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Comments
Naaaah. They just stepped on the wrong pedal--drivers' fault.
Or it's just the floor mat due to bad pedal design--floor mat's fault.
Or it's just a "sticky" pedal causing it--suppliers' fault.
Never could be something in the electronics.
Oh wait, whiskers in the pedal or the ECM might have been the problem in some of these cases over the last 10 years? Someone revisited the ECM theory earlier "theory of it being software or the ECU" could there be still other causes?
Kind of scary in Steve's link to RX350 topic:
"Friend of mine has a 2010 RX350. Almost had a horrible crash when his RX accelerated by itself on the highway. Brakes completely failed...threw it in neutral and he was ok. Car was towed away. Tow truck driver claimed this was the 10th time he has seen this...with this exact car. This just happend today. I have the exact same car. And now i am scared to death to drive it. We both have 12-16 months left on our 3 year leases. How can we get out of the lease? Lexus will say the cars are fine until there is an official recall. Put this situation into google and you can read about the hundreds of others this has happened to...?????"
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As I expected, once again we have a complete failure of independent hydraulic brakes lines.
Let me guess - Driver's age, 80+?
Average H2 lasting 35 years, now THAT's funny!
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16697b/21748#MSG21748
You'll believe anything.
Or, a Ford Fusion hybrid? Should a senior buying a last new car worry about rare earth availability?
Could I ask your opinions?
I need to drive my grandson (3 yrs.) around town and want good rear visibility, if possible. No trips over 150 miles. Small for parking in the garage at the mall or parallel parking.
I tried to get a white Honda Fit. None available within range of Santa Barbara. Grey isn't visible, black has to be washed too often. I'm really stumped.
To some people that is a reliable source and it all MUST be true, they are so gullible...
There you can sample a wide variety of cars without any sales pressure. Try them on for size, check visibility, comfort, make sure they have enough space to meet your needs, etc.
Then you can narrow it down to maybe 2-3 favorites and test drive those.
Auto makers are exploring alternatives to rare earth since its cost keeps escalating.
Diesel is a solid option, just factor the extra cost for the fuel itself, since diesel usually costs more than gas. Also, not all stations carry it.
Best of luck shopping! :shades:
Too much caffeine?
>Hey man you believed the Prius used
You don't know if I believed it or not. Or if I just posted it knowing someone would jump on it in desperation to disprove anything about toyota?
After someone ran with the first, I held off on the more interesting question of which is more ecologically gentle: Prius or Corolla?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think you meant to respond to Steve's post. He posted the link to the RX350 discussion:
Steve's link to RX350 topic linking to the RX 350 discussion...
Actually, I guess, someone who joined today and posted one time, in one discussion, certainly hasn't proven themselves--of course that's hard to do since time hasn't passed for them to get back on and show they're not just a run by poster putting up negatives about toyota.
Or would you rather have the poster post in each of 10 different topics related to Lexus and toyota in the manner of some posters who are posting with a grudge, and then they never return?
>I'm not as reliant on Edmunds forums to form my opinions...
Are you saying Steve is too reliant on Edmunds for opinions?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16697b/21743#MSG21743
One blames the Prius for the nickel mine that was in place for decades before the Prius even existed. Ironically the town was cleaned up right around the time they started supplying nickel for the NiMH Prius batteries.
Then you (once again) shared the H2-is-greener-than-a-Prius link.
All it takes is basic common sense to discredit the latter - so why did you share?
It wasn't the first time, either. :lemon:
Point is you are so biased it's like you're wearing blinders.
On the one-hit wonder thread, it's nice to reel new posters in add to the discussion, and some think a reputation management system would be beneficial too. But we do get plenty of one-hit posters who have valid things to say.
It would be entertaining to hide member names for a day and see if we could guess who's saying what. :shades:
Let's go to a better source that some web site from a guy who failed high school English THREE times. And no, these are not the Consumer Reports folks:
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/will-a-hybrid-save-me-money-in-the-lo- - ng-run4.htm
According to them a Prius breaks even, vs. a Corolla S, in less than 100,000 miles with current local gas pricing.
Sure you have to mine nickel but NiMH batteries are harmless, the lead-acid battery used in the Corolla is a HAZMAT.
So keep it long enough and the Prius is more ecologically gentle, IMHO.
I did, three weeks ago.
The only car I have EVER driven with worse steering was the first-gen Chevy Equinox. The steering in the Corolla is so light it feels like the steering wheel is falling off. There's about 45 degrees of slop on-center, made worse by the fact that it wanders all over the place when you drive it on the highway.
The interior is by far the tackiest of its competitors - I test drove the Focus and the Civic and sat in the Elantra (and also sat in the new Jetta, universally panned for its cheapened interior, and even that has better materials and visual appeal).
Best in class fuel economy? I think not, not even close.
Elantra: 28/40.
Civic: 28/39
Focus: 27/37 or 28/38 (without and with SelectShift)
Cruze: 26/38
Corolla: 26/34
Guess which one is the only one that still has an outdated-for-at-least-a-decade FOUR-speed automatic? Do you need a hint?! ;-)
The new Impreza, with the STANDARD AWD and ANOTHER 20 HP, makes better mileage: 27/36.
Beyond that, it is wheezy when you want to accelerate rapidly up the freeway onramp, giving the impression it needs every hp it has to do the job. Passing at speed requires forcing the transmission to shift down by grabbing the lever and yanking. It is not especially quiet, but it is at least fairly smooth at speed.
The car I drove had 4 miles on it. I had the chance to drive it for about a half hour in my hometown, because the dealer there lets you go out by yourself and pick your own route. My impression is this a car selling strictly on its name and enormous financial incentives, and if Toyota has to pay the customers this much to take them it damages the Corolla's name in the long-term. It is way beyond time for them to fully and totally update this car for the new decade.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Feel up to another test drive?
I have for approx. 2,000 miles on this generation (2009 to current).
I knew about some people complaining about steering, but I have not had any complaints about it - zero.
Interior - functional, but could have higher quality. I've noticed that about a lot of makes lately. I don't think this will have anything to do with long term reliability, though, and people are not buying a Corolla just to have a nice interior.
MPG - I found out where I read about the great mpg. See page 53 in October Consumer Reports. Overall MPG for Corolla is listed as 32 mpg. Of the 13 cars in the "Small Sedans" section, the Civic Hybrid is at 40, Jetta TDI 34, and next is - yep, the Corolla at 32. Not bad for that reliable 4 speed automatic. If I were buying an automatic (I hate them), I'd be concerned about all these 5, 6, etc. automatics - too new, too complicated, which may = poor reliability. At least you know you are getting something that will last with that horrible old 4 speed auto that still beats most in the real-world mpg test and has been tested to last. Now, this is not EPA testing, real world, the EPA numbers is what you listed above.
Now, I know people hate CR, and I know Toyota pays them off, etc. (Except that other companies must be paying them more because they have given Toyota a lot of bad PR in the past few years).
I have 1 family member and two family friends with this generation Corolla - they LOVE their cars.
On to other things I see in this forum - I know many people detest Toyota, and hope & pray they go out of business. Sad, very sad to have to live like that. I am not pointing out anyone in particular, as they do a good job with that themselves. I wish everyone and every car company well.
Previous saved info below.
http://www.lexus.com/recall/
What is the function of the "brake override system"?
Although an owner might never experience its operation, this braking system enhancement will automatically reduce engine power when the brake pedal and accelerator pedal are applied simultaneously under certain driving conditions.
The Brake Override System operates when these conditions are met:
a) The throttle opening is greater than 1/3
b) Vehicle speed is above 5 mph
c) Brakes are applied firmly
d) The accelerator pedal is applied before the brake pedal
Brake override was installed on recalled vehicles and read a report that you can get it for free on those not recalled if the computer had enough memory. It was installed on 2009 recalls but they do not say they will on 2010 mat recall.
Tee hee. I am not sure if that was a sideways reference to me, but I just bought one, so I hope they don't go out of business any time soon!
I've got two family members with Corollas, one who bought it because it was the cheapest car he could find among the half dozen makes he checked out. Even Hyundai didn't have a lower price on their Elantra. The other had hoped to get a Camry but "just couldn't pass up the Corolla being as cheap as it was". Now she complains about the seats and the lack of power, but she is stuck with it for a little while.
Ultimately if Toyota can hang onto its reliability rep the Corolla will garner sales regardless of its negative qualities, which may be all that Toyota hopes for it, but it would be nice if its historic spot near the top of the heap (on its own merits, without cash incentives) were restored.
There's got to be a reason Toyota has so many 2011 Corollas and RAV4s left (here in January 2012) that it has to have this huge TV ad blitz and offer such cut-rate promo financing, no payments for 90 days, cash back, etc to get rid of them. What could it be?! ;-)
(By coincidence those are two of the few models left in the Toyota lineup with a 4-speed auto... :-))
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Around here, there are no big TV ads/offers for Corolla or Rav, but yes, I do agree that they are the only ones with the 4 speed auto.
Now, since Toyota has completely paid for all of their costs on the Corolla and Rav LONG ago, these two cars I am sure are putting a good amount of money right to the bottom line. That's why they can put incentives out there, while Hyundai is still paying depreciation for the costs of those expensive, new transmissions, etc. Also, I remember seeing that Toyota's cost to produce is about the lowest of any automaker.
Toyota has always been a bit slower on the new stuff (audio, engine tech, etc), but they typically do a great job once they put the new tech on their production cars, so does it surprise me that the Corolla still has the 4 speed auto? Absolutely not. Will they put a 5 auto in the next gen Corolla coming out in a year - I'm sure they will. I also think they are a little slower than normal due to the problems that they have had (and admitted to) in the last few years - slow down, get it 100% right the first time.
Again, CR measured 13 small sedans for mpg, and the old, outdated Corolla finished 3rd, behind a diesel and a hybrid. That's pretty good, and they are putting money "in the bank" with this car (and in my pocket, since I own Toyota stock!!). I bought Toyota stock at the height of the media blitz on the SUA, since their stock was way down because of it.
How does that compare to other manufacturers?
Remember, before the Saylor case hit the media, Ford had double the complaints per NHTSA.
They are the oldest models in the lineup.
Corolla has to compete with ... well, every competitor is newer at this point. Elantra, Civic, Focus, Cruze. Only the Sentra is as dated.
Same for the RAV4. Only the Escape is older, and Ford will launch the new one before Toyota does. New CR-V is out, Rogue, Forester, Equinox are all fresher.
This is a normal part of the product cycle.
4 speed auto, just like my fintail :shades:
URL: http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/Picture-430.png
First, the reporting needs to be done in a way that valid problems can't be hidden or recategorized. And Ford did show a higher problem rate before the media publicized the problem in toyota. People complained that dealers poo-poohed them when they did try to make a complaint about a problem, valid or invalid.
The complaints need to be compared within various models and generations to see if there are problems with some equipment. Comparing a whole car company with another company may not expose if there are problematic equipment groups within subsets.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Perhaps there are a bunch locally, but Toyota is still very, very short on supply:
Days Days
supply supply
1-Jan 1-Dec
2012 2011
Lexus car (I) 11,800 26 39
Lexus trk. (D/I) 6,800 14 23
Total Lexus (D/I) 18,600 20 31
Toyota/Scion car (D/I) 131,400 41 46
Toyota trk. (D/I) 85,800 35 43
Total Toyota/Scion (D/I) 217,300 38 45
TOYOTA MOTOR SALES† 235,900 36 43
So all divisions are well short of the ideal 60 day supply, and the problem is worse than it was a year ago (pre-tsunami, so that makes sense).
Subaru is worse, just 18 days' supply. Wow.
Saab has 221 days' supply. I bet they never sell all of them.
Hyundai/Kia has just 30 days, despite no disruption. They're on a roll.
Honda only has 38 days. Nissan has 57, so they fared best among the big [non-permissible content removed] brands.
GM is managing inventory much better, down from 86 days' last year to a near-ideal 67 days' now.
Ford as well, from 73 last year to a perfect 60 days' supply now.
Chrysler's at 64, also good.
BMW is very short, just 26 days. They had big incentives at the end of the year so that makes sense. Benz has 49 days. Lexus has less than either with just 20 days' supply.
No real glut of inventory except for Mitsubishi and Saab.
True, and I think it was Edmunds (?) who went through and found that Ford had twice as many cases after screening them.
People complained that dealers poo-poohed them
Should not matter - we are talking about complaints to NHTSA. If a dealer does that the customer is more likely to complain to NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation, not less likely.
I made no mention of being dependent on fleets or compared to D3, only that the Corolla and RAV go to fleets too. Calm down, Toyolex isn't perfect, and they aren't an underdog.
The poor take taxis.
The smart take the subway.
The rich hire a driver.
You'd think the Lincoln Town Car was the best selling model.
Corolla more so than RAV4. I haven't seen RAV4 rentals. Ford Escape has that market cornered.
If you peek at that chart, you'll see they cut fleet sales substantially as supply dwindled. Common sense - they're less profitable, so sell to consumers instead.
I'd expect to see more Camry, Corolla, even Sienna than RAV4, though.
And I think at SEA, Camry is like every other Hertz car, seriously.
Someone in ATL has a fleet of Venzas too, which is maybe the oddest.
I hope they don't buy the ones with 20" rims, though. Ridiculous.
I came across an interesting set of data, some dyno runs for a Camaro, oddly enough, but it supports my point about these silly wheel sizes.
http://www.davenportmotorsports.com/
Can't find the exact link now but that's the dyno shop that ran the tests. Results, with wheel swap only:
Stock 68 lbs wheel+tire package made 371hp.
Aftermarket 72 lbs wheels made 369hp.
Forged wheels (60 lbs) made a whopping 380hp!
That's an 11hp difference just from a 12 lb weight loss at each corner! :surprise:
The gains are shown at all RPMs, too, even 2000rpm it's obvious. Here's the dyno chart:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrewheels/6757639011/
I don't know what those 20" rims weigh that they put on the Venza, but I'd wager they lose measurable power by going to such a ridiculous size.
Venza buyers might be smart to lease and get out before the tires are worn...they'll have an unpleasant surprise if they don't.
Rovers should come with semi-knobby tires with huge sidewalls mounted on 15" steelies. :shades:
$528 would just about buy 4 sets for my '82 Tercel back in the day. No heavy unsprung weight on that peppy little 5 speed. :shades:
Each, or the set?
Actually I would not mind getting a Focus as a rental, not at all.
The trans is my only concern and if I didn't own it, who cares?
Almost every new style Taurus I see around here is a rental.
A top Toyota executive wrote that the automaker colored the truth during the furor over sudden acceleration problems to make the company’s story seem more palatable to the public, according to a document obtained by The Huffington Post. In an email sent in 2010, Toyota's quality chief urged company officials to cease taking liberties with the truth, asserting that they were putting Toyota's credibility at risk.
"I feel that there have been certain statements made, while not entirely untruthful per se, that avoided direct confrontation of the truth," wrote Shinichi Sasaki, an executive vice president of Toyota Motor Corp., in an email to 11 other top executives. These statements were made, he wrote, "because they would appeal to the public."
Sasaki's email and other internal communications documenting Toyota's responses and reactions to the unfolding crisises in 2009 and 2010 are likely to play significant roles in lawsuits against the company that will come to trial starting early next year.
Toyota is facing nearly 200 lawsuits over claims that its vehicles accelerated out of control, killing or injuring passengers as well allegations from Toyota car owners that their vehicle's value was damaged by the recalls. All of the pretrial work in these cases is taking place in a California federal court. The judge there has granted Toyota's request for confidentiality, so the related documents are not public.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/toyota-sudden-acceleration-internal-ema- il_n_1232279.html?ref=mostpopular
13"!!! Those are the sizes they used to quote as loss leaders as Sears. Should be cheap. :surprise:
Does it really have 13 in. rims?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess all those owners haven't believed the importance of the NASA reports on acceleration and on whiskers?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Corolla has to compete with ... well, every competitor is newer at this point. Elantra, Civic, Focus, Cruze. Only the Sentra is as dated.
Same for the RAV4.
Yes, thanks juice, that was exactly my point. It has been ten years (yes that's right, since the release of the '03 Corolla in Feb 2002) since the powertrain in the Corolla has had any updates. In fact, it has had precious few updates in any regard, except to fix the funky seating position of the '02-'07 and to make the interior a little cheaper-feeling (and the steering worse than the overboosted system it already was in the '03).
Meanwhile, RAV4 is in year seven without any updates, but perhaps next year will be the year, who knows. Escape and CRV are gradually running away from RAV in sales, a little more every year to the point where there is a significant gulf between it and the two compact crossover sales leaders.
Honda did such a weak update to the CRV, Escape is really the one to beat in this segment. It would be nice to see Toyota to actually TRY a little (as they so rarely have since Y2K) when they update the RAV.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)