Anyone familiar with the limo biz? I have this question, which seems to be of some concern
I met this guy that supposedly builds the longest and biggest limos in the world and I was going to do sales for him and he said anyone that gets him a sale of a limo or whatever gets 10% This was last month when we met
So a few weeks he sends over this lead who is an electric motor inventor. The guy is looking for sponsorships but I was pitching a corvette limo for $80,000 after the guy told me his budget was $100,000
He comes back and says he was confused, that he was looking for sponsorship.
So I sent the lead back to the limo guy and the next day or so he emails me saying the guy called and bought a limo and that I get $500.
So I got to thinking about this deal and I can't find a limo that costs $5000 that gives me my $500 commission.
So he tells me: I MARK THE LIMOS UP $5,000 SO YOU MAKE 10% of my profit which is $500.00 (some limos are bigger like double or triple commish, this means you make 2 or 3 times that commish.
These limos range from the low $20,000's to hundreds of thousands
I've never heard of anyone in any industry making commission off sales from any product in the 17 years I've been in the sales field.
Is this a normal deal? Because I feel cheated when the guy said he pays 10% and then when the sale comes, says its from his profit.
when you go to an electronics store and you buy a computer for $1000 from Joe the salesman He doesnt make 10% of the profit of that product He makes a percentage off the sales price 10% of that sale is $100 If he made a percentage off the profit, why would he work there? To get 20 bucks? When I sold health products for 2 years over the phone and sold a $500 package I made $120 that took me 15 minutes on the avg That was at least 18-36% of the sale Not of the profit
HE SAID: Look, i don't have a gun to anyones head. if you like, then stay, if you dont, then go. look a good sale man can make 5 sales per week, that is 2500.00, if you don't like this, then sales are not for you.
PS tell the people that the hype is the real deal, tell them to read my bio, then SPEAK!
If I sold the car for $50,000 and I get only $500 that's 1%
Is that fair?
the limos I sell are other peoples limos. if they want 50k, I sell it for 55k this is 5k to the company, 500.00 to the sales cat, I have 30k per month in bills and advertisement, I need 8 sales to break even.
Alan your a potential millionaire, and you don't even know it! if you take this amount of energy and put it into my limo sales, (I have 16,000.00 now) and try and suit them up for a limo of their wishes, you will make BANK!
supply & deman
I have the supply, and I have the demand, I simply don't have the manpower! if I can have 10 of you, and keep you focused on my leads, and forget about everything else in life (But your loved ones) I will make you mega$$$$
This is very normal. You get paid a percentage on the profit, not on the entire sale. Salesmen would be making mega bucks if we made a commission on the entire sale.
No car dealer that I ever heard of or knew pays a percentage of commission based on the selling price alone. It's all paid on profit.
As for GM, it depends what dealer you work at as every one has a different pay plan, and many times one dealership may have salespeople with different pay plans too.
Once again the norm in the car biz is that you get a percentage of the profit. If you don't think it will work for you then you should renegotiate with him.
Plus posting a link of his business will not change the fact that that's how car sales work.
Welcome to the car biz. ALL salespeople get paid on the PROFIT they generate. Regardless of the cost of the car. 10% is on the low side though. Most commission plans are near the 20% range. I'd see if you can't maybe negotiate in a unit bonus or something.
Remember when Crazy Eddie used to pedal his electronics that way? I'm seeing this now with used cars in my area.
Now if you talk to most sales folks they will tell you not to expect KBB or NADA trade-in value for your ride. "Mr. Kelly doesn't write you a check for your car." Sound familiar?
So how come dealers in my area price their cars 2K higher than these guides say is full retail? This represents a 30% to 40% bump over auction value (which is what you usually get offered for your trade).
And these aren't cream puffs either. I'm talking miled-up Buicks and old Camarys 6cyl. for thousands above any book.
I don't blame any business for trying for all the money they can make but is there really anyone out there who would pay premium prices for old rentals with bad Carfaxs?
Is there a logic I'm missing here?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Sometimes we'll pay over book in order to make a deal happen.
If used car lots price themselves out of the market then they'll suffer. And yes once in a while someone will pay full pop for one of these high milers.
"...Sometimes we'll pay over book to make a deal happen..."
And try to make it up on the next customer. That must make for a tough sell as you limit how much you can give up.
"...If used car lots price themselves out of the market..."
This is where I don't see the logic. If you price way over market won't you be sitting on inventory for a longer period of time? Doesn't this cost money?
Pricing above KBB and NADA Retail (which are usually above market) seems like it would turn off a lot of potential customers who are smart enough to do a little research.
Maybe there are more dumb or lazy buyers out there than I thought.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I've raised this question many many times over the last several years oldfarmer... recently only a couple weeks ago. The answers just do not make any sense... from a business standpoint. But, no other business is run like the automotive industry... so there you go.
"...no other business is run like the automotive industry..."
You can say that again. Years ago, before I discovered the internet I was looking at a car that was priced at 9K. The only source I checked was the NADA guide at the library.
NADA said full retail was $7700 and wholesale was about 1K less. I offered $6500 and the salesman acted like I just kicked his dog. He took me aside and in his best fatherly voice told me that he wouldn't waste my time and that $7700 was the best he could do.
When I mentioned that his price was full retail he acted as if the dog was now dead. "Those books don't keep track of what cars are worth" he snorted." There's no way I can sell for less".
A few days later I called back and raised my offer a few hundred. My salesman wasn't there but the Sales Manager immediately accepted with a surprised tone of voice indicating that I'd paid too much.
In the end I got the price down about 18-20%. From what I've learned since, I estimate they made about a 13% profit over what they had in the car.
I think I would have preferred to just pay the 13% and be done. As it was they very nearly lost the sale.
I don't mean this to be insulting to sales people but this process reminds me of the guy in the bar who makes an insulting proposition to every girl and if he gets lucky with one out of a hundred feels his technique is working. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
As I am sure you are aware, there is asking,and then there is getting. There actually is a very good reason for pricing a car at Kelley retail. A couple actually. 1 Most consumers expect large discounts on cars nowadays. So, being able to show a $4 or $5 thousand dollar discount,instead of only a couple grand has real benefit. 2 Sometime, people are upside down in their trades(imagine that). Having a lot of room in your price means you can show more for a trade in. 3 There is another adage, if you don't ask, you don't get. People do flop sometimes for your price. U/C profits are really the last area of proftability left in the selling of cars. Remember, the market isn't geared for the smart carbuyer. There simply aren't enough of them out there. It is geared for the AVERAGE carbuyer.
I have learned early on that NADA wholesale numbers are just stupid. Correct me if I am wrong, but based on my research NADA on average is about 10 to 20% higher than the Black Book. Not that many dealers are willing to pay Black Book number for trade-ins.
"...NADA on average is about 10 to 20% higher than Black Book..."
I've never seen the Black Book figures. Isn't that by subscription only?
Even NADA and KBB state that their dealer retail is the "asking price" from which the dealer is willing to go down. That's why I assume they are always higher than Edmunds TMV which is suposed to be based on actual prices paid.
My original post was commenting on the fact that in my area dealer prices are 2K or more HIGHER than NADA or KBB. I was puzzeled by the logic of this and still am. Volvomax explained the dealers viewpoint very well. I guess salespeople are eternal optimists.
As to what dealers are willing to pay for trade-ins I can understand why they would be reluctant to pay more for my trade-in than for a similar car at the auction except where they have to over pay a little to make the deal.
That's one of the reasons I keep my cars until they are scrap.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I've never seen the Black Book figures. Isn't that by subscription only?
Yes, it is.
My original post was commenting on the fact that in my area dealer prices are 2K or more HIGHER than NADA or KBB. I was puzzeled by the logic of this and still am. Volvomax explained the dealers viewpoint very well. I guess salespeople are eternal optimists.
Not necessarily optimists, just experienced in the ways of selling cars
We bought an Odyssey from them. When we were talking to the sales guy he asked us to sign on a blank piece of paper. I asked "what for?" he said to state our intention to buy a car!! We already felt uncomfortable and didn't sign. As we have just moved to the US we never have credit history so we believe we need to buy the car with cash. Since we just moved from oversea we really needed a car so we decided to take the car but we had to wait one week for the money to get transferred from Europe. They asked us to signed the buying contract which was done on Jan 20 in order for them to keep the car for us until we get money. Jan 27 we took delivery of the car. We got 30 days warranty or 1000 miles. We didn't know about the 1000 miles which is our own mistake as we didn't check the TRUE mileage and they simply put the mileage recorded on Jan 2 when the car was inspected (25 days before delivery of the car) also the delivery date on it was Jan 20. We asked them to make correction the guy said don't worry about it we know you we will fix it for you. (I knew I shouldn't believe that!! but we were tired of all this car buying as we have 2 years old girl with us all the time and want to just get it done) 2 weeks later the car has problem with the sliding door.. it took them 1 week to get it fixed. 5 days after we got the car back the transmission failed. They said it cost 4,500 to get it fixed!!!! They said the car was driven 1,100 miles and already exceed the warranty which they calculate based on the mileage read on Jan 2 and not when the car was delivered which is 25 days later!! I spoke to the sales manager who kept lying that he will do this and do that to help us and he will get back to me. He NEVER call me even once. I called him 8 times within 1 week and finally got to talk to him. He didn't do anything at all. He kept lying and sweet talk. They don't take any responsibility at all. I BELIEVE THEY REALLY CHEAT US TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM OVERSEA NOT KNOWING THEIR TRICK.. COME WITH CASH..THEY SELL OFF..AND KEEP THEIR HANDS OFF. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO STAY AWAY FROM THIS DEALER. THEY WASTED OUR TIME, ENERGY, FEELING, AND MONEY. :sick:
"...TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM OVERSEA..."
Sometimes, they take advantage of people who were born here too. Next time make sure everything is in writing before you sign. When money is involved you can't even trust your grandmother. If it isn't in writing it is not legally binding.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Do you want to know what dealership's use to appraise a trade-in?
MANHEIM!
Look them up. They are the largest auction service in the world. Dealerships rely on them for current market values. Manheim keeps track of everything sold thru their auctions. This information is supplied to car dealership's if they have a account with them. Most do if they are smart.
You will have to find a way to be privy to a Manheim Vehicle Report. There are ways. Unfortunetly, in order to subscribe to manheim, you must have a dealers license.
look at car buying like it's a war! Us(the consumers) vs Them
So you are saying if you come to my dealership and we cant agree I can shoot you? War and a car deal are nothing alike.
I hate that as much as when I hear a sports team say it like a war out there, or we are going to battle. Save that distinction for the brave men and women who signed a blank check payable with there lifes.
Comments
That is twice as many as I have in real life
I took a few moments to tell the whole story on my Blog.
Joel's Blog and how he fixed it
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Ok, I have nothing better to do today at work, so I'll take a quick stab...
http://www.carspace.com/blogs/Bloglets/
So, who's next?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
http://www.carspace.com/blogs/nthe/
sry i couldn't make it more interesting......
Oh take your time to fill it in - but please understand it's not compulsory!
I thought it would be fun.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I have this question, which seems to be of some concern
I met this guy that supposedly builds the longest and biggest limos in the world and I was going to do sales for him and he said anyone that gets him a sale of a limo or whatever gets 10%
This was last month when we met
So a few weeks he sends over this lead who is an electric motor inventor.
The guy is looking for sponsorships but I was pitching a corvette limo for $80,000 after the guy told me his budget was $100,000
He comes back and says he was confused, that he was looking for sponsorship.
So I sent the lead back to the limo guy and the next day or so he emails me saying the guy called and bought a limo and that I get $500.
So I got to thinking about this deal and I can't find a limo that costs $5000 that gives me my $500 commission.
So he tells me:
I MARK THE LIMOS UP $5,000 SO YOU MAKE 10% of my profit which is $500.00
(some limos are bigger like double or triple commish, this means you make 2 or 3 times that commish.
These limos range from the low $20,000's to hundreds of thousands
I've never heard of anyone in any industry making commission off sales from any product in the 17 years I've been in the sales field.
Is this a normal deal?
Because I feel cheated when the guy said he pays 10% and then when the sale comes, says its from his profit.
when you go to an electronics store and you buy a computer for $1000 from Joe the salesman
He doesnt make 10% of the profit of that product
He makes a percentage off the sales price
10% of that sale is $100
If he made a percentage off the profit, why would he work there?
To get 20 bucks?
When I sold health products for 2 years over the phone and sold a $500 package I made $120 that took me 15 minutes on the avg
That was at least 18-36% of the sale
Not of the profit
HE SAID:
Look, i don't have a gun to anyones head. if you like, then stay, if you dont, then go. look a good sale man can make 5 sales per week, that is 2500.00, if you don't like this, then sales are not for you.
PS tell the people that the hype is the real deal, tell them to read my bio, then SPEAK!
If I sold the car for $50,000 and I get only $500 that's 1%
Is that fair?
the limos I sell are other peoples limos. if they want 50k, I sell it for 55k this is 5k to the company, 500.00 to the sales cat, I have 30k per month in bills and advertisement, I need 8 sales to break even.
Alan your a potential millionaire, and you don't even know it! if you take this amount of energy and put it into my limo sales, (I have 16,000.00 now) and try and suit them up for a limo of their wishes, you will make BANK!
supply & deman
I have the supply, and I have the demand, I simply don't have the manpower! if I can have 10 of you, and keep you focused on my leads, and forget about everything else in life (But your loved ones) I will make you mega$$$$
and your question is?
Anyways, in car sales, you get a percentage of the profit, not of the selling price, and that is the norm.
It ranges anywhere usually from 20% to 40% depending on dealership, brand, and how many vehicles you sell.
If you agree to something, you should have a contract and have your pay plan written out so you both know what to expect.
Good luck.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
thats what he said
it is Limo Bob
Many of the limo's he has are repos
In car sales, that's how it is though. You get apid on the profit, nto on the selling price.
And sometimes yes, you might sell a $50000 ride and make $500 on it.
Good luck.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
10% of selling price? I'd work part time, and be on vacation every month.
Wishful thinking
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I've never heard of by the profit
It just doesnt seem much for such a large amt
I read somewhere that GM pays 5%
and he has this mercedes limo that looks like a caddy that needs paint and he asked me if i knew of a body shop that i could make $200 from $2000
He's supposedly been in the industry 35 yrs
http://limobob.com
No car dealer that I ever heard of or knew pays a percentage of commission based on the selling price alone. It's all paid on profit.
As for GM, it depends what dealer you work at as every one has a different pay plan, and many times one dealership may have salespeople with different pay plans too.
Once again the norm in the car biz is that you get a percentage of the profit. If you don't think it will work for you then you should renegotiate with him.
Plus posting a link of his business will not change the fact that that's how car sales work.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
i just wanted to know because it seemed kinda low for such a big amt
i guess anything these days is better than nothing
lol
as far as link
just wanted to give the reference
You get paid on Gross Profit not Net Sales.
it was around $50,000
so w hen he said 10% I thought he meant from the purchase price
He adds $5000 to the price and then pays from that
Therefore giving $500
fair?
Again, what he's is doing sounds completely normal. If you don't like it, just go sell some cars. I would imagine that it would be a steadier income.
-moo
ALL salespeople get paid on the PROFIT they generate.
Regardless of the cost of the car.
10% is on the low side though.
Most commission plans are near the 20% range.
I'd see if you can't maybe negotiate in a unit bonus or something.
my expertise is promoting
i promoter models and entertainers and some orgs and now limo bob and exotic limos
its fun
Alan
http://myspace.com/biglimobob
http://onlinevoices.org
http://miracles-of-hope.com
Now if you talk to most sales folks they will tell you not to expect KBB or NADA trade-in value for your ride. "Mr. Kelly doesn't write you a check for your car." Sound familiar?
So how come dealers in my area price their cars 2K higher than these guides say is full retail? This represents a 30% to 40% bump over auction value (which is what you usually get offered for your trade).
And these aren't cream puffs either. I'm talking miled-up Buicks and old Camarys 6cyl. for thousands above any book.
I don't blame any business for trying for all the money they can make but is there really anyone out there who would pay premium prices for old rentals with bad Carfaxs?
Is there a logic I'm missing here?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If used car lots price themselves out of the market then they'll suffer. And yes once in a while someone will pay full pop for one of these high milers.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
And try to make it up on the next customer. That must make for a tough sell as you limit how much you can give up.
"...If used car lots price themselves out of the market..."
This is where I don't see the logic. If you price way over market won't you be sitting on inventory for a longer period of time? Doesn't this cost money?
Pricing above KBB and NADA Retail (which are usually above market) seems like it would turn off a lot of potential customers who are smart enough to do a little research.
Maybe there are more dumb or lazy buyers out there than I thought.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You can say that again. Years ago, before I discovered the internet I was looking at a car that was priced at 9K. The only source I checked was the NADA guide at the library.
NADA said full retail was $7700 and wholesale was about 1K less. I offered $6500 and the salesman acted like I just kicked his dog. He took me aside and in his best fatherly voice told me that he wouldn't waste my time and that $7700 was the best he could do.
When I mentioned that his price was full retail he acted as if the dog was now dead. "Those books don't keep track of what cars are worth" he snorted." There's no way I can sell for less".
A few days later I called back and raised my offer a few hundred. My salesman wasn't there but the Sales Manager immediately accepted with a surprised tone of voice indicating that I'd paid too much.
In the end I got the price down about 18-20%. From what I've learned since, I estimate they made about a 13% profit over what they had in the car.
I think I would have preferred to just pay the 13% and be done. As it was they very nearly lost the sale.
I don't mean this to be insulting to sales people but this process reminds me of the guy in the bar who makes an insulting proposition to every girl and if he gets lucky with one out of a hundred feels his technique is working. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
There actually is a very good reason for pricing a car at Kelley retail.
A couple actually.
1 Most consumers expect large discounts on cars nowadays. So, being able to show a $4 or $5 thousand dollar discount,instead of only a couple grand has real benefit.
2 Sometime, people are upside down in their trades(imagine that). Having a lot of room in your price means you can show more for a trade in.
3 There is another adage, if you don't ask, you don't get. People do flop sometimes for your price. U/C profits are really the last area of proftability left in the selling of cars.
Remember, the market isn't geared for the smart carbuyer. There simply aren't enough of them out there. It is geared for the AVERAGE carbuyer.
I've never seen the Black Book figures. Isn't that by subscription only?
Even NADA and KBB state that their dealer retail is the "asking price" from which the dealer is willing to go down. That's why I assume they are always higher than Edmunds TMV which is suposed to be based on actual prices paid.
My original post was commenting on the fact that in my area dealer prices are 2K or more HIGHER than NADA or KBB. I was puzzeled by the logic of this and still am. Volvomax explained the dealers viewpoint very well. I guess salespeople are eternal optimists.
As to what dealers are willing to pay for trade-ins I can understand why they would be reluctant to pay more for my trade-in than for a similar car at the auction except where they have to over pay a little to make the deal.
That's one of the reasons I keep my cars until they are scrap.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yes, it is.
My original post was commenting on the fact that in my area dealer prices are 2K or more HIGHER than NADA or KBB. I was puzzeled by the logic of this and still am. Volvomax explained the dealers viewpoint very well. I guess salespeople are eternal optimists.
Not necessarily optimists, just experienced in the ways of selling cars
What makes you think you're so special? I'm sure they treat everyone this way.
Sounds like you got a piece of junk for a vehicle. Sorry to hear about that. How much did you pay?
I would ask for a sit down meeting with the General Manager. Be polite but stick to the issues.
Then there is Small Claims Court if you think you've been wronged. The judge will listen to BOTH sides of the story and make a decision.
Sometimes, they take advantage of people who were born here too. Next time make sure everything is in writing before you sign. When money is involved you can't even trust your grandmother. If it isn't in writing it is not legally binding.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yes and no...I found the Black values on the Internet. Just about EVERYTHING is available on the Net...you just gotta know how to search
The values are just what the dealer's have because I used them a couple of years ago..dealer was stumpped on how I knew so much.
I look at car buying like it's a war! Us(the consumers) vs Them...you better be prepared because rest assure they are!!!!
The market can change so quickly that last week's actual results are what a lot of places use now.
Most stores look at current auction results to find out what the cars are REALLY worth.
When someone is trading a car, or trying to sell their car to us and wants a certain number we always check what we can get it for at the auction.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Do you want to know what dealership's use to appraise a trade-in?
MANHEIM!
Look them up. They are the largest auction service in the world. Dealerships rely on them for current market values. Manheim keeps track of everything sold thru their auctions. This information is supplied to car dealership's if they have a account with them. Most do if they are smart.
You will have to find a way to be privy to a Manheim Vehicle Report. There are ways. Unfortunetly, in order to subscribe to manheim, you must have a dealers license.
Good Luck,
Michael
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
So you are saying if you come to my dealership and we cant agree I can shoot you? War and a car deal are nothing alike.
I hate that as much as when I hear a sports team say it like a war out there, or we are going to battle. Save that distinction for the brave men and women who signed a blank check payable with there lifes.
How much more?
The hosts do a fairly good job here for getting rid of spam. Thanks hosts.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX