Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    48 grand for the new Explorer or Durango is a bit rich IMO... yikes

    In the case of the Explorer that's the Limited with just about every box checked. Do it all and it cracks $50K. In reality, most are XLT's that sticker around $35K.

    If I were shopping in the segment, I would buy the Mazda CX-9 over any of them.

    Last fall I was and the CX-9 came in last place in our comparisons. Although an attractive vehicle, it felt dated inside.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I read recently that Mazda may be shopping for a new partner now that it separated from Ford. I think unfortunately they are kind of small to survive long term on their own. They are doing what they can, but with limited resources. We'll probably see Japanese orphan brands in the not too distant future just like what happened here in the 50's and 60's as the industry shook out.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,796
    Another case of posting without having any real experience to back it up.
    Add 1 to the number of posts, though.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Conflict of interest? Nah, the US government isn't well organized enough to pull off stuff like that. LOL

    There's a good joke in there somewhere...

    2 Auto CEOs walk in to a bar, Lutz orders the cheapest power window switches he can get. Toyoda says, "I'll have what he's having". :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We'll probably see Japanese orphan brands in the not too distant future

    In order:

    Suzuki
    Mitsubishi
    Mazda

    They need partners now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I took my brother to test drive a 4 banger/manual Escape and they didn't have any, so we drove a loaded up V6. In all seriousness - the worst ride/handling combination in the segment. The new Escape cannot get here soon enough.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Didn't they have partners?

    Suzuki -> GM
    Mitsubishi -> Chrysler
    Mazda -> Ford
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they all "broke up", basically.

    Suzuki moved on, they were trying to get engines from VW, now they're fighting. The Kizashi is a nice chassis in search of a real engine.

    Once DSM went south, that deal soured. Mitsu needs a whole new identity. I don't think the iMiev is enough to save them.

    Ford sold most of Mazda, though I think they still own a small (4%?) stake.

    I think all 3 are in jeopardy. Mazda has the best shot - SkyActiv looks promising and they will also have diesels.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jan 2012 vs. year ago.

    Industry overall was up 21%, so a good sign for the economy, if they can all find buyers.

    Mitsubishi was down 50%, told ya, the writing's on the wall....
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited February 2012
    The thing about Mitsubushi though is like Honda, they are very diverse in things outside of automobiles. For instance, everyone knows about Mitsubushi home electronics, maybe even their home climate units. Or their heavy trucks...

    But they're also into Nuclear Energy systems of all things as well.

    Mitsubushi Heavy Industry

    IIRC correctly, they were awarded a 15 billion dollar contract in Texas about 5 or so years ago.
    I seriously think that their Auto division takes a back seat to their other ventures...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Even more diverse than that. I recall seeing the three diamonds logo on a can of pineapple.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hyundai makes big ships and I think they even make car carrier vessels for their autos.

    Toyota still makes industrial looms for the textile industry (that division is spelled Toyoda).
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I believe I have seen the same thing.

    Did you know that Toyota has a housing division?

    Toyota-Non-automotive Business
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good idea to diversify. Subaru's parent is Fuji Heavy Industries, and they build all sorts of stuff.

    If I bring home a Mitsubishi it would likely be that giant 84" LCD tv from the big screen store. :shades:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    A friend of mine is putting an addition on his house and one of his criteria is a wall big enough for a 92" (or 94", can't remember) Mitsu TV. I guess the thing is ridiculously expensive... :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow...we have to remember, every extra inch adds a lot of area.

    A 92" screen is not twice the size of a 46 incher, it's FOUR times the area!

    Having said that, as cheap as screen are, I'm not sure why cars only have 4" screen some times. That's a phone size nowadays.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sheesh, he could open up a drive-in movie theatre! I envision a day when a television will take up an entire wall, yet be so thin, it could be applied to the wall like tiles. I wonder if I'll ever see a holodeck in my lifetime?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2012
    And there will be 17,000 channels and nothing on.

    Ah, a 3D documentary on the Tercel is showing on the Toyota channel at 7 tonight on channel 4763. Have to grab that one. :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,796
    I'm glad you had the opportunity to drive a V6 Escape.
    Our '09 is pretty much the same as the 2012 Escape.
    It is less noisy than our 2004 Escape.
    The road/wind noise of the Prius V reminded me of our 2004 Escape.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    17,000 channels and nothing on

    So true...surfing channels the other day I saw a show about people hunting Big Foot. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2012
    http://www.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2012008

    For 2009 model Dependability, just 72 problems reported per 100 vehicles.

    Toyota won for mainstream brands.

    Cadillac took 3rd, kudos to them.

    Edit to add image:

    image
  • frankok1frankok1 Member Posts: 56
    Should last place be titled Fiat as they control Chrysler?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2012
    show about people hunting Big Foot

    Ah, that explains that TV crew I spotted eating lunch in the diner around here last Fall. :shades:

    It's not just Lexus on top, Toyota and Scion are right up there too, so it's really 3 of the top 5 spots. The stock is up again today in spite of some more financial doom and gloom stories about them in the news the last week.

    That said, those numbers are based on 3 years of ownership, so those are 2009 models. Will they slip?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    How different are Toyota and Scion, mechanically? Or Hyundai and Kia? Weird gap for the latter.

    I am surprised Infiniti is so far down, which model is the troublemaker?
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    edited February 2012
    From what I see, the 2007-2009 were the worst years for dependability, so I would not expect them to go down. Good for my Toyota stock! Bad news for the Toyota Hate Club - but probably JD Powers is on Toyota's payroll ;) (but only when JD Powers gives good news about Toyota :D .

    Yes, good to see Cadillac as high as Toyota.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I follow Infiniti pretty well and the only thing that has really been a problem for them has been the gas mileage and the need for premium fuel. Otherwise, most of the lineup uses the same VQ motor as the Nissan line.

    One thing that does come to mind tho is the displacement was bumped from 3.5 to 3.7 litres and I believe it lost some of it's smoothness. Maybe that was a source of some of the drop...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2012
    How different are Toyota and Scion, mechanically?

    Not very, most powertrains are shared. They're close so that makes sense.

    Or Hyundai and Kia? Weird gap for the latter

    The Kia Borrego was unique, and their problem model is likely the Sedona. Hyundai had the Entourage minivan clone, but they sold in very miniscule numbers compared to the Kia, plus it was discontinued after 2008.

    Since this measures 2009 models, that makes sense. The Borrego and the Sedona are the difference. Seems like newer models did OK.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited February 2012
    But were the Borrego and Sedona (and equivalent) troublesome enough for the gap? I'd assume 97% of Hyunkia sales then weren't those models. To me it looks like the odd gap that you'd find with Vibe vs Matrix or Corolla vs Prizm - perception related.

    Borrego was an oddball, looked old when new, nobody bought them, locally anyway I think National picked up a load of them for the fleet.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now that I look, they were more different than we thought:

    Kia had the Rondo, Sedona, Sorento, and Borrego. A tiny van, a (problematic) minivan, and two body-on-frame SUVs.

    Hyundai had the Tiburon, Santa Fe, Veracruz. A RWD coupe and two crossovers.

    I think (not positive) the Rio/Accent, Spectra/Elantra, and Optima/Sonata shared platforms, though even then not all their engines.

    They are far more closely related now.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    But aren't a lot of engines the same? What amount of sales were made by those vans (which from what I understand were well below par in terms of quality and refinement)? It still seems weird to me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even sharing engines, there were 7 unique models ... that's a lot of differences.

    The only one I knew a lot about was the Sedona because I was minivan shopping in 2007, and I test drove one.

    It was an OK budget choice, as you'd expect. Loaded vans were upper 20s, and at that price they felt cheap, but basic ones cost as little as $19k, and for that sort of money they seemed like a bargain.

    Of course with hind sight I'm glad I didn't go cheap because they have all sorts of issues. Alignment/tire issues crept up almost right away. I stopped following the Sedona threads so not sure what else went wrong with those.

    The KV7 concept looks promising so hopefully Kia can get it right for the next one. Toyota cut too many costs and my eyes hurt when I see the new Ody, plus they reserve the better drivetrain for the $40k+ Touring models only. The Dodge update went half way, let's see them go all the way like the Grand Cherokee did. To me there is no clear leader in the minivan segment now.

    If mine was totalled I'm not sure what I'd get, likely a used one.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    edited February 2012
    Toyota and Honda are like the girl next door.

    German cars are like the supermodel.

    Other Japanese cars are like the hot stripper/actress.

    American cars are like the Prostitute.

    Which one are you most likely to catch diseases from?

    P.S. I know my american car gave me the disease of STRESS.

    My Japanese car gave me the power of money, resale value, and low costs of ownership.

    My German car has (and still is) giving me the benefit of FUN, enjoyment, and satisfaction!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited February 2012
    Uh uh!

    Toyota and Honda are like the fat ugly girl who's got the "nice personality," can cook, and is your Mom's best friend's daughter.

    German cars are like the Vegas showgirl who will show you the time of your life before you wake-up the next morning hung-over in a trashed hotel room, with a painful new tattoo, a new wife, and an empty bank account.

    American girls are like the sensible pretty girl next door.

    Other Japanese cars are like the Goth chick staring off into space in the back of the classroom.

    Italian cars are like the hot stripper and actress.

    Chinese cars are like the crack ho.

    Korean cars are like the dull frumpy girl you can't stand but settle for because you have no money, no personality, no looks, no skills, and no self-esteem.

    My Buicks and Cadillacs give me the benefit of FUN, enjoyment, reliability, economy, and satisfaction!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You were on a roll until that last paragraph.

    Buick is the cougar who you KNOW is waaaaay too old for you but she's still kinda hot.

    Cadillac is dressed like a show girl but she's really an understudy. Her mom used to be the standard of the world.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    My Buicks and Cadillacs give me the benefit of FUN, enjoyment, reliability, economy, and satisfaction!

    I noticed you left Chevy out of that sentence. I think you've stooped down to Chevy's level before if I'm not mistaken when you were a younger lad.

    To continue the analogies:

    MB is like the incestuous love child of a drunken german engineer who drank too much moonshine (when they are used to German beer) which made the hillbilly southern girl look irresistable (that would be Chrysler).

    Audi is the college educated good looking one who went on to be a big time business success. VW is the "other" son who smokes too much dope so they have no ambition and never really try hard at anything.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I think of the Audi as the dope smokers dope smoking twin brother in a nice suit :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited February 2012
    OMG, that was a great post, Lemko!

    That's my belly laugh for the day and I sure needed one!

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >Buick is the cougar who you KNOW is waaaaay too old for you but she's still kinda hot.

    That's a great comeback. Of course, I have to disagree with the premise, but you get a gold star for that one along with Lemko's star.

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2012
    What about Saab and Volvo?

    Volvo is the female college professor who just got a make over recently and kinda looks cute now.

    Saab is that euro trash girl who you never really understood and behaves oddly. For some reason you still have a soft spot for her.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2012
    (The Saab with the Dragon Tattoo Juice? :-))

    A reporter is looking to speak with someone who bought a new Honda or Toyota within the last two months. Specifically, he’s most interested in speaking with someone who intentionally held off on buying one of these vehicles last year because the dealer did not have it in stock. If you meet this criteria, please send a brief description of your experience and your contact info to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Wednesday, February 29, 2012.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great movie.

    That girl is probably a Maserati, though. A 1980s Maserati, a wild ride but full of issues even when young. :D
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Mini is that hot petite girl with way more energy than you have, and she'll do anything you want and a few things you haven't though of!!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I look at Mini as the metrosexual college guy living on a parental stipend, especially the dopey looking coupe (saw one today, doesn't make sense to me).
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited February 2012
    Clever. Bravo!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If so then the Clubman is the same girl after gaining the Freshman 15. :D
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,796
    A3 is the Ru Paul of VW Golfs.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prius is the skinny, pale vegan girl you knew back in high school, but didn't pursue.

    The Scion FR-S is her punk rock sister, who is a carnivore.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I think I like the FR-S' twin sister a little more :D
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    If you are wondering if they are "mended" then check this out:

    Yota Rules Consumer Reports (again)

    Our brilliant benefactors at Consumer Reports have released their annual auto issue, and if Toyota was allowed to brag about it, they'd be tooting their horns over the fact that they took five of the top spots out of 10 categories. The April issue is jam-packed with car ratings for the discerning consumer, but companies aren't allowed to use those scores for commercial use. Sorry!

    Toyota is the first brand to earn so many spots in nearly a decade, says Consumer Reports. Honda pulled off that feat in 2003, but doesn't have a single entry on the top picks list this year.

    "Every year the competition grows tighter; in recent years as many as nine different brands have taken the top spots. Combined with the improved Camry, Toyota's ability to maintain a competitive lead among hybrids and SUVs is a big factor in its strong presence on this year's list," said Rik Paul, Consumer Reports' automotive editor.
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