh:
"The GTO's much-vaunted independent rear suspension was no match for the
MixMaster's ability to jullienne potatoes that were paper thin and
perfectly cut. In our "cole slaw" torture test, the MixMaster's variable
speeds and interchangeable blades made quick work of ten pounds of cabbage,
while the 400 hp GTO just sat there rumbling loudly and using up gas."
And this really strikes close to home:
"Despite an MSRP nearly three thousand times higher than the Waring
MixMaster, Pontiac's GTO proved to be a disappointing food processor in
virtually every metric, a fact that many GTO owners will no doubt find
troubling."
Next Week: Ebonite VX Blastmaster Bowling Ball vs 2005 Pontiac GTO
-juice
I'll tell you one thing, don't knock the GTO 'till you try it. I honestly hated them, because I was another one of the mass public sheep who didn't like it because of its look. People hear GTO and expect larger than life. If it was called a G8 or Monaro, you wouldn't hear half the complaints. Well, anyway, I drove it and it instantly won itself as a strong contender. Mind you I was in the market for a Mustang GT, G35 coupe, Rx8 or STi with a GTO not even on the radar screen.
Each car has its pro's and cons, but in the end, I got similar performance of the STi, with more comfort, more luxury, much cheaper insurance, better gas mileage, all at a significant lower price tag then every other car I wanted. And looks wise, at 23, most my close friends ranging from 19-26 put the GTO ahead of the STi, but both cars at the bottom of the list, lol. Bland can be interpreted as sharp and clean. The girls chose the GTO hands down but I dunno if thats a compliment, lol.
And those of you claiming the interior is good in the STi... cmon... the rug is blue turf that matches the crap in my boat! lol. Go sit in a GTO then re-evaluate your opinion.
Costs not a factor, then:
Fun, fast, racer like driving. STi > GTO
Smooth cruising, low to top end instant power, cross country. GTO > STi
I hear ya on the age thing, but a good number of the people in the goat club around here are around my age. And suprisingly just about all my friends said go for the GTO over the STi too. (I spent a good week mulling it over and asking for 100's of opinions, )
Meanwhile, I figured out how to make the gas costs a little more palatable. I got a GM Mastercard that I use as a gas card. I'm getting 5% of the cost of every fill-up back as money towards my next GTO, if there ever is one.
FrEa|<
Really, I'm not sure why they put these two cars together in the first place. Motor Trend did a comparison between the GTO and a Mercedes CLK AMG. The gist of the piece was that for the price of the Benz you could buy two GTOs, and while the GTO cost half as much as the Benz, it delivered 90% of the goods.
The GTO is a tough car to pin down. It has no direct domestic competition. All it has in common with the tiny Subaru is that it's fast. The Subie gets it in standard Japanese style by thrashing its little heart out and relying on superb engineering to keep from exploding. The Goat gets the job done with displacement and brute force in the drivetrain, and refinement everywhere else. I was doing 100 on the interstate a couple of days ago, in 6th at 2,000 rpm, smooth and as quiet as a Lexus. Felt pretty good.
I had an SVX, one of my all time favorite cars... Now that car lined up nicely with the GTO. Heavy car, big displacement, refined ride and interior. Like the GTO, most buyers didn't "get" the SVX, with its funky greenhouse and windows within windows, but I had a 300ZX back then as well and the Subie was the better of the two cars. Subaru needs to bring that thing back.
Hope I didn't piss that guy off by saying his mom was in middle school when the old Goat was king.
FrEa|<
I think the "crappiness" of the STi interior is blown way out of proportion, sure it doesn't have a roomy and luxurious interior but it was never meant to have one. The seats are bolstered and wrapped in escaine/alacantara in order to grip the driver while still using 3-point seatbelts. It's not the most comfortable car to ride in but it's far from being one of the worst. For the most part, people will be far too exhilirated by the driving experience to notice that the seats aren't made of leather or the suspension is a little stiff. Under normal driving conditions (aside from the little instances of boost) the STi remains a very docile and drivable car.
I sincerely doubt there is a GTO owner on the planet that 'couldn't have' a STi if they had wanted a STi.
"..know cars before you talk down on them..."
First, the GTO is produced in Australia, not in Canada. Second, the GTO doesn't have a 'cady' type of suspension (in fact, the GTO (Monaro) was developed with Australian roads in mind which require a stiffer suspension than your 'typical' GM car). So, you may want to learn a bit more about the GTO before you talk down on them.
has an article about the Sport Tuner craze peaking.
I posted this in another forum and a guy who
works for an aftermarket company says that sales of
Tuner parts peaked about 12 months ago.
Exhausts, body mods, wheels, etc.
The show at SEMA had an equal amount of domestic musclecars and they feel that the 2 will coexist for a while but the trend is toward RWD performance vehicles.
It was bound to happen but this is one of the first articles I have seen on the Sport Tuner craze declining.