I'd shop elsewhere. Seems like they're trying to hold at least a $1000 deal. Not nearly good enough. Have you submitted an Edmunds dealer quote request? If not go ahead. I had a General Sales Manager leave me a voice mail yesterday. There are dealers that want to move cars. It automatically pulls up all the dealers in your area and allows you to select from this list which dealers get your request. As others have mentioned only correspond through email. The form asks for phone so just put in a bogus number or a number you never answer.
Just walked out of a dealership after their "best deal, we're not a Not For Profit" offer. Here is what they offered for an Accord LX 4-cyl w/ Auto @ 36 months, 12K miles & Zero down MSRP: $21,520 Cap Cost: $19675 Residual: $12696.80 (59%) MF: .00096 Acq Fee: $595 Payment: $242 (before taxes)
I was hoping to get around @ $210/mo. Am I being unreasonable?
When you say zero down do you mean no first payment, sec dep or acq fee? As they say "sign and drive"? Everything built into the lease? If so, and the 19,675.00 includes all this, then they are selling the car for 18575.00 or $1000 below invoice. They get $750.00 from Honda so it's only a $250.00 loser for them roughly.
With $750 manufacturer to dealer cash I used a selling price of $500 below invoice (leaving a dealer $250 + any hold back they may receive at model year end) and then added acq fee of 595.00 so only out of pocket would be first payment and refundable security deposit.
I made this comparison on an SE V6 with the following assumptions obtained from this forum:
24 mo 15k mile residual is 69% and .0009 MF 36 mo 12k mile residual is 59% and .0009 MF
24 mo 15k miles = 233.00 + tax 36 mo 12k miles = 233.00 + tax
I think (?) Honda has a hold back for their dealers not sure though. If they do and they're similar to domestics there can be certain conditions to receive it at the end of model year. I recently viewed a half dozen Fusion invoices msrp ranging 19k to 26k and hold backs ranged $500 to $750.
I read a post on the "Accord - Prices Paid"?? forum where someone stated 3% (of msrp) holdback which seems equivilent to domestics.
Interesting... Received a 30 page local newspaper mailer yesterday "2007 New Car Buying Guide" with many local new car dealers ads. The local Autonation Honda dealer (for those unaware, Autonation is the largest corporated holder of new car franchises in the country) has a full page and is adverting Accords for slightly under invoice, but also show a "minimum trade allowance" of 2500. Scam? I may drag our old work horse 94 Astro van in to test them!
Have a look. If Dan Marino puts his picture on the ad, it must be true! :surprise:
Interesting, the Marino thing anyway. We used to have Autonation here in town too, although it was John Elway's name and face that went along with it. They've since dropped him and changed their name to "Go"...still not quite used to seeing hearing that one.
I read a post on the "Accord - Prices Paid"?? forum where someone stated 3% (of msrp) holdback which seems equivilent to domestics.
Interesting... Received a 30 page local newspaper mailer yesterday "2007 New Car Buying Guide" with many local new car dealers ads. The local Autonation Honda dealer (for those unaware, Autonation is the largest corporated holder of new car franchises in the country) has a full page and is adverting Accords for slightly under invoice, but also show a "minimum trade allowance" of 2500. Scam? I may drag our old work horse 94 Astro van in to test them!
Have a look. If Dan Marino puts his picture on the ad, it must be true!
Autonation, Sonic Automotive, etc are probably the WORST places to try to find a deal - for the car, financing, etc. Your local dealer only has to make enough money to pay the employees and keep the lights on, the big chains have to make that much AND enough to send profit home to HQ. The F&I guys at these chain places are known for always marking up the lease and loan rates, high pressure on the mop and glow and warranties, and stuff like that.
That said, if you look at the fine print on the ad all of the Civis and Accords listed are MANUAL transmission models - which eleminates probably 80-90% of the market right there.
MSRP on the SE I4 MT is indeed the $21,420 number they show. Invoice is $19,471. There is currently $750 in factory to dealer money on Accords, as shown here. That gets us down to $18,721 before holdback.
Holdback on Hondas is 3% of MSRP as shown here, which nets out to $642.60. So the "make no money" price for the dealers would be $18,078.40 . They claim you can buy it for $16,899 with any trade in, a difference of $1,179.40.
They probably have a doc or dealer fee (it is not stated) that is $300-600, so that does not leave them with much left to have to cover.
Of course, "minimum trade allowance" probably means to THEM that you need a trade worth that much to get this deal. YOU took that to mean they would give you $2,500 for any trade you brought in. I think if you called or went in, they would clarify this for you.
In the event they DID mean they would give you $2,500 for a hunk of junk, then they fall back on the "all advertised vehicles subject to prior sale" note in the ad. Too bad, they only have 1 at this price and they already sold it. You can have this OTHER Accords, but at a higher price.
Without the trade in confusion, they are offering the SE for $19,399 or $72 under invoice. They are keeping the rest of the factory money ($678) and all the holdback ($642) for a total of $1,320 and I would bet they stick the high dealer fee on top of that.
Call or go by and see, but I would be shocked if the ad MEANT what you think it does and you could actually get this deal with a worthless trade.
I am certain you are absolutely correct in your analysis. Even with the 08's coming it's difficult to imagine some of the discounts that have been posted in the Accord forums.
I had stated in an earlier post that I believed (after talking with a friend who knew a Honda dealer) that the 750 dealer cash was indeed on any Accord regardless of any special finance or lease program. I just got off the phone with the GSM of a local dealer (not Autonation) from who I have bought/leased a half dozen Accords in the past 12 years and he confirmed that the 750 was in fact not available to the dealer if customer utilized any program.
He was also nice enough to give me a price and payment over the phone of 21,000 cap/ 260 - 270 mo for 24 mo 15k miles inc tax with 500 cash for an SE V6.
I was also able to verify SE V6 residuals for 24 mo: 69% @15k and 70% @ 12k.
Been so long since I beat up a dealer I am tempted to drag the old van to Marino!
Forgot to mention that I was also informed that (at least as of now) there is no security deposit required through AHFC. Not sure if that applies only to the current lease specials or all leases though.
Well I bounced these numbers around and determined that to get the "selling price" of 21,000 to a payment of 260.00 inc tax (6.5%) he was adding of course the AHFC acq. fee of 595.00 and a dealer (doc) fee of roughly the same amount. So what initially appeared to be a deal of 455.00 below invoice is really 150 - 200 over invoice due to the doc fee (+ of course the hold back). Approximately 500 out of pocket would be a bit less as they are figuring first payment and guesstimating tag/license fees.
Assuming this is the best one could do... it sounds pretty good when I think back to the first Accord I got. late 96 i got a 97 LX with a V6 (first year for Accord V6). That was a nice car. You know msrp was 23k something! About the same as the 07 SE V6! The 97 had a 24mo residual of 72%! 250 a mo with "zero" out of pocket. If I remember correctly it was about 300 over invoice. Amazing when you think about it. 10 years later and still the same price.
I guess I should clarify my earlier post. I'm sitting here looking through the ads for tomorrow and notice the dealerships I thought were no longer Autonation actually still are, they just changed the name from John Elway [make] to Go [make]...
I got my car yesterday. SE-V6. 20,195 price plus ttl and processing fee. $600 down which paid 1st month payment and a portion of the processing fee. $239 per month; 3 yr. 12,000 miles. Security deposit waived. Northern VA dealership.
Well after spending the past few days emailing back and forth and a couple phone conversations, the best I have been able to do on an SE V6 is 21,250 including any dealer (doc) fee. 24mo @ 15k miles for 231.00 + tax with 1st and lic up front. Of course no where near some of the claims of 1,000 - 2,000 below invoice
In VA do you pay tax on the cap cost (selling price) of the lease? That's the only way I can come up with 239 using 20,195. Most states only charge tax on the payment (and any downpayment). If not and you only pay tax on the payment, 239 does not compute.
Even after adding 595 acquisition fee to the price the only way I can get 239 is by adding roughly another 1300 to the selling price. Without adding an additional 1300 I only get like 203 @36mo 12k miles with 1st payment and license fees out of pocket.
1) The $750 dealer incentive isn't applicable to leases. With holdback on Hondas at 2%, $500 under invoice is pretty good.
2) With that CAP cost, I get his payment, exactly. Unless he is also paying an acquisition fee upfront (which is why I mentioned "under $1000 OOP"), then the actual selling price is $595 less than that.
$231/mo. on a 24mo./30K lease is pretty darn cheap for an almost $24K MSRP car, assuming only 1st payment and govt. fees upfront. I looked back a few pages, and I'm not seeing anything better than that. A lot of posters are quoting selling prices, but unless that translates to a low lease price, then it is just so much vapor.
All of the tax appears to be collected upfront in VA. The tax rate in VA is 3.15% so it is pretty low. And I would agree that $231 plus tax on that 24 month lease is very nice. I asked for a quote on the 24 month lease and they told me the residual was 65% so that bumped the monthly payments pretty high. It is hard to get a clear and correct answer from the dealer sometimes.
I agree with you 100%. A 24mo lease on an Accord is usually an extremely atractive deal. Especially today. If you saw a post of mine earlier I was going on about my first Accord in 97 with a 72% residual for 250 @24mo. Sticker was about the same as today 10 years later.
well they must have looked the residual up incorrectly. Residual for 24mo @12k miles is 70% which would give you about the same payment(or lower) than 36mo @ 12k miles and 59%.
well they must have looked the residual up incorrectly. Residual for 24mo 12k miles is 70% which would give you about the same payment(or lower) than 36mo 12k miles and 59%.
. . . and don't let'em calculate that residual on the "special savings" sticker price of $23,945. The residual is supposed to be figured on the MSRP of $24,845. There's a Honda Finance bulletin instructing the dealer to add back in the residual on the $900 of "special savings" if they initially figured the residual from $23,945. (In the case of a 24 mo/12k lease with a 70% residual, this means adding an additional $630 to the residual.)
I've had to "fight" a couple of dealers on this. Even the dealer who told me about the special bulletin calculated the residual incorrectly until I called their attention to it. If you can't get a dealer to do this correctly, personally I'd look for another dealer.
Last time I saw the residual on the SE V6 the 24/24k lease it was 68% VS 59% for the 36/36k lease. I would not think (unless they are running a special on 24/24k leases) it would be higher now than it was then.
The money factor was shown as the same number for both terms. Even at 68% VS 59% the payment does end up being a little bit higher, but not by much. That IS unusual for a 24 month lease and perfect for someone that changes their mind more often
Hello all, I am new to the leasing game. I'm in the market for an accord LX and got the following quote from a dealer in the Charlotte area: $19889 cap cost, $12684 residual (64%), .0009 money factor; 36 mos., 12k miles/yr. for $267/month with $450 due at signing.
I was told that taxes made up approx $5/month of the payment. This payment does not seem to reconcile with any of the lease calculators I'm finding on the internet. Using the numbers above I'm coming up with payments in the $240-245/month range.
Am I missing something or has the dealer failed to disclose something?
I am interested in LEASING a 2007 EX-L V6 Accord Coupe w/ Navi and AT, brand new. I am rebuilding my credit, so I will say at this point it is probably fair-good. I have never leased a vehicle before and do not want to get swindled.
What BASE price should I look to receive from dealer? I am interested in quotes on 3/36 lease w/ 12k or 15k mileage. If money down, how much to get FINAL monthly payment under $300 in Virginia?
Anybody know if this Honda Finance bulletin really exists and how to prove it's existence?
The dealer finance person offered to fax it to me earlier this month - I didn't take her up on it because I was going to be dealing with her if I leased an Accord (so no need to show it to another dealer). So - I have no "proof" - but I also have no reason to think she wasn't telling the truth. As mentioned previously, even this dealership quoted me a lease using the incorrect residual; making the correction when the finance person brought it to their attention.
My recollection puts the date of this bulletin on or around March 6,2007 - just after the original SE-V6 lease deal was announced*. (The lease quote using the correct residual was just this past weekend, so it's presumably still in effect.)
*If you look at a copy of that original lease offer from Honda . . . the fine print stated an MSRP of $24,845 and a residual for a 36mo/12k lease of $14,658.55 - exactly 59% of 24,845.
Honda does not typically have option discount packages as with the SE Accords that I have seen over the years unlike the domestics so the confusion is understandable. I was told recenly by a Honda SM that they do calculate the residual just like the domestics and add the discount package back in to calculate. If a dealer is unaware of this all they should have to do is call their local AHFC office or factory rep.
I think the biggest problem with this lease is that you're not getting a very good selling price for the LX. Also, the residual doesn't seem right to me.
Well after two weeks of emailing back and forth along with a few phone conversations I relented that I was not going to get 2 grand back of invoice. Or did I?
One of the four local dealers I requested Edmunds quotes from finally committed via email to sell me an SE V6 for 20,750 including any dealer or doc fee (which is typically 500 - 700 around Central Florida). So basically 1000 back of invoice. With the understanding that I would be taking advantage of an AHFC special program.
Now the residual would normally be 17,143 (69%) on an SE V6 for a 24mo 15k mile lease. However, this particular dealer is one of those dealers that likes to pre-add a number of dealer installed options as soon as they roll off the truck and then of course bump up the price accordingly .
This particular car had a package of the following: Lo-Jack 695.00 Painted Pinstripes 295.00 Wheel Locks 195.00 Splash Guards 395.00 Trunk Tray 195.00 A WHOPPING total of 1,775
These items are included in the 20,750. So maybe I did get to 2,000 back of invoice! Well maybe 1,500 depending on what value you put on these extras (not much really).
Any way I walked out with the above for 185.11 + 12.03 tax (6.5%) for a total payment of 197.14 (24mo 15k) while only paying first payment and Florida license fee.
Hard to believe, but this gets better. The dealer did not calculate the residual correctly as I understand it should be. Yes they fully residualized the dealer options of 1,775, but they neglected to residualize the $900 SE option package discount which would make the payment $25 less or $160mo!
Now as you see I have a dilemma. The residual with options is 17,746.80 (17,143 without options). Do I go back and have them re-calculate to $160mo which would also raise the residual to 18,367.80 or do I leave it at the lower residual and provide myself a lower position 24 mo from now? Ah who cares! Six of one or half a dozen!
The sales manager that worked the deal could not believe that the 24mo payment was about $20 less that the 36mo payment. Of course the internet salesman that I corresponded with through email made the comment, "People seem to like 36mo better than 24mo. Maybe they feel by keeping it longer they are reducing their cost?"
My response was, take the lower payment for 24mo and then if you still want to keep it longer, but are not sure whether to buy it out or not, take advantage of a secret program (which most if not all captive finance arms allow) and "extend" the lease. I've extended AHFC and GMAC leases 3 - 6 mo in the past and I have been told you can as much as 12mo!
One last argument I would like to share which I learned today. Some people who have had (not great) lease experiences in the past and may have been nickeled and dimed when they just wanted to turn a lease car in can relax in knowing that apparently AHFC automatically "graces" its lease customers $500 incidental damage allowance for the scrapes, scratches and dings. Not to mention including the GAP insurance so you are protected against minus equity in the event of an accident and total loss of a vehicle.
Finally, this has turned out to be such a ridiculously low payment on an extremely nice car that I am seriously considering going back tomorrow and getting another!
I posted this in the Honda accord prices paid forum as well.
EX-L V6 MSRP $27995 Selling price including dest: $23695 Maryland tax: 5% of total selling price of car. MF 0.0009 Residual 57% total monthly payment including tax/tags/acq. fee: $310 per month. I put down ONLY the first payment of $310.
Well I decided to have them rewrite the lease correctly bringing the payment to $160 + tax which in turn helped me decide that this is too good of a deal not to get another one!
Wow! If I weren't on the West coast and if I hadn't just leased a car . . . I think I'd be on a plane to Florida today! An amazing deal on a fun-to-drive car (it's that V6!) - congratulations once again, really well done.
PS: And thanks for sharing your "victory" with us.
As I mentioned in a previous post I decided to have the lease redone calculating the correct residual which was my belief should include the $900 discount package. However, it seems at this point that it is not the case and Honda does not allow residualizing the discount unlike the domestics.
The sales managers and finance manager were quite certain that you could not. Of course needing more confirmation (since they did not even know that 24 was less than 36) , I contacted the closest AHFC office I could locate a phone number for in Atlanta. Spoke with someone in the leasing department and they in turn confirmed (twice) with their manager that they do not residualize the discount and assured me that it was not a regional thing either. Now, is it possible that even the regional AHFC office is not aware of their own program?
If anyone can provide additonal info please do before I get no.2 tonight!
AHFC will kick back any lease that isn't done correctly. I'd be really surprised if they will let the dealer residualize almost $1800 in dealer-installed options at the list price. There may be some amount that they allow, and it may actually benefit you in a lower lease price, but it would probably be at a lot lower level.
As you've found, the residual is usually based on the bottom number of the MSRP sticker.
Be careful that you don't take delivery of a car, write a check for all of the inceptions, then have them come back and say you need to sign a new lease.
I'm not concerned about the additional options as they are all Honda options with the exception of the LoJack. Since this dealer adds an assortment of options to every new Honda that rolls off the truck (and has for years), I'd be extremely surprised if they did not know what Honda will allow them to residualize.
As for the SE discount package is concerned, I was emailed earlier today a PDF of the Honda website showing the details of the SE feature lease from a couple months ago. It clearly shows MSRP of 24845 and a residual of 59% of that.
This is the type of deal I'm looking for..Excellent!!
I'm trying to lease a 2007 Accord EX(V4)or 2007 Accord EXL/w NAV... 12,000 miles, 24 months, I have an 800 credit score..
As I posted earlier, I can't seem to get a fair quote in person(3 different dealers in CT) or through email(I only tried this once). I refuse to be ripped off. When I find a good deal, I will sign immediately. How do you request Edmunds quotes? Also, can anyone predict what lease rates will come out tomorrow? I'm assuming they should be offering some good incentives to get rid of the 2007s. I appreciate your help.
First, I just returned from the dealer and the GSM apparently decided 20,750 was too low and offered 21,500.
Fugetaboutit!
Anyway, according to him the sales mgr on Saturday screwed up the lease (in addition to selling it too cheap). Residualized options can be "hard" options only (i.e. leather interior, sun roof, etc.). I knew this but was not sure of AHFC definition of "hard" and to tell the truth find it hard to believe that a sales mgr at a dealership that loads all its cars up with options before they even get off the truck does not know what can and cannot be residualized! Surprised also that Genuine Honda options would not qualify.
Based on this info he basically over residualized around 875 since they figured the 1775 but left out the 900 and at 69% netting about 603 overage.
He said that Honda would not kick it back, but would only charge back the dealerships account. Even if they did kick it the dealer would have to decide to either eat it or add a NICE car to the used car lot (highly unlikely imo)! And I would then get my first payment and FL license fee back.
Well let's see how the numbers shake out tomorrow and then keep grinding on the other 3 local dealers.
All I can say is don't give up. Keep grinding on price and don't be shy about letting them know that people are gettting Accords for 1000 - 2000 back of invoice.
When you price out a new car at edmund.com, there should be a link asking if you want to receive dealer quotes. Based on your zip code it lists dealers in your area. There is a section for comments, but I would not mention anything about leasing at that point. Only that your want a price.
Once they start moving down on the price, at some point you do want to make them aware that you will be using one of Honda's special finance programs.
I told you in the price paid forum that I didn't think Honda would fund it.
What the dealer does when they don't would be the question. As you said, you can just un-wind the deal and give them back their "used" car.
One caveat can be that "financing falls through" paper you signed. Some dealers put in per mile and per day charges on those (a rip off dealer locally makes the numbers REAL HIGH). You do have to agree to return the car if the financing falls through and most dealers would not charge a mile/day penalty - but they COULD if they state it on that agreement.
Well my quest continued today in the hunt for a fair deal for a 2007 Honda Accord EX(V4 with cloth). I am looking for a 24 month lease with 12,000 miles per year. Credit score is 800. I finally found a dealer that would give me all numbers, however, I thought the payment was high:
Sticker price: $24,095.00 Sale price: $21,899.00 Residual: $16,143.00 Residual %: 67% Money factor: .00078 Amount down: $775.97..Inception fees & 1st months payment Monthly payment:$324.53(includes 6% CT sales tax) This quote was from a dealer with a non commissioned sales staff. Personally, I think it is high! Help!
Comments
I'd shop elsewhere. Seems like they're trying to hold at least a $1000 deal. Not nearly good enough. Have you submitted an Edmunds dealer quote request? If not go ahead. I had a General Sales Manager leave me a voice mail yesterday. There are dealers that want to move cars. It automatically pulls up all the dealers in your area and allows you to select from this list which dealers get your request. As others have mentioned only correspond through email. The form asks for phone so just put in a bogus number or a number you never answer.
MSRP: $21,520
Cap Cost: $19675
Residual: $12696.80 (59%)
MF: .00096
Acq Fee: $595
Payment: $242 (before taxes)
I was hoping to get around @ $210/mo. Am I being unreasonable?
When you say zero down do you mean no first payment, sec dep or acq fee? As they say "sign and drive"? Everything built into the lease? If so, and the 19,675.00 includes all this, then they are selling the car for 18575.00 or $1000 below invoice. They get $750.00 from Honda so it's only a $250.00 loser for them roughly.
I made this comparison on an SE V6 with the following assumptions obtained from this forum:
24 mo 15k mile residual is 69% and .0009 MF
36 mo 12k mile residual is 59% and .0009 MF
24 mo 15k miles = 233.00 + tax
36 mo 12k miles = 233.00 + tax
Interesting...
Received a 30 page local newspaper mailer yesterday "2007 New Car Buying Guide" with many local new car dealers ads. The local Autonation Honda dealer (for those unaware, Autonation is the largest corporated holder of new car franchises in the country) has a full page and is adverting Accords for slightly under invoice, but also show a "minimum trade allowance" of 2500. Scam? I may drag our old work horse 94 Astro van in to test them!
Have a look. If Dan Marino puts his picture on the ad, it must be true! :surprise:
http://orlandosentinel.p2ionline.com/autoads/rop/index.aspx?area=rop&type=cat&we- bstoryid=12021927
Interesting...
Received a 30 page local newspaper mailer yesterday "2007 New Car Buying Guide" with many local new car dealers ads. The local Autonation Honda dealer (for those unaware, Autonation is the largest corporated holder of new car franchises in the country) has a full page and is adverting Accords for slightly under invoice, but also show a "minimum trade allowance" of 2500. Scam? I may drag our old work horse 94 Astro van in to test them!
Have a look. If Dan Marino puts his picture on the ad, it must be true!
http://orlandosentinel.p2ionline.com/autoads/rop/index.aspx?area=rop&type=cat&we- - bstoryid=12021927
Maybe you need to sign up for Nutri-System to get Dan's OK on the deal!!!
That said, if you look at the fine print on the ad all of the Civis and Accords listed are MANUAL transmission models - which eleminates probably 80-90% of the market right there.
MSRP on the SE I4 MT is indeed the $21,420 number they show. Invoice is $19,471. There is currently $750 in factory to dealer money on Accords, as shown here. That gets us down to $18,721 before holdback.
Holdback on Hondas is 3% of MSRP as shown here, which nets out to $642.60. So the "make no money" price for the dealers would be $18,078.40 . They claim you can buy it for $16,899 with any trade in, a difference of $1,179.40.
They probably have a doc or dealer fee (it is not stated) that is $300-600, so that does not leave them with much left to have to cover.
Of course, "minimum trade allowance" probably means to THEM that you need a trade worth that much to get this deal. YOU took that to mean they would give you $2,500 for any trade you brought in. I think if you called or went in, they would clarify this for you.
In the event they DID mean they would give you $2,500 for a hunk of junk, then they fall back on the "all advertised vehicles subject to prior sale" note in the ad. Too bad, they only have 1 at this price and they already sold it. You can have this OTHER Accords, but at a higher price.
Without the trade in confusion, they are offering the SE for $19,399 or $72 under invoice. They are keeping the rest of the factory money ($678) and all the holdback ($642) for a total of $1,320 and I would bet they stick the high dealer fee on top of that.
Call or go by and see, but I would be shocked if the ad MEANT what you think it does and you could actually get this deal with a worthless trade.
Dennis
I am certain you are absolutely correct in your analysis. Even with the 08's coming it's difficult to imagine some of the discounts that have been posted in the Accord forums.
I had stated in an earlier post that I believed (after talking with a friend who knew a Honda dealer) that the 750 dealer cash was indeed on any Accord regardless of any special finance or lease program. I just got off the phone with the GSM of a local dealer (not Autonation) from who I have bought/leased a half dozen Accords in the past 12 years and he confirmed that the 750 was in fact not available to the dealer if customer utilized any program.
He was also nice enough to give me a price and payment over the phone of 21,000 cap/ 260 - 270 mo for 24 mo 15k miles inc tax with 500 cash for an SE V6.
I was also able to verify SE V6 residuals for 24 mo: 69% @15k and 70% @ 12k.
Been so long since I beat up a dealer I am tempted to drag the old van to Marino!
Assuming this is the best one could do... it sounds pretty good when I think back to the first Accord I got. late 96 i got a 97 LX with a V6 (first year for Accord V6). That was a nice car. You know msrp was 23k something! About the same as the 07 SE V6! The 97 had a 24mo residual of 72%! 250 a mo with "zero" out of pocket. If I remember correctly it was about 300 over invoice. Amazing when you think about it. 10 years later and still the same price.
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In VA do you pay tax on the cap cost (selling price) of the lease? That's the only way I can come up with 239 using 20,195. Most states only charge tax on the payment (and any downpayment). If not and you only pay tax on the payment, 239 does not compute.
Even after adding 595 acquisition fee to the price the only way I can get 239 is by adding roughly another 1300 to the selling price. Without adding an additional 1300 I only get like 203 @36mo 12k miles with 1st payment and license fees out of pocket.
* 231 + roughly 15 tax and 1st payment and lic fees out of pocket.
1) The $750 dealer incentive isn't applicable to leases. With holdback on Hondas at 2%, $500 under invoice is pretty good.
2) With that CAP cost, I get his payment, exactly. Unless he is also paying an acquisition fee upfront (which is why I mentioned "under $1000 OOP"), then the actual selling price is $595 less than that.
$231/mo. on a 24mo./30K lease is pretty darn cheap for an almost $24K MSRP car, assuming only 1st payment and govt. fees upfront. I looked back a few pages, and I'm not seeing anything better than that. A lot of posters are quoting selling prices, but unless that translates to a low lease price, then it is just so much vapor.
regards,
kyfdx
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. . . and don't let'em calculate that residual on the "special savings" sticker price of $23,945. The residual is supposed to be figured on the MSRP of $24,845. There's a Honda Finance bulletin instructing the dealer to add back in the residual on the $900 of "special savings" if they initially figured the residual from $23,945. (In the case of a 24 mo/12k lease with a 70% residual, this means adding an additional $630 to the residual.)
I've had to "fight" a couple of dealers on this. Even the dealer who told me about the special bulletin calculated the residual incorrectly until I called their attention to it. If you can't get a dealer to do this correctly, personally I'd look for another dealer.
The money factor was shown as the same number for both terms. Even at 68% VS 59% the payment does end up being a little bit higher, but not by much. That IS unusual for a 24 month lease and perfect for someone that changes their mind more often
Dennis
I am new to the leasing game. I'm in the market for an accord LX and got the following quote from a dealer in the Charlotte area:
$19889 cap cost, $12684 residual (64%), .0009 money factor; 36 mos., 12k miles/yr. for $267/month with $450 due at signing.
I was told that taxes made up approx $5/month of the payment. This payment does not seem to reconcile with any of the lease calculators I'm finding on the internet. Using the numbers above I'm coming up with payments in the $240-245/month range.
Am I missing something or has the dealer failed to disclose something?
I am interested in LEASING a 2007 EX-L V6 Accord Coupe w/ Navi and AT, brand new. I am rebuilding my credit, so I will say at this point it is probably fair-good. I have never leased a vehicle before and do not want to get swindled.
What BASE price should I look to receive from dealer? I am interested in quotes on 3/36 lease w/ 12k or 15k mileage. If money down, how much to get FINAL monthly payment under $300 in Virginia?
The dealer finance person offered to fax it to me earlier this month - I didn't take her up on it because I was going to be dealing with her if I leased an Accord (so no need to show it to another dealer). So - I have no "proof" - but I also have no reason to think she wasn't telling the truth. As mentioned previously, even this dealership quoted me a lease using the incorrect residual; making the correction when the finance person brought it to their attention.
My recollection puts the date of this bulletin on or around March 6,2007 - just after the original SE-V6 lease deal was announced*. (The lease quote using the correct residual was just this past weekend, so it's presumably still in effect.)
*If you look at a copy of that original lease offer from Honda . . . the fine print stated an MSRP of $24,845 and a residual for a 36mo/12k lease of $14,658.55 - exactly 59% of 24,845.
One of the four local dealers I requested Edmunds quotes from finally committed via email to sell me an SE V6 for 20,750 including any dealer or doc fee (which is typically 500 - 700 around Central Florida). So basically 1000 back of invoice. With the understanding that I would be taking advantage of an AHFC special program.
Now the residual would normally be 17,143 (69%) on an SE V6 for a 24mo 15k mile lease. However, this particular dealer is one of those dealers that likes to pre-add a number of dealer installed options as soon as they roll off the truck and then of course bump up the price accordingly
This particular car had a package of the following:
Lo-Jack 695.00
Painted Pinstripes 295.00
Wheel Locks 195.00
Splash Guards 395.00
Trunk Tray 195.00
A WHOPPING total of 1,775
These items are included in the 20,750. So maybe I did get to 2,000 back of invoice!
Any way I walked out with the above for 185.11 + 12.03 tax (6.5%) for a total payment of 197.14 (24mo 15k) while only paying first payment and Florida license fee.
Hard to believe, but this gets better. The dealer did not calculate the residual correctly as I understand it should be. Yes they fully residualized the dealer options of 1,775, but they neglected to residualize the $900 SE option package discount which would make the payment $25 less or $160mo!
Now as you see I have a dilemma. The residual with options is 17,746.80 (17,143 without options). Do I go back and have them re-calculate to $160mo which would also raise the residual to 18,367.80 or do I leave it at the lower residual and provide myself a lower position 24 mo from now? Ah who cares! Six of one or half a dozen!
The sales manager that worked the deal could not believe that the 24mo payment was about $20 less that the 36mo payment. Of course the internet salesman that I corresponded with through email made the comment, "People seem to like 36mo better than 24mo. Maybe they feel by keeping it longer they are reducing their cost?"
My response was, take the lower payment for 24mo and then if you still want to keep it longer, but are not sure whether to buy it out or not, take advantage of a secret program (which most if not all captive finance arms allow) and "extend" the lease. I've extended AHFC and GMAC leases 3 - 6 mo in the past and I have been told you can as much as 12mo!
One last argument I would like to share which I learned today. Some people who have had (not great) lease experiences in the past and may have been nickeled and dimed when they just wanted to turn a lease car in can relax in knowing that apparently AHFC automatically "graces" its lease customers $500 incidental damage allowance for the scrapes, scratches and dings. Not to mention including the GAP insurance so you are protected against minus equity in the event of an accident and total loss of a vehicle.
Finally, this has turned out to be such a ridiculously low payment on an extremely nice car that I am seriously considering going back tomorrow and getting another!
Cheers!
PS: I think I'd let sleeping dogs lie re the residual - don't want somebody to wake up and realize they're giving cars away!
EX-L V6 MSRP $27995
Selling price including dest: $23695
Maryland tax: 5% of total selling price of car.
MF 0.0009 Residual 57%
total monthly payment including tax/tags/acq. fee: $310 per month. I put down ONLY the first payment of $310.
Let me know what you think.
PS: And thanks for sharing your "victory" with us.
Could you tell me which dealer you worked with in Central FL? I've been to Holler, Classic, and Courtesy and haven't come close to your deal.
Is it safe to assume you have top of the line credit?
Thanks in advance.
Email me and I'll provide some info to you. gpsac@hotmail.com
The sales managers and finance manager were quite certain that you could not. Of course needing more confirmation (since they did not even know that 24 was less than 36)
If anyone can provide additonal info please do before I get no.2 tonight!
AHFC will kick back any lease that isn't done correctly. I'd be really surprised if they will let the dealer residualize almost $1800 in dealer-installed options at the list price. There may be some amount that they allow, and it may actually benefit you in a lower lease price, but it would probably be at a lot lower level.
As you've found, the residual is usually based on the bottom number of the MSRP sticker.
Be careful that you don't take delivery of a car, write a check for all of the inceptions, then have them come back and say you need to sign a new lease.
Good luck,
kyfdx
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As for the SE discount package is concerned, I was emailed earlier today a PDF of the Honda website showing the details of the SE feature lease from a couple months ago. It clearly shows MSRP of 24845 and a residual of 59% of that.
I'm trying to lease a 2007 Accord EX(V4)or
2007 Accord EXL/w NAV...
12,000 miles, 24 months, I have an 800 credit score..
As I posted earlier, I can't seem to get a fair quote in person(3 different dealers in CT) or through email(I only tried this once).
I refuse to be ripped off. When I find a good deal, I will sign immediately. How do you request Edmunds quotes? Also, can anyone predict what lease rates will come out tomorrow? I'm assuming they should be offering some good incentives to get rid of the 2007s.
I appreciate your help.
24 months 12k a year.
$ 900 Total out of pocket
$ 250 a month.
Also, did you happen to get a quote on the EXL(4CYL) w/NAVI?
Thanks for your help! :confuse:
First, I just returned from the dealer and the GSM apparently decided 20,750 was too low and offered 21,500.
Fugetaboutit!
Anyway, according to him the sales mgr on Saturday screwed up the lease (in addition to selling it too cheap). Residualized options can be "hard" options only (i.e. leather interior, sun roof, etc.). I knew this but was not sure of AHFC definition of "hard" and to tell the truth find it hard to believe that a sales mgr at a dealership that loads all its cars up with options before they even get off the truck does not know what can and cannot be residualized! Surprised also that Genuine Honda options would not qualify.
Based on this info he basically over residualized around 875 since they figured the 1775 but left out the 900 and at 69% netting about 603 overage.
He said that Honda would not kick it back, but would only charge back the dealerships account. Even if they did kick it the dealer would have to decide to either eat it or add a NICE car to the used car lot (highly unlikely imo)! And I would then get my first payment and FL license fee back.
Well let's see how the numbers shake out tomorrow and then keep grinding on the other 3 local dealers.
When you price out a new car at edmund.com, there should be a link asking if you want to receive dealer quotes. Based on your zip code it lists dealers in your area. There is a section for comments, but I would not mention anything about leasing at that point. Only that your want a price.
Once they start moving down on the price, at some point you do want to make them aware that you will be using one of Honda's special finance programs.
What the dealer does when they don't would be the question. As you said, you can just un-wind the deal and give them back their "used" car.
One caveat can be that "financing falls through" paper you signed. Some dealers put in per mile and per day charges on those (a rip off dealer locally makes the numbers REAL HIGH). You do have to agree to return the car if the financing falls through and most dealers would not charge a mile/day penalty - but they COULD if they state it on that agreement.
Dennis
Sticker price: $24,095.00
Sale price: $21,899.00
Residual: $16,143.00
Residual %: 67%
Money factor: .00078
Amount down: $775.97..Inception fees & 1st months payment
Monthly payment:$324.53(includes 6% CT sales tax)
This quote was from a dealer with a non commissioned sales staff. Personally, I think it is high! Help!