BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

busiris · July 2011

BMW has been equipping it's cars with RFT's for years now. I would think that we have reached the point where there are enough autos equipped with RFT's that there is a sufficient demand for longer tread life tires, yet I don't see any on the market.

Now, you've stated many times that mileage is dependent on the driver, and to a degree that's true.

I'll wager, however, that you would be hard-pressed indeed to find anyone with 80,000 miles on a set of RFT's. And, one would have a difficult time convincing me that most BMW owners today put performance ahead of tire life longevity. Especially with so few manual transmissions sold in BMW's in the USA.

The funny thing is, overall, I probably fall into the category that supports RFT tires and technology, yet I see there are many valid concerns and complaints about the tires.

Sticking one's head in the sand and denying that there aren't significant issues, maybe even problems, with RFT's is, IMO, not a very effective way to resolve the issue.

But, then again, if one doesn't acknowledge there ARE issues, there isn't any point in discussing it, is there?

I'm not necessarily referring to you in that comment, but there isn't any shortage of folks within BMW and the tire industry that fall under that umbrella. Ask any BMW owner who has had problems with RFT's and discussed it with their dealer. See what their response is...

busiris · August 2011

I was lucky enough to find a lonely self-tapping sheet metal screw with my left front tire on my 2010 328i convertible yesterday.

Price of the new replacement tire on Tirerack.com... $310.00.

Fortunately, I have the wheel and tire insurance, so my out of pocket will be $0.00 for the replacement. Now, only 1.25 more tires to go, and I will have broken even on the insurance cost...

Any way you cut it, that's a high priced tire. It could have been worse... The rear tire cost is $405.00!

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

I got rid of the RFTs on my MINI and bought 4 -17" Bridgestone RE 760s, mounted and balanced, for $645 out the door. I couldn't be happier.

rfl · August 2011

I got away even cheaper! $207 Plus $35 installation for a Bridgestone RFT on a 3500 mile 2011 X3 with a pinhole leak no bigger than a corn flake crumb. They are IMPOSSIBLE to plug (even if you find a willing tire dealer (they do exist).... but I chalk it up to auto expense and am grateful that it got me home without going flat. Oh...did I mention that it happened during Irene here in the northeast. Whatever the cost...it's part of the cost of owning a car. I will NEVER be without RFT's again.

shipo · August 2011

So are you saying you actually like RFTs?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

Even RFTs can only be driven so far however.

I know some people like 'em...I just don't know how they tolerate it. Maybe I'm just not "getting it", I dunno.

Besides, if you had say a 328ix and you lost one RFT with say 15,000 miles on it, I'm not sure they'd let you put just one new tire along with 3 other well-worn ones.

kyfdx · August 2011

I've driven a few 328xi loaners in the last couple of years... I can't tell the difference between the all-season runflats on them and any other all-season tire..

Considering the replacement cost, I'd rather have regular tires and a spare.... but, for that type of car, the driving experience difference is nil..

Now... performance runflats on a MINI? Those suck..

The new car I pickup on Saturday will have performance runflats.. I'll report back, once I get it home.

rfl · August 2011

You betcha! Didn't at first...this is my 5th BMW with RFT's. But just wait until you get a flat racing to get home with an oncoming hurricane.....you will bless the RFT engineers. I know all of the arguments against them...I've made most of them as well as you Shipo...cost, inability to plug them, lousy performance, wear, handling, ad nauseum. Yes...I'd sacrifice them all for the safety and peace of mind in a "flat tire in the wrong place at the wrong time" scenario. In fact, I am so sold on them now that I wouldn't have GFTs with a spare. I cannot change my own tire (i'm a senior!)...so the ability to get to someone who can or get me home is worth everything! If you can afford two new BMW's (as I have)... $200-$300 for a tire is chump change.

shipo · August 2011

Choice is a wonderful thing; BMW apparently doesn't agree.

kyfdx · August 2011

Does any car manufacturer give you a choice in tires, though? You pretty much take what you get..

Though not runflats, almost every OEM tire has been crap, in my experience... and, I'm too cheap to take them off before they are worn out.. the only difference here, is no spare.

regards,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

Well fine, then BMW should have an optional "Hurricane Package" then, just like they have a Cold Weather Package, but don't force these....these......THINGS....on us. That's my only gripe, and I think that's a reasonable position (if I do say so myself) :P

To be fair to the other side, I've only had personal experience (regular driving) with three cars equipped with GFTs,....but they were all bad.

shipo · August 2011

"To be fair to the other side, I've only had personal experience (regular driving) with three cars equipped with GFTs,....but they were all bad."

All of your GFT experiences have been bad? Have you ever had a good driving experience relative to the tires you were riding upon? :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

Well sure. I like the tires that I replaced my GFTs with. :P

My major "bad" experience with GFTs were twofold (one MINI, two BMWs, a 2007 and 2008):

1. unbearably noisy

2. premature wear

A fair question though: "Would I have replaced by GFTs with another set of GFTs if I had been able to drive home in a rainstorm one night with a flat tire?"

Answer: No, it's still not worth the trade-off of 364 days of noise for 1 day of convenience. I have green slime, I have an air pump, I have AAA with 100 mile towing.

Some members of the GFT Alumni Club even have a spare tire!

If GFTs are now quieter and less expensive to replace, I'd change my tune for 2012.

busiris · August 2011

I fully agree... Choice of tire construction type (not tire manufacturer) is always preferable to no choice of same.

In theory, I like the "promise" of RFT's... But, they fall short in practice.

I picked up the screw Sunday around noon. I called to get an appointment to get the replacement tire Monday AM. I asked to be notified before the appointment if the tire wasn't in stock and available, to which the service "arranger" agreed to do.
I went in today, Tuesday for my 10 AM appointment... You know where this is going, don't you?
No tire in stock...we will have one tomorrow.

The good part was that I was never stranded, nor did I have to change the tire before continuing on down the road... That's the "promise of RFT technology" I like.

You can see how that "promise" translated into reality.

Still, I'm not upset about it. Perhaps it's a rare condition that my sized tire wasn't in stock, or maybe it's an all too common occurrence. In the end, it simply is what it is.

I'm too old nowadays to let minor things like this get my blood pressure up...

Anyway, that's my opinion...

shipo · August 2011

Ahhh, I think I see the problem.

RFT = Run Flat Tires
GFT = Gets Flat Tires

Me thinks you actually like GFTs and don't like RFTs. Yes, no?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

Oh yeah---MY TYPO---I like GFTs more than RFTs yes. Good catch!

Yes, everyone, please self-correct my post #2969. :P

shipo · August 2011

Nearly five years ago I was struggling to come up with a short-hand way of refering to regular "Gets Flat" tires for a post I was composing; little did I know that post in this very thread (link below) would actually lead to an entry in the AcronymFinder database. :shades:

Original post:
-- http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efceb01/456#MSG456

Acronym Finder entry (can't get the link to stick, you'll need to cut and paste it into a browser):
-- www.acronymfinder.com/Get-Flat-Tire-(GFT).html

busiris · August 2011

Not an issue... We all knew you meant RFT .vs. GFT...

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

So how come I didn't know? :P

I am fascinated though, by reports of people who are happy with RFTs--I'd really love to drive one of their cars and hum the holiday tune "Do you hear what I hear?"

rfl · August 2011

You don't like BMW's position on RFTs? You DO have a choice. Buy a Chevy! (or...sarcasm aside), how about a Mercedes. I would rather have the BMW with the "forced RFTs" than the alternatives. Choice.... ain't this country great?

busiris · August 2011

I picked up the screw Sunday around noon. I called to get an appointment to get the replacement tire Monday AM. I asked to be notified before the appointment if the tire wasn't in stock and available, to which the service "arranger" agreed to do.
I went in today, Tuesday for my 10 AM appointment... You know where this is going, don't you?
No tire in stock...we will have one tomorrow.

Update:

I now have a new front tire, and the issue has been resolved.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

There have been people posting in these forums who say that they rejected a BMW as a buying choice because of the RFTs. I never followed up on that but that does indicate that there can be a very strong negative reaction to RFTs indeed.

puffin1 · August 2011

Well,it seems to me that the RFT tread is a never ending story.Six months ago I posted on here I swapped over to Cotinental Pro Contacts and I'm happy. If you guys think a Michelin rolls better and u can squeeze an extra mile why buy a 3 series AWD. My 328i isn't made for snow. Alot of people say you can't put one tire on an XI espescially after 15k.
All I know is before my wife got her Lexus,she had a Subie GT and they told her the same thing.So she buys 4 Nokia's. Good bye Subaru. Who said ,"$185.00 for a Trek bike tire?"That's a shocker. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

I don't actually know the "rule" on a 328xi, but on a Subie it was "no more than 1/4" variance in CIRCUMFERENCE (not diameter). So these AWD systems are fairly sensitive to this seems to me.

busiris · September 2011

Point well taken, but from one with a background in statistics, the relatively few (but highly vocal) complaints probably aren't that significant overall.

Case in point... When the iPhone 4 first came out, it was blasted with complaints about reception issues... Again, highly vocal and public.

Now, I haven't done any research on it, but on the surface, it seems Apple hasn't suffered from those complaints.

Lots of folks also moan and complain about BMW losing it's way by equipping the majority of it's US fleet with auto transmissions, but the company is having record sales.

It's easy to fall into a trap of forming an opinion based on insufficient information, and I am as guilty as anyone of doing it.

But, like an old statistics professor taught me years ago, when there are millions of samples, a handful of points on a graph don't necessarily translate into a trend.

Well, that's my opinion.
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rayainsw · September 2011

In late 2006, shortly after driving one of the first BMW 335i Coupes in the area [ at an introductory event, near Atlanta ] I chose to order a new Corvette  with Run Flat Tires.

Not my first choice for tires  but I had no issues in 30,000+ miles of [ um ] somewhat spirited driving.

I am aware of the issues and the risks, but this time ordered a 2011 BMW 335iS for European Delivery  with Run Flat Tires.

Essentially, as with the Corvette, my choice offered more positives and fewer negatives [ the RFTs ] than any other available option  for MY particular set of personal priorities.

YMMV.
- Ray
2 weeks to pick-up  in Munich . . .

infinitimn · September 2011

I hit a deep pothole at night on my street two weeks ago in my '11 335i conv. with 3,500 miles. I had reported two of them to my town three days earlier but it was raining heavily and I didn't see the one I hit because it was filled with rainwater. So the next time I drove the car I noticed serious vibration at 55+mph. Took it to the dealer who said the tires were fine but both right side rims were bent, the front rim with a w and the back rim flattened. Told me the back might be repairable but the front not. Tires are 18" Continental pro Contact all season RFTs. I got a '10 328i conv. loaner with Bridgestone RFTs. They are horribly noisy.

I asked SA if BMW had a TSB out for the rims/tires combo as they are totally unsuitable for cars sold in the northeastern US. He suggested Kevlar rims!

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

or how about tank treads?

I'm wondering if you can claim this damage on your insurance, as a road hazard claim?

kyfdx · September 2011

Would that be under comprehensive or collision? Once you pay the deductibles and chance having a chargeable claim.... I'd say it wouldn't be worth it..

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

Yeah that sounds right...highway department's not responsible, BMW is not responsible and the insurance company will punish you for making them responsible. :P

busiris · September 2011

I can't say for other states, but in SC you can get repaid from the dept. that is in charge of that particular road's maintenance (some roads are locally maintained, others by the state) for tire/wheel/suspension damage if you take the time to get a police report on the incident.

In fact, the local news had a story on a couple of months ago about that very topic.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

I could see that if the pothole were truly atrocious. A hole deep enough could wipe out any wheel on any car.

infinitimn · September 2011

A pothole that could ruin two rims is atrocious by definition. The total cost is within my $1,000 deductible. But here is the kicker -- a couple of days after hitting the PH the Check Gas Cap light and Service Engine Soon lights came on. Then went off. Took two days for the dealer to check it out and finally found there was a rodent nest near the fuel vent line and they had chewed into the line causing a slow leak. Another $900 in repairs. I've got to find a way to keep the critters out of my garage, and to use the car more often.

The car is not a lemon but it does have bad Karma -- with 176 miles on the ODO I was stopped at a stop sign minding my own business and was hit across the front end by another car, causing about $10K damage.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

Ah accidents like that are just part of the totally random nature of our lives. Wrong place, wrong time.

zerg1 · September 2011

I took my 325XI into the dealer for an inspection. The dealer showed me that all four of my RFT tires had worn down to the belt on the inside wall of the tire. Not the outside of the tire but the inside of the tire - all four tires... How could a tire wear down on the inside wall of the tire, let alone all four tires? I was very suspicious about how this happened. Even though I had four Run Flat Tires on my car, the internal belt of the tires were exposed on the inside portion of the tire walls. As I was leaving the dealership, the mechanic who had looked at my car (not the Manager of the shop) came up to me and told me that all four of my tires had 16 Lb of pressure! Not 32 or 34lb's (or whatever the standard is), but 16 pounds of pressure - on each tire! Could that be why the tires wore down to the belt on all four tires? I brought this to the attention of the service center Manager at the BMW dealership and he said "what do you want me to do about it". I asked him about the tire pressure and why the vehicle did not display a low tire pressure - on all four tires, mind you, and I was told that the tire pressure sensors on the car measure all four tire air pressures and average them out. If all tires have the same pressure then no alert is activated - such as all four tires having normal air pressure or all four tires having a very low 16 pounds of pressure (pretty stupid if you ask me). Now, not only did all four tires have 16lb's of pressure - how do all four tires lose pressure - evenly - over a period of time - with all tires losing pressure equally??? All I can think of is that when I last took the car into the BMW dealership, the dealership should have checked the tire pressure on all four tires... I guess they did not do that - or they were too inept to check tire pressure on a standard vehicle maintenance checkup... My Run flat tires were evedentally running flat all the time - thus causing excessive wear on the inside wall of the tires where no one can see the damage. I could have been killed as well as my family if those tires blew out while driving. And then for the dealership to NOT take any responsibility for the low air pressure on all 4 tires is negligent. What the Hell !!!

shipo · September 2011

I take it you have an older 325xi model; yes, no?

FWIW, there have been a number of different methodlolgies for implementing TPMS systems; it sounds like the system on your car does in fact measure differential rolling speeds which it can then use to figure out which one tire out of a group is low on pressure. Said another way, if all four of your tires were losing pressure at about the same rate (not at all impossible), then the TPMS system wouldn't catch the fact that the tires were low.

Long story short, it is the vehicle owner who is reponsible for keeping the tires inflated up to spec.

zerg1 · September 2011

Very old - 2006. Hmmm... Have you ever seen all four tires lose pressure at the same pace within a year after having the tires installed? Personally, I have never seen that nor can I believe that had happened. Of course, maybe the planets all lined up and the Aztec calendar will be correct too and the earth will end in 2012. Seriously, when you count on the BMW dealership to keep your car in good running order - you don't expect all tires to lose the same amount of air at the same rate of pressure over a period of time.

zerg1 · September 2011

I should also add that I purchased the car in 2008 (with the new RFT tires installed by the dealer) and I had to replace all four tires one year later because of the damage to the inside wall of all four tires. Oh well - at least they did not blow on the thruway...

shipo · September 2011

A 2006 325xi does in fact have the "older" TPMS system which uses the ABS system to calculate if a tire is low.

FWIW, I've had several cars which have had tires which lose air at about the same rate; granted I've never waited long enough before checking them for the pressure to get down to sixteen pounds, but I don't think this is at all outside of the realm of possibility. Keep in mind the TPMS system does allow for a several pound variance between tires before it triggers a light or an alarm (otherwise youd be getting an alarm all of the time; my current cars have a six pound variance), and what might well have happened is that the tires all lost pressure within the tolerance of the system down to sixteen pounds (which I assume is probably the floor for your tire/wheel setup baring an actual puncture).

I've never/ever expected my dealership to bear the full responsibility for maintaining my car; I simply don't have the time to be bringing it in every month for a checkup. If you don't either bring your car in that often, or check the pressure yourself that often, then the responsibility for keeping pressure up to snuff is yours and yours alone.

blueroad · September 2011

One possible answer to this mystery is that either a dealer or an owner had a broken tire pressure gauge, so 16 looked like 32 across the board. Statistically, the chances of being set wrong is far more likely than four tires bleeding down to 16 in unison.

shipo · September 2011

My theory is that they did not in fact bleed down in unison, but bled down within the tolerance of the system to the 16psi floor. Given the stiff sidewalls of the RFTs, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that once down to 16psi, the pressure will go no lower unless there is an actual puncture.

johnsam · September 2011

Your wear problem is common with RFT's
I ran them 2 times on a 2003 330i & 2 times on a 2006 330i. NEVER AGAIN !!!
After the 2nd set "prematurely" showed metal, I switched to Michelin Sport Plus staying with the larger rears (Sports Package). Not only is the initial price less, but the wear is longer. I have run the conventionals for 10 months now and see NO WEAR at all even though I have approx. 12,000 miles on them. (Of course I carry a "donut" spare and tools and air pump just in case.
I would NEVER return to RFTs. Those who will say that RFTs have improved will not be argued with. I am so much happier with the Michelins.

Thanks

highlandpete · September 2011

As above, explained by shipo.

The wear you describe is typical of running low pressure. Will occur on the 'loaded' camber side of the tire, the load is taken by the sidewall rather than the whole tire.

HighlandPete

rayainsw · September 2011

I just completed European Delivery of a new 335iS delivered with Michelin Pilots.

In just over 1,000 miles of driving on a wide variety of roads, I found the ride [ even with these fairly low profile 18 RFTs ] to be absolutely perfect  at any speed and on every surface we encountered.

YMMV.
- Ray
Happy BMW driver . . .

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

I have to say that whoever serviced this car should have spotted the low tire pressure. My service guy checks things like this at every service on my MINI. If his boss sees him breezing through a safety check, he's going to get flak for that, too.

busiris · October 2011

Long story short, it is the vehicle owner who is reponsible for keeping the tires inflated up to spec.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, autos have become so "self-reliant and self-reporting" in the last few years, that many (through no fault of their own) have become accustomed to "no messages/warning lights" means "no problems".

TPS systems are a great example of systems that are mis-represented as "fail-safe" monitoring systems, when that was never their design. Yet, many car companies/salesmen sell them as exactly that, so its not unreasonable for an owner that isn't familiar with the system's inner workings to make that assumption.

The bottom line is this....

Read your owner's manual. These systems are explained in detail there, and there is information there that will tell you what a system "will and will not" do for the car/driver.

In my experience, probably less that 10% actually take the time to look at the manual. I doubt if most folks would even notice if the car didn't come with one any more....

badswing · October 2011

very frustrated with the concept. all i do is deal with the tire light on any of my 4 bmw's!!!!(z4 128 135 and x3). ok concept issue: wedding 250 miles away. need to be there in 5 hrs. light comes on. what do i do? miss the wedding??? ANY scenario where you have to be somewhere at a certain time that is more than the 150 miles at 50 mph will get you there, WHAT HAPPENS???? you miss the meeting, wedding, game, or whatever else is important to you.....how are people not revolting against the concept. i just tried to get home from 200 miles away when the light came on: towed at 25 miles to go. this is not even considering how bad the tires perform, or last. all i do is replace these pos's! help

larry175 · October 2011

DUMP THE RUN FLATS AND REPLACE WITH GO FLATS. GET AAA AND BUY A SPARE AND JACK AND PUT THE RUN FLAT GARBAGE BEHIND YOU.

rt4 · October 2011

Made the mistake of stopping by the local BMW dealer a few weeks ago-----darn, what beautiful cars!
So, will more than likely be getting serious about a 328x in next few weeks.
Am from old school so am not very enamored about the run flats----- will drive from local dealer to nearest tire store to pick up spare and throw in trunk.
Question: can I run a donut spare with rest of tires being full size? I only ask because if any of you look at some of the Suburu forums, the drive train is very critical of difference in tire diameters-----assume this is not so with BMW due to their type of AWD.
Speaking of that, hate to get off the run flat on this forum, but can one of you explain exactly how this 4wd system operates-----i.e. computer (electric) signals? mechicanical sensors? Also, if the rear wheels loose, say, 100% of their traction, will the fronts wheels then assume that much?
Reason for asking----- I live west of Denver in mountains-----some very serious hills and curves (including my 200' uphill driveway), and I would be getting snowtires for sure, but still would like to hear from some of you with practical experience in poor winter conditions.
Appreciate your wading thru all of this, but real life info is so much better than a salesman or service advisor ( I've talked to both).

kyfdx · October 2011

BMW makes a donut spare that is full diameter... Same rolling circumference as the stock tires... It's just skinny..

So, that won't affect your AWD..

BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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