Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A lot of those Escapes are fleet sales, though.

    The new one should change that, hopefully. It looks nice, but I think they should consider keeping the old one for fleet only, just to avoid dumping the new model in to fleets.

    Toyota had a good month - up 7%, same as GM.

    Camry, Prius V, and Yaris sales will pick up more as they ramp up to full speed production and get decent inventory, especially the V.

    To be honest I'm surprised the sales slump ended so quickly, what was it, 6 months or so, starting when the tsunami hit. That's a quicker recovery than I expected.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Neat concept - and I do think we'll see a through-the-road AWD system like that, possibly for Subaru, though. Acura showed something similar.

    The BRZ is rumored to start around $24k. Look for ADMs. :sick:

    Wonder how Scion will price theirs? They have that no-haggle policy, supposedly, so it'll be interesting to see how they handle demand at first. I predict it will sell at or above MSRP for the first half year or so, if they price it aggressively like that.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I'm OK with the new Escape and I'm sure it will be a very successful but I'm thinking the truck-like quality and abilities may be a good part of the charm associated with the first gen.

    This time around it seems more of a "Me too" than the original effort.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interest was high after the show.

    The old one was a classic design, I guess, but long in the tooth. My brother test drove one early this year and it has that issue where your head tosses back and forth due to the poor ride quality.

    To be honest we both put it at the very bottom of our lists. I think it sells due to the $15,999 clearance prices.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited December 2011
    I apologize, I'm kinda ducking in and out here at work but I should have clarified in my original post... I am putting an emphasis on the looks and truck like image that goes with the first gen.

    This one seems more of a "me too" effort in the sense that it copies the Kia Sportage/Honda CR-V looks while the first one was brawnier, more original.

    Not saying that this one will bomb tho, I think it will be very successful, and like you mentioned the rough "truckish" edges (and dismal fuel economy with the old Duratec) are probably gone with the new one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Put in an EcoBoost and it's a poor man's Range Rover Evoque.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    New Plant in Mississippi

    Lexus: Made in America?

    And lastly, Camry is getting exported from the US to S. Korea starting in january.

    link title
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was hoping they'd build Camrys so that Subaru could take the 2nd line back from them at SIA.

    As for Lexus Made in the USA, why not, since the USA buys them most? Common sense if you ask me.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well the RX is already made in Canada IIRC. Move ES production to Georgetown or Lafayette and that'll cover 90% of the sales.

    So this new plant in MS will replace Fremont/NUMMI and supplant Ontario production.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    And seeing as all Camrys we get are going to be built here anyway, why not. Definitely some kind of efficiency gain to be had.

    I don't know if LS or other highline production could move over though, although the US consumes most of those too.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Suprisingly, the IS sells about 30% fewer units than the ES but production here couldn't be justified here just for the US. If they could somehow make the IS, GS and LS on the same line and then export to Europe and Asia, it might make sense.

    The RX and ES represent about 50% of the brand's sales in the US. Making them here makes so much sense.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    That could be interesting, as ROW has an IS diesel. Maybe if they built them here, we'd be able to have that too.

    I have a suspicion that the LS and maybe even the GS market values the precision implied by the "Made in Japan" status of that car, and it might be a selling point. Just as I can accept a made in USA C Class, but a made in USA S-class maybe not as much.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I have a suspicion that the LS and maybe even the GS market values the precision implied by the "Made in Japan" status of that car, and it might be a selling point.

    Good point. Plus I have no idea what else they build off those platforms in Japan. That market is so fragmented - There may be 6 different models built off the LS.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Any business would be crazy to move to CA. We have the WORST business climate and the best Weather climate outside of Hawaii.

    They would be better off moving to a central state that is interested in welcoming new businesses. Sounds like Japan is suffering from the same things that burden the USA. I have not read much about how well Lexus sells in Japan, since they opened those big fancy dealerships.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree as well. Perhaps its just the notion that a flagship is built under close supervision, near HQ, and would therefore would be (theoretically) subject to higher quality control.

    So no LS in Indiana or S-class built in Alabama in our life times.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More agreement...

    They'd be crazy to set up shop in Cali. Nissan just left CA for TN, and it was one of the best business decisions Ghosn ever made.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think with big plants in TX and MS they would be the place set up a HQ. Mississippi would be logical if the Lexus plant is there.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well if Lexus moves to CA, it'll probably in Torrance where they already have Toyota headquarters. Gary - I know you're pretty down on the business climate in CA but it's still a viable place to do business. Why do so many firms located in NYC even though it's expensive? Because it's a great place to live and work.

    As for Ghosn moving Nissan from CA to TN, that made sense in terms of the fact that they were moved closer to their manufacturing facilities. Saving money was icing on the cake.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am sure Toyota is familiar with high priced real estate in Japan. Yes CA has a lot of advantages. I think the great weather is becoming less of an incentive. We are controlled by the same kind of tax and spend politicians that have drove the Federal Government to the brink of disaster. Who would want to locate where taxes have to go up to survive? If I could sell without taking a loss, I would move to Hawaii. Best place to live a laid back lifestyle at a reasonable cost. And they do not tax pension incomes.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    TX would work - they already did some big debuts at the Texas State Fair, though mostly Toyotas.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I don't see Lexus situating itself down in San Antonio unless they plan on making the Lexus Kobe Ranch version of the Tundra.

    One other thing to keep in mind is travel for the executives. LAX to Tokyo is a non-stop direct flight. I doubt one can fly direct from San Antonio.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They may not get the friendliest reception down there, either. Cali is import-friendly. Texas is pickup country.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2011
    I don't know. There are a lot of Mercedes running around in TX. Their other car is a truck. Maybe what Lexus needs to regain the lead in luxury. TX is a lot healthier market than CA. Everyone out here is buying stinking Prius.

    Which by the way I parked next to a black Prius wagon looking thing without plates, brand new at our little grocery store. Is that the V model? I did not think they were out till next year?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Is that the V model? I did not think they were out till next year?

    It's already out. IMHO, it's a great wagon for city dwellers.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Must be selling as they unload them. I don't show any in my area.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, I saw one yesterday at the grocery store. Looks great. Maybe the next vehicle for the Mrs - though that will probably be 8 years down the road....

    The one I saw was white which is not a good color to me but it still looked great for something with that kind of mileage.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,794
    My sister just sent me pictures of hers, and it's white.
    I'll tell her she has a potential buyer in 8 years. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am lazy about washing my cars so white or a light color is best for me. Black is the last color I would consider. I have never owned a black car. A couple of dark blues is about it.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I've done silver a couple of times - all time champ at not showing dirt.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The gold sand color on my Sequoia is pretty good as well. The Lexus is silver and is easy to keep looking good after 22 years.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Everyone out here is buying stinking Prius

    They're PZEVs. They don't stink. ;)

    You saw the V, then. I think they're off to a strong start:

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/toyota-reports-november-2011-sales-13484- 2183.html

    I'm not sure, but it looks like they're bunching Prius and Prius V sales together? Even so, they were up a whopping 49%, and amazing start.

    I was worried the V would cannibalize the regular Prius, clearly that is not the case. I would have guessed 20-30% or so. Let's see if they can sustain that sort of growth, it'll be hard.

    Hasn't hurt the Lexus CT, either. The CT outsells every Scion, wow.

    New Yaris also off to a very fantastic start, up 160%. I think it's the new interior, which no longer uses that hideous center mounted gauge pod.

    New Camry was up 13%, on a high volume car that's good news.

    New GS can't arrive soon enough. They may as well phase out the HS now that the CT is a hit.

    Good news for the USA - North American Sienna, Camry, and Corolla production were all up for the month, and all 3 lead their class in sales YTD.

    No major surprises, the new models are doing great, the old models are falling off. Lexus needs to hurry the GS and soon after that the IS.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2011
    Must be selling as they unload them. I don't show any in my area.

    In that case, it's clear:

    Demand > Supply

    Edit: searching locally, a local big dealership has 73 Prius but only 9 Vs. Could be that they're all selling as soon as they hit the ground.

    I wish they broke it down by model.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Prius is stinking on the premise they are an ugly blight on the landscape. :shades:

    I have tried to like the looks. Just no way it appeals to me. Maybe the V will grow on me. Just so tinker toy looking or worse a kids Transformer look. Poor visibility killed them from the beginning. I like to see out and around me. The Ford Flex is my idea of a perfectly designed vehicle. Just needs a diesel engine and it would be perfect. :blush:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Why? They use little gas, keep demand (and therefore prices) down.

    You can see right through them with that little window. Hey, I'm in a low roadster, so I notice things like that.

    What car is as easy to pass? Small, slow, and transparent. Shouldn't bother anyone.

    I'm not even sure what you mean about poor visibility?

    ***

    From the article:

    "the new Prius v was the fastest turning car in our lineup"

    Looks like they may have to adjust production, build more Vs.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A lot of the Asian vehicles go in for that Stink Bug look. Which makes looking out the sides difficult. I use my mirrors, just never fully trust them. Cars with blind spots get dropped from my list quickly. I like being up where I can see all around me. Especially way down the road. The standard Prius is especially bad. The V looks somewhat better for visibility.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/08/car-plows-through-restaurant-after-driver-con- fuses-pedals/

    I love how the immediate conclusion is that the driver hit the wrong pedal when it's anything but a Toyota.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2011
    I'm not real wild about the looks either. But I do like the way the mpg reading looks. :shades:

    My V will look a lot better with a canoe on top (although I may have to switch to inflatable kayaks that I can put inside, out of the slipstream). Hypermiling may wind up being a more fun hobby anyway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Shhh...don't bash styling from certain regions
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's right, we Yoopers have thin skins. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prius aren't styled at all.

    Their form is pretty much determined by wind tunnels. Pure function.

    Heck, nowadays even supercars are. The days where a designer had the freedom to use their pen freely are long gone.

    That's they the Veyron and Enzo and Huayra are so hideous.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    lol, I thought the same thing!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    I'd say at the very least the upkick at the end of the greenhouse is styling - it is a Toyolex trait now. Pure function? Bah
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So you're an aerodynamics expert all of the sudden?

    The kick up at the rear is for aerodynamic purposes, a lot of cars with spoilers produce a lower coefficient of drag.

    Example image:

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    edited December 2011
    Kick up in the greenhouse, not a spoiler. The Toyolex window line - we'll add a little kink at the end to try to add character, as the pokemon look can only go so far. Maybe Camrollas are the only ones without it.

    What speeds are needed for those aerodynamic ideas to have anything more than a negligible effect? Probably more than the average Prius will ever see...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prius' green house goes all the way back and incorporates a spoiler. There's even glass behind it, underneath.

    You're talking about the C-pillar, though, that's different. I think without that it would look blander.

    Audi put one on the A7. Imitation the sincerest form of flattery? :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Well, it would look more straightforward...the upkick doesn't banish bland. I guess I should have said beltline. Whatever, it is faux character.

    I sincerely doubt the A7 was trying to imitate a non-car. It's actually even dorkier there, as Audi has a couple decades of a certain window line, and mixed it up with that little blip.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I sincerely doubt the A7 was trying to imitate a non-car. It's actually even dorkier there, as Audi has a couple decades of a certain window line, and mixed it up with that little blip.

    I actually think Audi's styling has gone downhill in the past 5 years. Eyeliner on the headlights anyone? :surprise: I find the Q7 to be particularly ugly.

    Toyota -- well almost any direction is an improvement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2011
    it is faux character

    The new C250 coupe has the upkick in the C-pillar, too, FWIW.

    I'm sure it's fine on the Benz because the Mercedes has soul and character and is teutonic.

    On the Prius it's faux character, totally different there. :P

    Somehow that is not a double standard.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Eyeliner on the headlights anyone?

    Look inside new Audi headlights and you will find an entire Hyundai's worth of "styling". Seriously, all the unnecessary swoops and curves, all within the fluidic sculpture light clusters themselves.

    fin will say the IS' LEDs copied Audi, but not really, they just put a subtle, straight line under the lights. There's nothing subtle about Audi's.

    Audi puts all kinds of triangles and trapezoids, and even made a commercial to imply they look like Christmas ornaments.

    You can't make this stuff up!
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