Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The only Audis I like looked like the current VW styling. Which I consider some of the best in the industry.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For folding hard tops, I don't like when you can see the trunk seams from the profile. The opening has to be wide, though, to accomodate the top.

    Darker colors mask this, at least. Lighter colors accentuate the seams more, though.

    At least my MX-5 is a dark blue. I still think it looks dorky with top up. Top down no complaints.

    Not that I bought it for looks. The Solistice was prettier, but it's hard to remove 400 lbs of extra weight, and the top mechanism was just goofy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Yes, a light colored car with a folding top can look bad.

    A smooth operation is also important. I remember seeing an XLR that also looked very inelegant in operation, like a transformer or something.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I test drove one at, ironically, a Taste of Lexus event. It really didn't do much for me. Doesn't drive as well as the sportier models, not nearly as luxurious inside as the Lexus SC.

    I get the open cars have to be durable, but then just get a Corvette roadster. XLR was not luxurious at all.

    Caddy started getting the interiors right with the CTS' double-stitched leather dash option.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    The XLR was another swing and a miss at the SL, GM's second at bat. We will see if Toyolex comes back up to plate. The XLR was old GM inside, I remember Clarkson driving one and just ripping into the materials and tactile feel.

    If an RX is a Faberge egg on wheels, the SC was a designer handbag on wheels :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought the original SC 400/300 was very nice. They went down hill from there into oblivion. Too many better choices, left the SC in the dust.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    The pretty original SC and the football shaped 2002+ boulevardier are related in name only - the latter being not so hot in any way.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A guy down the street has an early SC in a pearl white. It is still a great looking car. I wish my wife's was the SC. I would never consider unloading it. It has the chance of becoming a classic. Probably the only one for Lexus.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    They do look good today. There are lots of them in my area. In fact, I saw a local dealer has a "low miles" final year (2000) car on the lot, wouldn't be a bad thing to own. The I6 manual model could become a special interest car in another decade or so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll admit I didn't like the original SC when they came out, but it definitely aged well, and you could actually get a manual with the SC300.

    I never liked the hard top one. Useless back seat, too heavy, too expensive. It was a half-hearted effort, too big to compete with the 2 seater roadsters, not focused enough to compete with prestige 2 seaters.

    GM ate a big loss when they guaranteed their roadsters would hold their value as well as the SL, losing $10,000 in single transactions.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    The original SC is a Lexus product I would actually want to own - see, I am not completely close-minded :shades: I remember the first time I saw one, it seemed ultra modern at the time - held up well for 20 years old, just like an old MB.

    I've read the SC cabrio can get rattly or creaky, too. XLR was just a wrong way attempt - the V was barely faster than a normal SL, but just as expensive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota really needed this one - a thumbs up from CR:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine-february-2012/best-- family-sedans.html

    Recently the new Sienna and 4Runner earned lower scores than their predecessors. They were also critical of the Civic, a Honda but the former segment benchmark, so this new Camry was under the microscope.

    The 4 banger got 27mpg but when a V6 gets just 1 mpg less and makes a whole bunch more power why not upgrade to that? The hybrid beat the Passat TDI by 1 mpg overall, too.

    A much needed win for Toyota.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Are those mileage figures from CR's own tests. They claim 51 MPG highway for the Passat TDI. That is 8 MPG more than the EPA claims. The Camry Hybrid would probably outdo the Passat TDI in mostly city driving.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Agree 100%. TDI would be the better trip car, TCH the better city car.

    Heck, though, at 26mpg the V6 is plenty efficient enough for most folks' standards. I would not give up all that power for 1 measly mpg (v6 vs. base non-hybrid).

    You get diminishing returns when the conventional engines are efficient, basically.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We should start seeing sales totals for December and for 2011 soon.

    BMW had an aggressive lease in December - a 3 series for $299. Infiniti matched it. Lexus did not - theirs was $329 around here. Benz also did not, theirs was $339.

    So look for BMW to win big in December and take the crown for 2011 by a wide margin.

    I wonder how Toyota did, though, given they claimed (yeah, right) that production was back up to capacity.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Lexus made the list of the 12 most Disliked cars of 2011. The HS 250h came in 5th from the bottom. Honda and Nissan had the most on the list. Including the whole Infinity lineup. Has Japanese luxury cars run their course?

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/autos/1112/gallery.most-disliked-cars.fortun- e/5.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I don't know anyone who has bought a HS - I see a few privately owned examples on the road, but most I saw were loaners from the Lexus dealer. Even the supposed luxo underdog who can do no wrong in this bland market can strike out now and then.

    Infiniti seems to be in an odd position, kind of a Japanese Audi.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This sentence summarizes how much CNN knows about cars:

    Developing a Lexus version of the popular Toyota Prius

    The HS has the previous Camry hybrid powertrain in a slightly smaller car from europe, not at all related to the Prius.

    CT is a hatch and is cheaper, plus it actually does use the Prius drivetrain so it's a lot more efficient. As soon as that came out, the HS was essentially dead.

    The new Camry hybrid improved its city MPG rating by a whopping 10mpg, so that was another nail-in-the-coffin for the HS.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fiat 500 is being called a flop, yet sales are close to Mini Cooper levels and that's a cult hit. They goofed when they asked for Fiat-only dealers, IMHO.

    Infiniti has the JX coming, that should boost SUV sales a lot since it's got 3 rows and it priced lower than the FX.

    The G25 is leasing for $299 a month so watch December sales spike...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I wonder how many of those 500 sales are fleet, seeing as the Enterprise-Alamo-National fleet is loaded with them now.

    I also wonder of a G25 lease at that price is actually being dumped on the market. Only some creative accounting will be able to make that balance out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll rent an Abarth if they offer manuals...

    Locally BMW is leasing 3 series (yes, three) for $299 as well. Watch December sales rocket up.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Manual rental in the US market? Are we in 1952? :shades:

    What's the initial payment on that lease, and how stripped is the car? 3er isn't getting any younger...probably be some blowouts when the new one hits. I remember $279 C-class leases at the end of the W203.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm dreaming, I know. Or hallucinating. :D

    BMW ad was on WTOP radio here, the #1 radio station in the DC area, so huge marketing/ad budget.

    From the BMW prices paid thread...

    BMW offers of 328 Xs at $329(3554.00 cash down) and 335Xs at $429 (4154 cash down) really are tempting

    So figure a RWD 3 series at $299 with a similar amount down.

    Not a lot of profit in that deal. I'm sure they up-sell you to a 335ix or something.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    BMW is very profitable overall - they can subsidize a blowout of unsold models, I guess.

    A base automatic 328 is a pretty boring car, all in all. I wonder if there's any profit in those G25 deals as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The G25 was a bad idea - like Acura's race to the bottom. :sick:

    I'm sure they just wanted a lower entry price.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Maybe they are being given away in leases because they didn't sell regularly. I don't know if I have ever seen (or noticed) one in traffic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same here, and I've seen a billion G37 models of all kinds, X, S, you name it. In fact at least two friends/neighbors own them.

    Know what's funny? The passenger heated seat only heats the seat bottom, not the back! Even our Forester heats the back on both seats.

    Sneaky cost-cutting.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Basically flat:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/prnewswire/press_releases/California/201- - 2/01/04/LA29779

    Camry, Yaris, Avalon and Sienna seemed to do well.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter is looking for midsize or small car owners who switched from Honda or Toyota to Chrysler, Ford or GM. Email pr@edmunds.com by Friday, January 6, 2011 with a few words about your car choice and your experience so far.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    For full year 2011, the auto makers who gained most in market share are:

    Chrysler, +1.4
    Kia, +0.7
    GM, +0.5
    Hyundai, +0.4
    VW, +0.3
    Nissan, +0.3
    Ford, +0.1

    The biggest losers are:

    Toyota, -2.3
    Honda, -1.6
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    Here are the luxury brands with the most market share gains:

    Volvo, +2.7
    M-B, +1.2
    BMW, +0.6
    Buick, +0.6
    Audi, +0.5

    And the brands which lost most:

    Lexus, -3.0
    Acura, -1.3
    Infiniti, -0.8
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You didn't get the memo? There was a giant tsunami in Japan in April....

    Looking objectively, Toyota was up from January to March, and up again in November and December.

    So there was basically a temporary drop for 6-7 months, and they appear to have recovered.

    Also, you care so much about Malibu vs. Camry, so let's paint the whole picture, shall we?

    Camry was the best selling car by a WIDE margin, Malibu was not even in the top 10.

    Corollas was the best selling small car. It even beat the Accord.

    Sienna was the best selling minivan.

    All that despite two devastating natural disasters. :sick:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2012
    I think the real picture is this, 6 or the top 10 selling vehicles last year were PU Trucks and SUVs. Three of the top four were full sized PU trucks. Which tells me two things. People are getting used to high gas prices and just bite the bullet on gas rather than live with a vehicle they really do not want. And larger vehicles are getting slightly better mileage.

    PS
    Accord did not make the top ten in 2011. Altima seems to have taken over 2nd best selling car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Chevrolet Malibu is the new best selling car in May; No. 3 overall.

    Toyota Camry slipped to No. 12 overall.


    Found your original post. Time to admit how meaningless one month can be...

    For the full year:

    Camry: 308,510
    Malibu: 204,808

    More than 100k behind, how humiliating. :sick:

    It was hard to even find Malibu totals because it's not in the top 10 overall and GM's press release did not mention the Malibu individually because it lost so badly:

    http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/u- s/en/2012/Jan/gmsales

    PS Jaguar was down 8% for the year.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    6 or the top 10 selling vehicles last year were PU Trucks and SUVs

    Good point.

    Though I think crude oil is still relatively cheap. This helps the D3 big time, in fact they depend very heavily on pickup sales.

    Right now oil hovers around $100 a barrel. Remember that in 2008, pre-recession, it hit $145. I really don't think it will get significantly cheaper, we're much more likely to see it go up again.

    Prius still managed to grow 9% for the year.

    CT is selling at double the rate of the HS a year ago, which I think they should discontinue. It's old TCH tech anyway.

    So look at it this way - hybrids did well when oil is about as cheap as it will ever get (IMHO). Things can only get better for hybrids, as oil goes up.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Found your original post. Time to admit how meaningless one month can be...

    My gut instinct says might have to wait a month. Seems this poster only makes monthly visits and then goes on hiatus till the next month sales data comes out. Of course, there is a bit of Cherry picking as well :sick:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Prius lost 3.5% over 2010. It did gain 8.7% in December 2011. So 2012 is likely to be a lot better than 2011. As far as Lexus they sold more SUVs than they did cars last year. I think the Camry sales for December were lukewarm for a new model. Plenty of inventory in San Diego.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    2012 will be better - they will actually have decent supply.

    Keep in mind the Camry lease cost $30-40 per month more than competitors, at least in my region.

    Camry still did fine:

    Camry 33,506
    Altima 25,976
    Fusion 21,622
    Accord 17,667
    Sonata 17,340

    Accord got absolutely crushed, though.

    Also, only 4 cars sold over 200k for the year non-fleet:

    Accord, Sonata, Camry, and Civic.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't understand the Accord numbers. The Accord Prices Paid discussion is really active right now.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    edited January 2012
    Found your original post. Time to admit how meaningless one month can be...

    I have no problem to say Camry beat Malibu in 2011, because that's the fact.

    It's also time for you to admit that how meaningless one model can be...

    GM lost some battles but won the war last year against Toyota. That's the fact.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Could be that people smell blood and are looking for a bargain.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    Or pent up demand? I can't remember ever seeing any pricing discussion making the top 5 list in the Most Popular in Forums widget on the sidebar before.

    Toyota stock is up about $8 since the year low of around $60 back in December. It was $90 back in February. Still has a ways to go, but the last week has been a good run-up.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Toyota lost to Mother Nature, not to GM.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited January 2012
    XLU, glad to see you're back before your monthly visit which was what another poster predicted! Keep reporting about GM for us.

    >"My gut instinct says might have to wait a month. Seems this poster only makes monthly visits and then goes on hiatus till the next month sales data comes out."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think from a company standpoint, World sales is much more important now, that the USA is not the major market place. I think Ford is coming up with some World Class vehicles which won't even be offered in the USA. They are looking toward an 8 million per year sales number. Which will put them up with Toyota, GM and VW.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    edited January 2012
    I think from a company standpoint, World sales is much more important now, that the USA is not the major market place

    Agreed with your first point; the world wide sales numbers will come out towards the end of this month. Based on previous published data, GM should be No. 1, VW No. 2, and Toyota No. 3 which would lag behind GM by well over 1 million cars.

    US is not the biggest auto market in volume anymore (yet we are still close No. 2). But US market is vastly more profitable than the Chinese. So I'd say it's still a major market place.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm kinda bummed they haven't brought the C Max. What happened?

    None of the current minivans out there appeal to me as much as they used to, blame cost cutting or uglification. Where's the lighter options from Europe? Mazda5 is the only game in town, and it's too small.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Toyota No. 3 which would lag behind

    Yes, but WHY?

    The Tsunami and the floods in Thailand.

    GM beat a handicapped Toyota.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not sure about the C-Max. I know Ford is out to capture a big share of the India market with the new EcoSport. My biggest gripe with Ford is not bringing the T6 Ranger diesel to our 3rd World country.

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They sell the old EcoSport in Brazil, so I've seen a bunch of them. I predict that new one will be a hit. It makes the old one seem, well, old.

    At one point the EcoSport was the best-selling non-car in Brazil. It still may be.

    I think it's Fiesta-based, and new Fiesta is nicely improved. Hope Ford stuffs in a heavier duty trans so it doesn't have the issues the Fiesta has had.
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