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Acura TL vs Lexus IS 350
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Comments
Actually, the FWD Acura TSX has won that award - two years in a row...
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/transcripts/lexusischat092905.html
See all past chat transcripts: http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/transcripts/index.html
Horsepucky - the Japanese national character makes them incapable of lowering their reliability standards the necessary minimum two orders of magnitude . . .)
Bob Carter: It's not our goal to compare ourselves with any other manufacturer. I am confident that we have a fantastic vehicle coming to market. Most luxury manufacturers address this segment through vehicles that offer a compromise on either performance or luxury. Lexus has taken a different approach. We are addressing this segment by offering two completely different models. The IS models offer incredible performance with all the luxury you would expect in a Lexus. Our ES 330 emphasizes the comfort and refined feel which Lexus is known for, and comes in a sophisticated and stylish exterior.
coopnet asks: How does Lexus feel the IS250/IS350 compares to the 325i/330i?
Bob Carter: The IS is a much better car!!
Spoken like a true Sales Guy!
I have a good deal being offered on an Acura TL with a manual transmission. While I believe the lexus is better in just about all categories, I feel like the TL is more fun to drive with its smooth shifting manual.
Has anyone drive both? I would love to hear your opinions on which you prefer.
Kind Regards,
Akshay
I have never heard anyone praise Lexus's manual for some reasons. Could that be IS250 is the first manual that Lexus ever offered?
This has been resolved in the 06 model.
Thank you
Very true. But I wonder if they really try to be? (And, I've said it before, when it comes to luxury, Lexus is head and shoulder above all the other Japanese brands. Sportiness and styling -- different story)
Do you really think it's appropriate to compare a 35K TL to a 56K LS 430? I think most of us agree the TL is an outstanding value for the money. Lexus makes a great vehicle but you pay a lot more to get one comparable to the TL. And a search of the Lexus forums shows people find plenty of things to complain about. As for styling the LS is pretty bland, IMHO.
That's Lexus' mission statement, is it not? "Relentless Pursuit of Blandness" The Stepford Wives of the automotive world. :P
The IS250 has a very attractive exterior and interior, and its Lexus badge porbably means that it will be very reliable. Lexus service is top-notch. The IS250 is a good car, and it is the only IS that comes with a manual. The manual shifting on the IS250 is excellent, by the way, which came as a surprise to me because it is my understanding thatthe took it from the Toyota Tundra.
To me, the pleasure of a manual transmission is more important than the ability to accelerate really hard out of a turn, at which a FWD car is probably inferior to a RWD car, all other things being equal.
The TL is not simply a rebadged Accord. I have driven the 06 MT 6 cylinder Accord. The TL is much stiffer and has much better road feel. The TL is a rebadged Accord in the same way that the Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.
If FWD kills the appeal of a car for you, stay away from the TL. If you are open to FWD, test drive the TL. You will be pleased. If you don't mind the relatively small cabin of the IS, don't really need to put full-size people in the rear seat, and don't mind the engine sound (some people like that) then the IS250 may be for you.
essentially what I said is vindicated by the above. the analogy offered makes no sense in relation to what I said. the new IS is an IS everywhere unlike the previous generation. the current TL is made in the same factory as the current accord and is essentially the same vehicle differing only in the suspension and body panels. everything else is exactly the same inside and out. it was HIGHLY annoying to see accord EX's when I owned my TL and knowing that they were essentially the same. at this rate acura will never be in lexus' class.
Both are very reliable....resale value on both are also good....
But the IS350 is now WAY above the TL....bottom line....
In all aspects....comfort....luxury....performance.....
Now having said that...the IS should not be a family vehicle unless you have small children. Four adults could fit in there but it would be snug fit on long trips....
The TL is a great value for the money....however I think they have some build quality issues which should not occur in this class of car.....but now that Lexus has come out with the new IS....I am sure Acura is hard at work coming up with the new TL....we shall see....
I have been an Acura owner before....might be in the future...who knows....
But while I was driving the TL I was feeling ho hum....
Once I got behind the wheel of the IS....WOW!!!!!!
The salesman didn't have to say a word....he could see it on my face....it was like I was little boy in a candy store!
And to put a happy ending to this story....I am the new proud owner of a IS350! (Loving the 306 hp!!)
Just my .02...of course...
Acura TL non-navi I can get one for $31,350 plus TTL....
Lexus IS350 non-navi I got for $34,600....plus TTL.....
Roughly 3K difference in price....IS350 has added hp...258 vs 306.....the other stuff is a wash.....
The question I asked myself is this.....if I am going to spend $30K plus for a car....get the one I want and the one with the WOW!!! factor....and for me it was the IS hands down....Again, not putting down Acura at all....this is a comparison thread and that is what I am doing....
Although all opinions are welcome!
Happy Motoring....
I'm am looking at the IS very seriously, but wonder if the sport suspension is too stiff for everyday use ????
Thanx->Rocky
In my opinion, I think the way mine drives and corners is more than enough for my needs.
Allot of people say they are going to go to the mountains and push the car to the limits.....but you and I both know that doesn't happen....so why pay any extra $$$$?
That's like buying a 4x4 truck when you live in Miami? Why?
just my .02
The TL blows the 250 away sadly a V6 Acoord will as well.
SO in other words get the IS350 or get a TL or G35.
I agree...after all this TL..vs IS250/IS350 talk. I think it all comes down to - you either spend the extra $3.5-4.5K on the IS350, or buy the TL...or G35.
Rocky
note:
this is excerpted from a reply which directed anyone who doubts what I said to a TL forum listing ridiculous problems that some owners are having. some problems such as seat leather 'butt patterns' that are not fixable and shouldnt be happening at all in a > 30 grand car. Acura is NOT luxury its value. and this is coming from a former OWNER not a test driver. the IS is more than likely to be my next car and thanks to 40 dollar fill-ups, sooner than later.
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with YOUR TL. However, you might want to troll on over to the Lexus boards and see that the IS has its own share of problems. Maybe you got a :lemon: ??
My 05 is great and I don't have any issues with it. Of course, there will be that small percentage of vehicles by all makes that have issues. However, for the most part Toyota and Honda do a pretty decent job at building quality products.
The point is: don't act like Lexus is 100% free of defects, problems or issues.
By the way, I hope you don't think your current $40.00 fill ups are going away with the way the 300hp IS drinks gas....
The LS430 compares more to a Acura RL. The TL isn't even in the same class as the LS430.
The CS from Acura was excellent even if they seem a little disorganized. Still leagues above a GM dealer.
Lexus IS250 or Acura TSX
Lexus IS350 or Acura TL
IN terms of performance these are very close.
i have 2 friends one only buy Acura, the other only buy Lexus. the Acura guy who bought 99Tl, 2003 MDX, and the new
TL and the Lexus guy who bought 2001 GS430,2003Lx470,and a 2006 Rx400.i driven all of the cars they have, one thing i know for sure is that the Lexus guy have never go back to dealer except oil change.And the Acura guy he gets to know what TSX and RSX drives like for days when he went back for recall and other small problem.
the other day me and the Acura guy went to test drive the Is350, make long story short, he almost bought the car, the reason why he didnt buy it is b/c the back seat is too small for his need.so people if you have the money to spare and dont really care about the back seat space, go for the Is350, not the 250 if you drive both,the 250 is a joke for that price
I would concur that Lexus has an edge as far as luxury is concerned over Honda but better quality??- I think that is questionable and without some statistical data and/or empirical evidence to prove the same, at this point I would respectfully disagree with you.
Also, I was curious about the whole "95%" made in America comment so I looked at the window sticker of my 05 TL which clearly states that the engine and transmission are made and shipped from Japan. In all fairness, the final point of assembly for the vehicle was in Maryland. At this point, I guess I am seeking a little clarification as far as the 95% made in America comment is concerned in light of the aforementioned information off my TL window sticker.
Oh, and I do agree with you about your view on the IS250 and the price point at which it is selling at. Complete joke when you can buy a TL, G35, BMW 3, etc instead!
Lexus makes some fine luxury vehicles that are as reliable as the old Maytag washer and dryer. Unfortunately, they elicit the same type of excitement as a Maytag when you turn on the key and drive them. At one time or another I've riden in, and occassionally driven, just about every model, multiple times. I didn't expect much from the Camry based ES or luxury oriented LS. But I thought they could have at least put a little more excitement and a little less body roll in the GS400/430. The SC430 is a pitiful excuse for an attempt at a sports car.
Our Acura TL 6-speed is not perfect, by any means. I would have preferred it with RWD, as Infiniti did with the G35. But overall, with it's short throw 6-speed, Brembo brakes and sport tuned suspension, it's a enjoyable car to drive on the highway or on winding roads.
The day that Lexus makes a truly serious driver's car, I will give them fair consideration. But I'm not holding my breath.
I don't think anyone can doubt that, until they decided to go after BMW w/ the IS, Lexus nailed their products to their target market. Especially the RX. My wife didn't know a Lexus from a Lada, a BMW from a Buick. But the RX, that she knew and had to have.
My slush box TL is a wonderful drive, too. Even with the much maligned FWD, it handles very well for the driving that I do, is powerful and relatively thrifty with the go-juice and looks pretty darn good! I ultimately chose it over the G35/G35x for a number of reasons including a smoother, quieter ride and superior interior/exterior style and interior materials. But the G was a blast to drive, with an aggressive exhaust note!
G, TL, IS, 3... these are all fabulous cars. The winner/best is the one in your garage!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The G, in its various guises, has never been my cup of tea, but...when you hear one zoom by at full throttle.....! :shades:
for the honda/ acura guy ,one thing u have to know is that many of the Acura cars they make today, many parts are ship from japan and they put it together here, and that's where it goes wrong(in fact honda does have a better quality than Acura and do you konw over there in japan ,china there is no Acura).and i know on the sticker they didnt say 95% made in USA but i got the 95% from my friend who bought the 04Tl and he gets that info from the Acura Tl web
for people who like to buy BMW or Benz,think about this, which is harder to achieve when it comes to make a good car, Great performance or Make a car that never breaks down?to make a good performance you can put a bigger engine or put a turbo and perfectly tuned suspension so on..., but to make a car that never goes wrong, that's test after test years experience when it comes to built a car.In fact there are more BMW ,Benz lover are switching to lexus these days, people who buy those car u think they have time to go to dealer all the time for problems?
at last, when i test drove the Is350 (i ran the RPM to redline every gear with pedal shift)come on!!! they call that 306HP? so what's in the M3 or 911 if that's 306? what 500? lol. however it is still faster than the 04 Tl. By the way some people wonder why Acura dont make RWD is because of 2 reason. 1,cost cutting, 2,until they have a better engine with higher torque 'at wheel'Rwd is just not gonna work.
Yes, I do realize this. Thanks for clarifying. :confuse: The point I was trying to make is that the engine and transmission, which IMO is probably two (main) of the many reasons why consumers purchase Honda/Acura was made in JAPAN.
I searched the Acura website and can't find the percentages that you were referring to. What I did find (from the original window sticker) is that 65% of the parts were obtained from the US. Whether this helps clearing up the ambiguity, I leave to you to determine.
In all honesty, could the TL quite possibly be an even better product if it was assembled in Japan- sure. That being said, even with the cars still selling like hotcakes like they are with record sales in 05 and with "projected" increased sales for 06, I would venture to say that it really doesn't matter where this car is assembled because people will still buy them.
In regards to "In fact Honda does have a better quality than Honda" statement is concerned, how so?
No doubt the IS350 over powers the TL. For those individuals out there that prefer the IS (like yourself) over the TL and want to spend the extra 5-10k, happy motoring
In regards to why Acura doesn't make a RWD TL? You might want to do a search on the other forum boards and really find out why Acura doesn't do so. Simply put, they don't have to. The car sells great as configured. Imagine, if they did though....interesting....
Also, I am interested in YOUR thoughts on why Lexus doesn't offer the IS350 in a manual? The power in that beast coupled with RWD and manual would be somewhat stimluating, wouldn't you think?
The reason is that "Lexus" and "stimulating" are mutually exclusive! :P
The turning circle is a bit of an annoyance, but a minor one in my book.
YMMV.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
You might want to ship that post off to the Lexus marketing department. Every TV advertisment I've seen for the IS and GS looks like it was made by BMW's marketing department. When I first saw the new GS television advertisments, they made reference to a "six speed transmission". Needless to say, when I dropped by the Lexus dealership to test drive one, it was a 6-speed automatic. And the new IS commercials sure seem like they are trying to appeal to the "sport crowd" with their heavy emphasis on horsepower and acceleration.
Be assured, I "get" that Lexus' current model line-up is not for me, and probably never will be. The closest contender was the GX470 we considered when replacing our SUV. But, as I came to find out, that particular model has had SERIOUS quality problems, related to drive train vibrations and transmission "clunking". My wife spoke with two owners in our neighborhood who subsequently had their cars bought back by Lexus (one amicably, the other after extensive legal action).
Quality is very important to me. But so are driving dynamics and engineering. And whereas Acura apparently falls short of your requirments in the former, Lexus falls short of mine in the latter. To each their own.
"Does it keep the smile on your face month after month of daily driving? The last car that did that for me was my BMW 330i. Then I went practical and went for a Lexus LS430 (I know, what a sell out!) Anyway it's a great car for what it is, super luxury, fantastic quality and very quiet and smooth. But, it's boring. And I'm too young to be that old. (Can you say mid life crisis!)"
I am fortunate in that we added a Porsche 911 as a third car this year. But I still want a sedan that is at least a little fun to drive. And given that I'm dangerously close to the half century mark, I suspect that I'll never get old enough for that preference to change. For those that don't have such aspirations and can enjoy the Lexus for what it offers, it's an unbeatable choice.
As an aside, it's "opinions," not "opinion's," and it's "its," in this case, rather than "it's," which means "it is."
Well, it has been MANY years since University... Where I did receive a goodly edumacation!
At least I spelled TL correctly.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)