Oh yeah, I remember PT mania was so bad, Canadian dealers were shipping their cars south to take advantage of the strong US dollar, loaded ones were going well past 25K, in year 2000 dollars. Insane.
My impression is that a similarly equipped a '12 is a couple of hundred more on the sticker which isn't bad. The dealers around here are jacking up their ad prices though by a grand. Can't blame the dealer if people are stupid! I think people will be sorry paying that initially in about 6 months. The Camry isn't a bad car, but it really needed more changes - particularly more room. If you're a six footer you can't really go for a XLE because the sunroof still takes away too much headroom and the outside just seems kind of same old, same old to me. I'll probably look around more when its time to trade my 09 because I think there is a lot of nice stuff coming down the pipeline in the next year or so.
Did they actually drive a V? it has current features, but it's horrible to drive. It's somewhat better with no cargo/passengers, but that kind of defeats the purpose.
Have you driven one at the limit?
CR took theirs to their slalom manuever and it did shockingly well. Quicker than the X3, Evoque, Passat (2 models), Jetta GLI, Civic Si, A6, E350, M35, 9-5, even the Cooper Countryman.
Thing is, it's a tall hybrid, it's not supposed to beat cars like that. It humiliated them.
I could list 5 sources and you wouldn't care, let's be honest... :P
What does the Prius V compete with?
Closest thing I can think of is the Ford Escape hybrid. Not exactly known for its handling, or ride for that matter.
I test drove a V6 model and the ride tosses your head side-to-side, it was downright annoying. The wheels crash over bumps, too. And it's not like hard, low rolling resistance tires on hybrids are going to improve things.
Prius V is not nearly as bad as people think:
The pseudo hybrid minivan rides better than a Prius, too. Since Toyota expects Prius v customers to come from crossovers and SUVs, making it not feel like a small hatchback was a key goal. Pitch and Bounce Control is the hallmark feature that uses the electric motor's torque output to alter load transfer longitudinally in order to keep the ride as flat as possible on uneven road surfaces. The suspension was then tuned to keep the drive nice and tidy.
You didn't look (naturally, no surprise) but the Motor Trend figure 8 and skip pad numbers were respectable, too.
For that size I think I'd go with a Mazda5 since it offers a manual trans, and because Ford is denying us its small Focus-based wagons, for now at least.
You must not have a family to haul around, but those of us who do get it - some times you drive something you have to drive. My roadster doesn't exactly meet all my needs.
Prius V is fairly big and roomy. It would easily accommodate a family of 4 and a large dog, plus a week's worth of luggage, and get 41mpg on cheap regular gas on the way.
It's not a sport car, but it's not a pig, either. It actually zips around well for a tall hybrid, better than many small crossovers it targets in advertising.
Luckily nobody out there can give me permission to drive what I want :P ....but I grew up in a family and we always had normal sedans for family use.
Comparing a tall wagon to an AWD vehicle might not be completely apples to oranges. But I am not doubting the V will sell, as they sell every normal one they can.
All that needs is to ditch the hybrid entirely, build an Si model with the Civic Si's engine.
Sedans? You had it good. We had a 72 (?) Buick Electra coupe. And a Vega coupe. Later a Z28. Dad was nuts. The trunk of that Buick was roughly the size of Deleware, though.
Comparing a tall wagon to an AWD vehicle...
You can get a FWD Escape hybrid. It's not like they're going off road, right?
Some rough data from the EPA web site:
Loaded Prius V: $29,990, plus $1229 annual fuel cost Loaded Passat TDI: $32,950, plus $1699 Loaded Jetta wagon TDI: $28,940, plus $1750 Loaded Escape hybrid FWD: $33,080, plus $1613
So the Jetta is a little cheaper up front, but the Prius V breaks even after 2 years.
The Escape makes little sense to anyone, just get the nicer Passat.
The 'V is easy to justify from a cost stand point.
Nobody knows what Honacura is thinking lately. CRZ had potential on paper.
Either my mom or dad or both had a 4 door car. When I was very little my mom had a Thunderbird the size of that Buick - but it was big enough for little kids. My dad once had a S-10 Blazer, but my mom had a normal 4 door. People with kids are too high maintenance today. My dad never owned a 4 door SUV or minivan until I was a teenager.
I think AWD vehicles will almost by definition have different suspension needs no matter the power generation. Passat nowadays is the dumbed down American spec model probably no more fun to drive than a Camry. Jetta might be nicer to drive, and you don't have the Prius stigma. Personal preference I guess.
Loaded Prius V: $29,990, plus $1229 annual fuel cost Loaded Passat TDI: $32,950, plus $1699 Loaded Jetta wagon TDI: $28,940, plus $1750 Loaded Escape hybrid FWD: $33,080, plus $1613
You had the REAL competition named earlier: the Mazda5. Fully loaded at $25K, a $5K savings vs your little group here. And with a moonroof at that price, which the Prius doesn't offer does it?
Of course, the only one of the three that you can get a manual with in the fully loaded model is the Jetta Wagon TDI, right? Or can you?
The Mazda5 makes about 25 mpg combined, and is about $5000 cheaper. It would need 225 extra gallons of gas per year for 15K miles of driving (the Prius V makes 40 mpg or so), so at $5/gallon, you would not begin to see the savings from the hybrid until the 4.5-year mark, eh?! ;-)
Of course, the Mazda5 is faster, holds a lot more, and seats six, not five. So there's some extra utility there, might be worth a few bucks to the right buyer......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Of course, the Mazda5 is faster, holds a lot more, and seats six, not five. So there's some extra utility there, might be worth a few bucks to the right buyer......
We have a Mazda 5 and it's been a lot of fun. It's really a blast to drive and has much better steering than my Acura TL. Love the visibility, tight turning circle, and sliding doors. My only complaints about the 5 are the somewhat chintzy interior and the fact that it eats tires. I actually don't need tons of power, but I do like really good steering, which it has. I also don't like the new redesign, but ours is an '07 and we have 75K on it. So far, pretty much nothing has gone wrong with it.
Mazda deleted the Navi option from the Mazda5, I don't get why. The market is headed in the other direction. On top of that, they don't offer AWD or power sliding doors, while the JDM model has both.
Still, I'd pick that with a manual and fabricate a bracket to build-in a Nav system like I did with my minivan. :shades:
"Toyota Motor Corp. will shift production of its Highlander hybrid sport-utility vehicle from Japan to Indiana, where the Japanese automaker will invest $400 million to expand its factory and add 400 new jobs.
Toyota now makes the Highlander and Sequoia SUVs and the Sienna minivan in Princeton, Indiana, where the company now employs nearly 4,000 workers. Toyota plans to export some of those Highlanders to other countries."
Have I driven one at the 'Limit'? No of course not. I drove it like a normal person would drive a car. It had a lot of road and wind noise. It reminded me a lot of our '04 Escape. Like now, not when it was new. With 5 people plus luggage on the highway, the engine/cvt acted and sounded like it was being tortured. I did not notice any handling issues and no reason to expect any. I only drove it unloaded.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Depreciation is sometimes related to complexity, and IMO some of those cars are more complex than Lexus, especially when the end user is basically beta-testing the gadgetry. A Miata is sweetly simple, even with the hardtop.
On popular mass market makes, depreciation isn't such a big deal - but some think used is the only way to go for anything. If I could buy a brand new example for 5K more than a 4 year old one with say 30K miles on it, I'd do it.
"The agency said it had received six consumer complaints as well as several reports from Toyota about fires in the driver’s door. Investigators said the condition appeared to be caused by a malfunction of the master switch that controls the power windows.
"One owner told the agency that a burning odor, and then flames, came from the door. “The police and fire department were notified and no injuries were reported. The vehicle was destroyed,” the owner wrote."
The probe could affect as many as 830,000 vehicles, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Friday in documents posted on its website. The vehicles have not been recalled.
True, but 100% of them. For Toyota it's 6 out of 830,000.
Nowadays they take photos each step of the way and track batches of parts from suppliers, so I'm sure they will narrow it down. We should soon see a recall for that smaller number of vehicles.
I think Lincoln has a tough road because the luxury class, particularly near lux, is getting pretty darn overloaded with product. We were looking at GM CUV's the other day. I was astonished that the Acadia and Enclave on the lots were heading toward $50K and seemed almost $10K higher than a leather equipped Traverse. They were nicer, but I'm not sure about 10 fat ones nicer. Maybe status isn't all that big of a deal to us. The Explorer's seemed a few grand cheaper than the Chevy, but the Highlander, although it had a little less back storage space, was hugely cheaper than all of them. You could take home a loaded, leather SE for around $32K and the Highlander had a lot of domestic content as well.
If I were shopping in the segment, I would buy the Mazda CX-9 over any of them. Heck, I think the grand touring trim at the Chicago show was $38,500 or so, and that's loaded. Probably being an older model, you can score a grand or so off of that too.
48 grand for the new Explorer or Durango is a bit rich IMO... yikes
Those get discounted heavily as well. A lot of these do. It's a crowded segment.
Highlander should get a re-do soon, right? Camry did, and it's based on that, so it should follow soon. I think they need to re-content it a bit, let the RAV4 sell to the cheapskates, and move the Highlander very slightly upscale, reduce overlap on those 2 models.
The agency has received 12 complaints of smoke or fires in TrailBlazers
Twice as many as for Toyota, so why wasn't GM being investigated from the beginning? Why target the import branded vehicles first, with half as many complaints?
I bet GM knew, but begged them to announce the Toyota problems first. PR Damage Control. Smoke screen. Maybe they gave them extra time to narrow it down to fewer vehicles:
GM believes the condition is restricted to the 2006 and 2007 model years
Yep. That was it.
A NHTSA spokeswoman said the agency is in the process of finding out if GM and Toyota Motor Corp. got switches from the same parts maker, and if any other vehicles had them.
It obviously was announced first for the toyota products because the GM company has received money from the US federal government in subsidy while the toyota company has not received money from the US government. The administration is wanting to protect it's investment in the GM company. :P
Comments
Thing is, those should be $10-12k, not even what they're asking base.
RSHolland and p0926 from Edmunds were also there, we all laughed, pretty much.
I think you have to feel the texture of it...it's so...thick. Like an art school student made a rough carving. Then they cast it out of plastic.
The text on that makes me think it is wood with like a pressed in texture too. What's the point in that?
Remember the PT Cruiser when it came out? Heck, even the NA Miata. I paid 1/3rd the price that the original buyer did and mine only had 26k miles.
75% in 18 months.
Keep in mind they lowered the price.
They're selling like crazy, despite leases being $20-30 or so more than (to be fair) older competitors.
It's somewhat better with no cargo/passengers, but that kind of defeats the purpose.
Have you driven one at the limit?
CR took theirs to their slalom manuever and it did shockingly well. Quicker than the X3, Evoque, Passat (2 models), Jetta GLI, Civic Si, A6, E350, M35, 9-5, even the Cooper Countryman.
Thing is, it's a tall hybrid, it's not supposed to beat cars like that. It humiliated them.
Passat TDI ain't significantly quicker, either.
No matter, the name "Prius" will get you behind someone merging onto a highway at 31mph...
What does the Prius V compete with?
Closest thing I can think of is the Ford Escape hybrid. Not exactly known for its handling, or ride for that matter.
I test drove a V6 model and the ride tosses your head side-to-side, it was downright annoying. The wheels crash over bumps, too. And it's not like hard, low rolling resistance tires on hybrids are going to improve things.
Prius V is not nearly as bad as people think:
The pseudo hybrid minivan rides better than a Prius, too. Since Toyota expects Prius v customers to come from crossovers and SUVs, making it not feel like a small hatchback was a key goal. Pitch and Bounce Control is the hallmark feature that uses the electric motor's torque output to alter load transfer longitudinally in order to keep the ride as flat as possible on uneven road surfaces. The suspension was then tuned to keep the drive nice and tidy.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1106_2012_toyota_prius_v_five_te- st/viewall.html#ixzz1lj1uRDlt
Here's their test of an Escape hybrid and Jeep Liberty diesel (gone, but something that may have been an alternative):
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0503_2005_suv_reviews/overview.html-
0-60 is roughly the same for all 3: slow, but par for its class.
Hybrid haters will hate.
Escape is almost more of a small truck than a tall car.
Beige haters will hate. More material for people who don't like cars, don't like driving, don't like feeling alive in any way.
You didn't look (naturally, no surprise) but the Motor Trend figure 8 and skip pad numbers were respectable, too.
For that size I think I'd go with a Mazda5 since it offers a manual trans, and because Ford is denying us its small Focus-based wagons, for now at least.
Does a manual hybrid exist, or could it?
You must not have a family to haul around, but those of us who do get it - some times you drive something you have to drive. My roadster doesn't exactly meet all my needs.
Prius V is fairly big and roomy. It would easily accommodate a family of 4 and a large dog, plus a week's worth of luggage, and get 41mpg on cheap regular gas on the way.
It's not a sport car, but it's not a pig, either. It actually zips around well for a tall hybrid, better than many small crossovers it targets in advertising.
Luckily nobody out there can give me permission to drive what I want :P ....but I grew up in a family and we always had normal sedans for family use.
Comparing a tall wagon to an AWD vehicle might not be completely apples to oranges. But I am not doubting the V will sell, as they sell every normal one they can.
You win. LOL
All that needs is to ditch the hybrid entirely, build an Si model with the Civic Si's engine.
Sedans? You had it good. We had a 72 (?) Buick Electra coupe. And a Vega coupe. Later a Z28. Dad was nuts. The trunk of that Buick was roughly the size of Deleware, though.
Comparing a tall wagon to an AWD vehicle...
You can get a FWD Escape hybrid. It's not like they're going off road, right?
Some rough data from the EPA web site:
Loaded Prius V: $29,990, plus $1229 annual fuel cost
Loaded Passat TDI: $32,950, plus $1699
Loaded Jetta wagon TDI: $28,940, plus $1750
Loaded Escape hybrid FWD: $33,080, plus $1613
So the Jetta is a little cheaper up front, but the Prius V breaks even after 2 years.
The Escape makes little sense to anyone, just get the nicer Passat.
The 'V is easy to justify from a cost stand point.
Either my mom or dad or both had a 4 door car. When I was very little my mom had a Thunderbird the size of that Buick - but it was big enough for little kids. My dad once had a S-10 Blazer, but my mom had a normal 4 door. People with kids are too high maintenance today. My dad never owned a 4 door SUV or minivan until I was a teenager.
I think AWD vehicles will almost by definition have different suspension needs no matter the power generation. Passat nowadays is the dumbed down American spec model probably no more fun to drive than a Camry. Jetta might be nicer to drive, and you don't have the Prius stigma. Personal preference I guess.
At least I got a window seat. My little brother sat on the hump and to this day he has a complex.
Loaded Passat TDI: $32,950, plus $1699
Loaded Jetta wagon TDI: $28,940, plus $1750
Loaded Escape hybrid FWD: $33,080, plus $1613
You had the REAL competition named earlier: the Mazda5. Fully loaded at $25K, a $5K savings vs your little group here. And with a moonroof at that price, which the Prius doesn't offer does it?
Of course, the only one of the three that you can get a manual with in the fully loaded model is the Jetta Wagon TDI, right? Or can you?
The Mazda5 makes about 25 mpg combined, and is about $5000 cheaper. It would need 225 extra gallons of gas per year for 15K miles of driving (the Prius V makes 40 mpg or so), so at $5/gallon, you would not begin to see the savings from the hybrid until the 4.5-year mark, eh?! ;-)
Of course, the Mazda5 is faster, holds a lot more, and seats six, not five. So there's some extra utility there, might be worth a few bucks to the right buyer......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We have a Mazda 5 and it's been a lot of fun. It's really a blast to drive and has much better steering than my Acura TL. Love the visibility, tight turning circle, and sliding doors. My only complaints about the 5 are the somewhat chintzy interior and the fact that it eats tires. I actually don't need tons of power, but I do like really good steering, which it has. I also don't like the new redesign, but ours is an '07 and we have 75K on it. So far, pretty much nothing has gone wrong with it.
Still, I'd pick that with a manual and fabricate a bracket to build-in a Nav system like I did with my minivan. :shades:
Toyota now makes the Highlander and Sequoia SUVs and the Sienna minivan in Princeton, Indiana, where the company now employs nearly 4,000 workers. Toyota plans to export some of those Highlanders to other countries."
Toyota to move Highlander hybrid output to Indiana from Japan (chicagotribune.com/)
On another note, the stock was ~$65 back in November. It closed over $80 today. It peaked around $134 back in '06 and was ~$94 around a year ago.
No of course not. I drove it like a normal person would drive a car.
It had a lot of road and wind noise.
It reminded me a lot of our '04 Escape.
Like now, not when it was new.
With 5 people plus luggage on the highway, the engine/cvt acted and sounded like it was being tortured.
I did not notice any handling issues and no reason to expect any. I only drove it unloaded.
The hybrid (more comparable) has a less refined 4 banger and I doubt it sounds any less tortured.
Hybrids are optimized for city use anyway.
Seems like fintails 10 Most Hated
RX makes the list, along with the LS and IS-F. Tacoma as well.
It's true, too. I paid $22k for mine 4 years ago and it's still worth around $17k. Resale for the PRHT is absurd, why not just buy new?
Sort of the opposite of large lux cars.
On popular mass market makes, depreciation isn't such a big deal - but some think used is the only way to go for anything. If I could buy a brand new example for 5K more than a 4 year old one with say 30K miles on it, I'd do it.
"The agency said it had received six consumer complaints as well as several reports from Toyota about fires in the driver’s door. Investigators said the condition appeared to be caused by a malfunction of the master switch that controls the power windows.
"One owner told the agency that a burning odor, and then flames, came from the door. “The police and fire department were notified and no injuries were reported. The vehicle was destroyed,” the owner wrote."
http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146694946/u-s-investigates-door-fires-in-toyota-ca- mrys-rav4s
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/11/lincoln-mkz-concept-arrives-smokin-hot-in-det- roit/
Not quite, at least not yet.
The probe could affect as many as 830,000 vehicles, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Friday in documents posted on its website. The vehicles have not been recalled.
Getting a little ahead of yourself? :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm not too crazy about the new MKZ, either way. I guess it's an improvement, but the Fusion it's based on looks better.
Gimme a 2l EcoBoost AWD Fusion. They look fantastic, like an Aston Martin met an Audi, and had this love child.
I notice Lincolns are much more popular in the Michigan area we visit at the Ann Arbor edge of the Greater Detroit sprawl.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
True, but 100% of them. For Toyota it's 6 out of 830,000.
Nowadays they take photos each step of the way and track batches of parts from suppliers, so I'm sure they will narrow it down. We should soon see a recall for that smaller number of vehicles.
Ahhhh. The glass is half full.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think they build-in some rather huge incentives. As in $8-10,000 worth.
48 grand for the new Explorer or Durango is a bit rich IMO... yikes
Highlander should get a re-do soon, right? Camry did, and it's based on that, so it should follow soon. I think they need to re-content it a bit, let the RAV4 sell to the cheapskates, and move the Highlander very slightly upscale, reduce overlap on those 2 models.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46366373/ns/business-autos/t/us-probes-door-fires-tr- ailblazers/#.Tzl6s3rex8E
The agency has received 12 complaints of smoke or fires in TrailBlazers
Twice as many as for Toyota, so why wasn't GM being investigated from the beginning? Why target the import branded vehicles first, with half as many complaints?
I bet GM knew, but begged them to announce the Toyota problems first. PR Damage Control. Smoke screen. Maybe they gave them extra time to narrow it down to fewer vehicles:
GM believes the condition is restricted to the 2006 and 2007 model years
Yep. That was it.
A NHTSA spokeswoman said the agency is in the process of finding out if GM and Toyota Motor Corp. got switches from the same parts maker, and if any other vehicles had them.
You can't make this stuff up...
Does CTS make door switches and parts?
.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,