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Toyota on the mend?



  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587 ril-beating-chevy/

    Beat Volt and Leaf, even nearly matching their sales combined.

    For an old design, not bad.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    I still can't wrap my mind around Lexus using that design.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is - neither can I.

    It's part of Subaru's DNA...

    It's totally opposed to Lexus' DNA.

    Pardon the pun. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    Groan...but good one.

    There's a bugeye Impreza in my parking garage that sounds like a nice late model riding lawnmower...I can't imagine that noise coming from any model of the isotank L, nor do I see it being able to be isolated into silence.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There are a few good aftermarket exhausts for the WRX and a lot of bad ones.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    This is a bone stock Impreza, it might even have hubcaps.

    There's also an early 00s style (the roundish one) Legacy sedan that sometimes parks by me at work, always smells hot. I wonder if that's something the engines do as they age too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2012
    That Impreza was probably a high teens car new, a Lexus would start at double the cost. More insulation and 2 generations of engine refinement.

    Having said that, I still have trouble imagining a Lexus with a boxer growl.

    To put it in terms you would better understand, imagine comparing a 230 Kompressor to a smooth E350 V6.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    IIRC, that boxer design started out in BMW motorcycles? Saw a biography on BMW bikes on the history channel (I think) that basically recalled the boxer engine being extremely reliable, durable and powerful and once they got away from the Boxer design, things went sort of sketchy on all characteristics.

    At WOT, the STi sounds incredible IMO. it's the putt putting around town where it sounds kinda unrefined...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    A bunch of us (Subaru owners) went to the Baltimore Auto Show one year and we got a kick out of the BMW motorcycle display. They went out of their way to promote all the advantages of that layout. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Found a vid with sound, stock and then with a Magnaflow:

    Before sounds like my blender malfunctioning. After sounds like it's trying to sound like a WRX. LOL

    I think the later Kompressor engine was a tad better, but I'd take a Scion FR-S over either, no question.

    We're spoiled, the US market tends to get V6 and above models. Lux makes have plenty of 4 bangers in other markets.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    Friend of mine has an 09 Impreza, non WRX, I wouldn't call it the pinnacle of smoothness either. It won't work in a Lexus, the engine would have to be totally encapsulated, floating on some special mount system, with an insanely muffled exhaust. Not worth the effort.

    I remember being appalled at the first time I heard a kompressor car start when cold.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    09 Impreza had the EJ25.

    Since then the 2.5l engines went to the FB architecture with pretty significant changes. The coolant has separate lines for the heads and block, so no more coolant leaks from the head gasket (they don't flow through them at all).

    FB25 is also chain driven vs belt for the EJ, the oil filter moved up to the top/front of the engine bay, revised intake, etc. It's a whole new block, nothing in common with the old one except that both round to 2.5l, even displacement changed if you're not rounding.

    So pretty much a clean sheet design.

    Then, on top of that, Toyota came in and revised it further and renamed it the FA20. I'm not sure why they made so many changes to a brand new block, but they did. Bore and stroke are different, but the main change is they added direct injection and made it more high rev-friendly.

    So the FA in the Scion FR-S is two generations removed from the boxer in your friend's car, oddly enough.

    To be honest I think it's wasteful, I can't imagine the R&D effort to re-engineer 2 new engines in 2 years. Crazy.

    Rumor has it Subaru resisted since the FB was brand new but Toyota forced the changes upon then.

    Looks like Subaru will put the FB in the fuel misers and the FA in the performance cars, basically.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Toyota gets most Florida, N.Y unintended-acceleration claims dismissed

    Read more:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    edited May 2012
    Coolant leaks...hmm...maybe that's why I have noticed a hot smell.

    Can't see how even a new boxer would be suitable for Lexus though, what can it do that a new age DI/turbo engine can't? There may be a clean sheet design, but the layout itself seems to have inherent NVH issues.

    Funny about the unintended acceleration garbage...I want a judge to just loudly announce it is all driver incompetency.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Lexus doesn't need a boxer, it's the FT platform that needs economies of scale. So it's the other way around.

    For the FT is makes sense - the whole engine block basically drags on the ground. That's how they got the low center of gravity.

    No room for AWD unfortunately. :cry:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    edited May 2012
    Make an FT Camry coupe or a new MR2 or a new Supra or something then. I'd wager we won't see it come to Lexus. Wrong demographic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    All this is speculation...earlier I'd heard that the Lexus IS would be based on a shortened GS. That sort of makes more sense, actually.

    They gotta ditch the IS250, though. Why make a smallish V6 that only goes in one model?

    I thought they could put a non-DI version of the 3.5l engine (2GR) in the base model, and then DI in the upper models (2GR-FSE).

    That's what Cadillac does on the CTS - both 3.6l but the base engine has no DI.

    Trick would be how to name it? IS350, IS350+? Can't use DI, that sounds like a diesel.

    Or do as the Germans and have the numbers make absolutely no sense.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    The 250 sells in other markets too, and allows for sweetheart leases and enables those new to the brand to kind of stretch in. I can see a place for it in terms of sales volume - no doubt it sells more than its bigger brother.

    IS Diesel, it exists! That would actually get me to give a glance at one. Maybe make the DI the "F sport" or some such gingerbread.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah but I doubt a 2.5l V6 with direct injection costs any less than the very high volume 3.5l V6, which goes in the Camry and Sienna.

    By pure economies of scale that engine must cost them next to nothing to produce.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    But is the high volume 3.5 made in Japan? Maybe that's part of it too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Good point. They tax by displacement so it may not be. They don't get our big Camry or the Sienna for that matter.

    They could build the engines here...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    The IS is all Japan made, as far as I know. Probably keeps the less featured American oriented V6 out of it.

    Going to be interesting to see what it happens to that car,as it is so much older than the competition, and sorely needs an update.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Supposed to be on the road less than a year from now, so I'm sure we'll find out in the Fall.

    Would make sense to unveil at Tokyo or SEMA (new IS-F).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Lexus distances itself from Toyota as it seeks to regain luxury crown

    Read more:

    Refreshing after hearing from Acura that they would not be going all out.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    There will be some sweetheart deals at the end of the run, too. That means a 2014 or 2015 model? Too far out for something that was on the road in the fall of 2005 and has barely been updated since.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    Funny that the grille is being used as a differentiating tactic. I guess no publicity is bad publicity...even if you don't like it, you sure notice it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I wonder how much people like it, vs. the other updates, you never know. It's hard to measure the reasons it's doing well because a lot changed.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 42,971
    I think the front end is the weak point in the GS from an aesthetic standpoint, especially if one likes homogenous styling...but that's just my opinion. The interior is the strong suit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The screen is some nice eye-candy for sure. Caddy has a similar one now (also more than a foot in diagonal measure).

    BMW's is big but not quite as big.

    Benz' is the smallest but it's so sharp that it seemed more usable to me than BMW's system. HD for sure. Audi does their 3D buildings thing. Neat but TMI (too much info) if you ask me.

    Will be checking out the 3 series and new C class early next month at a local event, so hopefully I can play with those systems a little, to see where the bar is set for the next IS.
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