Toyota on the mend?

1294295297299300319

Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Maybe they can get their hands on this one and check it too.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    edited January 2012
    >check it too.

    Naaaah. They just stepped on the wrong pedal--drivers' fault.
    Or it's just the floor mat due to bad pedal design--floor mat's fault.
    Or it's just a "sticky" pedal causing it--suppliers' fault.

    Never could be something in the electronics.

    Oh wait, whiskers in the pedal or the ECM might have been the problem in some of these cases over the last 10 years? Someone revisited the ECM theory earlier "theory of it being software or the ECU" could there be still other causes?

    Kind of scary in Steve's link to RX350 topic:

    "Friend of mine has a 2010 RX350. Almost had a horrible crash when his RX accelerated by itself on the highway. Brakes completely failed...threw it in neutral and he was ok. Car was towed away. Tow truck driver claimed this was the 10th time he has seen this...with this exact car. This just happend today. I have the exact same car. And now i am scared to death to drive it. We both have 12-16 months left on our 3 year leases. How can we get out of the lease? Lexus will say the cars are fine until there is an official recall. Put this situation into google and you can read about the hundreds of others this has happened to...?????"

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Friend of mine ... Brakes completely failed

    As I expected, once again we have a complete failure of independent hydraulic brakes lines.

    Let me guess - Driver's age, 80+? :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey man you believed the Prius used more energy cradle-to-grave then a Hummer H2 (even the source had to yank that claim), you'll believe anything negative about Toyota.

    Average H2 lasting 35 years, now THAT's funny!

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16697b/21748#MSG21748

    You'll believe anything.
  • forsfors Member Posts: 3
    How about diesels like a Golf?
    Or, a Ford Fusion hybrid? Should a senior buying a last new car worry about rare earth availability?
    Could I ask your opinions?
    I need to drive my grandson (3 yrs.) around town and want good rear visibility, if possible. No trips over 150 miles. Small for parking in the garage at the mall or parallel parking.
    I tried to get a white Honda Fit. None available within range of Santa Barbara. Grey isn't visible, black has to be washed too often. I'm really stumped.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited January 2012
    I have thing about believing the one time "drop and run" type poster validity, but then again I'm not as reliant on Edmunds forums to form my opinions... :lemon:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good catch, nateg1 logged in only once and posted once, hasn't been back since.

    To some people that is a reliable source and it all MUST be true, they are so gullible...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For you I'd suggest attending a local auto show, if one will be in town soon.

    There you can sample a wide variety of cars without any sales pressure. Try them on for size, check visibility, comfort, make sure they have enough space to meet your needs, etc.

    Then you can narrow it down to maybe 2-3 favorites and test drive those.

    Auto makers are exploring alternatives to rare earth since its cost keeps escalating.

    Diesel is a solid option, just factor the extra cost for the fuel itself, since diesel usually costs more than gas. Also, not all stations carry it.

    Best of luck shopping! :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    edited January 2012
    >Hey man

    Too much caffeine?

    >Hey man you believed the Prius used

    You don't know if I believed it or not. Or if I just posted it knowing someone would jump on it in desperation to disprove anything about toyota?

    After someone ran with the first, I held off on the more interesting question of which is more ecologically gentle: Prius or Corolla?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    edited January 2012
    >I have thing about believing the one time "drop and run" type poster validity

    I think you meant to respond to Steve's post. He posted the link to the RX350 discussion:

    Steve's link to RX350 topic linking to the RX 350 discussion...

    Actually, I guess, someone who joined today and posted one time, in one discussion, certainly hasn't proven themselves--of course that's hard to do since time hasn't passed for them to get back on and show they're not just a run by poster putting up negatives about toyota.

    Or would you rather have the poster post in each of 10 different topics related to Lexus and toyota in the manner of some posters who are posting with a grudge, and then they never return?

    >I'm not as reliant on Edmunds forums to form my opinions...

    Are you saying Steve is too reliant on Edmunds for opinions?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You shared two bogus claims here:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16697b/21743#MSG21743

    One blames the Prius for the nickel mine that was in place for decades before the Prius even existed. Ironically the town was cleaned up right around the time they started supplying nickel for the NiMH Prius batteries.

    Then you (once again) shared the H2-is-greener-than-a-Prius link.

    All it takes is basic common sense to discredit the latter - so why did you share?

    It wasn't the first time, either. :lemon:

    Point is you are so biased it's like you're wearing blinders.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    We're getting a bit off-track and making it too personal in here. Let's stick to the cars please.

    On the one-hit wonder thread, it's nice to reel new posters in add to the discussion, and some think a reputation management system would be beneficial too. But we do get plenty of one-hit posters who have valid things to say.

    It would be entertaining to hide member names for a day and see if we could guess who's saying what. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    more interesting question of which is more ecologically gentle: Prius or Corolla?

    Let's go to a better source that some web site from a guy who failed high school English THREE times. And no, these are not the Consumer Reports folks:

    http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/will-a-hybrid-save-me-money-in-the-lo- - ng-run4.htm

    According to them a Prius breaks even, vs. a Corolla S, in less than 100,000 miles with current local gas pricing.

    Sure you have to mine nickel but NiMH batteries are harmless, the lead-acid battery used in the Corolla is a HAZMAT.

    So keep it long enough and the Prius is more ecologically gentle, IMHO.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that when I posted my thoughts on the Corolla, so many folks jumped in to defend it. I had no idea the car was that well loved. The car has a great history behind it, and even now the new ones will probably last forever just like the old ones, but beyond that I wonder how many people posting in its favor have been in one or driven one lately.

    I did, three weeks ago.

    The only car I have EVER driven with worse steering was the first-gen Chevy Equinox. The steering in the Corolla is so light it feels like the steering wheel is falling off. There's about 45 degrees of slop on-center, made worse by the fact that it wanders all over the place when you drive it on the highway.

    The interior is by far the tackiest of its competitors - I test drove the Focus and the Civic and sat in the Elantra (and also sat in the new Jetta, universally panned for its cheapened interior, and even that has better materials and visual appeal).

    Best in class fuel economy? I think not, not even close.
    Elantra: 28/40.
    Civic: 28/39
    Focus: 27/37 or 28/38 (without and with SelectShift)
    Cruze: 26/38

    Corolla: 26/34

    Guess which one is the only one that still has an outdated-for-at-least-a-decade FOUR-speed automatic? Do you need a hint?! ;-)

    The new Impreza, with the STANDARD AWD and ANOTHER 20 HP, makes better mileage: 27/36.

    Beyond that, it is wheezy when you want to accelerate rapidly up the freeway onramp, giving the impression it needs every hp it has to do the job. Passing at speed requires forcing the transmission to shift down by grabbing the lever and yanking. It is not especially quiet, but it is at least fairly smooth at speed.

    The car I drove had 4 miles on it. I had the chance to drive it for about a half hour in my hometown, because the dealer there lets you go out by yourself and pick your own route. My impression is this a car selling strictly on its name and enormous financial incentives, and if Toyota has to pay the customers this much to take them it damages the Corolla's name in the long-term. It is way beyond time for them to fully and totally update this car for the new decade.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Have to wonder if the tires were still over-inflated for shipping.

    Feel up to another test drive? ;)
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    "but beyond that I wonder how many people posting in its favor have been in one or driven one lately"

    I have for approx. 2,000 miles on this generation (2009 to current).
    I knew about some people complaining about steering, but I have not had any complaints about it - zero.

    Interior - functional, but could have higher quality. I've noticed that about a lot of makes lately. I don't think this will have anything to do with long term reliability, though, and people are not buying a Corolla just to have a nice interior.

    MPG - I found out where I read about the great mpg. See page 53 in October Consumer Reports. Overall MPG for Corolla is listed as 32 mpg. Of the 13 cars in the "Small Sedans" section, the Civic Hybrid is at 40, Jetta TDI 34, and next is - yep, the Corolla at 32. Not bad for that reliable 4 speed automatic. If I were buying an automatic (I hate them), I'd be concerned about all these 5, 6, etc. automatics - too new, too complicated, which may = poor reliability. At least you know you are getting something that will last with that horrible old 4 speed auto that still beats most in the real-world mpg test and has been tested to last. Now, this is not EPA testing, real world, the EPA numbers is what you listed above.

    Now, I know people hate CR, and I know Toyota pays them off, etc. (Except that other companies must be paying them more because they have given Toyota a lot of bad PR in the past few years).

    I have 1 family member and two family friends with this generation Corolla - they LOVE their cars.

    On to other things I see in this forum - I know many people detest Toyota, and hope & pray they go out of business. Sad, very sad to have to live like that. I am not pointing out anyone in particular, as they do a good job with that themselves. I wish everyone and every car company well.
  • frankokfrankok Member Posts: 3
    Toyota SUA is on the airways more again. It will take the big CA trial with 10 experts checking their secret code to settle the issue. Still were over 300 complaints last year. Does anyone know if brake override can still be installed for free? If not and I owned one I would get it done - pay on a credit card when I pick it up - then consider disputing the charge. This old fart would still have to be stepping on the brake and not the accelerator pedal.

    Previous saved info below.
    http://www.lexus.com/recall/
    What is the function of the "brake override system"?

    Although an owner might never experience its operation, this braking system enhancement will automatically reduce engine power when the brake pedal and accelerator pedal are applied simultaneously under certain driving conditions.

    The Brake Override System operates when these conditions are met:

    a) The throttle opening is greater than 1/3

    b) Vehicle speed is above 5 mph

    c) Brakes are applied firmly

    d) The accelerator pedal is applied before the brake pedal


    Brake override was installed on recalled vehicles and read a report that you can get it for free on those not recalled if the computer had enough memory. It was installed on 2009 recalls but they do not say they will on 2010 mat recall.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I know many people detest Toyota, and hope & pray they go out of business.

    Tee hee. I am not sure if that was a sideways reference to me, but I just bought one, so I hope they don't go out of business any time soon!

    I've got two family members with Corollas, one who bought it because it was the cheapest car he could find among the half dozen makes he checked out. Even Hyundai didn't have a lower price on their Elantra. The other had hoped to get a Camry but "just couldn't pass up the Corolla being as cheap as it was". Now she complains about the seats and the lack of power, but she is stuck with it for a little while.

    Ultimately if Toyota can hang onto its reliability rep the Corolla will garner sales regardless of its negative qualities, which may be all that Toyota hopes for it, but it would be nice if its historic spot near the top of the heap (on its own merits, without cash incentives) were restored.

    There's got to be a reason Toyota has so many 2011 Corollas and RAV4s left (here in January 2012) that it has to have this huge TV ad blitz and offer such cut-rate promo financing, no payments for 90 days, cash back, etc to get rid of them. What could it be?! ;-)

    (By coincidence those are two of the few models left in the Toyota lineup with a 4-speed auto... :-))

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    No, not pointing to you.

    Around here, there are no big TV ads/offers for Corolla or Rav, but yes, I do agree that they are the only ones with the 4 speed auto.

    Now, since Toyota has completely paid for all of their costs on the Corolla and Rav LONG ago, these two cars I am sure are putting a good amount of money right to the bottom line. That's why they can put incentives out there, while Hyundai is still paying depreciation for the costs of those expensive, new transmissions, etc. Also, I remember seeing that Toyota's cost to produce is about the lowest of any automaker.

    Toyota has always been a bit slower on the new stuff (audio, engine tech, etc), but they typically do a great job once they put the new tech on their production cars, so does it surprise me that the Corolla still has the 4 speed auto? Absolutely not. Will they put a 5 auto in the next gen Corolla coming out in a year - I'm sure they will. I also think they are a little slower than normal due to the problems that they have had (and admitted to) in the last few years - slow down, get it 100% right the first time.

    Again, CR measured 13 small sedans for mpg, and the old, outdated Corolla finished 3rd, behind a diesel and a hybrid. That's pretty good, and they are putting money "in the bank" with this car (and in my pocket, since I own Toyota stock!!). I bought Toyota stock at the height of the media blitz on the SUA, since their stock was way down because of it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    over 300 complaints last year

    How does that compare to other manufacturers?

    Remember, before the Saylor case hit the media, Ford had double the complaints per NHTSA.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's got to be a reason Toyota has so many 2011 Corollas and RAV4s left

    They are the oldest models in the lineup.

    Corolla has to compete with ... well, every competitor is newer at this point. Elantra, Civic, Focus, Cruze. Only the Sentra is as dated.

    Same for the RAV4. Only the Escape is older, and Ford will launch the new one before Toyota does. New CR-V is out, Rogue, Forester, Equinox are all fresher.

    This is a normal part of the product cycle.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    I do find it funny that they are stuck with a load of leftover 11s. Those are also models Toyota dumps into fleets. Maybe they should just sell off the rest to the rental brigade.

    4 speed auto, just like my fintail :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Unless there has been a dramatic change in the past 6 months (please provide a source if that's your claim), Toyota doesn't rely too much on fleets the way the D3 do:

    image

    URL: http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/Picture-430.png
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >How does that compare to other manufacturers? ... Ford had double the complaints per NHTSA.

    First, the reporting needs to be done in a way that valid problems can't be hidden or recategorized. And Ford did show a higher problem rate before the media publicized the problem in toyota. People complained that dealers poo-poohed them when they did try to make a complaint about a problem, valid or invalid.

    The complaints need to be compared within various models and generations to see if there are problems with some equipment. Comparing a whole car company with another company may not expose if there are problematic equipment groups within subsets.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Source: http://stage.autonews.com/article/20120113/DATACENTER/120119883

    Perhaps there are a bunch locally, but Toyota is still very, very short on supply:

    Days Days
    supply supply
    1-Jan 1-Dec
    2012 2011

    Lexus car (I) 11,800 26 39
    Lexus trk. (D/I) 6,800 14 23
    Total Lexus (D/I) 18,600 20 31
    Toyota/Scion car (D/I) 131,400 41 46
    Toyota trk. (D/I) 85,800 35 43
    Total Toyota/Scion (D/I) 217,300 38 45
    TOYOTA MOTOR SALES† 235,900 36 43

    So all divisions are well short of the ideal 60 day supply, and the problem is worse than it was a year ago (pre-tsunami, so that makes sense).

    Subaru is worse, just 18 days' supply. Wow.

    Saab has 221 days' supply. I bet they never sell all of them.

    Hyundai/Kia has just 30 days, despite no disruption. They're on a roll.

    Honda only has 38 days. Nissan has 57, so they fared best among the big [non-permissible content removed] brands.

    GM is managing inventory much better, down from 86 days' last year to a near-ideal 67 days' now.

    Ford as well, from 73 last year to a perfect 60 days' supply now.

    Chrysler's at 64, also good.

    BMW is very short, just 26 days. They had big incentives at the end of the year so that makes sense. Benz has 49 days. Lexus has less than either with just 20 days' supply.

    No real glut of inventory except for Mitsubishi and Saab.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    the reporting needs to be done in a way that valid problems can't be hidden or recategorized

    True, and I think it was Edmunds (?) who went through and found that Ford had twice as many cases after screening them.

    People complained that dealers poo-poohed them

    Should not matter - we are talking about complaints to NHTSA. If a dealer does that the customer is more likely to complain to NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation, not less likely.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited January 2012
    Go to your local airport and see for yourself. Creative accounting and what is on the street might not match up. And knowing what Hertz has become, some of those July 2010 sales are still out there.

    I made no mention of being dependent on fleets or compared to D3, only that the Corolla and RAV go to fleets too. Calm down, Toyolex isn't perfect, and they aren't an underdog.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    DC isn't that type of place.

    The poor take taxis.

    The smart take the subway.

    The rich hire a driver.

    You'd think the Lincoln Town Car was the best selling model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    only that the Corolla and RAV go to fleets too

    Corolla more so than RAV4. I haven't seen RAV4 rentals. Ford Escape has that market cornered.

    If you peek at that chart, you'll see they cut fleet sales substantially as supply dwindled. Common sense - they're less profitable, so sell to consumers instead.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Or could that just be a 2011 earthquake anomaly? There are RAV4 rentals.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    I forgot, it's the most corrupt and unjustifiably wealthy place in the country :shades: :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prior year numbers are also there. Someone said the big brands average 15% to fleets, so their numbers weren't bad even back then.

    I'd expect to see more Camry, Corolla, even Sienna than RAV4, though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At least everything is free (Smithsonian) to visit.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    It's on my bucket list.

    And I think at SEA, Camry is like every other Hertz car, seriously.

    Someone in ATL has a fleet of Venzas too, which is maybe the oddest.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Well, those are Camry wagons, basically. Tourists have luggage, so in a way that makes sense.

    I hope they don't buy the ones with 20" rims, though. Ridiculous.

    I came across an interesting set of data, some dyno runs for a Camaro, oddly enough, but it supports my point about these silly wheel sizes.

    http://www.davenportmotorsports.com/

    Can't find the exact link now but that's the dyno shop that ran the tests. Results, with wheel swap only:

    Stock 68 lbs wheel+tire package made 371hp.

    Aftermarket 72 lbs wheels made 369hp.

    Forged wheels (60 lbs) made a whopping 380hp!

    That's an 11hp difference just from a 12 lb weight loss at each corner! :surprise:

    The gains are shown at all RPMs, too, even 2000rpm it's obvious. Here's the dyno chart:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrewheels/6757639011/

    I don't know what those 20" rims weigh that they put on the Venza, but I'd wager they lose measurable power by going to such a ridiculous size.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited January 2012
    And when you see old cars with big blingy Chinese made wheels, think how the already deteriorated performance is impacted. Dumb people.

    Venza buyers might be smart to lease and get out before the tires are worn...they'll have an unpleasant surprise if they don't.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here at work a buddy has a Range Rover Sport and nearly fainted when the dealer quoted him $3 grand for brakes and tires at just 23k miles.

    Rovers should come with semi-knobby tires with huge sidewalls mounted on 15" steelies. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Makes the $587 I paid for tires for my Mercury Grand Marquis a couple of days ago look like chump change.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    Paid $528 for a set of Nokians for my Subaru last week. Durn oversized 15" wheels; barely enough room in the wheel wells when you drive in the snow and ice.

    $528 would just about buy 4 sets for my '82 Tercel back in the day. No heavy unsprung weight on that peppy little 5 speed. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $587, $528, ...

    Each, or the set? ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/27/ford-tops-in-non-retail-sales-45-of-focus-sol- d-to-fleets/

    Actually I would not mind getting a Focus as a rental, not at all.

    The trans is my only concern and if I didn't own it, who cares?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    E55 set me back almost $1300 with tax last time around. Don't even ask about AMG brakes. Fintail gets wide whitewall radials next time, that won't be cheap, but with 13" wheels not as bad as it could be.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    There are so many worse rental boxes to be stuck in. Ford does a huge fleet business, but the cars aren't so bad.

    Almost every new style Taurus I see around here is a rental.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    First Posted: 01/27/2012 8:24 am
    A top Toyota executive wrote that the automaker colored the truth during the furor over sudden acceleration problems to make the company’s story seem more palatable to the public, according to a document obtained by The Huffington Post. In an email sent in 2010, Toyota's quality chief urged company officials to cease taking liberties with the truth, asserting that they were putting Toyota's credibility at risk.

    "I feel that there have been certain statements made, while not entirely untruthful per se, that avoided direct confrontation of the truth," wrote Shinichi Sasaki, an executive vice president of Toyota Motor Corp., in an email to 11 other top executives. These statements were made, he wrote, "because they would appeal to the public."

    Sasaki's email and other internal communications documenting Toyota's responses and reactions to the unfolding crisises in 2009 and 2010 are likely to play significant roles in lawsuits against the company that will come to trial starting early next year.

    Toyota is facing nearly 200 lawsuits over claims that its vehicles accelerated out of control, killing or injuring passengers as well allegations from Toyota car owners that their vehicle's value was damaged by the recalls. All of the pretrial work in these cases is taking place in a California federal court. The judge there has granted Toyota's request for confidentiality, so the related documents are not public.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/toyota-sudden-acceleration-internal-ema- il_n_1232279.html?ref=mostpopular
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >but with 13" wheels

    13"!!! Those are the sizes they used to quote as loss leaders as Sears. Should be cheap. :surprise:

    Does it really have 13 in. rims?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >Toyota is facing nearly 200 lawsuits over claims that its vehicles accelerated out of control, killing or injuring passengers as well allegations from Toyota car owners that their vehicle's value was damaged by the recalls.

    I guess all those owners haven't believed the importance of the NASA reports on acceleration and on whiskers? ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Yep, all fintails have 13" wheels unless larger wheels were special ordered, some other models (190SL comes to mind) have them too. I'm not sure what the point was - economy or maybe to make the car look larger than it is.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited January 2012
    They are the oldest models in the lineup.

    Corolla has to compete with ... well, every competitor is newer at this point. Elantra, Civic, Focus, Cruze. Only the Sentra is as dated.

    Same for the RAV4.


    Yes, thanks juice, that was exactly my point. It has been ten years (yes that's right, since the release of the '03 Corolla in Feb 2002) since the powertrain in the Corolla has had any updates. In fact, it has had precious few updates in any regard, except to fix the funky seating position of the '02-'07 and to make the interior a little cheaper-feeling (and the steering worse than the overboosted system it already was in the '03).

    Meanwhile, RAV4 is in year seven without any updates, but perhaps next year will be the year, who knows. Escape and CRV are gradually running away from RAV in sales, a little more every year to the point where there is a significant gulf between it and the two compact crossover sales leaders.

    Honda did such a weak update to the CRV, Escape is really the one to beat in this segment. It would be nice to see Toyota to actually TRY a little (as they so rarely have since Y2K) when they update the RAV.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Speaking of rentals, I have read that the National/Alamo/Enterprise group has just acquired a large fleet of 2012 Avalons. I assume a new version is upcoming, maybe a way to clear out the last of the old style.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've actually seen some speculation that the Avalon will be going away in the not too distant future. There doesn't seem to be that big of a market for large sedans these days. Taurus isn't that big of a seller and Lucerne is gone. I guess when people go larger they tend to move up into CUV's.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.