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Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala
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Yes they have lost money recently on North American auto manufacturing only. Ford Credit made up for this loss, and other worldwide operations were profitable. Shortly after that press release, Ford surprised Wall Street with a much better than expected quarter, and, once again they were profitable for all of 2005 fiscal year which ended in third quarter last year.
Yes, Ford has profitability issues on North American manufacturing operations, but all the doom and gloom prognostications about them going under are much much exaggerated. That's my only point, so don't read more into what I posted than that.
Plus, Ford is gonna have a new 3.5L that should put the 500 more inline with the foreign cars in terms of power. It is interesting that people do not mention how the other lack when compared to its interrior. IMO the interrior style of the 500 is also better than either avalon or Azera. 500 has a nav system that the Azera does not.
The problem is, US manufacturers need to improve their cost situation without leaving the US, the interriors of both the 500 and the impala are very good, IMO, but they do not finish the job on the side doors, and it leaves a strange feeling that one does not get in the foreign cars. Still, they are more than worth looking at, and I think both 500 and Impala sell more than either Avalon or Azera, but im not sure.
The Impala with the V8 has it all over both Av and Azera.
The Impala SS, BTW, not any quicker than the Av (they are very close) and early returns are showing that these DoD (displacement on demand) are not really effective with mpg, read things like 14 city/ and 18 overall on the SS. The 300C, BTW, the same problem and still only about .5 sec. quicker to 60. Think the engine of choice probably that 3.9/242 hp for the Impala.
GM announced yesterday an additional $2 billion in losses for 05 - how will they ever be able to compete under those conditions. FYI, the Azera (designed and made in Alabama)
and the Avalon (designed in Calif/made in Ky.) are every bit as 'American' (many GM/Ford/Chrysler products spend time in Mexico and Canada), and somehow both Toyota and Hyundai can keep costs in line with American labor and suppliers. The problem is maybe spelled UAW along with some antiquated production facilities and techniques.
I've looked inside the Ford 500 and while the interior is much improved over many of Ford's past products, it's not something that draws one into the car. The best interiors I've seen on American cars (in class) would be the Chrysler 300 and the Buick Lucerne. Ford has improved greatly, but still has a ways to go. Actually, I would opt for a top of the line Ford Fusion which maybe smaller, but has more horsepower than the 500 and better styling both on the exterior and interior.
Of the 3 you mentioned, the Avalon will sell more than the Azera or the 500 simply because it's a recognized make and model. The 500 and the Azera are both new, so there's no history consumers can base anything on.
I still have no idea why people fuss over the 500s interior- dinky instrumentation, Fisher-Price button feel, vinyl covered doors, oddly thick and unattractive steering wheel.... the Fusions interior is much nicer...
~alpha
i really do not believe avaons interrior is the same as 500's, meybe with the rear seat reclined all the way back, but the point is, the 500 has the biggest rear seat and trunk. It is also higher off the ground and easier to get in and out of. The front seats are about the same as the avalon.
the only space it lacks is power, and that will be addressed soon.
as for the impala, if it is bland then the avalon is beyond that. The fact that you can have one with v8 says alot. And if you don't want a v8, but still want it feature laiden, you can get the v6 will most of the bells and whistles, and still pay less than the avalon.
That's one thing I really love about the Five Hundred, and there just aren't any other sedans out there that I'm aware of that are similar in this regard.
It seems about right to me. Not so low to make a great sports car, but not so high to make a great off-road vehicle. But just about perfect for the average adult to get in and out of easily and comfortably.
Actually, I'm not positive the S80 has a seat-height as high as the 500 or not . . . . but I'll take your word on it.
If I'm not mistaken, the Five Hundred is also a larger vehicle than the S80.
The 500 would never sell over there, too big for their roads, they do have taxes based on engine displacement, and they have a different idea of how a vehicle should drive. So Ford and many other manufacturers, base entire product selections on as few 'platforms' as possible - making whatever size adjustments needed to suit particular markets. The S80 is an extremely large car over there, almost mid-size over here. Nissan is probably the best at this right now, their FM platform the basis for all kinds of offerings from the Altima, to SUVs, all the way up to the Infiniti M. I know we've been thru this - but, both the 500 and the Fusion are good designs however "European" they may be in origin, they just need some more guts.
That's what I thought, based on what I've seen. But I have the Freestyle instead of the XC.
The 500 would never sell over there, too big for their roads
It seems pretty wide over here, too. Length is OK, though. About the same as the Taurus.
they just need some more guts.
So far, the Freestyle and Five Hundred have had more than enough "guts" to get me around practically everybody. I suspect I'm more aggressive in my driving than the target demographics of either vehicle, as well.
Not that I wouldn't have bought a 3.5L if it weren't a whole lot more money, of course. But I certainly won't feel the need to "upgrade" to one with the new 3.5L when they come out sometime next year.
Given that they can seem to design more powerful engines these days without sacrificing much on gas mileage, I'd think they could've kept the engine at 3.0L and maybe increased it to 225hp, and actually improved mpg beyond what the 270hp 3.5L engines are getting.
Now THAT'S what I'd probably rather have these days. If oil and gasoline prices stay elevated, I suspect we'll start to see that trend at some point. At which time gasoline prices will probably go back to $1 per gallon. :P
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109613#18
"Our test car posted a swift 7.2-second 0-60-mph time and a 15.5-second quarter-mile, right in line with the numbers we've gotten out of the Avalon, which has a 268-hp, 3.5-liter V6. Interestingly, the Azera is also a half-second quicker to 60 than a V8-equipped Buick Lucerne, which we tested the same day."
Heres some crash test data on head injury on the driver (higher is worse)
2006 Toyota Avalon - 342 (5 star)
2006 Chevy Impala - 411 (5 star)
2006 Ford 500 - 335 (5 star)
2006 Hyundai Azera - 698 (4 star)
Other areas are also worse with the Azera.
This is a huge disappointment with the Azera and, in my opinion, falls into the "false advertising" area since their very own Azera brochure states that the Azera has "class-leading" safety when, in fact, just the opposite is true.
Azera Crash Test Results
Ford 500=40ft
Chevy Impala=39.6ft
Hyundai Azera=37.4ft
Toyota Avalon=36.9ft
Thanks for any imput.
cn
It can be somewhat important, though, in backing OUT of a parking space.
I'm much more interested in the IIHS tests, and Hyundai's performance here has been improving in the recent past.
To the person interested in manuverability- check out the Azera/Avalon comparo in the March 06 issue of Motor Trend. They did actual instrumented testing of steering response, feedback, etc. I recognize that you are more concerned with tight manuvers such as parking, but you may find it interesting.
~alpha
But that was my point. Just imagine how much the gas mileage could've been improved had they designed it around 200 hp, instead.
In today's environment, I'll bet a lot of people would rather have even better mpg than those extra horses. Especially since they don't really use them.
so that added ability (power)to get out of somebody's way
I'd venture to say it's quite rare for the power to be used that way. In fact, it's much more likely that power would be used to get INTO somebody's way.
The NHTSA tests are not "antiquated" but have been scientifically refined over the years. They are now quite precise objective tests. They don't just stick a dummy in a car and ram it into a wall. They spend weeks preparing the vehicle and everything is precisely monitored.
I find it funny how, if the NHTSA tests come back positive, people praise them and plaster the results on posters and brochures as selling points; but when the tests come back negative, they say they are "antiquated", misleading, and prone to error. LOL
However. . . I DO feel that the IIHS tests are more "realistic" in that they attempt to replicate true-to-life crashes (offset and rear) rather than just a straight crash into a barrier. So, I give more credence to the IIHS tests. But in no way will those tests "replace" or "offset" the NHTSA tests. They just supplement them.
But we DO need to wait until ALL the tests are in before making a final determination and comparison. But those few tests that ARE in thus far are not encouraging for the Azera.
certainly quite rare, and happened to me last fall - moving along the left lane of the freeway at about 70, extremely slow merging car (maybe 40) decides not only to cut the guy off I'm in the process of passing but also go all the way over into my left lane. I nailed the accelerator, while simutaneously swerving into the break down lane. Cleared this idiot rather easily and may have gotten close to 100 (doesn't take long in an Avalon) before I let off. Ended up being a muliple car accident behind me. Convinced I couldn't have done this without 1) some serious HP, 2) a car with some reasonable evasive capabilities and 3) many cars with stability control enabled.
All that said, you are certainly right, may never have to do that again!
I suspect (given what you typed) that it was the swerving that saved your bacon more than the extra ponies. Then again, you don't really give enough details to be certain of that.
What you shoulda done was carefully bump that other driver off the road (onto the break down lane). Surely with all that extra power and handling you coulda managed that without damaging any other vehicles, right? Now you KNOW that I'm just funnin' with ya, right?
I think a combination of both since the guy I should have hit was actually attempting to pull out from behind another crazie that had almost stopped at the end of the entrance ramp. Since all this was happening a few hundred yards ahead of me, I had some time to decide what to do.
Had I been in my previous ride, an '02 Suburban, would have had no choice but to explore your 'bump' theory, and likely could have 'taken out' that 3000 lb. car with my 6000 lb. truck. Weight usually 'wins' in encounters like this. Did stop up the road and walked on back to what was now a 5 car accident scene - miraculously nobody seriously hurt. Have had 2 calls so far for 'depositions' - hope that it doesn't end up being another case of everybody that was involved suing each other - we do have a 'TV lawyer' problem down here!
Please elaborate on the scientific refinements that NHSTA has instituted over the years. I am not educated on them, and would like to be. On the surface, it seems to be a very similar test to the one that was begun in '78.
Are they misleading? They sure can be! Where on NHSTA is structural integrity mentioned? Is this not part of the picture? How can a car earn a five star rating in side impact, but inflict fatal head injury on a dummy? (Is that not misleading? OH! But they disclaim it by stating *****-Saftey Concern! Yea, a fatal head blow is most def. a safety concern!
~alpha
However, don't simply rely on the numbers. Figure it out for yourself. I think every test drive should include one u-turn on a 4 lane road so you can see for yourself what the car can/will do. Also, try parking and backing out of a spot in a busy parking lot. Backing out is usually the bigger problem as you can adjust to the turning radius in parking a car. Ask yourself whether you're going to like having to rotate between reverse and drive to get out of a parking spot.
I test drove the Avalon and Azera and they both passed these tests for me. I have not test driven the 500 or Impala so I cannot comment on how they perform.
I had the oportunity to get the '06 Sonata LX fully loaded for $17,800, throw in the taxes, tags and title and the walk out price would have been closer to $20K.
I'm glad I waited and got the Azera, I needed the extra leg room & trunk space.
also here is my prediction.
hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america
i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
also here is my prediction.
hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america
i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
also here is my prediction.
hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america
i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
also here is my prediction.
hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america
i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
But seriously, while I wouldn't put money on that right yet I can see how it can happen.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In addition the 40% offset test while being more realistic, as per the commentary on the IIHS website, also puts more stress on the frame and the occupants. The frame is stressed from multiple angles while the occupants are thrown about at differing angles as well not just forward and backward.
Then there are the side impact tests which the NHTSA admits are not very useful and need to be redesigned. See the IIHS website for a description of the differences in the two testing methods.
The rollover criteria is not a test it's a mathmatical model that predicts how a vehicle might react based on it's wheelbase and center of gravity.
Finally the NHTSA has no testing criteria at all for 'whiplash' injuries.
I think outdated is a good description of the testing at the NHTSA. It's basically a pass/fail test. If a vehicle does poorly there it should probably be dropped from consideration. 4 or 5 stars IMO is a passing grade, subject to further testing at the IIHS.
Although Toyota's Web site led me to believe I might do this when I talked to dealers I found that I would have to take other options, including a sun roof, and that Toyota in my region would not supply the car otherwise. This reminded me of Henry Ford's comment about his Model T "You can have any color you like as long as it's black". I thought Toyota's attitude to their potential customers was too arrogant for my liking and I decided to take another look at the Azera.
My main concerns about the Azera were safety (four stars), reliability, and fuel economy. For safety I concluded that the tests were on one sample of each car only and that without standard deviations, which would unrealistically require a number of cars to be crashed, the results are open to some doubt. Although,the data for each car were far enough apart to make me suspect that the Avalon is somewhat safer. However the G rating published for the Azera by the IIHS gave me some comfort about the Azera's safety.
For fuel economy I calculated from the EPA ratings that for our typical 4500 miles highway and 3000 miles suburban driving per year the Azera would use an extra 52 gal/year, or $156 at $3/gallon. The best quote I could get for the Avalon Touring with the minimum options available here was $31,045 including sales tax and doc. fees. The corresponding price for the Azera was $28,870 for the Azera Limited with the Ultimate option, a considerably better optioned car than the the Avalon Touring quoted. The interest on the $2,175 price difference would pay for a good part of the extra gas and I'd be over $2,000 better off with the Azera.
Consumer's Reports give the Avalon an "Average" reliability rating and the Azera is too new to rate. I noted that the Hyundai Sonata now also has an "Average" rating and I thought it reasonable to expect the Azera to achieve this rating also. On reading the Avalon and Azera forums I have not noted any serious complaints about the Azera by owners, this is not the case for the Avalon.
Anyway, I tested the Azera again and this time liked the way it drove as well as the Avalon. Also subjectively I preferred the styling, conveniences, and interior of the Azera and I bought it. The dealer was helpful, courteous, and low key. So far we like the car very much. As always only time will tell if we've made the right decision. As for resale value, we keep cars for at least 10 years, so unless the Azera turned out to be a lemon, resale value is not important to us.
Some software issue, as I understand.
Those Azera's are sharp, but the dealer will give great incentives on the Sonota.
Hope that information is helpful regarding the Avalon.
:lemon:
Good luck
Hyundai Reports 2006 Record April Sales
FOUNTAIN VALLEY, Calif., May 2, 2006 -- Hyundai Motor America today announced April sales of 41,025, a new record for the month. Hyundai's sedans continued to lead the charge. Azera sales were up 82 percent over XG350/Azera sales in April 2005, and Sonata sales grew by 46 percent over last year.
"We are very encouraged by the strength of our sedans, with Sonata and Azera showing excellent growth over last year," said Mark Barnes, vice president, National Sales, Hyundai Motor America. "The combination of value and safety continues to resonate with consumers."
All Hyundai cars and sport utility vehicles sold in the U.S. are covered by The Hyundai Advantage, America's Best Warranty. Hyundai buyers are protected by a 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty, a 5-year/60,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, a 7-year/unlimited-mile anti-perforation warranty and 5-year/unlimited-mile roadside assistance protection.
Following is the sales breakdown for April 2006:
CARLINE APR/2006 APR/2005 CY2006 CY2005
ACCENT 3,491 4,022 8,256 13,269
SONATA 15,716 10,790 58,587 38,931
ELANTRA 9,121 11,271 34,906 38,106
TIBURON 1,674 2,124 5,337 5,984
SANTA FE 3,639 6,129 14,091 22,218
XG350/AZERA 2,601 1,427 8,861 5,210
TUCSON 4,657 5,195 16,849 17,252
ENTOURAGE 126 0 126 0
TOTAL 41,025 40,958 147,013
Consumers reports is supposedly doing a full review in July if you want to wait a month.
Azera has 8 airbags including rear side and full head curtains.
FRONTAL OFFSET TEST
OVERALL EVALUATION: Good
Structure/safety cage Injury measures Restraints/dummy kinematics
Head/neck Chest Leg/foot, left Leg/foot, right
Important: Frontal crash test ratings can be compared only among vehicles of similar weight.
Test details:
The Hyundai Azera was introduced in the 2006 model year as a replacement for the Hyundai XG350. Frontal ratings are assigned by the Institute based on a test conducted by Hyundai as part of frontal crash test verification.
Restraints/dummy kinematics — Dummy movement was well controlled. During rebound, the dummy's head hit the roof rail.
Injury measures — Measures taken from the head, neck, and chest indicate low risk of injuries to these body regions in a crash of this severity. Forces on the right tibia indicate that injuries to the lower leg would be possible. Head acceleration from the roof rail hit was low.
Additional features:
Side airbags: front and rear head curtain airbags and front and rear seat-mounted torso airbags
Electronic stability control
Antilock brakes
Toyota Avalon
2000-04 models
FRONTAL OFFSET TEST
OVERALL EVALUATION: Good
Structure/safety cage Injury measures Restraints/dummy kinematics
Head/neck Chest Leg/foot, left Leg/foot, right
Important: Frontal crash test ratings can be compared only among vehicles of similar weight.
Test details:
The Toyota Avalon was redesigned for the 2000 model year.
Restraints/dummy kinematics — Dummy movement was well controlled. During rebound, the dummy's head hit the roof rail.
Injury measures — Measures taken from the dummy indicate a low risk of any significant injuries in a crash of this severity. Head acceleration from the roof rail hit was low.
http://www.informedforlife.org/
Check it out!
Great review of the Azera SE in this month's Car and Driver, except for the abysmal fuel efficiency they logged. Lots of car for $25K (though not as many standard features as one would expect from a top of the line Hyundai).
bsparks294, as with any car, there are those that love their Avalons and those that don't. Although I havent driven the Avalon for extended periods of time, I never thought the hesitation issue was very significant, and I've observed similar hesitation in other transmissions which interact with the electronically controlled throttle, most notably, in my parents' '05 Legacy. Of note is that Toyota's new 6A used in the Camry (which itself has experienced a manufacturing issue-remedied in current production), is claimed to respond to throttle input and kickdown more than twice as quickly as the older 5A.
~alpha
has an outside temperature display, and a
self dimming rear mirror? Option or otherwise.
Right on the money! I will never buy a Toyota because of The Toyota "take it or leave it" attitude.
All the Toyota recalls in the last 6 months prove one point: Toyota "quality" is grossly overated. Maybe five years ago, Toyota had the quality edge. No more. They are just like any other manufacturer trying to churn out new models and capture market share.
The latest recall (steering problems) should convince folks to stop overpaying for Toyotas. Save your money.