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Shock and Strut Replacement -- Cheap, OEM, or Upgrade?

135

Comments

  • a2rabidhabita2rabidhabit Member Posts: 5
    I talked with Sears staff yesterday, and they said that there might be some extra stiffness during the "break-in period" for the struts—about 2,000 miles, according to them. They also said they would check to see if the struts had been installed correctly (maybe something was "overtightened") and to see if Monroe had sent them the correct struts—i.e., those for my Legacy versus those for a heavier Outback. I'm planning to take the car back tomorrow.

    Before that, I'm wondering if they're right about a break-in period for struts (I know that my Legacy didn't start out riding this harshly when I bought it new) and if there's anything in the installation that could have been "overtightened" to affect the ride. I'd appreciate any advice.

    BTW, I put Bilsteins on a '69 Dodge Dart V-8 I owned. A foolish attempt to turn chicken feathers into chicken soup, I know in retrospect, but that car handled great!
  • rincon1840rincon1840 Member Posts: 7
    ZX3, car has 124K. Front spring broke. Purchased SVT suspension (f/struts, r/shocks, f/r springs, bump stops, sway bar) and two strut bearings for about $350. SVT suspensions are surplus right now, since SVT Focus is no more. Labor of $300 at a local, reputable shop. Eibach, etc, were considerably more expensive. Checked other auto parts stores; low-end products still would have been more expensive. Suspension parts were bought via internet (BAT Inc).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, no, we aren't buying the "break in period for struts" song and dance.

    But to be fair, they may have sold you the correct shock (correct in that it fits and is shown as correct in their books) and been acting in good faith in doing so---it just might be that this is not the shock for your needs, or that meets your OEM specs.
  • a2rabidhabita2rabidhabit Member Posts: 5
    Sears was cooperative. The struts turned out to be the correct Sensa-Tracs for my car, and they were installed properly, but Sears offers "Satisfaction Guaranteed," and I was very dissatisfied (and the Sears customer service rep could see/feel why after a short test drive). After checking with the Monroe district rep, Sears offered to return my money if I had other struts installed and returned the Monroes to them.

    I have a choice between getting KYBs or Subaru OEM struts for about the same price. Do you have any recommendation of one or the other? (My inclination is to go with the OEMs, but I'm curious to know if there's a reason to favor the KYBs.)

    Thanks again for all the help with this really stressful problem.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I guess I'll answer your question with a question. How long did the original OEMs last you? If they are approx. the same price as KYB and went a long time the first time, I'd go with OEM then.
  • a2rabidhabita2rabidhabit Member Posts: 5
    Just to wrap up... I went with the OEMs, and everything's back to normal. They cost just $20 more to buy and install than the Monroes. (The shop who installed them told me that the KYBs would have been stiffer than the Monroes, so the decision became easy.)

    Sears took the Monroes back and refunded my payment, and my teeth aren't rattling every time I hit a bump now.

    Thanks again for all your help in straightening this out!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One thing about OEM--you might pay more, but at least the parts fit and they work.
  • fhh1fhh1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2000 Ford Explorer with 115K miles shocks have never been replaced. I was told my shocks were leaking. The ride does feel rough. After getting an estimate for $750 and doing some research and learning that replacing shocks MYSELF may not be too bad, I am considering taking the leap. Should I replace the shocks?

    Also I am considering Bilstein shocks based on some info on forums. Any reason not to use Bilstein. Would anyone recommend another brand for a 2000 Explorer? I am looking for a good value on the shocks.

    Finally, any other suggestions to improve the ride?

    Thanks
    Francis
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Bilsteins are GREAT shocks but I'm wondering if they might be a bit of overkill for you and your Explorer.

    Yes 115K is more than enough mileage to justify replacing the shocks.

    If you plan to keep the vehicle a long time, and you enjoy great handling, Bilsteins will certainly serve you well. Beware of cheap, chain-store shocks. Quality shocks are not only for ride, they help with tire wear and stability on the road.

    You could replace them yourself but you may need a few special tools, and you'll have to be sure to work SAFELY.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    I had Bilsteins installed on our 94 Town Car, front only due to rear air shocks and they improved the ride, stability, & handling significantly.

    AJ-USA, San Diego, provided two for $157.48 inc'l freight 11 June 07 & installed by the local Midas shop.

    Because Bilstein doesn't provide shocks and struts for 95 T Birds, AJ-USA sent KYB (GR-2) shocks and struts. They too, improved the ride. The four shocks and struts were $154.90 25 May 07. Midas installed these too.

    http://ajusa.com
  • guiermoguiermo Member Posts: 3
    Embarrassed to admit it, but I didn't know what a strut was until the clunking sound in the rear of my Toyota Celica was found to be annoying by my father-in-law when he visited. We began to DIY. At that point, the car had 252,000 miles on it! Since that time I discovered that it is recommended that struts be replaced at some point after about 60,000 miles. I think these things must tend to wear out slowly, depending on the road conditions, but have a definite life. The degradation of struts/shocks is gradual and hardly noticeable, particularly if one has a loud radio or gets used to strange noises quickly. And it is indeed important to replace worn struts, even if you think your only reason is to protect your investment in tires. I can see now why my new tires wore out in such a short time.

    Regarding the time to do a replacement of a strut: with zero experience, but with reasonable tools and a helper who had some idea, it took me most of two days to replace the first one, and another day to bend a new brake line and finally get the fluid to stop leaking. A total novice like me could easily make this into a real job, but I imagine that a seasoned tech, using air tools, could do one in an hour or so. For example, on the second rear strut, I had the original out in exactly one hour. It is somewhat tricky getting things to fit back properly when reassembling; takes creative manipulation of unyielding metal parts. Plus, the repair manual instructions were not truly complete. An alignment is absolutely necessary before this job is complete.

    I learned a lot from the experience and just got the parts for changing out the front struts, which might be a little easier because access to the top mounting bracket is exposed in the engine compartment. From my perspective, doing it myself is now a matter of long-term survival. I cannot afford to pay someone a couple thousand dollars to replace four struts when I could do it myself for about $500. I just have to get more efficient.
  • guiermoguiermo Member Posts: 3
    With your experience you should be able to answer a burning question I have about struts I am working on. When I removed the original RR strut from my Celica, there was a cylindrical metal piece, a bushing or a spacer, about one inch long and about a half inch in OD. It was at the top mounting plate. When I got the replacement Monroe strut, it didn't have such a bushing, so I used the old one when reassembling the strut. I put it on after the top mounting plate, just before the damper nut. I need to know if that was the proper thing to do. I had it aligned yesterday and the mechanic didn't say anything was wrong. I am assuming that if the alignment went well, the bushing didn't harm anything. There was nothing in the repair manual about such a bushing. There was another one on the LR strut and I reassembled it the same way. TIA if you are able to help me.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    I am not familiar with your Celica, but I'm going to assume that the mounting for most strut/shock assemblies are similar.

    Your top mounting plate bolts to the body,right? The one's I've seen have a heavy, stiff rubber insert/grommet/bushing with a hole through the center. The hole is where the threaded end of the shock goes, right? That hole usually has a metal sleeve (bushing) in it that prevents the shock rod(terminolgy?) from rubbing directly against and wearing the rubber. It sounds like the cylindrical metal piece you are describing is that bushing. It's part of the mounting plate, and probably not supplied with the shock itself.
  • guiermoguiermo Member Posts: 3
    Thank you, yes, you and I are talking about the same basic part. This is about the rear struts. No bushing came with the mounting plate (bearing).

    In my Celica, the old struts only had a metal sleeve (bushing, there was NO rubber), through which the shock piston (rod) was inserted, i.e., the threaded end was inserted. I re-used that part because a new bushing did not come with the new "strut." There were no instructions in the Celica repair manual (Haynes) or with the new strut talking about this part, so I wasn't sure it was needed or not, and if it was needed, I wasn't sure whether it should go onto the shock rod prior to or after the mounting plate (I forgot to take a photo of the "before" condition of the old struts). My decision was to go ahead and use the old bushing, and to put the mounting plate on the rod before the bushing, just before the damper nut.

    I am seeking verification that what I did was proper or not. A shop did an alignment yesterday, and did not complain that it couldn't be aligned, so I assume it might be ok, but still want to understand what is actually right, and learn what that bushing is for, so I could understand what would happen if the bushing had not been used.

    BTW: the strut boot (kit) had a plastic "bumper" up top that replaced the one that was on the original strut, but the original one fit completely over the shoulder of the threaded part, onto the slick part of the stainless steel of the piston. This means that the new plastic bumper fits around the shoulder and therefore about 3/32 in of plastic is wedged between the mounting plate and the shoulder of the piston, holding whatever forces get transmitted at that point. That seemed a little strange to me, but all of the clunking from the rear end is now gone.

    I do appreciate your kind response, many thanks.
  • dag5dag5 Member Posts: 1
    1986 Neon with 60000 mile. Same thing just happened last week to my mother-in-law's car. She took in in for a tune-up, got it back with no suspension.

    I thought she was kidding till I drove it. Absolutely no suspension. It felt like someone had welded the shock absorbers together. The garage said it was not their problem.

    My question, did you ever get to the bottom of "What happened?" Or, who did what?
  • dexmondexmon Member Posts: 8
    Hi everyone I own a 2005 lexus ls 430 with 256,000 miles and my shocks are leaking. Lexus dealers charge almost a thousand dollars for 4 shocks. Should I buy lexus shocks when I can get KYB shocks for less than $400.00. Does anyone out there can give me some advise on what to do? I don't want to sacrifice ride comfort and also I don't know how long the KYB's will last, please let me know
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well this is kind of an iffy situation. On the one hand, for a car of this type you'd probably want something better than KYB, like Boge or Bilstein, but a) I don't think these two manufacturers make a replacement shock for your car and b) besides, you have 256K on the car already, so a huge investment might not be the best idea.

    I guess I'd go with KYB, but be prepared to sacrifice some ride comfort and durability I think. Or spring for the OEM if you plan to get another 100K out of the car and it's otherwise in really nice shape.
  • sean300sean300 Member Posts: 41
    I own a 98 es300 with 197K on the od, I am not the original owner. At about 160k, I replaced all of the struts with kyb's. I have not had a problem since. I do not understand why everyone thinks that kyb's are cheap. I mean, they appear to be of good quality and they do have a lifetime guarantee. I have not experienced any ride degradation, in fact, the ride is quite good. As for durability, I do not know since I've only had replaced 30K miles ago, but how bad can they be, again, with a lifetime guarantee? I would like to have bilstein struts too, but they do not make them for my car, and are they that much better than the other manufacturers out there?, In addition, they are very expensive. If the bilsteins are so darn good then why don't they make applications for all vehicles? Stick with the kyb's, they are fine.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Kayaba Industries in Japan has made shocks under the KYB name for over 50 years. They manufacture OEM shocks for Lexus, Infiniti, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, and Suzuki. That being said you might be replacing KYB shocks with a new set of KYB.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A lifetime guarantee really doesn't support the idea that the product is of particularly good quality. Midas mufflers have a similar arrangement, which is really saying "bring in your prematurely worn out old muffler and we'll replace it with another one of equal quality".

    I think KYB meets the demands of a substantial number of drivers but I think the product has design limitations---and you may indeed never exceed these limitations. Both a $99 and a $1000 digital camera take pretty good pictures, but......
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Hmm. If you think products like Bilstein or Edelbrock are superior to KYB, we need to take a look at the company. Kayaba Industries which markets in the US under the name of KYB far exceeds that of either Bilstein or Edelbrock.
    Kayaba Industry US

    Also a look a the types of products that they manufacture.

    Products

    All I'm saying is that due to their limited marketing efforts, the technology that this company represents is well understated. As an oem manufacturer one can understand their limited marketing efforts to the masses.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Regardless they still build to price like any other corporation. Toyota makes a Yaris and they make a Lexus LS.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Toyota makes a Yaris and they make a Lexus LS.

    True and Toyota doesn't offer a lifetime warranty on either.

    My point is that the person asking about KYB shocks has 256K on the car and doesn't want to spend $1K for replacement shocks when KYB could be had for $400. At this point any shock has to be an improvement over what is leaking now and with KYB he doesn't have to worry about shock failure for the life of the car. To me that's a deal with saving $600.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well he still does have to worry about shock failure, but he doesn't have to worry about paying for the replacement shock. But I tend to agree with you, with 256K on the car, I'd cheap out and go with the KYBs also. I'd do the same on my own car as it is also older, high miles, and not a performance vehicle.
  • dexmondexmon Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for the advice ,but not because my car has 256,000 miles do i want cheap parts on my car that will not last. What i would like to know is if KYB makes shocks for Lexus why then is thier shocks inferior?
  • dexmondexmon Member Posts: 8
    Also I use my car as a LIMO in NYC so I am very concerned about getting the same ride
  • dexmondexmon Member Posts: 8
    What i need to understand is if KYB makes shocks for Lexus under the Toyota brand name then why should the shocks that they are making for Lexus under the KYB brand name any different? Thank you for your advice
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I guess the best thing I can say is that Toyota engineers have worked out the characteristics for the OEM shocks. I have no idea how the KYBs will react to your Lexus and how you'll feel about that, because I don't know what you're used to or what you expect. My personal experience with KYB is only a database of one person so isn't valid as a judgment.

    Maybe you need to cruise our Lexus forums and see if you can find someone who's made this switch? That might help you a lot to make a decision.

    Lexus 400/430 Topic

    I'll join this discussion myself and maybe I can learn more about how successful this application is.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    KYB as an oem manufacturer makes the shocks to Lexus specifications. Not sure what specification they use to make the replacement shocks. As Shifty says you may want to check the Lexus forums to see if they offer any advice or if any have actually replaced the oems with KYB.

    My point was that from a consumer standpoint I wouldn't worry about the reliability of the KYB shocks.
  • greengaragegreengarage Member Posts: 2
    Need the above job doing. Local garage quoted $500 parts and labor, Wheel alignment not included. live North N.J. Is this a fair price ?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Depends a lot on what they put in there for parts, so it's hard to estimate. But the labor is about 2.6 hours, so where I live that alone is $300 bucks. I don't know the varying levels of quality available for your car. You may be limited in choices. You can get something inexpensive like a KYB G2 for as little as $65-$70 per strut assembly, or Monroe even cheaper, or you can get fancier with Koni Sports or Tokico.

    so you'd have to know what they are putting in there.
  • greengaragegreengarage Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for that.
  • johno1826johno1826 Member Posts: 2
    New to the forum. I have a 91 Acura Integra with 201K on it. It just started bottoming out recently, took it to my mechanic, he said it needs struts all around, costing around $600, plus $59 for alignment. I asked if the Struts were original, he said they looked like it. I bought the car in 95 with 77K on it and I've never replaced them. Just wondering if it is possible to get 200,000+ out of original struts and is $600 reasonable?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well sure you can drive the car until the struts break in half if you want. It doesn't seem likely that the would be original but sure it's possible. It rather depends not on the strut but how much sloppiness you can tolerate. I believe my struts are original at 140,000 but I am certainly aware that they are pretty worn out. But passengers have never commented.

    $600 bucks sounds fine if they are a decent shock. Prices for labor can vary considerably in different parts of the country.

    Total labor is listed at 5.4 hours. So it sounds like a pretty good deal.
  • zoomrx3zoomrx3 Member Posts: 1
    You dont have to. I have 280,000 on my stuts in my Mazda. Still original but now it is time to replace. My ride is getting too soft.
  • tschapiratschapira Member Posts: 1
    I realize I have to change my Struts on my 96 corolla; When the car hits a bump it hurts. But i don't know if I need springs and/or any other part. I want to save $ but i don't want to buy what is not needed or being sold by the mechanic. The car does not rattle, does not vibrate. The car does seem to sit lower and when I brake it will tilt a little forward. Any advice is greatly appreciated. If I need a kit, how much more would it be then just the struts?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Be sure to get the vehicle aligned, after the struts are replaced.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    To maximize profit, the manufacturer usually installed the most economical parts to get it out the door and on the ship. OEM was fine, but there are improved shocks and struts marketed by a few aftermarket parts makers and they are usually of better quality. KYB & Bilstein are just two brands I've invested in and they are worth the extra money in the long run.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Euphonium
    This is a 14 year old Corolla. If the OP cared about performance or quality, the original shocks would have been replaced long ago.......and how much more 'long run' could there be on this vehicle? They're being replaced because they have to be replaced. I'm sure anything that fits and works would be fine and 100% better than what they have now.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    KYB would be the choice then often offering superior performance at less cost than OEM.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    reading these prices for strut inserts, I miss good old shock absorbers.

    I have had to replace both rear shocks on my 2005 Odyssey (poorley designed, wear out too soon) by 50K. At least Honda paid for the 1st one under warranty.

    For the 2nd, I bougt the part at Honda (a ridiculous price. Something over $100). Local tire shop replaced it for about $30. Would have gone aftermarket, but turns out, only Honda OEM is available now.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    oh yeah, the reason I found this thread.

    I have a 2000 Acura 3.2TL. Just over 149K on it. At the last oil change (148K) the dealer reported that the RF sturt was leaking (I don't think much though, and it was fine 3K before that).

    These are original to the car (I only have had it since 146K though). Seems to ride and handle fine, no noises, and the tires are wearing perfectly (only the 2nd set, with 58K on them).

    actually, I need to look up what suspension I have. I am sure the real is multilink, so that means just plain old shocks. If the front is gold old 'bones too, won't that mean just shocks, so an easier time of it? Or do they still have strut cartridges to replace?

    Maybe I am out to lunch, but I also just though of a mcpherson strut as a fancy shock inside the coil spring, instead of mounted outside the spring!

    maybe I should crawl under the car tomorrow and look.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    With a plain old fashion shock, if the shock goes bad, the wheel still stays where it is supposed to be even if you take it off or break it in half. It will bounce around terribly, but still basically safe.

    With a strut, it does look like a shock inside of a spring. The critical difference however, is it is actually a major structural part of the suspension......one of the three attachment points. It is the attachment point, that holds the wheel in vertical position. If the strut breaks, the car collapses onto the tire in the wheel well, and you have a wreck.

    You need to align the wheels after replacing the struts. At your mileage, they're way overdue.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    At 149K your struts are on life support. You don't notice it because the deterioration has been so gradual. Once you get new ones, it'll be an eye-opener for you.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Well, going by the Shipo evaluatin method (if the car isn't bouncing, and the tires are wearing well, no problem!) I should be OK.

    But yes, new ones might improve the ride and handling, but the car is doing fine with the old ones one. Must be a testament to good suspension design.

    I did see that the KYB GR-2s are available (only about $58/each at tire rack) for the TL. The fronts are shown as struts, but the rears are shocks.

    Just have to get some install quotes for the labor, since not a chance I try it myself.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • rothvinrothvin Member Posts: 1
    I have been informed that my struts migh have to be replaced. I have 90,000 on my 1987, Tercel. Prices have been unbelievable to me at between $850 for independent mechanic to over 1,700 from a dealer. Could this be true? I have never paid over 50 or 75 dollars for each shock on my truck or any vehicles. Is there any cheaper way to go?? A car this old is hardly worth more than 2 or 3 grand!! Thanks
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Older 'shocks', can be easily replaced just by unbolting the old, and replacing with new.

    Struts are heavy duty shocks with suspension springs around them, and are an integral part of the suspension. They have to take the suspension apart to take them out of the vehicle, then take the spring off the strut (dangerous) to replace the shock, then put it all back together again and align the vehicle.

    Shop around, it's a very common repair, many many vehicles have struts now a days.

    Oh and by the way, if the old strut fails/breaks, the vehicle can fall on the tire causing you to loose control of vehicle.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I found the same thing when pricing strut replacement on my TL (although the rears look like shocks, they still are considered "struts")

    even various indy places (I never asked the dealer) were all over the map, from around $850 to over 1,200.

    The best price, by far? Sears. They are having a special on Monroe struts/shocks (common aftermarket units). For the TL, it was ~620 all together, then there was a mail in rebate on top of that. Their standard replacement price is not too bad, and right now, they have a 1/2 price on struts (and free on shocks) replacement special (for the labor).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • minjiminji Member Posts: 6
    Hi

    I dropped by a STS yesterday for oil change for my 1997 Taurus with 108k on it. I was told that all 4 struts need to be replaced and that's reason why I sense vibration on highway and when I brake. The price quote I got was ... as follows:

    2 Q Struts $398 * 2 (I guess it's for front, don't know what Q struts are)
    Labor 2.4 hr $216
    2 Q Struts $389 * 2 (rear?)
    Labor 3.5 hr $315
    Alignment $75

    Is it a fair quote? I hope not... From all past discussions here, I can understand it takes quite some time to replace struts so I'm ok with 6 hr labor cost. But why are those struts so expensive? Is it just for 1997 taurus? I searched online and I saw a lot of them were tagged $50-60 and 150 tops, am I looking at the same thing? What are my options now?

    Thanks,
    Minji
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Vibration when braking at highway speeds would more likely be related to warped rotors.
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