TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

759397 · December 2001

we get right around 20-21 with the V6 manual on the highway doing about the same speed with some stop and go. Mostly on 89 octane if that matters.

smgilles · December 2001

My best is 25 on a trek across the western half of the U.S., but that was doing 65-70.

Normally I get 20-21 doing 75-85.

If I fly around in the S/C, it is 18-19.

sozer · December 2001

my parents!!! have the two accords but my dream is still a lancer when im 16

sozer · December 2001

Hello it is sozer i am not sure what you mean on the fitting more adults in ranger than a tacoma. The tacoma has the crew cab model with four larger doors than the rangers extra-cab! I agree with scorpio with all of those ford recalls i wouldnt want one. My cousin, and uncle both have tacomas and they love them!

sozer · December 2001

During the past three model years (2000,2001,2002) of the ranger and the tacoma I found five recalls of the ranger and only one for the tacoma.

allknowing · December 2001

The grill doesn't look as bad on the stepside Tacoma. In fact, regarding the stepside, it's kind of growing on me. I still think the new std. Tacoma looks funny though.

modvptnl · December 2001

I'm picturing the Tacoma in my mind. Does the Tacoma try to copy the Super Duty by using the 2 small grills that border the main grill?

Just wondering. Works on a big truck.

sc0rpi0 · December 2001

It's not a matter of copying.
It's that just there isnt much flexibility available to the designers when it comes to the front grills, since all trucks have the same thing upfront (lights, logo), sort of limits the options. It's bound that there'll be a lot of similar grill designs.

eagle63 · December 2001

I actually like the new tacoma grill, but at first I didn't. (grew on me over time) -but only with the chrome, I don't like the look of the "color matched" grill.

bess · December 2001

I never mentioned fitting more adults in the Ranger supercab vs. the Tacoma extended cab..

Also, the Tacoma extended cab does not offer a 4 door version like Ford does with the Ranger.

There is a Tacoma 'double cab' but this is is more comparable to Fords Explorer sport track. Both have 4 real doors, and extra short beds.. These are catagorized as 'crew cab' trucks not 'extended cab' trucks.

toadman · December 2001

I realize this is Ranger vs. Tacoma but in light of the fact that the Ranger doesn't have a crew cab ala Dodge, Nissan and Toyota it really is a shame that Ford didn't hit this segment of the market sooner. I test drove the Sport Track and liked the interior room and features. The 12V plug in the bed is a great idea as is the push button rear window. Beats the heck out of my split rear window. That being said, I did not like the handling or the sluggishness of the 4L SOHC. Gas mileage was also an issue. I get 19 MPG in mixed driving and just about 22 MPG on the hwy. It also did not feel as nimble or turn as well as the crew cabs. I'm sure weight has a lot to do with it. The Sport Track is about 450+ lbs heavier than the Toyota D-cab. I look forward to seeing the Ranger full four doors at the end of 2003. It will be interesting to see what Ford comes up with given all the info they should have based on the competition models.

bess · December 2001

Thanks for your comparison. I thought that Ford came out with the sport track about the same time that Toyota came out with the double cab.. Nissan I think gets the credit for comming out with the crew cab mini truck first.. oh well..

I am interested in how Ford positions/markets the Sport trac vs. Ranger crew cab in 2003, as these basically sound like they will be very similar in capabilities.. Will Ford do away with the sport trac?
Maybe the Ranger crew cab will have the option for a 5' bed (or maybe even 6'), instead of the ultra short beds most of the mini crew cab trucks have..
Again, Nissan has already indicated that they will have this, (if they don't already).

sozer · December 2001

sorry but i guess i just did not understand the first time you said it now i do, you are the tacoma does not come in a 4dr extended cab.

plutonious · December 2001

Remember all this debate on the Ranger's LSD versus the Tacoma's open differential with the locker? I've been doing a little reading on this subject and have found the open differential is BY FAR more rugged and longer-lasting, and this is exactly why Toyota has stuck to the open differential. The LSD, on the other hand, goes about its business utilizing clutch plates in the differential, and the system frequently needs rebuilding every 60K-100K miles.

modvptnl · December 2001

Then why does toy offer it as an option on the Tundra????

At least I'm happy you've realized IT IS an open diff when not locked.

Your apology is duly noted. LOL!!!

quadrunner500 · December 2001

When the clutch plates wear out, it's no longer effective for limited slip, but still works as any open differential.

allknowing · December 2001

So what does that mean? If you have an older truck and come upon an area where you need the LSD, it might not be working without any warning?

tbunder · December 2001

pluto, you talk of the LSD as it being a useless and high maintenance accessory. well, here's an article you need to read. please note how the "Torsen" LSD operates. also note who uses this same type of LSD, and then tell me it's not rugged. tell me, since you say the LSD, in clutch form can go 100000 miles between maintenance rebuilds, what about the locker? is it infinite to any type of needed maintenance? lets state both sides if any.

here's the link:

http://www.off-road.com/fordracing/fx4/

im sorry guys, i knew i said i wouldn't post anymore, but in this case, pluto is trying to run down the ranger again, and again his statements are negative and ill-informed. thx

eagle63 · December 2001

I don't know if I'd call 60K-100K miles "frequent rebuilding."

bess · December 2001

I do agree that an LSD requires more maintainance than an open diff in order to keep the limited slip function working properly..
The only type of failure of the LSD is that over long periods of time, the LSD clutches can wear, which results in the diff acting exactly like an open diff. So when the LSD fails, it is no worse than the open diff..

It is also my understanding that locking diffs also require more maintenance than an open diff in order to keep them functioning properly.

Allknowing, unfortunately you are right. If you have a Ford truck with limited slip diff that has over 100k miles on it, you probably should check it to make sure it is still functioning properly.

This is asking no more than anyone who has a 4x4 system to make sure it is still functioning properly.. I know that we all have heard of cases with all of the 4x4 models where there are vacum failures, and other mechanical failures that cause the front hubs or the transfer case to not engauge when needed..

plutonious · December 2001

Did you notice what the first sentence under the LSD paragraph said in your link? Something to the effect of "short of a fully locking differential, the Torsen LSD is the perfect..."

Thanks for posting a link proving my point.

midnight_stang · December 2001

I doubt it would just give out with out any warning at all. You would see degrading performance until eventually the LSD doesn't function. It's not just an on/off thing, but a gradual decline. So any experienced driver should notice the decline before total failure. About the 60-100k replacement mark, that like most other things, depends on driving and maintenance habits.

It's still just a matter of preference.
The hardcore off-road guys like to have a fully locked differential for the really tough stuff, and an open differential other wise. Others like the safety of the Limited Slip because it's always there, off-road or not. Especially helpful for any turns on wet or sloping asphalt. Ice in town, whatever. Overall I think the Limited Slip will still help you perform off-road, and keep you straight on the road.

But of course with our "low hanging rear shock mounts" we Ranger owners go through about 2-3 axles a season, so we always have a fresh differential to use...

quadrunner500 · December 2001

It's easy to test. Lift the rear axle. With parking brake off, in Park (if auto), or 1st gear (if manual), turn one of the rear wheels. The wheel on the other side will turn opposite. If you feel some resistance, your clutches are working. If no resistance, clutches worn.

LSD is of only minor assistance anyway. It's best on snow packed or iced streets. Not really effective in most off-road situations. Since most of your time spent is on the street, this is as it should be.

quadrunner500 · December 2001

Surprisingly easy job. Lift the rear axle. Pull the wheels and brake calipers off. Pull the diff cover off. Rotate the carrier until you can see the axles through the service window. Remove the axles clips on each side with needle nose pliers. Slide out both axles. The carrier drops out on the floor. Install the old ring gear on the new carrier. Re-install. $300

issisteelman · December 2001

You know, something has really been bothering me. Many of you pro-Ranger fans have repeatedly argued that a Ranger has to be better than a Tacoma because it outsells Tacomas. I really honestly feel that such an argument borders on being ludicrous. For example, a BMW is a well engineered car, but the Ford Escort probably outsells it. Does that mean an Escort is better than a BMW. I think not! I'm sure we can all agree that there is no logic to this argument. In any case, I would never buy a Ranger instead of a Tacoma. That is my preference, and 1000 pro-Ranger posts won't convince me that a Ranger is a better "quality" truck either.

Also, I thought Tbunder was done doing posts! What's up with that? Proof positive that his posts are not always entirely accurate

I'll see you in the middle of nowhere........Steelman.

midnight_stang · December 2001

Of course the escort (or Focus) is at most 50 percent the cost of any BMW.

It's all about filling a niche of consumer demand. Consumers buy what the consumer wants. If the price difference was low and quality difference was as high as many Yota fan's believe, then why do Ranger's outsell the Tacoma?

I'm sorry, but more people pick the Ranger over the Tacoma, even despite Toyota's reputation for quality.

Let's just appreciate the diversity, because if everyone had the same truck and mindset, the world would be a boring place.

You know what is amazing? Ford's November sales increased 4.4%(Trucks 6.7%) over Nov 2000. Yearly sales for 2001 are down 6.0% (Trucks down 2.8%)from 2000. But we all know about all the bad press floating around in the first 3 quarters of 2000. I think the cost-cutting paradigm was hurting the quality of Ford products, but with the recent CEO/management change, that issue will be completely addressed. It's been some tough lumps to swallow, but it will only make Ford stronger. So make your arguments now while you still can!

tbunder · December 2001

pluto, yes i saw that statement. one for you. im sure everyone has a different opinion on which one is better in off-road situations. but really the REAL reason i posted that link was to prove to you that you were wrong on your comments on the clutches of ranger lsd's wearing out. the fx4 (which im sure you were targeting) doesn't even use this type of setup. wrong again. like the article says, ford took advice from off-roaders who use their products, obviously they wanted a lsd in preference to a locker. hmmm

steelman- to compare a $30K BMW to a $11K Escort is ludicrous. maybe a lincoln LS would be more fair. and to be honest, the lincoln would run circles around most bmw's in its price range.

quadrunner- i disagree with you on lsd's not helping off-road. why do you think this? do you think they shut down the minute they hit the dirt or what? they're always available automatically. lockers have advantages too, but imo the lsd has the most real world usability.

saddaddy · December 2001

Would someone care to guess what happens when you lift a tire with off the ground with LSD? You guessed it, your stuck. Locker -- engage it and go on about your business. The LSD is great but I just can't see someone putting it on their "unbeatable" OFF ROAD package. Even if it is a Torsen. LOL, yippity freakin doo da. If someone can explain this, please do. And again Im not doubting the working of the LSD, but to pick that instead of a locker for your specific OFF ROAD truck - no way. You will never hear of someone who is building an off road truck spend money on an LSD, they would buy a locker. And lifting a tire is not that rare - even happens to me lots when crossing a pasture to go fishing. Thats not even considered wheeling to me.

saddaddy · December 2001

Exactly what kind of off-roaders would prefer an LSD to a locker, really? Maybe the ones that tow their Rangers behind their motor homes. Theres a thought for ya. Hard core wheelers for sure.

toadman · December 2001

Here's a link to a discussion on the SUV forum about 4wd and AWD. There are a great many posts regarding LSD and open differentials and four wheel drive systems in general.

greg116 "4WD & AWD systems explained" Feb 5, 2001 6:01pm

Enjoy!

bess · December 2001

I thought you would have to re set the gear lash.. This is the time consuming and most difficult part..

eagle63 · December 2001

"You know what is amazing? Ford's November sales increased 4.4%(Trucks 6.7%) over Nov 2000."

-you realize this is entirely due to 0% financing...

tbunder · December 2001

toyota's sales increase on their tundra. its at 0% as well. and its there because its not selling (direct quote from toyota dealer when i asked why tacoma wasn't at that rate when i was looking at the dc), ford has 0% on their trucks to help the economy, its not like ford cant sell their trucks, matter of fact there is a waiting list to order super duty's. ford cant make enough of them trucks. and ford always has rebates to help out the buyer. why? cuz they can. i would think if toyota built more tacomas and offered rebates, they may come closer to ford on sales numbers of their compact truck.

yeah, i thought id get back in on the convo again. its been going pretty good around here, ill try and keep my opinions to myself if everyone else will.

quadrunner500 · December 2001

Bess, when I put in Richmond gears, I applied gear paint to the teeth on the ring gear, disassembled and reassembled several times, and checked the pattern each time. Never could get rid of the whine. When I switched to factory G.M. gears, it worked out fine just putting the stock shims back in the original position, no whine. The Richmond gears were 2/3 the price of the GM gears, and used the stock 2 series carrier. The G.M. gears required me to replace the 2 series carrier with a 3 series Auburn limited slip, but got rid of the noise. (Z28)

So...to make a long story short...you are right. It is the most time consuming part, but not always necessary.

quadrunner500 · December 2001

It's because I know first hand, up close that those tiny clutches in a limited slip just don't transfer enough torque to the other side to make much of a difference. They clutch plates are only about 3 inches or less in diameter. And small springs are all that keep them in contact. But don't take my word for it. Lift up the rear axle, put it in park (or 1st if manual tranny), release the parking brake, turn one of the rear wheels. If the axles were locked, you could not turn the wheel. With a limited slip, it won't take much effort to overcome the friction of the slip clutches, and that's exactly how much torque is being transferred to the other side. This is why limited slip works better on the street in slippery, icy conditions where both tires usually have some grip, and just a little bit of torque transfer is all that's needed to get moving. If one wheel is up in the air, limited slip is useless.

Not taking sides here, because my truck has neither, no locker, no limited slip. My last truck had the eaton locker. That seems to be the best compromise between a true locker and limited slip. A locker that only works below 5 mph like the taco has limitations also. Okay for rock crawling.

allknowing · December 2001

Tbunder - Good posts. Keep this up and I'll respect you.

Stang - Liked your shock comment-pretty funny.

Quad -I realize that you can easily check the LSD but I doubt that many people check it regularly. I was just surprised that it may go without any warning. In reality though, I've never had a LSD fail under 90-100K.

quadrunner500 · December 2001

There's not going to be any warning, because the only time the clutch plates move against each other is going around corners, in which case they slip when they are good, and they slip when they are bad. I think they can go 100K and still be working. And their effectiveness at 10K was never anything to get excited about. But on ice, it can be the difference. But I agree, I doubt anyone checks them, or fixes them, so the practical reality is they last a lifetime.

759397 · December 2001

A little off topic but....how again will a Lincoln LS run circles around a BMW 330ci or 530i?

I just got to hear this logic. Size....yes the Lincoln wins. V8 yes the LS wins....but why would you want a V8 with worse performance then an I6 in the first place?

Just curious.

midnight_stang · December 2001

eagle--->No doubt the 0% financing contributed greatly, but don't forget the lagging economy, the recent quality issues recalls and TSB's on Ford products, the increased competition (from Tacoma and others), the older Ranger design which some call outdated, and many others if we sat and think about it. I'm not in marketing or financial analysis, but when Ford says "Ford Ranger sales [in November] increased 40.3 per cent -- its best November sales since 1997." That's a pretty good accomplishment.

Saddaddy--->Good point (post 3180). I guess LSD owners would have to rely on good ole momentum, or just the other axle to get them through any tough spot.

allknowing/quadrunner--->What about the burnout test for an LSD? I thought you could do that and see if you left one or two tire marks, or does this typically out do the clutches as well?

sc0rpi0 · December 2001

I guess it's just me that thinks that 0% financing has nothing directly to do with "improving economy", despite what the commercial says.
I saw a little piece on the news about a month/two ago, where they gave a pretty interesting point of view:
reason why all big 3 are giving 0% is because of GM. At this point Ford and Chevy are competing against GM for market share: GM is keeping the 0% financing deal going, and Ford/Chevy have to keep it up, otherwise they'll hit a sales slump themselves, and lose market share. Combined with the vigorous ad campaign for GM Sierra and other GM trucks, I think this is valid. Companies are in business to make money, for themselves and their shareholders, and unfortunately, saying "Well, the economy is bad, so we lost xx% market share, and our stock slipped by 50%" is committing suicide.
Think about this...0% financing is a killer on a business. We are talking companies giving you non-interest loan for the next 5 years, when they could make $2000 off you. Combine that with the fact that many people these days are shopping over the net and getting nice deals ($100 over invoice, $300 over invoice), we are talking about basically non-profitable business. Is that a good way to stimulate economy? I'm sure that collapse of some big automotive brand is all this country needs at this point in time.

Toyota is giving 0% on Tundras for the same reason: it wants to grab market share in the fullsize pickup market. As for why there arent any big discounts offered on Tacoma: there needn't be any (from the company's point of view). Unlike Tundras, Tacomas sell no matter what. There is a demand for those neat little trucks, and people will buy them anyway. Check out the ratio of Tacomas to Tundras (or to anything else on a Toyota dealers lot). There's less Tacomas than anything else, Tundra (about 3-4 to 1), 4Runner (again, about 3-4 to 1). What Toyota has done is opposite of Ford: we'll keep the supply down a little, and with constant demand, we don't need to give any rebates, the demand will be there. Ford did the opposite: lets flood the market with Rangers, and give out big rebates.

eagle63 · December 2001

was the Eaton diff you used to have the "gov-lok?" -I've read about this diff, sounds like it's a cross between a LSD and a locker. comes standard on the ZR2.

eagle63 · December 2001

As has been talked about recently by many economists, GM's 0% financing idea is probably one of the worst financial decisions by the auto companies in recent times. All they're really doing is deferring their losses until next year. The competitors like ford, DC, Toyota, etc. have to follow suit or lose marketshare to GM. It's like a giant game of chicken.

plutonious · December 2001

their price wars. Everytime Southwest Airlines has their $200 round-trip deals, everybody else does the same thing. I usually buy tickets based on Southwest's rebate periods, but usually don't fly Southwest.

issisteelman · December 2001

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but there is actually quite a simple explanation for why everyone can currently offer 0% financing (Subaru, Toyota, Ford, GM, Hyundai, Pontiac, etc.). It is called simple economics and it has nothing to do with market share or patriotism. In case you haven't noticed, the Federal Reserve has lowered interest rates 11 (or 12) consecutive times. As a result, the Federal prime lending rate is at its lowest level in who knows how long. As a result, it is cheaper for all of us (including the auto dealers and their financing institutions) to borrow money. If you notice, in most cases you cannot get a rebate off of the MSRP if you take 0% financing. That is because the auto makers have calculated how much they make on each vehicle (sold at full MSRP) vs. how much it costs them to give you 0% financing (comparted to the % interest they pay to their lending institutions). This financing cost is small (due to low interest rates) compared to what they make when you pay full MSRP. In the end, they still make good money and you think you've taken them to the cleaners. Get a grip everyone, automobiles are a business (period, end of story). They are never going to sell you a vehicle at a loss. So forget patriotism and forget market share (although they are always trying to get a larger market share). This 0% financing is purely about economics. Take care and I'll see you up at camp by the camp fire.......Steelman.

quadrunner500 · December 2001

Midnight, the burnout test is not a great test because with equal traction, you'll leave 2 stripes even with an open differential, and with unequal traction, you might get only one stripe even with a good limited slip diff.

Eagle,

It's the same used on the ZR2. If that's the gov-lok, then that's what it is. Here is a link to the Eaton locker http://www.torquecontrol.eaton.com/

toadman · December 2001

If the auto dealers are only offering 0% for buyers who pay MSRP, it might not be a great deal. I beleive the 0% rate is valid only for up to 36 months. After that it's on a sliding scale. However, if a buyer can negotiate a price on a vehicle, close the deal and still get the 0% financing, then great. I also saw an ad on TV a few weeks ago advertising a $500 rebate on regular cab Toyota's. It was valid thru the first week of December. Maybe Toyota here in the PNW has extended it, don't know for sure.

759397 · December 2001

I have been to two Toyota dealers this week for various reasons and the only trucks on the lot are Tundras & the small 2wd Tacomas. I have yet to see a good selection of 4wd Tacomas on the lots. I'm not one to jump to conclusions but if I had to say so I think they're selling fine.

eagle63 · December 2001

this time next year when the 0% financing is over, and there is no incentive for consumers to buy vehicles in a slow economy, the auto companies will get pummeled. All they've done is deferred the massive amounts of money they would have lost this year until next year.

"They are never going to sell you a vehicle at a loss."

-most of ford and chevy's cars are sold at a loss and have been for some time. they have been making up for it with their trucks/suv's.

issisteelman · December 2001

I just wanted to share a nice story with all you pro-Tacoma fans out there. I recently ventured out of the woods to visit a local watering hole. I was sitting at the bar talking to an old friend of mine about many different things. We finally got on to the subject of new vehicles and I told him about my recent purchase of a Tacoma and how I hoped it would continue to perform as well as it has been for many, many years. It was nice to hear him say, and I quote, "Don't worry big guy, Toyotas are bullet proof." You know what, he's right, they really are bullet proof. I've had mine off road for many miles now (it is going on one year old) and she takes a licking and keeps on ticking. It seems that many plain folk like you and me have come to trust that, it may cost more, but in the long run a Toyota truck is going to be worth it. I love my bullet proof Yota. Take care and I hope to see you at my local watering hole........Steelman.

modvptnl · December 2001

Two drunks at a bar say toy is best!! I'm getting one today!!!

TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

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