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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)
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Comments
Oh, I get it... which car did C/D want to win the comparo, is that what you are implying?
Edmunds.com comparison tests historically have left me much more perplexed than this one, though they've gotten better as of late. Still, the scoring is whacky.
~alpha
I get it, you are implying that you did not want the VW to win and would have prefered the Jetta to be tested as it would be less likely to win.
If so, did you cross shop Corolla, Elantra, Sentra, etc. before you purchased?
Mitsubishi seems to have faded from the minds of car shoppers.
With a self-imposed "limit" of 18k, there's no way they could have gotten a Mazda3 hatch to test, even stretching things as they did.
Probably because vehicle like the Lancer look dated when they debut. Honestly, can you tell me that the Lancer looks like a fresh design compared to these?
Lancer
Mazda 3
To me, the Lancer doesn't look any newer than this 13 year old Honda sedan. It's a dated looking design because of its very square flanks. The new pointy nose doesn't exactly flatter the car either, IMO.
Is 120 hp the lowest in the class now?
The only ones I can think of near that would be 126 hp (Corolla) and Focus (136 hp).
I doubt the ancient Focus and mediocre Cobalt would've faired much better than the Sentra or Corolla.
I have seen a few spy pictures (on the web, and in magazines) of the supposed next generation Lancer, and it does appear to share several design cues with those of the next generation Evo (which pictures of the next gen Evo are all over the web). In my opinion, the pictures I have seen of the next gen Lancer, remind me of the previous generation Galant (that was pretty successful), only more aggressive looking. Depending on what they offer for powerplants for the Lancer, and what they offer for standard/optional features, it may be worth a look.
Now that the new Outlander is out - I think that if Mitsubishi would "clean up" the looks of the current Galant and refine it a little, offer an AWD turbo 4cyl version of the Eclipse (and drop the V-6), redesign the Endeavor to make it a little larger with more off road capability (especially now that the Montero has been discontinued), bring out the next gen Lancer and Evo, and DROP THE RAIDER all together, they would see an increase in their sales.
I wandered over to Mitsu dealer and looked around and I my feelings are that they have a pretty decent product line.
Not as attractive as Toyota or Honda and better than Dodge, Kia or Chevrolet. Excluding trucks of course.
The Lancer may be an old design, however, I would take it over a Cobalt any day.
Interesting to note that the Nissan Sentra (pre-2007) was listed as one of the "least reliable" vehicles in it's latest reliability survey.
Hmmm...
Sure, there are about 5 or 6 competing vehicles I'd buy first, but I'd put the Cobalt over the Mitsu.
~alpha
I'm pretty sure I would too.
I'd put the Cobalt over the Lancer if only because I think Chevy will be around awhile, and I'm not so sure about Mitsubishi--at least in the U.S.
Unfortunately, I've driven it extensively. Several of them.
My problems with Cobalt-
Horrible fit and finish on exterior panels. (Uneven fit between body panels)
Uncomfortable seats.
Cheap looking interior. (hard plastics, unatractive texture of the hard plastics, lousy fabrics, poor fit and finish)
Very cheap feeling action of the switches/control stalks.
Noisy engine.
Noisy interior.
Overall crappy interior ergonomics.
Sloppy handling and the thunks and thumps and other noises from road imperfections were unforgivable. It neither handles well nor rides decently on anything other than a glass smooth road.
Add to that the fact that it has the worst reliability of any current small car and you have a terrible car that likely sends buyers running away from GM as fast as they can when Cobalt owners buy their next vehicle.
As to prices, I just checked (Carmax Kenosha) a comparably equipped Corolla LE compared to a Cobalt LT and the Cobalt is only $1,000 less than the Corolla. Best $1000 you could ever spend to buy the Corolla.
Cobalt :sick: and the Lordstown, OH :sick: assembly are shining examples of all that ails GM. GM :sick: should be ashamed.
As to the Lancer, yes the styling is outdated and it does not hold a candle to the Civic or Mazda 3, yet it is still IMO a better car than Cobalt and Caliber too.
No, it was "COMPARED: SIX $18,000 FUEL-SIPPING SEDANS", smack dab on the cover of the magazine.
I don't know if people are "sore" about this gaffe by C/D. More like, "Gee, if you set out to compare sedans that cost under $18k, why not actually do that?" And save the Rabbit for a comparo of economy hatchbacks. Because it's a hatchback. Not a sedan.
P.S. You can get a Mazda3s sedan under $18k quite easily; it's called the Mazda3s Sport. Since it was a comparo of sedans under $18k, that's the model that should have been used IMO.
P.P.S. Do you realize the base Jetta costs less than the base Rabbit 4-door?
They are upset that a VW Rabbit took 1st place. If Rabbit finished last it would not be an issue.
Actually, I have more of a problem with them calling the Rabbit an "Economy" car in the first place, considering it gets worse mileage than a much larger, 118 more horsepower, vehicle. The VW isn't a fuel sipper relative to the compeition, but instead, it drinks gas likes it is dehydrated.
C'mon, 22 MPG? That's no economy car. That's Crossover SUV mileage.
The savings in depreciation you gain by driving the Rabbit will more than offset the ~$200/yr you might save driving the Elantra.
Buy the car you enjoy driving the most, not the car with "promised" fuel savings.
Still not a good excuse when cars with 100+ more horsepower are getting better mileage estimates than the smaller Rabbit.
I average 30 MPG in my Accord (mixed suburban driving), with similar power, and a much larger interior.
My point, is that the Rabbit isn't ecnomical compared with others in its class, power or not. My point ISN'T that it is a poor automobile.
I would think that a large number of people who shop small cars don't shop because they want a little car, but because they like the mileage increase that comes with the downsize, as well as the lower entry price (I say this b/c my people like grandparents like Civics because they are cheaper to buy and maintain (including fuel cost)than larger cars; NOT because they wanted a small car).. The Rabbit doesn't deliver on the mileage front.
The Rabbit averaged 24 MPG, the Civic averaged 33 MPG. 9 extra miles on a gallon is a lot when you drive 25,000 miles a year, and are on a budget.
And the Honda isn't going to depreciate like a Hyundai. Also keep in mind, that the Hyundai has a lower entry price, so you save a good deal of cash up front.
If 7.7 sec to 60 MPH isn't fast enough for you, you should be driving a sports car. For me, 7.7 sec to 60 MPH combined with 30/40 MPG sounds pretty darn good.
By the way, we all get it by now; you hate Hyundai. That's been established long before in earlier posts.
You are right, the Accord's 2.4 is smaller, but no less powerful than the Rabbit; it weighs more as well (3,200 lbs vs. about 3,000 for VW).
I realize that many VW faithful will never change their mind,nor will many Honda faithful. And I really wasn't trying to get that to happen.
My simple point is, and has been, that the Rabbit doesn't get great mileage when compared to others in its size class, including those with simlar acceleration. The weight is just a self-induced penalty, IMO. It weighs like a midsize, but has room like a compact, and in exact testing conditions, the EPA says combined the Rabbit will get mid 20s, while the Civic will get mid 30s.
If you want a hatch though, there is no Civic for you (only the miniscule Fit). Glad you are happy with your bunny!
I can't help but wonder how the Rabbit would perform with the Honda drivetrain in it...
The Jetta starts well under $18k, very well equipped. Don't take my word for it, see for yourself. Thank you.
I don't think the rabbit would perform very well with a honda drivetrain, i think they make some of the best engines ever, but the vee dub needs some torque. Any mileage benefits would be counteracted by the weight. Ofcourse i'm thinking of a honda engine in a comparable car (like the civic) being put in it. Stick the accords engine in it and it would be a little slower, (slightly i would imagine) but have a bit better mileage than it has now.
It was nice to see an article about economy cars and I was happy to see both of our cars included. We're very satisfied with them and feel that we have very reliable & fun transportation. Was also impressed with the Elantra and liked everything about it except the old looking dash. Electroluminescent gauges like on the Corolla would give the Elantra that "wow" factor as far as I'm concerned. Would also have given it a more upscale feeling also. Maybe in the 4th year tweaking Hyundai might include this feature.
The Sandman
Maybe; I'd look for it in the Sonata next (the Azera Limited is currently the only Hyundai with these type of gauges).
Civic evokes memories of 1980's K-Car electronic talking dashes. I was never so unfortunate to own an 80's K-Car, though I did drive a few of them.
Enjoy your rides folks...I know I do. Good luck and G-d bless folks.
The Sandman...signing off.
How are "traditional gauges" better?
Overly sculpted dash panel, near-and-far instrument layout
The driver looks out over a ridiculous landscape
I hate everything but the way it drives
They also compared the Civic's cockpit to a "space capsule."
Compared to these, saying the dash looks like something out of a low-budget space opera seems pretty tame to me. :surprise:
I happen to dislike the new Civic. The dash indeed looks like it's from a bad sci-fi movie, and looks just as big as the dash from the "dustbuster" Lumina APV. The windshield hangs out way too far over the hood, and it throws the entire car out of proportion. I like how it looks from the back, but as I walk toward the front, it slowly gets worse.
But again, it's all IMHO.
For my $$$, I'd take the Mazda3.
I love the civics dash. And there are more real world people who think so than a couple of forum goers who don't.
Sorry sandman. See ya later.