Toyota on the mend?

explorerx4 · October 2010

Toyoriffic feels 25k is too much.

gagrice · October 2010

Hollis suggests an entry-level price at just over $20,000  making the right-wheel drive model a new flagship for the brand.

So how much will it cost to get a Left hand drive model? :P

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

$25,000 for a 2012 Scion FR-S, no doubt. I am thinking that Scion will release a base 6-speed FR-S for $20,995. I'm out if they don't, no hard feelings.

anythngbutgm · October 2010

Crazy ride but I would suspect a Bugatti-like price range...

anythngbutgm · October 2010

"New Study Names Honda as the Greenest Automaker"

ateixeira · October 2010

they said that it was being released as a Scion

I called it! You heard it from me first, way back too.

at about $25,000

I believe I called that, too.

I'm batting 1.000.

Anyone wanna rent my crystal ball to buy lottery tickets?

Another link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/10/report-ft-86-to-be-badged-as-scion-arrive-wit- h-higher-than-exp/

ateixeira · October 2010

if people are as crazy about the FT-86 as you are, the dealers will be tacking on big premiums

I agree - it would have been $19,995 plus:

$800 freight
$1100 big rims
$800 graphics package (vinyl stripes)
$2000 audio upgrades

And that's the only way dealers would order them.

So either way it would have been $25k, unless you special-ordered, at least.

ateixeira · October 2010

No fair...

Let's see what Jaguar could do for $19,995. It would get ugly.

Heck, they could not do it for $30k. Anyone want an X-Type? Noone? Hello? Bueller, Bueller?

Great concept, yes, but that's pure fantasy.

ateixeira · October 2010

Has Subaru ever built a RWD vehicle?

Do scooters count? And we'd have to go way back to the post WWII era.

The drivetrain is easily adaptable, though, because they lay out all their engines longitudinally, like BMW does. It's a natural fit.

Weight distribution should be excellent. Most Subarus are 55/45, slightly front-biased, but remove the front half shafts and balance will be even more even, perhaps 52/48.

Will Scion still exist in 2013

Yes, simply because they're not truly a separate division. So zero overhead, really.

ateixeira · October 2010

To be fair, the real reason Honda won is that they don't sell big trucks.

Had the Ridgeline been a huge hit, Hyundai would have taken top honors.

Toyota was #2 only because the Prius offsets the Tundra.

I think awards like that should be given on a per-class basis. That way someone like GM, who sells lots of HD trucks, would still be eligible to win a few classes.

Who makes the greenest HD truck that can do large jobs?

Prius is green, but filled up with 8 people my minivan is actually greener than a Prius with 4.

They have to account for the payload/people carrying ability of the vehicles to make this fair.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

The Wall Street Journal reports that Toyota management told dealers in Las Vegas there will be a production version of the FT-86 badged as a Scion model. The move would help bolster the struggling brand, which has been a bit product-starved of late. There are also rumors of a new price point  as high as $25,000  and the possibility that the Subaru version will only be available in Europe.

While the report claims the FT-86 will be badged as a Scion, there is no definitive word there won't be a Toyota variant as well. We're sure to learn more this auto show season, as reports show that the production FT-86 could arrive at the New York Auto Show in 2011.

Let's not everybody go off half-cocked. Sheesh. Read the above quote from the Autoblog. We're way early here. There's are literally truckloads upon truckloads of people all over the place that are firmly in the same camp as I. For Toyota to keep saying they're going to offer this car for $20,000 then pull up and say it's all of a sudden gonna be the Subie 2.5L boxer or nothing is alienating newly won over fans, in my view.

It could be they're going to offer the larger boxer motor from Subaru for use in Scion FR-S, and offer the smaller motor and smaller price for a new Toyota in 2012, named the Celica. Still RWD, 6-speeds, monkey-back red, decent and competent stereo, A/C, power w's, l's and m's, etc. For $20,000. This pup's not over and dun-fa yet, car freaks. You watch, you wait and you see. Just as the NY Giants aren't going anywhere this year in the NFL (notice I'm leaving the SF 49-ers completely alone here

) Toyota's not dun-fa with this one. Take a quaalude or three and take a deep breath, put on some hot AC/DC or Scorpions and wait this baby out wid me.

This pup is shorter than a Cobalt Coupe! Me need one! In four door style please!
For $20,000! In 6-speeds! Japanese Monkey-back red color! Yesssss!

I know too much here, therefore, what I know is right. And correct. Join me in wisdom and free-form fun with this shorter-than Cobalt Coupe piece of delicious blackberry pie, complete with some vanilla ice cream. And a tall glass of Dr. Pepper. With ice.

ateixeira · October 2010

This will seem like a good move now that the Dollar dropped vs. the Yen:

Sept 2010 119,226
Sept 2009 93,769
up 27%

YTD 2010 955,725
9 mos 2009 600,849
up 59%!

If they're building more here and importing fewer from Japan, that was a good decision from a currency stand point.

Also good for US jobs.

fintail · October 2010

It's 4 grand man....you're crazy about this thing and you'd walk away over that? Oh well...by then I am sure you'll have a new love :shades:

ateixeira · October 2010

Either way, at $20k it would be bare-bones, and at $25k it would come much better equipped.

gagrice · October 2010

If they're building more here and importing fewer from Japan, that was a good decision from a currency stand point. Also good for US jobs.

It is good for the US economy. And it is actually better than buying a domestic made in Canada or Mexico. depending on content of course.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

It's 4 grand man....you're crazy about this thing and you'd walk away over that? Oh well...by then I am sure you'll have a new love

True. When I see this car in the flesh I have a funny feeling $4,000 won't mean a thing. And it is true, I do find occasional new cars to take the place of other new cars to admire.

But there's something about this one that is awfully hard to ignore. Also, Toyota says they're gonna build a sedan outta this baby Cobalt-lengthed FR-S. I might be asking too much to expect them to build a $20,000 4-dr. Scion FR-S or Toyota Celica.

Oh well, the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is a great compact car from Japan and just sticking with it may very well be my best option. In other words, I have a very nice problem on my hands.

Hon-Duh Civic Muncher

This '08 Lancer GTS and the '65 Ford Mustang are the two best bodystyles in the history of production automobiles. Period. :shades: Gorgeous cars.

ateixeira · October 2010

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/11/aston-martin-cygnet-gets-the-green-light/

Hilarious. First they supply Lotus with various engines (4, 6, and 8 cylinder ones), and now this!

I love the photo with the James Bond-ish pose and the old DB5 next to it. I'm sure the guy in the tux is driving the DB5.

gagrice · October 2010

I could get a license plate trim the says "my other car is an Aston Martin". I thought that billionaire from India bought Aston? I would own one of those long before I would a Camry.

gagrice · October 2010

I think they first announced the Cygnet in late 2009. As a luxury commuter. Too bad Lexus did not take the que. Maybe Lexus execs don't have a high enough IQ. :shades:

anythngbutgm · October 2010

Love it. No, really, I love Aston Martins and anything they build (Jeeze, I sound like a Gov't Motors fan :P ) J/K

Seriously, I really don't think it looks that bad for a Micro. Shoot, if I never had to deal with New England winters, I'd drive something like that as a commuter... I like it 10x better than a smart FourTwo.

FWIW, I spent a week in Italy recently and saw a bunch of Toyota IQ's while I was there. It was a pretty popular car, and ideal in those tight little towns. :shades:

gagrice · October 2010

I like it too. I am not fond of the iQ even though the shape is the same. The trim level on the Aston is just classier. Not so much like a kiddie toy car.

fintail · October 2010

The front of that thing just screams "pokemon"....and the "Aston" variant is no better. This is the lowest common denominator of styling, we can't go lower.

fintail · October 2010

If you drive it and like it, and can afford it...do it. You only live once. As globalization dumbs down the developed world, future generations won't have it so good...so enjoy it now. Of course, by the time the FT is on the road, nobody knows what you'll like then

Lancer isn't a bad design...inoffensive for sure even though the face is over-aggressive...but I don't know if anyone will remember it in 50 years.

anythngbutgm · October 2010

I don't know man, have you seen the Nissan Juke?

2011 Nissan Juke

Looks like a Bullfrog in a windtunnel... At least the IQ is cohesive.

fintail · October 2010

I think the Juke is a result of an ecstasy trip. There's no common denominator there, it's just an assemblage of random shapes and angles.

anythngbutgm · October 2010

One thing about the IQ which I think will be an advantage is the amount of visibility it has. Especially compared to the Juke (not that I would compare the 2 but since I introduced it into the conversation

). With the current trend of gunslit windows mixed with acre wide C and D-pillars it's nice to see a good expanse of glass there...

ateixeira · October 2010

I thought that billionaire from India bought Aston?

Let's see, I believe Tata bought Jaguar, but Aston Martin was picked up by Prodrive, the company that used to race-prep Subaru WRC cars. I think they race prep Coopers now. But Prodrive owns then.

I don't see much of a link there - I guess they had a relationship with Subaru, and when Toyota bought part ownership in Subaru that may have helped break the ice.

The funny thing is the concept had basically the same powertrain. They want to get better CAFE numbers, so they really focused on a designer interior.

ateixeira · October 2010

The front of that thing just screams "pokemon"....and the "Aston" variant is no better. This is the lowest common denominator of styling, we can't go lower.

I disagree.

The Smart ForTwo is far worse than that Aston.

Heck, even the Mercedes-Benz A-class is far, far dorkier:

It's not easy making a micro-compact look good, and speaking in general terms that Aston is far "less ugly" than anything else that size.

PS At least you didn't respond with the usual "I'd get a CPO [insert German car here] instead"

ateixeira · October 2010

We agree on the Juke...most hideous design since the Aztek.

This will actually boost GM because people will now point to this as a point-of-reference for ugliness.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/08/video-juke-film-answers-the-question-what-wer- e-nissan-designe/

fintail · October 2010

The Smart really doesn't go for the anime face, neither does that (quite old) A-class. They are just blandbox appliances, not trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It's hard to really have styling per se on a vehicle that size to begin with...which means when it is overdone, it is really overdone.

I'd say the dorkiness levels are about the same. Neither are cars for people who like cars.

fintail · October 2010

It does have an Aztek disjointedness to it.

Hilarious article:

"Albaisa states that the essence of the Juke "captures the pure life of a 30-something year-old guy." The vehicle is aimed at a younger demographic of new car buyer and Nissan's goal was to turn lifestyle elements into design features. The interior is supposed to be reminiscent of a person wearing a wetsuit while the front end is intended to invoke visions of a rally car."

Are we sure this guy really isn't from marketing? The "pure life"? WTH? A rally car?

stever · October 2010

I hope the interior doesn't smell anything like my old wetsuits did.

tlong · October 2010

...As globalization dumbs down the developed world...

I don't think globalization is what is dumbing down the developed world. Our sitting at the top too long, getting lazy, and trying to support a huge chunk of population on the backs of those who work hard is dumbing us down... what are the statistics on how many US kids finish high school? And how does that compare to 40 years ago? And how does THAT relate to globalization?

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

in Australia.

"G" is short for Gazoo.

Drool! :P

For length comparisons, this car is shorter than a Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe.

fintail · October 2010

None of that matters when those who have it all can simply exploit serfdom labor in criminal states (who steal the intellectual property and innovation of the "lazy") to increase their undeserved profit margins. It's not really trickling down, is it? As the socio-economic gap continues to grow, those education issues aren't going to get better either. So yeah, in a way it relates directly to the negative consequences of the great race to the bottom aka globalization.

But continue to muster up a defense everytime this devolutionary status quo is criticized.

fintail · October 2010

Wasn't the Element marketed towards the wetsuit crowd? And ended up being loved by 50-something dog owners. Let's see how Nissan product positioning works.

tlong · October 2010

As the socio-economic gap continues to grow, those education issues aren't going to get better either. So yeah, in a way it relates directly to the negative consequences of the great race to the bottom aka globalization.

OK, now I know how globalization is dumbing-down the developed countries. It's education issues. :surprise:

stever · October 2010

The Element is nice for the surfers because they can change clothes at the beach by standing up through the sunroof. Beats the towel shimmy I guess.

gagrice · October 2010

If a surfer has any class he changes in his Prevost.

stever · October 2010

Heh, it's hard enough to find on-street parking in the coastal neighborhoods as it is without cruising around in a motorhome.

Really need a Smart Car with a rack for the tonier neighborhoods around Scripps. (RapidMag.com)

I'm no good at ID'ing sedans - this may be a Toyota (in keeping with the topic). Still easier to park than a Winnebago. Just substitute boards for 'yaks. (couple more fun ones).

ateixeira · October 2010

The rally car reference sort of made me LOL also.

It's as if they've never seen a WRC event, even on TV.

ateixeira · October 2010

Wasn't the Element marketed towards the wetsuit crowd? And ended up being loved by 50-something dog owners.

It was - early ads had surfers popping their heads out of the rear moonroof to change in to their wet suits. What a strange place for a moonroof, too!

I realize a lot of people feel strongly (mostly negative) about the Element, but I will point out that it was a very successful product for Honda - all sales were incremental because it never cannibalized the CR-V it was based on.

That's incredible if you think about it for a minute. It cost them almost NOTHING to build, since it's a CR-V clone, yet it sold well for several years. It's old now, and fading, but the CR-V actually became the best selling SUV after the Element was introduced. Ironic.

So call it ugly, love it, hate it, whatever - there's no arguing the Element was a success for Honda.

It would be like Mercedes coming out with the E-class based CLS without ever cannibalizing E-class sales, and then the E- taking over the segment. Unheard of.

ateixeira · October 2010

That Smart Car will roll over forwards if the owner jams the brakes suddenly. LOL

The sedan in the 2nd pic is a Neon.

I'm no photo-chop pro, but I think it's chopped.

ateixeira · October 2010

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/12/class-action-suit-alleges-bmw-n54-turbo-engin- e-unsafe-causes-un/

fintail · October 2010

Yeah, well to be fair, I never claimed the Element was not a sales success - indeed it cost almost nothing to make, so it was in the black early on. But from a marketing or product positioning standpoint, it was a hilarious failure, as is almost any car marketed towards the "young and hip". I don't hate any hate for the car itself, it serves a purpose...but in my area they do tend to be driven by the types who merge onto a highway at 38mph.

What you describe of the CLS is pretty much what happened...I don't think anyone at MB ever thought it would go over so well or spawn imitators.

ateixeira · October 2010

I doubt Honda cared much who actually bought it, as many buyers as it found (without hurting its siblings). As they say, you can sell a young man's car (in terms of image) to a old man, but not the other way around.

Ironically two friends of mine own them - and they married ... each other! Just had their first children, a twin boy and girl. Before that she had dogs, too.

CLS is a success, too, then.

nippononly · October 2010

interested to learn what the base price of this thing will be?

2011 Lexus CT 200h - Driving Impressions
Lexus entry-level hybrid, take two.

Driving the car is an enthusiast-friendly experience. In Sport mode, the CT responds surprisingly well to corners with predictable mild understeer thats easily detectable through the steering wheel.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2011-lexus-ct-200h

And that, from a car with a Lexus badge, which looks like a Matrix, and has the guts of a Prius! Apart from the fact that it will be (I'm sure) automatic-only, I find myself quite interested, particularly if this has a starting price under $30K, which I figure it must.

How much does the Camry Hybrid clone, er I mean HS250H, cost? This would surely have to have a starting price that is roughly the same.

Edit....I just checked the Lexus website, and the base price of the HS250H is $34K?? Holy crap! They are asking $34 grand or more for a Camry Hybrid with a Lexus badge??? No wonder I see so few of these on the roads.

If they are thinking of asking more than $30K as a base price for this CT200, they are out of their minds. I'm sure they won't sell many in that case.

stever · October 2010

I'm no photo-chop pro, but I think it's chopped.

I bet it's real, or should be. Just typical of what a bunch of boaters would do running shuttle. And since destination boating got popular a few years back, every boater needs two or three kayaks to run various play spots on a river (getting as bad as golf with all those clubs). So all the paddlers for those boats could conceivably get in that one car.

I was careful never to put more than 4 canoes and a couple of kayaks on my racks. Rarely more than three boats on my Tercel sedan.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

I'm lowering my standards and deciding to...be open to the $25,000 idea for either a Scion FT-86 or a Toyota FR-S. Yikes. I've been bitten by the Toyota FT-86 idea.

If I can snag one of these pups with a 6-speed in this Japanese "monkeyback red" I'll grab it up like a hot apple fritter and Starbuck's French Roast. This is gonna be a fun chase.

I mean, can I really expect Toyota/Scion ta build this car for $21,000 for the content included? I don't know if I can. What's $4,000 more, eh? :shades:

Pop The Tragically Hip's 'Live Between Us' in the player and let's party. Gonna head south to Arizona and check up on our house down there in my new Scion FR-S, with 6-speeds, power w's, l's and m's, A/C, kickin' stereo with 10" subwoofer in the trunk and red paint.

My '08 Lancer GTS has foglights and a sunroof but has an automatic CVT tranny. I can live with the Scion FR-S base 6-speed (manual is always cheaper, see where I'm headin' here) package that doesn't have the foglights and sunroof amenities included. Yessa.

I think Toyota is just testing the waters on this $25,000 thing. Seeing the reaction. I'm starting to think that I'll entertain the idea of just paying the $25,000 for this car. Stay tuned.

stever · October 2010

"Why rebels and insurgent groups the world over love the Toyota Hilux pickup as much as their AK-47s."

"An experiment conducted by British TV show Top Gear in 2006 offers one explanation. The shows producers bought an 18-year-old Hilux diesel with 190,000 miles on the odometer for $1,500. They then crashed it into a tree, submerged it in the ocean for five hours, dropped it from about 10 feet, tried to crush it under an RV, drove it through a portable building, hit it with a wrecking ball, and set it on fire. Finally they placed it on top of a 240-foot tower block that was then destroyed in a controlled demolition. When they dug it out of the rubble, all it took to get it running again was hammers, wrenches, and WD-40. They didnt even need spare parts."

Guerrilla Trucks (Newsweek)

Toyota on the mend?

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