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Nope, no relation.
Not from me, and I haven't seen that in this discussion. Maybe some other thread.
It is funny to see people fixate on a problem from engines that have not been produced for nearly a decade. That V6 is 3 generations old already.
I think you've missed a lot of factors.
This was lose-lose for Toyota, you can't go after the victim, it's bad PR even if you're right.
The new administration wants to put this behind them and I'm sure they wanted to settle with the Saylor family REGARDLESS of who was to blame.
Remember, Bernard drove the same exact car and reported mat entrapment, and the dealer who installed the incorrect floor mat is still being sued. This case is far from over.
I never said that, in fact I never even mentioned GM at all, I said UAW.
With 14,000 hits I'd say you didn't hit anything.
Nobody really cares about some lame, unfounded YouTube video with poorly done, typo-laden PPT slides.
Let me know when it gets to a million, that'll be the sweet spot.
Total NONSENSE.
NHTSA reports of SUA are down 80%.
This has nothing to do with the media!
The very customers you say are so outraged have stopped complaining. Maybe because it's not happening any more.
This has nothing at all to do with media, bias, nothing.
You're in denial about it, too.
Jim Press? Arguing here in this thread? Toyota nuts?
No, so hopefully the unsubstantiated personal attacks will stop.
Gary: thanks for keeping it civil.
ROFLMAO. That was a good one. So true.
They're truly a good
AmericanJapanese company.2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was saying that same thing time after time in the GM discussions where proforeign people constantly come up with reasons from their aunt's 1978 GM car that had this problem or that problem.
What goes around comes around.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You should have seen the constant dribble of attacks in the GM discussions. I do not remember ateixeira doing that, however. Even today I can go into certain GM discussions and anything neutral or positive or even negative will evoke a post from certain ones with their negative posts same as they posted before. It's continuous practice on a few posters' parts.
>mud slinging.
I think toyota is stuck in the mud rather than mud slinging at toyota. They have tried to sell cars under different names but sharing similar parts. But many realize the other lines are just more toyota.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And indeed toyota continued building the sludge machines and made changes to to it quietly to mitigate the problematic design over years. THey blamed the customers until they finally had to put up a payment to those who could "prove" they had maintained.
Now they've done the same with the problematic vehicles since about 2002, but this involved safety more than a thousands of dollars expense with a sludged engine.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is getting a bit snarky in here lately. Let's tone it down a bit, shall we -- and focus on the cars, and not on each other.
Thanks.
Agreed. I was wondering why Bob Baker Lexus would want it open to the public. Not sure how that could benefit their case. I am still skeptical of Frank Bernard. Way too convenient for my cynical mind. Ever see him on TV or interviewed? All 2nd and 3rd hand he said, she said. Of course the Santee Sheriff's are known to be incompetent donut munchers. I would not give you a nickel for their testimony. It is not like cops have never been bought off.
I would expect Toyota to parade Bernard in a court case against Bob Baker.
Example: in the Sienna vs. Odyssey threads, some Sienna owners will bash Honda for their transmission, I'm usually the first to point out that it hasn't really been a problem since 2004. Search and you'll find me defending what I believe to be the truth.
These threads should be constructive and accurate.
Also, I'm the Subaru Crew founder and Community Leader to this day, but their Navi sucks and I was actually quoted in SmartMoney magazine criticizing them for it:
http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/autos/car-tech-on-the-cheap-1292013908320/-/
The article appears in the January issue of SmartMoney.
So yes, I take offense when someone calls me biased and accuses me of wearing blinders, because it's simply not true.
Gary can vouch for my often vocal criticism of OEM Navi systems.
Which is it?
Did they continue building sludge machines?
Or did they make changes to the design to stop building sludge machines?
Your post is a total contradiction. Listen to yourself, read that again.
For Bob Baker (not Barker, LOL) Lexus not to be at fault, they have to blame something else.
I think it was gross incompetence. You can even blame Toyota for not training their dealers to be smart enough to use the right mats if you'd like, that's actually fair, and will surely be Toyota's reason given for paying any settlement at all.
I'd like to hear more from Frank Bernard also.
Yes, read. When you read it they continued building them and made some changes as well. The designs still showed up with sludge.
Now they've denied problems but eventually made some changes to imply the actual problems have all been found and publicized. It's my belief there is still a problem known to toyota that has not been corrected in all the vehicles they sold to the public.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't know what to say about Toyota other than they plateaued and are on a long slow decline. About the only vehicles they offer that remotely interest me are the Avalon and the Lexus LS.
Considering it takes a while for sludge to build-up and cause problems, that's actually a surprisingly quick change.
they continued building them and made some changes as well
They added VVT for the 3rd year of that engine. You implied the changes where made to fix sludge, but that's not true. I doubt the problem even would have surfaced that early in an engine's life.
Toyota didn't use the same engine from one generation to the next.
Denied problems? There is a 7/100 warranty extension on affected engines.
You bring a level of debate to Edmund's that keeps it above your average Forum. Personal attacks are just not good in a Forum such as this. I say things that are not always agreed with. I don't expect to be attacked personally for it. Civility needs to be maintained. Multiple posts that say the same thing are not really helpful. And could have a negative impact on those who drop in for the first time. I enjoy Edmund's and the Posters here. Hopefully we can keep it as a place for debate and most of all learning.
Time to get over it and move on.
Bad behavior from GM Haters does not make it OK for people to troll Toyota threads and enact revenge.
I'm sure the attention will die down by the time the case is closed, but we're not gonna let that one go...
I am no particular lover of either GM or Toyota. One key difference is that GM had lousy vehicles for over 30 years, while Toyota's slide started much more recently. But at the moment GM is on the upswing and IMHO Toyota's direction still can't be determined. If they are smart they will start trending up, but not convinced this is the case. They are like GM 20 years later, will they repeat GM's long set of mistakes, or recover more quickly?
I really got into cars as a teenager, and unfortunately that was in the 1980s, perhaps their worst era. Yes, I remember the Cimarron all too well, in fact my roommates aunt owned one, and it was the punch line in many jokes I heard over the years.
I don't think Toyota makes a single vehicle nearly that bad, though I have noticed evidence of cost cutting in the new Sienna (and I'm the first to point that out, even exactly where - glove box, dash plastics).
But a Cimarron? Not even close. The Lexus models that do share a platform with Toyotas at least begin with competent vehicles, which is not something I'd say about the 1980s J-cars. GM basically changed the front and rear fascia and called it a Cadillac.
Thankfully the bizarre center-mounted gauges are gone. Styling looks like a cross between the Astra and a Versa, modernized a bit.
Should do better than the current model.
Wasn't there more sound proofing and "nicer" accountrements added? I actually owned a 1985 Skyhawk J-car by Buick. It was pretty nice. I enjoyed driving it greatly. It had the rare 1.8 L OHC engine that I ordered in it.
In fact a college roommate had one. I recall his driving it down when he was attending a conference in the area. He may still have it in his fleet.
The people expecting it to be a Cadillac expected more than could be packed into the J-car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Plus it launched with the 4 banger only.
Good point. Almost everyone acknowledges that Ford builds world-class cars. Fords are now favorably compared with the best from Asia & Europe. Now it's GM's turn to play catch-up. (It doesn't help GM's image in my eyes that we taxpayers have helped keep it afloat.)
My guess is that GM would love to be in Toyota's shoes: overflowing bank accounts & no unions to deal with.
It used to be American-made cars vs. foreign-made cars. No more. Now it's GM (no matter where built) vs. everything else (whether or not US-made).
Just realized that I forgot about Chrysler. Does anyone still care about Chrysler?
Thanks to the administration's handling of the bankruptcy, GM is still stuck with the unions. I am sure they would be happy to be employing all their workers at lower than those highest seniority UAW members whose salaries never got lowered even while GM hired people at much lower, realistic rates. But that's likely a topic for another discussion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why couldn't they get that right?
Not too difficult to figure that out. 'cough' Development cost cutting 'cough'.
But still the greenest car is not even the prius. Its the NISSAN LEAF. The GREEN LEAF. And it won't turn yellow during fall...
I NEVER ever hear of such things happening in Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, Ford factories !!
Jim got so sick of his captains that he jumped ship, he would rather jump to Chrysler even though I am sure he knows Chrysler was not a great ship in the first place. But better be with a smaller ship than with a big ship ruled with an iron hand and cheating consumers here and there.
But FYI, since July, Jim will start contributing his valuable experience to Nissan. I guess Nissan knew what kind of a guy is willing to give up a high and well paying post for the sake of HONOUR !!! :
http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1047161_renault-nissan-hires-former-t- - - oyota-golden-boy-and-chrysler-exec-jim-press
And I am sure Jim will not teach Nissan toyota's bad ways, because in the first place, thats why he left toyota. He will hopefully help Nissan grew and overtake toyota one day and maybe one day he will be appointed as Nissan's member of the board of directors, joining Brits, Portuguese, Japanese, etc on Nissan's multi National board.
In contrast with toyota's 100% Japanese board members. Jim was appointed as the first ever non-Japanese board member decades after people criticized that Americans, who have contributed so much to toyota's growth deserved at least a board seat.
So no more Dodge trucks, but there may be a new Ram Durango one of these fine days.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If this is not the main purpose of these kind of discussions, then what is it ? Yes, there will be fanatical defenders of certain brands no matter the evidence, but its up to us as individuals to filter the noise and the real music.
That includes not trolling certain discussions over and over simply to denounce an automaker. That kind of bashing doesn't further the conversation.
Reminds me of some people who are already so rich yet they still crimp on small changes and mean to their relatives.
Couln't get any crazier than this could you ? Yet many still " admire " this company. Either they don't know many of these stories, or they only want to hear what they WISH to hear and turned a deaf ear to these stories. Guys, EVEN IF toyota DO make the best cars (I never believed this), I STILL refuse to support this kind of corporation without any sense of decency and fairness.
If you think I made this story up, read this, there are 4 pages :
http://www.allbusiness.com/specialty-businesses/592099-1.html
And this happened during the old days before Katsuaki took charge. Again I was wrong abt toyota. Turns put they have been ruthless to their employees way way long long time ago. I can't imagine what its like more recently when their cost cutting was more brutal.
Small wonder those sludge cases did not happen recently, but it has happened way back since 2000 when EVEN I thought toyota was greater then. And those sludge problems still remain as we speak.
You know, Wikileaks got bashed up pretty bad from some world leaders, but I wonder how many of us here values the kind of info they revealed. I for one values them, because I believe the kind of info they opened up will hopefully make the world a better place and expose the corrupt and greed of many world goverment leaders.
Perhaps some of these Wikileaks info will help those leaders lose future elections and foster needed change. The same thing happened in the automotive industry. We consumers need to wake up to the fact that some automakers, like some country leaders, are not as decent and good as their PR sections made them out to be.
Want Americans to get better and safer cars ? Follow Wikileaks. Do not be afraid to expose things not pleasant to read. Read the facts carefully then make your decision.
I don't call Wikileaks revelations " bashing " of certain world leaders. They are simply telling us the TRUTH how they behave, good or bad. Now all I am doing is the same, I simply " REVEAL " many things about toyota that are not too nice to read, but very necessary for car consumers.
Unless one believes its better to " Hear no evil, see no evil ".
Well put, Steve. We can only hope that the poster for whom this was intended takes it to heart.