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I'm getting just over 48MPG on 90% highway driving. This is with less than 500 miles on the car. I'm stunned at the performance I'm seeing. My commute is 100 miles a day, and I average 65 to 70MPH. I drive up the SF Bay penninsula, which has some hills to get over.
Just got my HCHII last thursday, and have 434 miles on it, with an avg computer MPG of 51.1. DAMN this thing is a camel. I'm still looking at about 1/3 of a tank left. I drive 95 miles a day, and about 90 of it is highway miles. I take pains to do with my right foot what I call the "eggshell theory" of acceleration/deceleration - should be self-explanatory to all you hybrid-heads out there.... Wonder how high it'll get after the engine breaks in??? :shades:
Hi; I just read your Post here and I think that the two of us feel the same way about our New HCH II's. I still just get a real sense of joy every time I get in mine to drive it. I did a Thread on mine concerning FE (Fuel Economy) that I think you will really enjoy reading.I will list the Link here and I hope you will continue to enjoy your HCH II as I do mine still.
The meters can be off and usually understate mileage by about 1.4 MPG. This is being well documented in a thread over at greenhybrid. My last tank was 49.0 on the meter and 50.6 by hand calulation. Typical difference for me.
Yes, you can learn to drive this thing to significantly exceed EPA estimates......
Jay,
Jay yes I can tell you for sure that you can get excellent FE from the HCH II if you really drive for FE. It is not the easiest thing to do but it can be done as you saw the Pic of (My) Gauges. It is a great car and the FE is another plus.
I routinely get 51-54 mpg in my 2005 HCH. This is driving normally too - with traffic, not babying, etc.
Anyone with an HCH getting less than 50 mpg should try running a tank of mid-grade gas instead of regular. It makes about a 4-5 mpg difference for me which more than covers the price difference in fuel grades. With premium, my mileage dropped back to what I got with regular.
Well if it works for you running the Higher Octane, then I say have at it.
However I can just as a comment only regarding using higher octane fuel than the vehicle is recommended for is a waste of (Money). It is a proven fact and has been tested over and over again and again by all kinds of groups. Higher octane fuel has a slower burn rate and therefore it cannot add anything to a vehicle that is suppose to be burning 87 octane. if you put in 89 -93 octane you are not getting anything for your extra money but slower burning fuel in your engine. This is a fact not anyones opinion. The engine and the compression plus the electronics in a modern engine is set up for a specific octane like 87. If you put in 93 octane or 89 octane the compression cannot in that engine burn that grade of fuel efficient. This is just the way it is and it is not anyones opinion it is just the way the engine is designed in the 1st place to burn a certain octane fuel.
If you take a vehicle like the Corvette it is made with a higher compression and the electronics to burn the 93 octane fuel. You can use 87-89 octane but your performance will drop off because the electronics will back off the timing of the engine so as not to burn a hole in the pistons from Pre-Ignition.
However if you think it helps to burn the other higher octane fuel then I say do as you will. I will tell you this that there has been write ups on people using the higher octane in their vehicles and they have been told to stop doing it because it is a waste of money and will do more harm than good because the engine is not burning all the fuel because it has a much slower burn rate than the 87 octane that the engine was designed to use.
This is a screenshot of my last tank: 935 miles and pumped in 12.7 gallons to the rim for 73MPG. My MPG readout usually cheats me on these high mileage tanks.
Here's the tank before the above photo:
That one came in just over 60MPG.
I always burn the cheapest 87 octane fuel I can find.
Well, I'm not seeing anything NEAR these figures. I've gone through my first two tanks: 42.4 and 43 MPG. I try to drive it as 'carefully' as I can: no rabbit starts, no passing-gear highway merges, NOTHING that causes a high-RPM downshift. I try to keep as few segments showing on the 'Asst' gauge as possible, and I'm not a 'brake for no reason' kind o' guy. I allow the 'AutoStop' to do it's thang at lights, etc., and I think I'm doing everything i possibly can to help the car drive The Number up...but it won't get anywhere CLOSE to these figures.
I think y'all are yankin' me. I'm trying as hard as I can to get above 50 MPG...and it doesn't seem capable.
One factor: I'm in Tampa, and June down here is HOT. Therefore, I run the air purty much constantly, usually on fan speed 4 during the day, and 1 (or even OFF) at night.
Another possible factor: I'm using it for a grocery-grabber/commuter car, and my route is through the usual city driving. Not that many lights/stop signs, and maybe half of the 16-mile commute is freeway, so, really, it should do better than low-forties, right?
So...what does one need to do to see crazy high numbers like those reported here?
I live North of Atlanta, in rural N. Georgia. I commute about 50 miles into the city of Atlanta for work, inbound at around 5:00 while 99% of other drivers are headed outbound. Except for the occasional backup traffic is moderate. When I get into the city it is 5:30PM heavy rush hour, light to light for about 5 miles. Terrain is hilly, but not mountainous. Very few level areas I'm either going up hill or down hill.
Temps are 85-95 degrees and +80% humidity and usually fight a strong head or cross wind.
The trip back home is in the early morning hours on nearly abandoned roads. Temps are usually mid 60's to low 70's at that time. Usually a wind less night. Considering both legs of my commute is almost 100 miles/day but also use the car for trips to the store, etc. Last year our family of 5 took a 800 mile trip. Two adults and three kids, along with about 300lbs of luggage. We averaged low 50's for that trip.
I really don't want to post advanced tips here for argument sake but I don't practice potentially unsafe techniques like close drafting behind trucks, etc.
I also can't post links to other forums for Edmunds rules, but if you google "hypermile" you'll get the info you need.
First, only two tanks means your engine is still breaking in, running break-in oil, etc.
Second, I am not yanking anyone around. Using mid-grade gas made a very significant difference in mileage for me - from around 46 to around 51. I've had one tank that averaged 54.something (don't remember the decimal).
Third, even the brand of gas you use matters and you have the best instrument right there to do your own experimenting - your car with a mileage meter built right in.
Search for Honda Civic Hybrid forum and you will find a number of sites where people discuss all of this and more.
I don't draft or do anything other than drive normally and with traffic and my average is right at 51 mpg. I was just looking on my way home today and I'm showing 51.3 mpg if I remember right.
The HCH has a high-compression engine. If you are buying bad gas at the deep discount convenience stores then your engine might be trying to ping. I think (but I don't know) that the HCH has a knock sensor and will either retard timing or richen up the mixture - both of which cut into available horsepower and average mileage because your engine is running inefficiently. Even if it doesn't and your engine is pinging any at all, it's still not developing peak horsepower or efficiency.
It pisses me off when the networks run their high gas prices / what can you do to save money segments and tell people to just buy the cheapest gas you can find. That's really bad advice. The better advice though it requires a little thought on the part of the consumer is to calculate mileage and experiment with brand and grade. Keep the tires inflated properly and your engine tuned up.
The HCH and a lot of other cars handle engine tuning pretty well on their own and for the first 100,000 miles but they can't do squat about bad gas or underinflated tires.
My bet is you are buying cheap regular gas. Try other brands and grades and see what happens. But don't just challenge people and say you don't believe what they are trying to tell you without doing the experiment for yourself.
I'm not lying and neither are a lot of other people. I get right at 51 mpg consistently.
Look at the owner's manual for the HCH - it is a high compression engine.
Also, I used to do lab testing for a living and one of the things I tested was octane rating. There are windows for what a dealer can sell and still call "regular". If the regular you are buying is too low of an octane then your car pings, retards timing, or maybe even richens up. I don't know what the HCH does.
Regardless, using too low of octane means your engine is not running at peak efficiency and your mileage and power will suffer.
Using too high of octane does similar. I got similar mileage with both regular and premium. I get the best mileage with mid-grade.
My conclusion? The gas here might not be such high quality and might be pushing the low end of octane. The mid-grade might be closer to regular than regular is.
Everything you say is based on the gas you buy being the right octane. All I'm saying is don't bet on it.
Some gas stations add a certain amount of water to their gas just to increase profit - and a certain amount of water is soluble in gasoline. Refineries can produce more gasoline and make more money by not refining to as high of a standard. You do the math.
Okay, settle down, chief. I'm not saying you're 'lying', but I am not sure how ANYbody can drive The Number up to the incredible figures reported in this thread. (Yours seems reasonable at 51-54MPG; but 73MPG? NO. SALE.) Even under ideal conditions, I just don't see increasing my MPG by 60%. :surprise: How is that possible?
There are those that get great mileage from both hybrids and non-hybrids. For me it is not worth the effort. I have such short trips that you can never get great mileage. Most of the folks getting the high MPG are very conscientious about every time they step on the throttle. They also are not just driving 3 miles to the store and home. You would need a little time and a fairly lengthy commute to master hypermiling to where you would get 73 MPG on your HCH. If you get the EPA rating you are doing good. Even then you have to make a conscious effort to conserve on fuel. Good luck and google hypermiler. You may learn something.
Gagrice you are 100%, undisputed correct in your whole post.
Truly hypermiling isn't for everyone, but for the few who make a hobby of this is one of the most enjoyable times of the day...and certainly isn't limited to hybrids.
Thank you.
Regarding my family trip, yes she was pretty close to load limit, but the kids are small and I don't think it was over.
I read your Post last evening and (Actually) over-looked making a (Reply) to it. I can tell you are dealing with the real world and not some {Make-Believe} FE (Fuel Economy) numbers from the HCH II. I own a HCH II and I can assure you that the car will not get the 49 MPG Rating that the EPA placed on it for the city cycle. Maybe I should clarify that statement for those that don't own the HCH II.
If you take off with less than 2,000 RPM and try to keep it actually around say 1,500 RPM on take-off from a standing start. Don't use the A/C hardly at all. Don't go over 60 MPH, really 55 MPH. You might get something like 47-48 MPG. Maybe
Now here is more the real world of driving one (HCH II) in Very-Short-City-Driving. Excellerate at more like 2,500 to 3,000 RPM from a Stop. Set Auto-Climate Control on 78 Degrees. Drive at speeds from 30 to 65 MPH. Don't for the most part (Hold-Up-Traffic) behind you. Your mileage will be 42 MPG as {Mine} is right now.
Now I can Post this here and I have No-Reason to Lie or Down Play the HCH II. This is more like the Real-World MPG of this car driving it like a normal car. I did not say that I Jump from Stops or that I pass the vehicle in front of me. I drive very smoothly but don't for the most part hold up the vehicles from behind. This as I just said gives me at the present time 42 MPG. The temperature here in Franklin, TN. is between 91-96 Degrees and some days High Humidity to go along with the Temperature.
My distance to work and back home is 6.1 miles from garage to dealership parking lot. I then drive about the same distance to lunch every other week. This is in the city driving {Usually} in traffic, bumper to bumper, stoplight to stoplight. If I use the Interstate which is 1-exit between home and dealership I drive at a speed of 65 MPH.
So like (You) have Posted above in (Your) comments. Yes there are people getting higher MPG than what I have just mentioned but believe me their distance/commute is much longer and they are paying {Extremely-Close-Attention} to every push of the Go-Pedal with {No-A/C} and all the rest of the Hypermiling Technics that they put into each and every drive of their vehicle.
To me it gets to a point where (I) question myself on how much Fun is this? :confuse: With that being said I took the liberty to reset my instant-fuel-gauge-reading and put it on the Outside-Temperature-Reading and started enjoying my HCH II and driving it more like a normal vehicle and using it as (I) think any person would in their travels each day. I have found that now that (I) am not {Fixated} on the Instant-Fuel-Gauge-Reading that I may just really LOVE this New HCH II and keep it for a Very long time.
If anyone wants to read a (Very-Long) Post that (I) did on getting 66.7 MPG for a trip of 271.4 Miles Read Post #4 on the Link Below. So it can be done and this is how (I) did it. Not in the City @ 6.1 Mile Drives. There are Pictures of HCH II Gauges in this Link. Very Documented Review on Trip: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548
Note* Reason for Link here, The Post is Very-Long with Pics. I'm not sure about taking up that much room here so did Link to original-Post. Terry
This as I just said gives me at the present time 42 MPG
I think that is more than acceptable for short (6 mile) trips to work. I spoke with a young lady at the Costco gas pumps that had a new non hybrid Civic. I asked how she liked it. She said "fine, I just cannot get over 30 MPG". There you go the average driver is not getting hypermiles with the non-hybrid or the hybrid. It is work and to some it is fun. I think if I had a long 20 mile or longer commute, I could get into hypermiling. If I had a long commute in So. Ca I would probably slit my wrists. That is one of the reasons I moved to Alaska in 1970, the horrible traffic. It is worse now than ever. Not many Hypermilers on the roads here. Mostly hyper guzzlers.
Hi, You have some very (Real-World-Post) and I wanted to take the time to let you know it is a {Joy} to read Post from members that are not in some (Ideal) driving situations. I was not going to reply at 1st to your Post and then had a 2nd thought. Your one of the only people that I have read that deals with driving in situations where MPG and EPA Ratings may as well be {So-Many-Words}.;) I also noticed that HotGeorgia replied to your Post. He is on some other Forums that I also belong to. It was nice to see that he has common sense to realize that everyone has different commutes in their driving and therefore their FE is going to be different. Regardless of the effort put into it, unless you want to roll the windows down, spray yourself with a spray bottle to cool off, drive at 30-45 MPH, don't use the IMA, coast with key-off, and the {List} goes on and on. I am really not Slamming-Hypermiling & The Techniques but simply saying it is just way-way to much over-whelming Effort on every (Mile) of commute. I purchased my HCH II to enjoy it and all it's modern technology. To me not to use the A/C and have to drive as I just poined out is {Not-Fun} or anything close to fun and the joy of New-Vehicle Ownership. I'll take the 40 Plus MPG any day of the week and at the same time have the A/C Blowing Cold and the X/M Satellite Radio playing my Tunes.
Drive smooth and not fly down the interstate but at the same time, don't {Hold-Up-Traffic}, {Infuriate-Other-Drivers} causing them to have to use more Fuel to get around me and upsetting them so I can get better FE. :confuse:
I may be off in Left-Field on my thinking here but I really think we owe it to the other drivers on the Hwys. to be also {Courteous-of-Them} .
Why does everyone focus on the "hypermileage" driving techniques and pay absolutely no attention to the difference octane can make to your engine's efficiency and your gas mileage?
I don't do the hypermileage stuff except for maybe coasting a bit more to a stop rather than rushing to the sign/light and slamming on the brakes. I even speed a little - 5-10 mph over the limit depending on conditions.
Everyone who wants to pontificate on how lousy their mileage is in a hybrid - or any other car for that matter - ought to just try the experiment. Run a tank of mid-grade and calculate/measure your mileage just for comparison. With a 10 cent difference in cost from regular to mid-grade, what will that cost you? $1.20 if your tank is empty is what.
There is a reason those inspection stickers are on gas pumps - gas stations would like to increase profits by pumping less gas than they charge for. Refineries want to maximize profits too - and that means pushing the envelope to the lowest possible octane that still legally qualifies as "regular". Add gas stations and distributors that may also spike gas with any number of things - including water - and the "regular" you buy may not really be regular at all.
This has been my experience. Obviously your mileage may vary.
But running mid-grade made approximately a 5 mpg difference for me. Over a tank that's over a gallon savings which is about $3.00+ now. And my investment is only $1.20 on a full tank.
So yeah, the savings is only $1.80 - but that's an extra gallon of gas that I didn't buy and an extra gallon of gas not converted to CO2.
If you want to be assertive about how low your mileage is, at least try the octane thing.
Refields, your using mid-grade offers you nothing in terms of FE other then you believe it to be. Both Atlanta (Hot Georgia’s play ground) and Chicago (my locale) had the worst FE and Emissions un-friendly gasoline known to man w/ E10 RFG (summer and winter) and the highest sulfur content of any fuel on the planet other then what you could buy in the third world until recently. Even with the worst fuels, the HCH-I/II was/is still kicking @$$ and taking names when driven for higher FE. 87, 89, or 91 + treat the HCH the same. Very nicely thank you
Bluesman, the HCH is worth well over 110 mpg when all the stops are pulled. Been there, done that. 70 + is a walk in the park at highway speeds with no tricks other then a well setup HCH-I or II and maintaining ~ 55 mph while DWL and DWB. With A/C, 60 is a slam dunk in the HCH-II. Quite a bit less in the HCH-I unfortunately Around town with a few more stops pulled, 70 + is pretty easy as well. The best FE arrives while at city like speeds so use it to your advantage. The short trips without all the hybrid tricks working do suck though. That is when you take manual control and there is not a thing you or I can do about it other then a block heater and radiator block
Gagrice, as always, you love to pull the hybrid owners chain, don’t you
have the A/C Blowing Cold and the X/M Satellite Radio playing my Tunes
See that is me also. I love the individual climate control in my GMC hybrid. I also cannot imagine buying another vehicle without XM radio. It is great.
Now my mileage is not what I would call exemplary. After 12 months and 3300 miles my calculated total is 15.14 MPG. Most of those miles were put on in less than 3 mile increments. I do try to ease off the line and the auto stop is nice at long lights. There are 7 lights from my house to Costco/Home Depot 2.7 miles away. So for a full size PU it will have to do until something better comes along. Who knows Toyota says it will build a hybrid Tundra.
Terry I'll have to agree with your post. I'd like to comment that some, if not most hypermilers consider #1 Safety, #2 Courtesy and #3 Efficiency.
Chances are that when you come across a slow car holding up traffic and causing problems, enflaming other drivers...is likely someone who has no idea what they are doing and shouldn't be painted as a trained hypermiler. I too go around these dangerous drivers.
I just don't want the readers here to come across one of these problem people and think Hot Georgia, Xcel or most other hypermilers cause those problems. I also know that was not the intent of your post.
There are also benefits to squeezing the most efficiency out of a vehicle which was not mentioned. A safer, more relaxed drive, less trips to the station, less wear & tear, and of course the monetary benefit to name a few. The more one develops the skill, the more benefit is had and can be transfered to any type vehicle.
You have said a mouth full in your Post. Very on target and you are correct in that it makes No-Difference in the vehicle one is driving to improve on it's FE in a Safe Manner. We get around on these Forums, don't we?
I am also in Tampa, have about 1900 miles on my 06 Civic hybrid. I have been getting about 47 MPG on a tank. My commute is about 50 miles per day total, some highway, lots of heavy traffic (naturally). If I'm driving it with relatively little traffic, I can get 51. I did observe that using AC drops your MPG noticeably.
My MPG is coming up; nothing dramatic, you understand, but this tank is going to get @ 47-ish. All city. I caught on before I was through the first tank how to drive it 'correctly', so it's nothing I'm doing differently.
Hopefully the trend will continue, and I can get into the fifties.
I live in TN. and close to Nashville. My daily trips are 6.1 miles to work and the same to return home. My MPG on this tank is 40.8 with the A/C set at 78 Degrees Auto. I'm very Satisfied.
I guess at 71K miles my car is just getting broke in. I exceeded my distance record last tank: Beginning 69,676 Ending 70,659 983 miles Pumped 13.79g to the rim 71.28MPG
Almost 1,000 miles to a tank is pretty good I think! 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid CVT
Do you find that mid grade 91 octane improves your mileage? Others have reported similar results with the HCH. I'm curious as well about the higher grade fuel and if it helps or not. Is it just in our heads or is there some actual facts? Like a FE test?
Those numbers are purely hypothetical (not real-world).
I just thought I would pose the question in a way that would limit ambiguity.
Has anyone gone 700 miles on a tank?
FWIW, I believe that many cars will run better on gasoline that is slightly higher (in octane) than "regular". In general, the engines will produce more power, but the actual cost of fuel might be a wash.
I just picked up my 2006 civic hybrid on Monday and the first tank is getting in the low 30s MPG. What is up with that? Is there suppose to be a break in period? My wife and I are trying to drive very conservatively and the MPG is the same as our regular 2004 civic that we just turned in. It seems like the gas engine comes on immediately when you touch the accelerator, even at very low speeds. Could this be a cause?
>I just picked up my 2006 civic hybrid on Monday and the first tank is getting in the low 30s MPG. What is up with that? Is there suppose to be a break in period?
Uh, yeah. There definitely is a break-in period. It's even discussed in the manual - or it was in mine. Your car is running with break-in oil and you actually are not supposed to even change the oil until you hit a certain mileage.
Also, during break-in, you want to drive certain ways. This should also be in there. No jackrabbit, pedal-floored starts at first. Definitely no long trips using cruise control. You really shouldn't even use cruise control at all during the break-in.
You want to drive gently but normally but then start accellerating a little harder and work your way up to flooring it every now and then. The extra pressure in the combustion chamber helps to seat the rings.
The 2006 has the newer hybrid strategy compared to the 2005 (what I have) so I can't comment about the gas engine behavior on touching the accellerator. Talk to the dealer on that one or someone else here can address.
You should ultimately get much better mileage. Try reading the manual.
The manual does talk about the break-in period, but doesn't address the hybrid specifically. There is nothing in the manual about the hybrid needing a few thousand miles before getting good mileage. I just can't believe that it would ever get in the low 30's. We'll drive it for awhile and see how it does in a few weeks.
I think the following information will be of Tremendous help to you. It's very long but if you take the time to read the Thread/Info. it will cover FE on the HCH II. Terry (tigerhonaker) lonniey, I just took a look at the Article here and all the pictures are missing from it. Sorry about that, but the text is intact so you still have the information but not the Pics. Sorry
Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques to the HCH-II
Section I - Setup, Driving Routine, and FE Testing
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
The HCH-II - Honda’s most fuel efficient 4-door sedan
This article describes my personal experience in adapting basic hypermiling techniques to the HCH-II. More advanced techniques such as FAS , Drafting, and P&G are not covered here but hopefully there will be a future article on these as well. Owners of earlier HCH models might also find some information here applicable to their automobile but this article is really meant to be specific to the HCH-II.
I divided the article into 3 sections for better understanding and readability. I hope you find the same.
Driving the HCH-II involves much more of your senses than driving other non-hybrid and even some hybrid automobiles: Not only are you watching your instrumentation closely, you are also observing the road, timing traffic lights, noticing terrain, listening to the engine and gear train, and feeling the car's actions from the seat of your pants, as well as through your foot all at the same time!
Basic and Advanced Setup
As with all automobiles, a good setup can make the difference between good FE and great FE . The HCH-II is no different and in fact, may be more susceptible to an improper setup due to the smaller ICE . The benefits of break-in for example are gradual but as it progresses I can expect slightly longer glides, lower torque requirements for a given speed or terrain, and a slightly smoother running and more efficient ICE .
While accumulating miles there are other things you can do: set tire pressure at maximum listed sidewall or higher, use a high quality synthetic oil such as Mobil1’s 0W-20 or 5W-20, and quantity at no more than max height on the dip stick. I currently run 40 psi in my HCH-II’s Dunlop’s, heading up to 50 and will be switching over to the high quality, low kinematic viscosity, Honda or Mobil1 0W-20 on her first oil change.
Another more advanced setup solution could include the removal of the DRL (Daytime Running Light) fuse so as to limit the current draw from the 12V which draws off the 158 V pack by another 100 + W. That seemingly small wattage has to be replaced and it will come either from “Regen”, hidden, or forced charging from the ICE . So it should be possible to eke out another ~ .2 + mpg’s during daylight hours with this mod. Below is the fuse to be removed in order to disable the DRLs. A fuse map is also in your Owner’s Manual. I do not believe this mod has been widely used in practice so there may be unknown consequences. However it should not affect your parking lights and headlights. Hopefully others will post their experiences regarding this in the future.
Disabling DRL’s
Interior fuse panel - Fuse #37 removes DRL’s from service
Also, to remove some of the warm up FE hit from initial cold light off, I’ll pass on Xcel’s recommendation that everyone consider installing a block heater, given coolant temperature is a major input into the ECU for when to allow closed loop operation or not.
Accelerating from a stop up to given speed
Start up: When I start my car after it’s been cold for many hours or after overnight while sitting in the garage or drive, it usually starts with high revs as most cars experience during start up with an initial rich mixture like mode to warm up both the coolant and catalytic converter(s). I find no need to give the HCH-II any gas to get to the first stop sign from my home or to get out of the parking lot at work. Once past the first stop sign or so, the revs come down and I’ll then start using the accelerator pedal for propulsion.
Acceleration: I personally prefer slow acceleration over fast so typically I try not to go over 2000 RPM’s. That is only because that number has been mentioned a multitude of times by hypermilers as an informal rule of thumb. One of the tests I ran for this article backs this up as a valid benchmark so I plan to continue using it. I give it just enough accelerator to get up to speed with the current flow of traffic. My main aim is to ease up on the gas pedal as soon as possible and get the iFCD close to or at its maximum. The other thing I’ll watch is assist. If I accelerate slowly enough, I can forgo any assist but typically I try not to go over three bars of assist on most accels. The main thing I watch is the tach. If I have to do a high speed accel like onto a freeway onramp, I will get up to speed quickly then pulse my foot off the pedal a few times to lower the tach down below 2000 RPM’s as quickly as possible. This is known as Fake Shifting or FS . I will discuss more about foot to accelerator pressure later in the article. Merging onto a freeway is the only time I have difficulty keeping the tach below 2000 RPM’s as I’m forced to match the speed of cars in the right lane into which I am merging.
At speed: Once I’ve eased up on the pedal to a near constant speed, the iFCD is usually > 75mpg if on a level road and I can then hold it there with very little accelerator pedal pressure. The HCH-II can easily maintain speed with a fraction of the pedal pressure another car would normally require. I find I can keep it near 90 MPG in city driving with little trouble if no traffic is around but find it hard to stop the impulse to nudge it into an EV/Glide mode which I will also describe later. I will only match the flow of traffic if necessary. If there is no traffic behind, I’ll go slower than the speed limit, preferably 25 – 35 mph range on a 35 - 45 mph roadway. For freeway driving I stay in the far right-hand lane, typically in the 50 - 60 mph range while DWL , DWB , and rr . I moved from my favorite 2nd-to-left lane very soon after I started recording segments as I found anything above 60 mph has a definite impact on my FE . I do not use cruise control as a rule for freeway driving, even long ones! Cruise control feels too “passive” to me and since I paid for all these fancy hybrid gauges for feedback I figure I should use them. With CC on, I might as well cover them up. Below I included some CC and non-CC based steady state cruise tests which most should find enlightening and maybe shocking, as to the proper way to drive the HCH-II for maximum FE. Continued: Below:
Now that I’ve introduced how I come up to speed and maintain it, this is a good time to discuss two very specific tests I performed for this article. The first test looks at what effect speed has on FE . This test compares speeds two different ways - using cruise control and without - which also helps answer the question of which method is likely to allow the highest FE .
The second test looks at the effect of different acceleration rates on FE . The question of whether one should accelerate quickly or slowly to get up to desired speed has been a perennial forum discussion and debate and I hope the data helps shed some light, at least as far as the HCH-II is concerned.
Road and Test Conditions: Finding ideal roads for these tests seemed like half the battle. First, I wanted to be able to use a single street for all runs for data consistency but there are not many streets one can drive in a range of 30 - 60 mph (at least legally). The route also needed to be a couple miles long to allow for start up and slow down, no traffic signals, hopefully little traffic, and of course as road grade level as possible! Piece of cake I finally found a divided road that met most of these conditions except for one, a “T” intersection traffic light midway. That light rarely changed except when triggered by another car approaching and of course that only seemed to happen just as I’m barreling towards it during a run. Other traffic was a nuisance too as I would get boxed in behind a slow moving truck, a car would slow down in front of me to turn into a driveway, or some other such nonsense causing me to break speed. I expanded my library of colorful expressions and gritted my teeth through at least 2 - 3 runs for every good data point. Then I noticed if I mixed runs going in different directions I got vastly inconsistent data which implied the road was not as perfectly flat as I thought so I ensured that all the speed tests were run in one direction and the acceleration tests were run in the other direction so that each run used the exact same segment. The only test I could not run on this road was the 60 mph test, since the speed limit was 50 mph and it was too far from home for midnight testing. For that test, I picked a distinct, flat freeway segment on my commute home and recorded a run there every day for a few days.
Here are two views of the test road: one looking east and one looking west.
Mid-speed test road heading East and then West - Suburbs of LA.
As far as other environment conditions, the tests were run with a warmed up car with full battery charge, no A/C on, and the windows cracked a couple inches. There was no wind and temperatures were in the high 70’s. I found most of the data to be quite consistent, but sometimes there were surprises between similar runs.
Test 1: Speed Effects on FE
Test Steps:
1) Accelerate to desired speed (30, 40, 50, and 60 mph). Maintain speed using cruise control, then zero Trip-A odometer and drive until 1.0 mile reached. Record trip FE.
2) Repeat above for all speeds, except without using CC.
30 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,075 RPM. 40 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,175 RPM.
50 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,500 RPM. 60 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,800 RPM.
Notes: The cruise control tests did not show much variation so I only did 3 runs with CC. The tests without CC were more difficult to run holding a set speed and the results showed it so I added a 4th. I was only able to take photos of the iFCD during the runs with CC, as I found it too dangerous otherwise. I want to add that all the above results were still increasing after the 1.0 mile point, so they could have been higher with even longer segments!
Conclusions: The FE results with Cruise Control were somewhat different than I had expected. Of the 4 speeds, 40 mph clearly gave the best FE , even 5% better than 30mph. At higher speeds the results show a significant decrease of ~ 25% for each 10 mph over 40 mph.
Without CC, the tests show a quite predictable loss of FE with increasing speed of ~ 20 MPG for every 10 mph over 30 mph. Comparing FE both with and without CC, the driver’s right foot easily wins at very low speeds but by much less at higher speeds. I suspect that the 2 extreme data points at 30 mph were due to going into “EV-Assist” (but my eyes were glued to the Trip A odometer unfortunately). At 60 mph, the gap between using CC or not narrows significantly.
Because the 50 & 60 mph FE results appear low compared to what you would think the HCH-II was worth, I went and clocked an ~ 10 mile segment for comparison at 60 mph on the freeway where I got about 75 MPG (no CC). That is a huge difference which I believe indicates that FE depends to some extent on the segment length you are testing/driving.
Test 2: Acceleration Effects on FE
Test Steps: Zero Trip-A odometer while at a full stop. Accelerate smoothly until the tach needle reaches desired RPM’s (1900, 2100, and 2300 RPM’s). Maintain RPM’s until speed reaches 50 mph and use CC to maintain speed until 1.0 miles has been reached. Record trip FE.
To 0.6 miles Run # 1,900 RPM 2,100 RPM 2,300 RPM 1 38.6 mpg 35.3 mpg 34.7 mpg 2 38.8 mpg 35.3 mpg 35.2 mpg 3 - - 34.9 mpg
Average’s 38.7 mpg 35.3 mpg 34.9 mpg
Notes: In the HCH-II, it’s a bit hard to distinguish between 2100 & 2300 on the tach since the marks are so close together. Smooth acceleration is the key because if ragged, the tach will bounce around harshly Because there was very little difference in results between the 2100 and 2300 runs I wondered if the 1.0 mile distance was too long for this type of test? So I performed a second set of tests using a smaller 0.6 mile segment to see if I did something wrong with the first and to see if the results would spread more. There was little change as noted.
Conclusions: Accelerating above 1900 RPM’s results in abou
Comments
I love this car!
I just read your Post here and I think that the two of us feel the same way about our New HCH II's. I still just get a real sense of joy every time I get in mine to drive it. I did a Thread on mine concerning FE (Fuel Economy) that I think you will really enjoy reading.I will list the Link here and I hope you will continue to enjoy your HCH II as I do mine still.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=680
One question: 676.7 divided by 51.6 equals 13.11 gallons of fuel consumed. Are our MPG meters off or am I just an idiot???
Yes, you can learn to drive this thing to significantly exceed EPA estimates......
Jay
Jay,
Jay yes I can tell you for sure that you can get excellent FE from the HCH II if you really drive for FE. It is not the easiest thing to do but it can be done as you saw the Pic of (My) Gauges. It is a great car and the FE is another plus.
Terry
Anyone with an HCH getting less than 50 mpg should try running a tank of mid-grade gas instead of regular. It makes about a 4-5 mpg difference for me which more than covers the price difference in fuel grades. With premium, my mileage dropped back to what I got with regular.
All I can say is try it yourself and see.
I've talked with a number of others who not only can tell a difference between fuel grades but also from brand to brand. I can too.
There are now some gas brands I just won't buy any more - name brands too - because it's just crappy gas.
However I can just as a comment only regarding using higher octane fuel than the vehicle is recommended for is a waste of (Money). It is a proven fact and has been tested over and over again and again by all kinds of groups. Higher octane fuel has a slower burn rate and therefore it cannot add anything to a vehicle that is suppose to be burning 87 octane. if you put in 89 -93 octane you are not getting anything for your extra money but slower burning fuel in your engine. This is a fact not anyones opinion. The engine and the compression plus the electronics in a modern engine is set up for a specific octane like 87. If you put in 93 octane or 89 octane the compression cannot in that engine burn that grade of fuel efficient. This is just the way it is and it is not anyones opinion it is just the way the engine is designed in the 1st place to burn a certain octane fuel.
If you take a vehicle like the Corvette it is made with a higher compression and the electronics to burn the 93 octane fuel. You can use 87-89 octane but your performance will drop off because the electronics will back off the timing of the engine so as not to burn a hole in the pistons from Pre-Ignition.
However if you think it helps to burn the other higher octane fuel then I say do as you will. I will tell you this that there has been write ups on people using the higher octane in their vehicles and they have been told to stop doing it because it is a waste of money and will do more harm than good because the engine is not burning all the fuel because it has a much slower burn rate than the 87 octane that the engine was designed to use.
Terry
935 miles and pumped in 12.7 gallons to the rim for 73MPG.
My MPG readout usually cheats me on these high mileage tanks.
Here's the tank before the above photo:
That one came in just over 60MPG.
I always burn the cheapest 87 octane fuel I can find.
2004 Honda Civic Hybrid CVT
I think y'all are yankin' me.
One factor: I'm in Tampa, and June down here is HOT. Therefore, I run the air purty much constantly, usually on fan speed 4 during the day, and 1 (or even OFF) at night.
Another possible factor: I'm using it for a grocery-grabber/commuter car, and my route is through the usual city driving. Not that many lights/stop signs, and maybe half of the 16-mile commute is freeway, so, really, it should do better than low-forties, right?
So...what does one need to do to see crazy high numbers like those reported here?
Except for the occasional backup traffic is moderate.
When I get into the city it is 5:30PM heavy rush hour, light to light for about 5 miles.
Terrain is hilly, but not mountainous. Very few level areas I'm either going up hill or down hill.
Temps are 85-95 degrees and +80% humidity and usually fight a strong head or cross wind.
The trip back home is in the early morning hours on nearly abandoned roads. Temps are usually mid 60's to low 70's at that time. Usually a wind less night.
Considering both legs of my commute is almost 100 miles/day but also use the car for trips to the store, etc.
Last year our family of 5 took a 800 mile trip. Two adults and three kids, along with about 300lbs of luggage.
We averaged low 50's for that trip.
I really don't want to post advanced tips here for argument sake but I don't practice potentially unsafe techniques like close drafting behind trucks, etc.
I also can't post links to other forums for Edmunds rules, but if you google "hypermile" you'll get the info you need.
You got 300 lbs of luggage into the car?? Impressive! That trunk is 10 Cubic Ft, if I recall correctly.
With 5 people and 300 lbs, weren't you over the load limit for the Civic?
Second, I am not yanking anyone around. Using mid-grade gas made a very significant difference in mileage for me - from around 46 to around 51. I've had one tank that averaged 54.something (don't remember the decimal).
Third, even the brand of gas you use matters and you have the best instrument right there to do your own experimenting - your car with a mileage meter built right in.
Search for Honda Civic Hybrid forum and you will find a number of sites where people discuss all of this and more.
I don't draft or do anything other than drive normally and with traffic and my average is right at 51 mpg. I was just looking on my way home today and I'm showing 51.3 mpg if I remember right.
The HCH has a high-compression engine. If you are buying bad gas at the deep discount convenience stores then your engine might be trying to ping. I think (but I don't know) that the HCH has a knock sensor and will either retard timing or richen up the mixture - both of which cut into available horsepower and average mileage because your engine is running inefficiently. Even if it doesn't and your engine is pinging any at all, it's still not developing peak horsepower or efficiency.
It pisses me off when the networks run their high gas prices / what can you do to save money segments and tell people to just buy the cheapest gas you can find. That's really bad advice. The better advice though it requires a little thought on the part of the consumer is to calculate mileage and experiment with brand and grade. Keep the tires inflated properly and your engine tuned up.
The HCH and a lot of other cars handle engine tuning pretty well on their own and for the first 100,000 miles but they can't do squat about bad gas or underinflated tires.
My bet is you are buying cheap regular gas. Try other brands and grades and see what happens. But don't just challenge people and say you don't believe what they are trying to tell you without doing the experiment for yourself.
I'm not lying and neither are a lot of other people. I get right at 51 mpg consistently.
Also, I used to do lab testing for a living and one of the things I tested was octane rating. There are windows for what a dealer can sell and still call "regular". If the regular you are buying is too low of an octane then your car pings, retards timing, or maybe even richens up. I don't know what the HCH does.
Regardless, using too low of octane means your engine is not running at peak efficiency and your mileage and power will suffer.
Using too high of octane does similar. I got similar mileage with both regular and premium. I get the best mileage with mid-grade.
My conclusion? The gas here might not be such high quality and might be pushing the low end of octane. The mid-grade might be closer to regular than regular is.
Everything you say is based on the gas you buy being the right octane. All I'm saying is don't bet on it.
Some gas stations add a certain amount of water to their gas just to increase profit - and a certain amount of water is soluble in gasoline. Refineries can produce more gasoline and make more money by not refining to as high of a standard. You do the math.
There are those that get great mileage from both hybrids and non-hybrids. For me it is not worth the effort. I have such short trips that you can never get great mileage. Most of the folks getting the high MPG are very conscientious about every time they step on the throttle. They also are not just driving 3 miles to the store and home. You would need a little time and a fairly lengthy commute to master hypermiling to where you would get 73 MPG on your HCH. If you get the EPA rating you are doing good. Even then you have to make a conscious effort to conserve on fuel. Good luck and google hypermiler. You may learn something.
Truly hypermiling isn't for everyone, but for the few who make a hobby of this is one of the most enjoyable times of the day...and certainly isn't limited to hybrids.
Thank you.
Regarding my family trip, yes she was pretty close to load limit, but the kids are small and I don't think it was over.
If you take off with less than 2,000 RPM and try to keep it actually around say 1,500 RPM on take-off from a standing start. Don't use the A/C hardly at all. Don't go over 60 MPH, really 55 MPH. You might get something like 47-48 MPG. Maybe
Now here is more the real world of driving one (HCH II) in Very-Short-City-Driving. Excellerate at more like 2,500 to 3,000 RPM from a Stop. Set Auto-Climate Control on 78 Degrees. Drive at speeds from 30 to 65 MPH. Don't for the most part (Hold-Up-Traffic) behind you. Your mileage will be 42 MPG as {Mine} is right now.
Now I can Post this here and I have No-Reason to Lie or Down Play the HCH II. This is more like the Real-World MPG of this car driving it like a normal car. I did not say that I Jump from Stops or that I pass the vehicle in front of me. I drive very smoothly but don't for the most part hold up the vehicles from behind. This as I just said gives me at the present time 42 MPG. The temperature here in Franklin, TN. is between 91-96 Degrees and some days High Humidity to go along with the Temperature.
My distance to work and back home is 6.1 miles from garage to dealership parking lot. I then drive about the same distance to lunch every other week. This is in the city driving {Usually} in traffic, bumper to bumper, stoplight to stoplight. If I use the Interstate which is 1-exit between home and dealership I drive at a speed of 65 MPH.
So like (You) have Posted above in (Your) comments. Yes there are people getting higher MPG than what I have just mentioned but believe me their distance/commute is much longer and they are paying {Extremely-Close-Attention} to every push of the Go-Pedal with {No-A/C} and all the rest of the Hypermiling Technics that they put into each and every drive of their vehicle.
To me it gets to a point where (I) question myself on how much Fun is this? :confuse: With that being said I took the liberty to reset my instant-fuel-gauge-reading and put it on the Outside-Temperature-Reading and started enjoying my HCH II and driving it more like a normal vehicle and using it as (I) think any person would in their travels each day. I have found that now that (I) am not {Fixated} on the Instant-Fuel-Gauge-Reading that I may just really LOVE this New HCH II and keep it for a Very long time.
If anyone wants to read a (Very-Long) Post that (I) did on getting 66.7 MPG for a trip of 271.4 Miles Read Post #4 on the Link Below. So it can be done and this is how (I) did it. Not in the City @ 6.1 Mile Drives.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548
Note* Reason for Link here, The Post is Very-Long with Pics. I'm not sure about taking up that much room here so did Link to original-Post. Terry
Terry
I think that is more than acceptable for short (6 mile) trips to work. I spoke with a young lady at the Costco gas pumps that had a new non hybrid Civic. I asked how she liked it. She said "fine, I just cannot get over 30 MPG". There you go the average driver is not getting hypermiles with the non-hybrid or the hybrid. It is work and to some it is fun. I think if I had a long 20 mile or longer commute, I could get into hypermiling. If I had a long commute in So. Ca I would probably slit my wrists. That is one of the reasons I moved to Alaska in 1970, the horrible traffic. It is worse now than ever. Not many Hypermilers on the roads here. Mostly hyper guzzlers.
You have some very (Real-World-Post) and I wanted to take the time to let you know it is a {Joy} to read Post from members that are not in some (Ideal) driving situations. I was not going to reply at 1st to your Post and then had a 2nd thought. Your one of the only people that I have read that deals with driving in situations where MPG and EPA Ratings may as well be {So-Many-Words}.;) I also noticed that HotGeorgia replied to your Post. He is on some other Forums that I also belong to. It was nice to see that he has common sense to realize that everyone has different commutes in their driving and therefore their FE is going to be different. Regardless of the effort put into it, unless you want to roll the windows down, spray yourself with a spray bottle to cool off, drive at 30-45 MPH, don't use the IMA, coast with key-off, and the {List} goes on and on. I am really not Slamming-Hypermiling & The Techniques but simply saying it is just way-way to much over-whelming Effort on every (Mile) of commute.
Drive smooth and not fly down the interstate but at the same time, don't {Hold-Up-Traffic}, {Infuriate-Other-Drivers} causing them to have to use more Fuel to get around me and upsetting them so I can get better FE. :confuse:
I may be off in Left-Field on my thinking here but I really think we owe it to the other drivers on the Hwys. to be also {Courteous-of-Them} .
Terry
BTW, Your are living in Alaska ? :confuse:
I don't do the hypermileage stuff except for maybe coasting a bit more to a stop rather than rushing to the sign/light and slamming on the brakes. I even speed a little - 5-10 mph over the limit depending on conditions.
Everyone who wants to pontificate on how lousy their mileage is in a hybrid - or any other car for that matter - ought to just try the experiment. Run a tank of mid-grade and calculate/measure your mileage just for comparison. With a 10 cent difference in cost from regular to mid-grade, what will that cost you? $1.20 if your tank is empty is what.
There is a reason those inspection stickers are on gas pumps - gas stations would like to increase profits by pumping less gas than they charge for. Refineries want to maximize profits too - and that means pushing the envelope to the lowest possible octane that still legally qualifies as "regular". Add gas stations and distributors that may also spike gas with any number of things - including water - and the "regular" you buy may not really be regular at all.
This has been my experience. Obviously your mileage may vary.
But running mid-grade made approximately a 5 mpg difference for me. Over a tank that's over a gallon savings which is about $3.00+ now. And my investment is only $1.20 on a full tank.
So yeah, the savings is only $1.80 - but that's an extra gallon of gas that I didn't buy and an extra gallon of gas not converted to CO2.
If you want to be assertive about how low your mileage is, at least try the octane thing.
You know I think just for the sake of saying I tried it, {I-Will}. Next 2-Tanks of fuel will be {89-Octane Shell Gas} .
Like you say, What is a $1.20 or so for a tank of Gas?
So we shall see how it goes.
Terry
I'll have to save up my penneys but I think I can pull off this investment for this Try-Out: :P
Refields, your using mid-grade offers you nothing in terms of FE other then you believe it to be. Both Atlanta (Hot Georgia’s play ground) and Chicago (my locale) had the worst FE and Emissions un-friendly gasoline known to man w/ E10 RFG (summer and winter) and the highest sulfur content of any fuel on the planet other then what you could buy in the third world until recently. Even with the worst fuels, the HCH-I/II was/is still kicking @$$ and taking names when driven for higher FE. 87, 89, or 91 + treat the HCH the same. Very nicely thank you
Bluesman, the HCH is worth well over 110 mpg when all the stops are pulled. Been there, done that. 70 + is a walk in the park at highway speeds with no tricks other then a well setup HCH-I or II and maintaining ~ 55 mph while DWL and DWB. With A/C, 60 is a slam dunk in the HCH-II. Quite a bit less in the HCH-I unfortunately
Gagrice, as always, you love to pull the hybrid owners chain, don’t you
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
See that is me also. I love the individual climate control in my GMC hybrid. I also cannot imagine buying another vehicle without XM radio. It is great.
Now my mileage is not what I would call exemplary. After 12 months and 3300 miles my calculated total is 15.14 MPG. Most of those miles were put on in less than 3 mile increments. I do try to ease off the line and the auto stop is nice at long lights. There are 7 lights from my house to Costco/Home Depot 2.7 miles away. So for a full size PU it will have to do until something better comes along. Who knows Toyota says it will build a hybrid Tundra.
I'd like to comment that some, if not most hypermilers consider #1 Safety, #2 Courtesy and #3 Efficiency.
Chances are that when you come across a slow car holding up traffic and causing problems, enflaming other drivers...is likely someone who has no idea what they are doing and shouldn't be painted as a trained hypermiler.
I too go around these dangerous drivers.
I just don't want the readers here to come across one of these problem people and think Hot Georgia, Xcel or most other hypermilers cause those problems.
I also know that was not the intent of your post.
There are also benefits to squeezing the most efficiency out of a vehicle which was not mentioned.
A safer, more relaxed drive, less trips to the station, less wear & tear, and of course the monetary benefit to name a few.
The more one develops the skill, the more benefit is had and can be transfered to any type vehicle.
You have said a mouth full in your Post. Very on target and you are correct in that it makes No-Difference in the vehicle one is driving to improve on it's FE in a Safe Manner. We get around on these Forums, don't we?
Terry
Say are you going to Hybridfest? in July?
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823
Hopefully the trend will continue, and I can get into the fifties.
I'm very Satisfied.
Terry (Tiger)
I exceeded my distance record last tank:
Beginning 69,676
Ending 70,659
983 miles
Pumped 13.79g to the rim
71.28MPG
Almost 1,000 miles to a tank is pretty good I think!
2004 Honda Civic Hybrid CVT
So what the furthest you have gone on a single tank?
useful info would be like:
05 HCH
Seattle -> Salt Lake City
June 2006
2 people + luggage
91 octane Arco midgrade
846 miles 13.1 gal = 64.6 mpg
DB
Do you find that mid grade 91 octane improves your mileage? Others have reported similar results with the HCH.
I'm curious as well about the higher grade fuel and if it helps or not. Is it just in our heads or is there some actual facts? Like a FE test?
Terry
2006 HCH II Owner, Link to Pic or my HCH II.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1449link title
2006 HCH II owner
I just thought I would pose the question in a way that would limit ambiguity.
Has anyone gone 700 miles on a tank?
FWIW, I believe that many cars will run better on gasoline that is slightly higher (in octane) than "regular". In general, the engines will produce more power, but the actual cost of fuel might be a wash.
DB
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/504/MPG_6_7_06_jpg.JPG
I just picked up my 2006 civic hybrid on Monday and the first tank is getting in the low 30s MPG. What is up with that? Is there suppose to be a break in period? My wife and I are trying to drive very conservatively and the MPG is the same as our regular 2004 civic that we just turned in. It seems like the gas engine comes on immediately when you touch the accelerator, even at very low speeds. Could this be a cause?
thanks,
Uh, yeah. There definitely is a break-in period. It's even discussed in the manual - or it was in mine. Your car is running with break-in oil and you actually are not supposed to even change the oil until you hit a certain mileage.
Also, during break-in, you want to drive certain ways. This should also be in there. No jackrabbit, pedal-floored starts at first. Definitely no long trips using cruise control. You really shouldn't even use cruise control at all during the break-in.
You want to drive gently but normally but then start accellerating a little harder and work your way up to flooring it every now and then. The extra pressure in the combustion chamber helps to seat the rings.
The 2006 has the newer hybrid strategy compared to the 2005 (what I have) so I can't comment about the gas engine behavior on touching the accellerator. Talk to the dealer on that one or someone else here can address.
You should ultimately get much better mileage. Try reading the manual.
Are you in a very hot climate? If so the AC running will require the ICE to keep the batteries up. The AC drains the batteries quickly.
I think the following information will be of Tremendous help to you. It's very long but if you take the time to read the Thread/Info. it will cover FE on the HCH II.
Terry (tigerhonaker)
lonniey, I just took a look at the Article here and all the pictures are missing from it. Sorry about that, but the text is intact so you still have the information but not the Pics. Sorry
Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques to the HCH-II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -
Section I - Setup, Driving Routine, and FE Testing
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
The HCH-II - Honda’s most fuel efficient 4-door sedan
This article describes my personal experience in adapting basic hypermiling techniques to the HCH-II. More advanced techniques such as FAS , Drafting, and P&G are not covered here but hopefully there will be a future article on these as well. Owners of earlier HCH models might also find some information here applicable to their automobile but this article is really meant to be specific to the HCH-II.
I divided the article into 3 sections for better understanding and readability. I hope you find the same.
Driving the HCH-II involves much more of your senses than driving other non-hybrid and even some hybrid automobiles: Not only are you watching your instrumentation closely, you are also observing the road, timing traffic lights, noticing terrain, listening to the engine and gear train, and feeling the car's actions from the seat of your pants, as well as through your foot all at the same time!
Basic and Advanced Setup
As with all automobiles, a good setup can make the difference between good FE and great FE . The HCH-II is no different and in fact, may be more susceptible to an improper setup due to the smaller ICE . The benefits of break-in for example are gradual but as it progresses I can expect slightly longer glides, lower torque requirements for a given speed or terrain, and a slightly smoother running and more efficient ICE .
While accumulating miles there are other things you can do: set tire pressure at maximum listed sidewall or higher, use a high quality synthetic oil such as Mobil1’s 0W-20 or 5W-20, and quantity at no more than max height on the dip stick. I currently run 40 psi in my HCH-II’s Dunlop’s, heading up to 50 and will be switching over to the high quality, low kinematic viscosity, Honda or Mobil1 0W-20 on her first oil change.
Another more advanced setup solution could include the removal of the DRL (Daytime Running Light) fuse so as to limit the current draw from the 12V which draws off the 158 V pack by another 100 + W. That seemingly small wattage has to be replaced and it will come either from “Regen”, hidden, or forced charging from the ICE . So it should be possible to eke out another ~ .2 + mpg’s during daylight hours with this mod. Below is the fuse to be removed in order to disable the DRLs. A fuse map is also in your Owner’s Manual. I do not believe this mod has been widely used in practice so there may be unknown consequences. However it should not affect your parking lights and headlights. Hopefully others will post their experiences regarding this in the future.
Disabling DRL’s
Interior fuse panel - Fuse #37 removes DRL’s from service
Also, to remove some of the warm up FE hit from initial cold light off, I’ll pass on Xcel’s recommendation that everyone consider installing a block heater, given coolant temperature is a major input into the ECU for when to allow closed loop operation or not.
Accelerating from a stop up to given speed
Start up: When I start my car after it’s been cold for many hours or after overnight while sitting in the garage or drive, it usually starts with high revs as most cars experience during start up with an initial rich mixture like mode to warm up both the coolant and catalytic converter(s). I find no need to give the HCH-II any gas to get to the first stop sign from my home or to get out of the parking lot at work. Once past the first stop sign or so, the revs come down and I’ll then start using the accelerator pedal for propulsion.
Acceleration: I personally prefer slow acceleration over fast so typically I try not to go over 2000 RPM’s. That is only because that number has been mentioned a multitude of times by hypermilers as an informal rule of thumb. One of the tests I ran for this article backs this up as a valid benchmark so I plan to continue using it. I give it just enough accelerator to get up to speed with the current flow of traffic. My main aim is to ease up on the gas pedal as soon as possible and get the iFCD close to or at its maximum. The other thing I’ll watch is assist. If I accelerate slowly enough, I can forgo any assist but typically I try not to go over three bars of assist on most accels. The main thing I watch is the tach. If I have to do a high speed accel like onto a freeway onramp, I will get up to speed quickly then pulse my foot off the pedal a few times to lower the tach down below 2000 RPM’s as quickly as possible. This is known as Fake Shifting or FS . I will discuss more about foot to accelerator pressure later in the article. Merging onto a freeway is the only time I have difficulty keeping the tach below 2000 RPM’s as I’m forced to match the speed of cars in the right lane into which I am merging.
At speed: Once I’ve eased up on the pedal to a near constant speed, the iFCD is usually > 75mpg if on a level road and I can then hold it there with very little accelerator pedal pressure. The HCH-II can easily maintain speed with a fraction of the pedal pressure another car would normally require. I find I can keep it near 90 MPG in city driving with little trouble if no traffic is around but find it hard to stop the impulse to nudge it into an EV/Glide mode which I will also describe later. I will only match the flow of traffic if necessary. If there is no traffic behind, I’ll go slower than the speed limit, preferably 25 – 35 mph range on a 35 - 45 mph roadway. For freeway driving I stay in the far right-hand lane, typically in the 50 - 60 mph range while DWL , DWB , and rr . I moved from my favorite 2nd-to-left lane very soon after I started recording segments as I found anything above 60 mph has a definite impact on my FE . I do not use cruise control as a rule for freeway driving, even long ones! Cruise control feels too “passive” to me and since I paid for all these fancy hybrid gauges for feedback I figure I should use them. With CC on, I might as well cover them up. Below I included some CC and non-CC based steady state cruise tests which most should find enlightening and maybe shocking, as to the proper way to drive the HCH-II for maximum FE.
Continued: Below:
Speed and Acceleration Tests
Now that I’ve introduced how I come up to speed and maintain it, this is a good time to discuss two very specific tests I performed for this article. The first test looks at what effect speed has on FE . This test compares speeds two different ways - using cruise control and without - which also helps answer the question of which method is likely to allow the highest FE .
The second test looks at the effect of different acceleration rates on FE . The question of whether one should accelerate quickly or slowly to get up to desired speed has been a perennial forum discussion and debate and I hope the data helps shed some light, at least as far as the HCH-II is concerned.
Road and Test Conditions: Finding ideal roads for these tests seemed like half the battle. First, I wanted to be able to use a single street for all runs for data consistency but there are not many streets one can drive in a range of 30 - 60 mph (at least legally). The route also needed to be a couple miles long to allow for start up and slow down, no traffic signals, hopefully little traffic, and of course as road grade level as possible! Piece of cake I finally found a divided road that met most of these conditions except for one, a “T” intersection traffic light midway. That light rarely changed except when triggered by another car approaching and of course that only seemed to happen just as I’m barreling towards it during a run. Other traffic was a nuisance too as I would get boxed in behind a slow moving truck, a car would slow down in front of me to turn into a driveway, or some other such nonsense causing me to break speed. I expanded my library of colorful expressions and gritted my teeth through at least 2 - 3 runs for every good data point. Then I noticed if I mixed runs going in different directions I got vastly inconsistent data which implied the road was not as perfectly flat as I thought so I ensured that all the speed tests were run in one direction and the acceleration tests were run in the other direction so that each run used the exact same segment. The only test I could not run on this road was the 60 mph test, since the speed limit was 50 mph and it was too far from home for midnight testing. For that test, I picked a distinct, flat freeway segment on my commute home and recorded a run there every day for a few days.
Here are two views of the test road: one looking east and one looking west.
Mid-speed test road heading East and then West - Suburbs of LA.
As far as other environment conditions, the tests were run with a warmed up car with full battery charge, no A/C on, and the windows cracked a couple inches. There was no wind and temperatures were in the high 70’s. I found most of the data to be quite consistent, but sometimes there were surprises between similar runs.
Test 1: Speed Effects on FE
Test Steps:
1) Accelerate to desired speed (30, 40, 50, and 60 mph). Maintain speed using cruise control, then zero Trip-A odometer and drive until 1.0 mile reached. Record trip FE.
2) Repeat above for all speeds, except without using CC.
Trip-A – Constant speed tests - MPG Results
With Cruise Control
Run # 30 mph 40 mph 50 mph 60 mph
1 84.3 mpg 89.3 mpg 69.1 mpg 56.4 mpg
2 86.5 mpg 89.0 mpg 64.8 mpg 48.5 mpg
3 85.1 mpg 90.7 mpg 67.3 mpg 50.5 mpg
Average’s 85.3 mpg 89.7 mpg 67.1 mpg 51.8 mpg
Without Cruise Control
Run # 30 mph 40 mph 50 mph 60 mph
1 109.6 mpg 95.4 mpg 70.9 mpg 57.9 mpg
2 99.2 mpg 96.0 mpg 71.4 mpg 56.0 mpg
3 97.6 mpg 87.4 mpg 70.2 mpg 52.9 mpg
4 140.0 mpg 92.2 mpg 68.8 mpg 53.8 mpg
Average’s 111.6 mpg 92.2 mpg 68.8 mpg 53.8 mpg
30 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,075 RPM. 40 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,175 RPM.
50 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,500 RPM. 60 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,800 RPM.
Notes: The cruise control tests did not show much variation so I only did 3 runs with CC. The tests without CC were more difficult to run holding a set speed and the results showed it so I added a 4th. I was only able to take photos of the iFCD during the runs with CC, as I found it too dangerous otherwise. I want to add that all the above results were still increasing after the 1.0 mile point, so they could have been higher with even longer segments!
Conclusions: The FE results with Cruise Control were somewhat different than I had expected. Of the 4 speeds, 40 mph clearly gave the best FE , even 5% better than 30mph. At higher speeds the results show a significant decrease of ~ 25% for each 10 mph over 40 mph.
Without CC, the tests show a quite predictable loss of FE with increasing speed of ~ 20 MPG for every 10 mph over 30 mph. Comparing FE both with and without CC, the driver’s right foot easily wins at very low speeds but by much less at higher speeds. I suspect that the 2 extreme data points at 30 mph were due to going into “EV-Assist” (but my eyes were glued to the Trip A odometer unfortunately). At 60 mph, the gap between using CC or not narrows significantly.
Because the 50 & 60 mph FE results appear low compared to what you would think the HCH-II was worth, I went and clocked an ~ 10 mile segment for comparison at 60 mph on the freeway where I got about 75 MPG (no CC). That is a huge difference which I believe indicates that FE depends to some extent on the segment length you are testing/driving.
Test 2: Acceleration Effects on FE
Test Steps: Zero Trip-A odometer while at a full stop. Accelerate smoothly until the tach needle reaches desired RPM’s (1900, 2100, and 2300 RPM’s). Maintain RPM’s until speed reaches 50 mph and use CC to maintain speed until 1.0 miles has been reached. Record trip FE.
Trip-A – Acceleration tests - MPG Results
To 1.0 miles
Run # 1,900 RPM 2,100 RPM 2,300 RPM
1 44.2 mpg 40.9 mpg 41.6 mpg
2 44.2 mpg 42.1 mpg 42.9 mpg
3 45.4 mpg 42.4 mpg 42.7 mpg
4 47.7 mpg 42.2 mpg 41.4 mpg
5 44.2 mpg 40.9 mpg 40.3 mpg
Average’s 45.1 mpg 41.7 mpg 41.8 mpg
To 0.6 miles
Run # 1,900 RPM 2,100 RPM 2,300 RPM
1 38.6 mpg 35.3 mpg 34.7 mpg
2 38.8 mpg 35.3 mpg 35.2 mpg
3 - - 34.9 mpg
Average’s 38.7 mpg 35.3 mpg 34.9 mpg
Notes: In the HCH-II, it’s a bit hard to distinguish between 2100 & 2300 on the tach since the marks are so close together. Smooth acceleration is the key because if ragged, the tach will bounce around harshly Because there was very little difference in results between the 2100 and 2300 runs I wondered if the 1.0 mile distance was too long for this type of test? So I performed a second set of tests using a smaller 0.6 mile segment to see if I did something wrong with the first and to see if the results would spread more. There was little change as noted.
Conclusions: Accelerating above 1900 RPM’s results in abou