BMW 3-Series Lease Questions

konacoug · November 2013

Looks like a solid deal to me....however, how much out of pocket besides the MSD's are you doing? Also what is the residual on your build. Are you rolling in any fees into the lease? I can then use a calculator to figure it out.

kyfdx · November 2013

2013 328iXdrive Sedan 36mo, 15K/yr lease
.00125 MF and 56% residual
$2000 of buildout cash and $500 loyalty.

regards,
kyfdx

kshah85 · November 2013

56% residual for the build. This quote has tax and all fees up front ($725 bank fee, $369 doc fee, $310.50 MV Fee, Tire tax $6.00 and 7% tax). I was wondering if the quote just appears to be good since I am putting up the fees and tax up front. Thanks.

storms3 · November 2013

Hi,

Im looking for 2013 328i lease rate for 24 month/10k per year

Thanks.

kyfdx · November 2013

I think you've already asked me that, this month...

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef9d9c7/5532#MSG5532

konacoug · November 2013

It looks correct with the residual and numbers you provided to me. I ran it through a lease calculator and I come up with $417 per month. So, close enough, if you are paying all your fees up front, including the taxes.

It is too bad the residual is so low, it is making your payment higher. But, BMW sets that, so no getting out of it. Good luck, enjoy your new car.

randyjs · November 2013

Thanks for details!!

airkitt · November 2013

Hi:

I am considering another 328i lease after my current offer expires. The offer at hand is as follows; could you let me know if this is a good deal. Thanks for your help.

2013 328i AWD
Cold weather and premium packages
12k miles/year
MSRP $45,025
Residual .58
Money factor .00145
Sell price $40,000
Doc fee $75
Acq Fee $925
Lease: $480/36 months

konacoug · November 2013

This is not a good deal for a 2013!! The sell price is okay, not great. But, they have marked up the acquisition fee by $200 and the money factor up from .00125. You need to insist on the base mf of .00125. You pay an extra dollars each month on the lease interest.

I would also recommend you consider using MSD's, Multiple Security Deposits. For each MSD, it lowers the mf by .0007. You are allowed a max of 7, for a total .00049. This will effectively lower your monthly payment about $40 per month. Best of all, at the end of your lease, your MSD's are returned to you.
BTW, I would also shoot for another grand off the price.

nyccarguy · November 2013

As long as he's not in NY where you cannot do MSD for some reason. If he lives in NY & leases from a neighboring state (NJ or CT) he can lower his payment via MSDs. But in NJ & CT (as well as MA, PA, & I'm not sure about VT), doc fees are not capped @ $75 like they are in NY.

randyjs · November 2013

Seeking 2013 active hybrid 3 lease numbers for MF and residuals? Also what incentives currently apply?

rayray209 · November 2013

What do you guys think? Is this a deal? This includes loyalty, usaa, and options allowance.

2014 328i Sedan + M Sport + Nav + lighting + moonroof + sport auto trans
MSRP: $46,325

Term 36 Months
Mileage 10,000/year
Money Factor 0.76
Residual Factor 61%

Selling Price $40,920.00

Total Capitalized Cost
$40,920.00
Monthly Payment$375.75
Tax (8.5%)$31.94

Monthly Payment + Tax $407.69

Capital Reduction$1,000.00
Cap Reduction Tax (8.5%)$153.42
License & Registration$401.00
Bank Fee$725.00
Documentation Fee$80.00
First Payment$407.69
Mul. Security Deposit$3,150.00

Drive Off$5,917.12

Trade Equity$0.00
Rebate$1,000.00

Due at Signing$4,917.12

randyjs · November 2013

Got numbers if anyone is interested... MF .00125 53% Residual at 12k/yr

Quoted from a dealer and holding the following vehicle for me:

2013 - ActiveHybrid 3 - Dealer Loaner car with 8k miles on it.
MSRP: 61,220 Sport, Tech, Cameras, Xenon, Premium, HK Sound, Cold weather, Storage....
Sale Price: 42,871
Loyalty: 500 applied as cap cost reduction.
MSD's takes MF to .00076

Payment: $363/mo including tax - Thoughts on this vehicle and price???

Any other wiggle room? Perhaps turn key, eco, etc?

kyfdx · November 2013

Are you making a Cap cost reduction or do you have a trade? Because I don't see how they are getting the payment that low.

I wonder if they calculated the residual without taking a reduction for the extra miles already on the car?

Or is there another incentive that isn't reflected in the selling price?

In other words, that's a great price.

regards,
kyfdx

randyjs · November 2013

No cap cost reduction. The price they are selling the car to me is very low because it was a fleet vehicle or an executive demo. I am not trading anything or putting anything toward a cap cost reduction. I believe the dealer is putting 500 of loyalty toward cap cost reduction. Residual is based on original MSRP - as the car had never been titled to anyone so the dealer can lease it to me NEW in their system but charge me a used car price.

My question: does the 2013 active hybrid have any other eco credits, option allowance, etc... that the dealer might be able to pass along to me?

kyfdx · November 2013

Even an untitled BMW has to have a residual adjustment if it has over 500 miles. That number used to be $0.15/mi. over 500, but the last I saw it was $0.30/mile.. (MSRP X .53) minus (7500 X $0.30) = residual, for example.

$3500 eco credit, $2000 buildout and $500 loyalty... But, at that selling price, I'd say they are all probably factored in, already..

Did they quote you $363/mo? What is your "due at signing" amount?

regards,
kyfdx

randyjs · November 2013

They actually quoted me 414/mo including 9% tax, .00125MF 53% residual. This does not include my MSD's and Loyalty. When factoring in 500 toward cap cost reduction for my loyalty and MSD's reducing MF to .00076, I come up with a payment of $363/mo - does this make sense?

Due at signing would be:

Acq 725
Doc Fee 131 (seems high)
Registration Fees 78
First month Payment

I am assuming that eco and build have been included already in the sell price. Just wanted to see if I have any other power for negotiation. The doc fee sees high, I may also ask them to include all weather mats in the car. I know there are other "hidden" incentives on moving 2013 3 series right now, do you have any perspective on that? Trying to get all my ducks in a row to do battle with the dealer later! I appreciate your attention and help!!!

kyfdx · November 2013

I have no other information on incentives.. Dealers have all sorts of special demo/loaner programs, but we probably will never know all of it..

I'll just say this: That deal looks extremely aggressive, and if you can get $40-$50 more per month knocked off by doing MSDs, then I'd jump on it and never look back.... assuming that is the car you want..

regards,
kyfdx

randyjs · November 2013

Done deal, picking up the car tomorrow...

2013 ActiveHybrid 3 with 8k miles on it...
MSRP 61,220
Sale: 42,294

MF .00125-.00049= .00076 12k/yr and 53% residual

Due at signing:
725 Acquisition
131 Doc Fee
~50 Title transfer
~2800 MSDs (fully refundable at lease end)

Payment: $365.97/mo

kyfdx · November 2013

Congrats! That's a steal.

randyjs · November 2013

Thanks Kyfdx - all your help was appreciated...

joealize · November 2013

Hi all! I'm finally making the jump to BMW and would love a little help seeing if I have gotten a good lease deal. Here's the info:

MSRP: 43,545
Negotiated price: 39,000
BMW Cash: -2000
USAA Cash: -500
Final Price: 36,500
Money down: 0
MSD's: 0
MF: .00125
Residual: 59%
Term: 36 months
Monthly pymnt $479
up front charges: $1,355

I am having trouble making the numbers work out. Seems like my monthly payment should be lower. They mentioned a $725 acquisition fee and a $799 dealer fee. plus tag fees...

What do you guys think?

-Joe

joealize · November 2013

Oh, and 10,000 miles per year

kyfdx · November 2013

Yeah... to see what they are really charging you, you need to know the Net Cap Cost..... Does that Cap cost include the acquisition fee and the dealer fee? What else is in there? How much is the sales tax? etc, etc..

$799 dealer fee?? You must be in Florida..

space_gray · November 2013

Does anyone have the residual and MF for F31s? Looking for 24 and 36 mos. Thanks.

konacoug · November 2013

What year is this vehicle 13 or 14? Also, the $799 dealer fee is total crap, pure profit for the dealer. I have never seen a fee as high as that. What area of the country are you in? For example in SoCal, it is one of the best markets for deals.

Every deal has the acquisition fee of $725 for leases. If this is a 2013 model, which I think it is....based on your numbers, the cap cost seems okay. But, I would not pay that $799 dealer fee. Also, be wary of all the warranty and hazard stuff they try to sell you in finance. Don't buy any of it. They use scare tactics, remember insurance is the most profitable industry in the US.

arai30 · November 2013

Hi konacoug
I'm a first time leaser. In fact a first time purchaser. My current car was my brother's.
I am in the PHX area too and have been reading some of your very informative posts here.

I am looking at a 2014 328i sport package, tech, lighting (and I'd love to add an upgraded sound system) and the numbers I'm seeing are not great. In fact right now the sales person hasnt even given me all these figures, just MSRP, final sales price and monthly payment!

I am going to try the scottsdale chapman this weekend. Do you think it makes sense to drive down to Pacific BMW in LA trade in my car and get a car from there?

Also, I am thinking of a lease to buy, not just lease and lease and lease... Is that sensible? I think about losing the opportunity of the 4th year's warranty, a good deal on extended 2 year maintenance, etc.

You see I am a noob. Any advice is helpful.

TIA!

kyfdx · November 2013

2014 328xd Wagon 36mo, 15K/yr lease
.00125 MF and 58% residual

24 month residual is 64%

regards,
kydx

konacoug · November 2013

I would definitely contact Greg at Pacific BMW. Email him with your build and get the numbers from him. I wouldn't include your trade in, unless he specifically asks you about it. First look up your car's trade in value on KBB and even go to car max and obtain a written offer.

I have the HK sound system and I think it is worth it, at $875, figuring you are only paying 40% of the cost during the lease.

Honestly, going down to the dealer is the worst thing you can do. You would be much better served to email them and stay at arms length.

Finally, use the lease calculator on Edmunds and plug in the numbers they give you. Insist on Money factor, acquisition fee, residual and any other fees. In other words, make them show you the total deal.

Don't put money down to decap the lease. It is ok to pay the drive offs. Consider using MSD's, I am sure you have been reading about them. Finally, it is ok to purchase at the lease end, but usually it really isn't all that advantageous. I would recommend,( as I plan to do, on my next BMW} Go for European Delivery, you will save a ton and get to see the BMW plant and drive around Europe. Let me know if I can help any further.

Aloha

arai30 · November 2013

Hey konacoug,

Thanks for all the tips.
For a 2014 328i I've been offered.
MF: .00125
Residual: 61%
32month/ 10k miles.

These figures do look similar to what I am seeing in the forum here. Looks good?

I am yet to get the exact or close build I am looking for. The current has a couple of options I dont really need, pumping up the price.

The Cap cost is already ~6k less than MSRP.
MSRP: 48900 ( includes $200 less for pre 10/2013 car)
Cap Cost: 42945.
Lic.Reg+Bank+Doc fee: 414+725+80 (due at drive off with 1st month payment)

Monthly: 455.30+tax.

I feel its a bit on the higher side.
This doesnt include MSD.

I am not thinking of Euro Del cos I dont think I would have the time to work out a visa, etc. ( I am not a US citizen)

TIA

zgcorbin · November 2013

Kona/kfdx,

Hi, I am looking at leasing a 328i in Texas. Could you please give MF and RV for a 36/15k in Texas? I've read a lot in this thread and it looks like the MF should be .00125 and then I will buy it down with MSD. Should the MF and RV by the same on both new 2013 and 2014 models? There are plenty of both to choose from.

Lastly, what is this EU delivery? I assume you would then have to ship the car overseas. Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing more.

Thanks!

kyfdx · November 2013

2013 328i Sedan 36mo, 15K/yr lease
.00125 MF and 56% residual. $2000 buildout cash, $500 lease loyalty

2014 328i Sedan
.00125 MF and 58% residual. $750 option credit cash. $500 lease loyalty.

You can get a discount by taking Euro Delivery of a BMW, but then, you have to pay for a trip to Europe. It makes a lot of sense, if you plan on working it around a European vacation, but if that doesn't interest you, then the savings may not be worth it.. (BMW arranges the shipping... that part is inconsequential)

regards,
kyfdx

zgcorbin · November 2013

Thanks!

space_gray · November 2013

thanks.

konacoug · November 2013

Is this a 32 month lease or 36 month lease? I have not seen a 32 month lease before. Your numbers seem okay for the cap cost of the car. I am looking at your post, is this a 2013 car? The numbers make sense to me. Are you getting this local in AZ or traveling to California?

arai30 · November 2013

Hey Kona,

Thanks for responding.
36 month lease. 32 was a typo. I apologize.
This is a 2014 car. But pre 10/2013, so it gives a small discount.
This is from CA. I will drive down and pick it up.
I was told they can handle AZ registration and fees. Didnt mention it would cost extra. Bimmerfest has a post on this, but no clear answer.

The reason I feel the numbers are a little off is because I plugged them into the Edmunds and leasuguide's lease calculator and the monthly result didnt match. Maybe I am doing something wrong.

Does conquest cash apply? I drive an Infiniti now.

Thanks a bunch!

ak123456 · November 2013

So this would have been a great resource before I leased my vehicle (2013 BMW 328i xDrive). I was wondering why they were "so" pro-lease, but now I know...they made a bunch more money (off of me at least) than if I had purchased the vehicle.

I found a vehicle in September and negotiated about $7500 off the MSRP ($41,825). Then the lease issue came up (I trade cars often and thought this may be the way to go). These are the final numbers...that the dealer sent me;

Vehicle: 35325
Sat. radio: 375
Automate: 399
Lease wear: 880
Club Plus: 1385
Total: 38364

First payment: 556
Admin: 199
License: 37
Total: 675

Total: 39039 which is the gross cap cost.

Monthly paymebnt is $556.00

Plus acquisition fee of 925 for a total of 39964. This is the total cost if I decided to buy the car at the end of the term which after all products and fees is still over 2k under msrp. Your true cost for this vehicle is your 35 remaining payments x $556.39 which equals $19,473 for the entire three years. So based on the msrp 41825 car it depreciates 47% over three years.

I hope this helps, again you got an awesome price on the vehicle. Invoice is $38,810 on this car this was a 3485 loser...plus the 500 rebate plus the 117. So you leased this for $4300+ under invoice and almost 7500 off of msrp.

I was under the impression that if you had excellent credit that you would receive the best rate on the MF (.00125). I wasn't aware that the dealer was allowed to raise it, which they did, to .00165. they also added the extra $200 to the acquisition fee too...once again I was an idiot for not researching these items prior to the purchase.

I was also an idiot for purchasing the extra packages too...I am in the process of rectifying that.

My question is this. I have run the numbers through the various lease calculators using the gross cap cost, MF, residual (which I was told was 58%), 36 month, 12,000 miles, and I don't get the amount I am paying. The tax rate here is about 7%.

My heartburn is two fold...first with myself for not being more educate (won't happen again), the second is the way the dealership did not even offer the fact that you could make multiple security deposits to lower the MF. I look at it like this. I have bought four houses and every single time the loan officer offered ways to reduce the payment either through down payments or by buying points. I believe that a dealership has an obligation to do the same...

If anyone can help me see how they came up with the $556/month payment with the figures I have please let me know.

zgcorbin · November 2013

Wow. Sorry to hear this, but it is dealership 101. I am also new to leasing and am doing my research to see if it makes sense. I went to a dealer and got a quote on a demo (trying to get the best deal possible) and the lease rate on the original quote they gave me is $100 higher payment per month WITH $2500 down than it would be with 0 MSDs and a MF of .00125 with NOTHING down! The tactic is to numb you upward so they can find ways to make money off of you.

I still don't get your numbers though... The MSRP vs vehicle price you listed are only $6500 apart, not $7500. Then, what are all of your other fees. BTW, I suspect your answers are in your final paperwork if you can handle looking. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure it's a humbling experience.

konacoug · November 2013

I feel your pain, you got totally hosed.... Dealers never offer the MSD's, at least not that I have seen. Basically, they made their money off you with all the extra crap they sold you, plus the high mf.

I get screwed on my first lease too back in 2005, but not quite as bad as you. If you can dump all of that crap, it will help your payment. I believe you have 30 days to remove it.

BTW, the reason that BMW is so pro lease, is not to screw the customers, but it is a good business model to get back low mileage cars back at lease end. BMW supports leasing with low money factors(oops, not in your case) and high residuals, making them very affordable.

I don't mean to put you down, we all make mistakes. Learn from this experience, join BMWCCA and next time you will be prepared.

Good luck

seriouslyandy · November 2013

I've leased before but I'm researching a deal on a demo car (which I've never considered before) that is making my head spin, so I thought I'd see if I can get some advice. I was reaching out to dealers (out of boredom mostly) to see if there were any options for trading in my current lease 14 months early. 3 dealers said no, way too early, but one came back with an appealing offer for a demo car, less miles, more features, lower payment. Is it stupid to do this deal even though I'll get a nicer, newer car with more features for a lower payment?

Current car:
2012 BMW 328i Coupe
11,400 miles (very low for almost 2 year old car)
MSRP $46K
$1000 down, $650/month

Potential demo car:
2013 BMW 328i sedan
5,500 miles
MSRP $53K
listed at $39K (just below Blue Book)
$1000 down, $625/month

Both leases are 10K miles and 36 months. I like the features on the demo car and it's slightly less expensive monthly. The fact that it's a demo car means it's already depreciated significantly and I can get out of my current car early. But if you look at it in absolute terms, it's a high payment for a "used" car. But it's a lease, so I don't have to worry about reselling and can walk away after the lease term. Gah. I'm confused. Please help.

kyfdx · November 2013

I wouldn't worry about it being used.... as you noted, it's a lease.. As long as the car is under 12 months old, it will be under warranty the whole time.

But, you need to verify the in-service date... ask them to print out the warranty expiration..

konacoug · November 2013

I think your monthly payment is a little high for a demo car. Are you rolling in negative equity into this lease? If you are not, then I would say, you payment is way too high. I should think it should be much lower, unless you have a low residual or a high money factor. You didn't provide that info, so it is really hard to tell and what is the capitalization cost of the demo to you?

smuggymba · December 2013

zgcorbin - Can you ask your salesperson to give me the same deal - exactly same

I'm in Houston, TX and in the market for a 3 series or an A4 and $462.00 sounds really good. I will get the loyalty discount but I don't qualify for the USAA rebate.

MSRP $47,275 (Sport pkg, Driver assist pkg, Premium pkg, + Nav)
Cap Costs $42,200
USAA Rebate -$500
BMW Loyalty -$500
MF .00125 - 7 MSD = .00076
36 month 15k/yr
0 down other than first payment and such
Payment $462 .

ncnyawker · December 2013

Kyfdx: could you tell me the December 15k residual and m.f. For 2013 328i and 2014 328i?

Thanks!

bimmercloud · December 2013

i received an offer for 0 down, 615/mo, 15k miles, 36mo on a 2014 x3 328i m sport. it was a dealer loaner and has 10k miles on it, but comes with the full warranty. does that sound right? any opinions on whether loaners=trouble?

ZMP M Sport Package
ZPP Premium Package
ZDA Driver Assistance Package
ZTP Technology Package
----
3AG Rear-view camera
508 Park Distance Control
ZLP Lighting Package
522 Xenon headlights
524 Adaptive light control
322 Comfort Access keyless entry
402 Panoramic moonroof
488 Lumbar support
655 Satellite radio with 1 year subscription
609 Navigation system
610 Head-up Display
6AK BMW Online
6AM Advanced Real-Time Traffic Information
6AP Remote Services
6NR BMW Apps
6NS Enhanced USB and Bluetooth plus Smartphone ...
337 M Sport Package
225Standard suspension
2A819" M light alloy double spoke wheels -...
2VG Performance Control
3ATRoof rails in Satin Aluminum
481 Sport seats
4CHFineline Wave Wood Trim
715 Aerodynamic kit
760 Shadowline exterior trim
775 Anthracite headliner
7XA M Sports leather steering wheel with paddle...
6UH Real Time Traffic Information
8S4 Variable Light Decoding

bimmercloud · December 2013

oops, wrong forum, but always open to advice!

sharkfighter · December 2013

Did anyone get a reply from the Kyfdx host as to December Residuals?

konacoug · December 2013

That is a lot of miles for a 2014 model. I also think the monthly payment is high for essentially a used car. With that, you don't provide enough info about the car...what is the MSRP, the invoice price, the money factor, the residual, doc fee, acquisition fee and any other fees.

I should think the leasing cap cost(the selling price) should be several thousand under invoice. As far as trouble, remember people drive these loaners with less care. However, it will be under warranty the whole time of the lease.

There are many moving parts to a lease and if you don't understand a BMW lease you are bound to be paying too much.

nc_driver1 · December 2013

Hi kyfdx,

I would appreciate if you could share the December MF/Residuals/Incentives for a 36mo/12k and 15k lease for the models above.

Thank you in advance.

storms3 · December 2013

would you mind sharing the dealer info?

Thanks

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