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Toyota on the mend?

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Can't see, but I'm guessing it's ultra-cliche - the pic of Predator.

    Am I right? :P
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    I don't need to see it in person. Just look at that face.

    That Chevy is kind of odd to me, like it is leaning forward - but overall not bad from the sides anyway. The van is a mess.

    That grille is a bad styling theme.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    Hmm looks like swoopy L stylists are imitating history.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    No, the Predator is the Juke. This is more of an early 1960s automotive reference. Think of Exner at his worst.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Apologies, then.

    Got a URL for me?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Whoops...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=69DyIYzw7bo
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Pic:
    image
    URL:
    1961 Plymouth Fury
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That pic I can see.

    OK, I get the connection with the scoops near the center, but the Lexus has the hideaway headlights with the 3-gun projector lights, and also the prominent "blades" along the sides of the bumper.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/lexus-lf-lc-concept-detroit-2012/

    proves Lexus can do sexy sports coupes

    The hot-looking coupe was penned by Lexus' Calty design studio in Newport Beach, California

    Those who have seen it in person seem to like it more than any of us do, FWIW.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    When "proves Lexus can do sexy sports coupes" is said about a car that technically doesn't exist (does this thing even have a running engine?), it reeks of something a little less than unbiased.

    FWIW.......
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    edited January 2012
    Hourglass mesh or lattice grille, bug eye lights, and the Dodge just has blades above the lights instead of at the sides. 1961 was not a banner year.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    But knee-bucklingly beautiful? Seriously? Doesn't sound very reasoned.

    Well, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. :surprise:

    I remember many years ago somebody told me "You know the Japanese cars are always styled weird. They're really into bugs. Every car has to look like a bug." That always stuck with me. Seems pretty true, too.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    I think lemko calls it the "stinkbug" look. I can see that in quite a few cars. And in the 21st century, we now get pokemon faces, too. Progress.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/13/ford-fusion-lexus-lf-lc-win-eyes-on-design-aw- ards/

    Best concept as voted by other designers.

    My fave (140 S) was an honorable mention.

    Fusion won (easily) among production cars. Ford managed to mix Aston Martin, Audi, and Mondeo and came up a winner.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Enzo, SLR were ugly. Blame the wind tunnel I guess.

    People who have seen the Lexus in person like it.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/16/lexus-pondering-ct-variants-seven-seat-people- -mover/

    nine new or significantly updated models before the end of this year

    Including volume models. I didn't realize the ES would arrive before the new IS.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    If autoblog counts as media :P

    That front end, I can't see anyone who is a student of design embracing it. I think Lexus has invented a new design problem - pretty sides, ugly front and rear.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    Good to see they are taking things seriously...their lineup was growing very stale, and sales figures support that.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can't see anyone who is a student of design embracing it

    That's just it, they did. From the article:

    What's particularly interesting is that the judges for these two awards (one for production vehicles and the other for concepts) are all active or retired designers themselves, so they know a little something about the topic. This year's group includes, among others, Volkswagen head of design Walter de Silva, President and CEO of SRT Ralph Gilles, and GM Vice President of Global Design Ed Welburn.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, it's a normal part of the product life cycle.

    Plus competitors' cars had come out - the new 5er, E class, and a refreshed C class.

    The 3er and several Lexus are due next.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    We've had a new and then facelift C since the IS came around.

    Did Lexus make anything to compete with the E and 5er? :shades:
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    Includes, among others. Doesn't say who actually voted for what, I don't believe a unanimous vote is needed.

    Again, nice from the sides, hard to defend that face.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    I keep seeing good reviews on the new GS. They dropped the V8, so no full lineup like the Germans. It's lighter, though.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It got the most votes.

    Are you in denial, perhaps? Others like it, sure it's subjective, but get over yourself.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    Find some credible quotes about the solidity of that front end design. The side profile hasn't earned criticism.

    Making post titles like yours and then telling someone to get over themselves, funny. ;)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    It's gotta be better than the old one. I await to see it...if they made a diesel I'd even give it a look in a few years.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's too easy to cherry-pick criticisms; you have to evaluate the design as a whole.

    Title was (obviously) tongue-in-cheek.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,340
    Europe and many states mandate a front license plate. The side view still looks good.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "CNW found Toyota median age is now up to 51 years — older than Chrysler and approaching Ford."

    Primary Drivers’ Median Age Tells a Tale (autoremarketing.com)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not surprising, really. They went by brand, and it's Scion that targets the young folks, not Toyota.

    They didn't mention, but last time I saw a demographic study like that, Kia had the youngest median age among buyers. Since then the brand had grown substantially, so I bet they're older now, too.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not saying much, given the (lack of) competition:

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2012-01-18/midsize-pickup-truck-shooto- ut/52650846/1

    Let's see GM/Ford bring their new pickups here with a small diesel. Even the best gas mileage in the test (Ridgeline) was nothing to brag about.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited January 2012
    Toyota To China: Take Your Rare Earth And Shove It

    “Toyota will keep using rare earths if their prices drop, but will consider putting the newly acquired technology into practical use if their value continues to surge.”
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good for them.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    Ah China, what a country
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If Toyota does indeed have a way to bypass the use of Rare Earth magnets, why hesitate to use it? Something fishy sounding to me. China is holding the World hostage with their 80% of the Rare Earths supply. You cannot build anything today electrical or electronic without some of it. The US at one time was the largest supplier of Rare Earths. Politics and Environmentalist shut down our operation. The main reason we cannot compete building wind mills and Solar Panels. If Japan can build electric motors without Rare Earths they may have saved $billions over time.

    http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/rare_earths/

    It sounds like China has tied up a huge Rare Earths deposit in Afghanistan.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota's Sudden Acceleration Problem May Have Been Triggered By Tin Whiskers

    Tin Whiskers :P
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    We can nip that theory right in the bud...

    In all cases, releasing the accelerator pedal closes the throttle, and brakes are fully operational

    Here's a better source before the media gets it wrong again:

    http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2011-NASA-GSFC-whisker-failur- e-app-sensor.pdf
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited January 2012
    Good to see they are taking things seriously...their lineup was growing very stale, and sales figures support that.

    Yes, but what news of the needed TOTAL REDESIGN of the Corolla, one of the models they depend on most for sales, and completely cheap, outdated, and non-competitive in its class currently??

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    "completely cheap, outdated, and non-competitive in its class currently".

    Well, I remember reading somewhere that only one car in it's class beats it in mpg (not bad for a 4 year old model). As much as people complain about it, they still sell tons of them, and very reliable. The 2010 I drove was quieter than the Civic, comfortable, and about what I would expect interior-wise in this class. Safety - very high, considering a 4 year-old model.

    My opinion, the Corolla is still pretty competitive, considering this generation is now in its 4th year.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they got lucky.

    Honda blinked. The new Civic is simply not as good as the old one. In fact, they've been cutting costs for a while now. Remember it had double-wishbones at all 4 corners? It ain't what it used to be.

    The Sentra is just as old as the Corolla, and the latter was freshened more recently. Focus and Cruze have both had reliability issues that buyers of the Corolla will care about even if people here don't.

    Elantra is the biggest threat in that class. Spy pics of the coupe just came out so even more so now. That and the upcoming Dart, if the Fiat/Chrysler joint venture works well.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I had one for a rental when the wife and I were in Wine Country last fall. It was the first of the current generation that I had driven (Usually I get Sentras and Mitsu Lancers) and compared to the usuals it wasn't too bad IMO. It was zippy and the handling was acceptable through the winding hills. It also held it's own just fine on the highways.

    Woud I buy one? No. Would I choose it over the alternatives? Yes. But I still favor the Civic. The Elantra would probably be at the top as well.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    I meant Lexus was starting to take things seriously. The Corolla is a bland box unappealing to people who can fog a mirror, but I don't see it as really worse than the competition. I'd probably look very strongly at the value of the Hyundai if I was shopping at that level, but with the Corolla you are promised reliability and insane resale value, so it might be a wash. You'll always find a customer for a decent used Corolla...around here the new residents seem to love them - guess it's an upmarket car back home, it has to be easy being a Toyota dealer in the eastside suburbs of Seattle.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I don't kmow about the current gen Corolla, but the previous gen one is like a CRV - you just don't seem to find a lot of them on dealer lots because I think they tend to trade within friends and family a lot.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    My brother has one, in Brazil. I'm sure he'll give it to his mother-in-law when he's ready to trade it in.

    They're anonymous but competent. We took it on road trips on the NE coast of Brazil and they're quiet and comfortable, good to pass the miles, not exciting to drive but not its mission anyway.

    It's nicer than the Focus he had before it, mostly quieter, better ride. I was a passenger, not driving, to be fair. His Corolla is much nicer than the Lancer I rented in Puerto Rico, too.

    I'm sure the next one will be conservatively redesigned. Honda took risks and it bit them back. Toyota will tread carefully here. Scion takes risks, so the Corolla doesn't have to.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    One of my kids almost bought a Focus, but then got a Corolla instead. It was T-boned with only maybe 2K on the odometer. Got most of what was paid back from insurance. The body shop said it would be totaled because those parts were worth a fortune and he thought the insurance company would actually make a profit on this one despite the generous payoff. He also said had the Focus been bought the payoff would have likely been a lot less generous.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    That's how it was with my mother who had an 07 Corolla. Got rear ended, they totaled it easily as I am pretty sure the parts would be useful. Her settlement was what was paid for the car a few months before, and at my urging bought a Camry instead (she just had to have a Toyota) as it seemed much more substantial and was not a lot more expensive.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Hloy smokes!

    Gery's quoting the Huffington Post! I guess the apocalypse really is here.... :P
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,159
    edited January 2012
    Might want to read more closely the Huff Post article detailing things about this pedal problem. It's from 22. Jan 2012

    "The debate over tin whiskers, largely out of the public eye -- among scientists and car safety advocates -- is the latest thread of concern stemming from the high-profile safety concerns that began dogging Toyota vehicles three years ago. ...

    "But the details of the report reveal that NASA and NHTSA based their conclusions on a tiny sample of evidence. The analysis looked at just three gas pedals. Two of the pedals came from drivers who complained their cars lunged forward when they pressed on the gas pedal. The third came from a car in a junkyard. Despite the fact that all three pedals were passed around -- one was shipped via FedEx across country, and no one knows how the car in the junkyard was handled -- the fragile, thin tin whiskers stayed intact. NASA found tin whiskers in all three pedals.

    "Some experts at NASA -- the agency NHTSA relies on as basis for its contentions -- have offered a more complex depiction of the potential problems of tin whiskers, one that appears to undermine the central notion that the fibers of metal are not a problem.

    "The release of the NASA report last year prompted a letter to NHTSA from Gordon Davy, a retired materials engineer from Northrup Grumman who had previously inspected failed relay switch boxes from E3 radar planes and discovered they were covered in tin whiskers. He urged NHTSA to reconsider its reassurances about the sanctity of Toyota's electronic systems, arguing that the agency's findings were not supported by the available facts: The mere presence of tin whiskers makes accidents a real threat, even as accidents are rare."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those pedals came sealed from the supplier (CTS), something the link I shared mentions. They took painstaking care to open them up without damaging them.

    Not sure how a Toyota inspection could have caught that, can an X-ray find a tin whisker 1/100th to 1/10th the thickness of a human hair? I doubt it.

    Remember that after the CTS pedals were replaced, complaints to NHTSA plunged, so your theory of it being software or the ECU just got shot down.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Despite the fact that all three pedals were passed around -- one was shipped via FedEx across country

    This is why I use the engineering paper as a source and not the media.

    These pedals were mounted to cars and driven around for years and thousands of miles.

    How would being shipped by FedEx damage a sealed-up pedal assembly? :confuse:
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