Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wow, that will really look sharp on that car. When you see how good it looks, you won't be bothered by the cost. Can't wait to see pics of your fintail with the new rubber.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    I know that back in the 70's Volvo went from 15" wheels on the 140 to 14" wheels on the 240 as the 15" wheels were apparently considered less modern than the 14 s. so apparently back then the smaller wheels were more stylish, sort of the opposite of today.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I guess when people go larger they tend to move up into CUV's.

    Just about all our friends over 70 have opted for a CUV, getting rid of their Caddies, Buicks and Lexi. They realize how much easier they are to get in and out of. Something I found to be true 30 years ago. I hate sedans. Three have new CRVs and two have the new Escapes. Just front wheel drive. No offroad needed. Rav4 still using the old worn out 4speed auto. Is Toyota asleep over there? :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    I can believe it. Ease of access is a big issue now, and with a large demographic aging, it will become more important. Also larger profit margins in the CUVs no doubt.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    I think in 1959 when the fintail first hit the market, most cars had 14s with maybe some 15s, but nothing more, so it wasn't a huge gap.

    Here's what the OEM tires looked like, and the look I want (this two tone sunroof car is also rare and gorgeous):

    image
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    Are these 14's or 15's?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Those are 13s - the more rounded hubcap face gives it away. They might look larger than life because the car is nosediving. Here's a normal pic (from an old sales folder):

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    On the Avalon rental topic, I just read that someone got an Avalon from National at DCA with 4 miles on the clock, nicely equipped with leather, roof, and satellite radio. That's a pretty nice rental car.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I bet that's no $29.95/day midsize special though. Rental car companies these days have a funny way of categorizing their "premium car" groups, so that stuff like the "premium" Avalon is $69.95/day with no upgrade promos that can get you there.....I might pay that much for an Acura TL or a Mercedes E-class or something if I were in just the right mood, but there's no way I'm paying that much coin for an Avalon.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Yeah, Avalon is Premium. I think that rental group even shows a pic of the car on the website as the example.

    When I was in ATL in November, I rented an Alamo (you can usually choose from the National lot if you don't like the selection) Premium for 11 days - total pre-tax was $303. So it doesn't have to be very expensive. I'd pay that for a new loaded Avalon and smile as I drove away.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    I guess all those owners haven't believed the importance of the NASA reports on acceleration and on whiskers?

    How do we know CTS won't be liable?

    The assemblies are sealed up, so I'm not sure how QC could have caught that. The tin whiskers are 1/10th to 1/100th the thickness of a human hair, so NASA needed microscopes to find them - *AFTER* they opened them up.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rav4 still using the old worn out 4speed auto. Is Toyota asleep over there?

    Yes they are, half way.

    By that I mean the V6 comes with a 5 speed auto, for a while now.

    The 4 banger gets the 4 speed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nowadays Mid-size means Chevy Cruze.

    Full size will get you a Malibu.

    They've gotten sneaky with categorizations.

    One time I was out in Tucson and they tried to sell me on the idea of a Saturn Ion being a mid-size. Heck no! It was the smallest car Saturn made!

    Ended up with an older Malibu.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Individual agents will likely do that too just to get a car off the lot. That would make an Avalon a limo :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ridiculous.

    I did find it funny that Patrick Bedard was critical of Toyota his whole career at Car & Driver, then retired, and bought a ... Toyota Avalon!

    I saw photos of storm damage with his car, and that's what he drove.

    Dull as heck but probably a great car to eat up the miles and nap if you're a passenger. Maybe even the driver. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    He's old. It's a good oldstercar, a 21st century big old Buick.

    Good road trip car no doubt, which is why I'd be happy to get one as a rental - when I rent for leisure, I tend to drive a lot, so I don't balk at renting higher classes. I put a good 2K miles on the Regal I rented in ATL.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Doesn't seem to be a shortage of Lexus at my local dealer - huge lineup of RX and IS in the holding lot, and an array of CT in every color.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2012
    Yup, Japanese Buick, but made in the USA.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do they make the RX here in the US yet? Don't even know...

    You saw the supply numbers. They're not out but they don't exactly have a bunch sitting on the lots.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited January 2012
    Maybe some dealers are getting more supply than others. I have no doubt if I wanted the cushy L, I could go down to my dealer and find what I want right off the lot.

    I think RX is still made in Japan, although I want to say a Canadian plant has made them too.

    Oh, just saw a 2012 Camry SE rental.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure they're out of the dark maroon ones.

    Inside joke. ;)

    I see a few new Camrys every day, they're getting them out quick.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Light maroon works too :shades:

    I have seen quite a few new Camry too. It will sell like hotcakes even if the "reinvention" is very stodgy compared to come competitors. However...Camry people don't care.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The whole segment is that way. I'm not sure the Camry is any worse than average as far as that goes, could even be better.

    I test drove a Mercury Milan and it bored me to tears. Even the Kia Optima base/manual was yawn inducing. An Accord rental was a snoozer.

    I'm not shopping in this class but I doubt the Camry is duller than those, at least in SE guise.

    The powertrain and NVH control are were it stands out, though. Residuals, gas mileage, stuff like that. That's what the segment wants.

    It targets neither of us.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Yeah...Camry people, Accord people, Optimata people...pretty much the same. Most people want an appliance, nothing more.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Agreed.

    My point is that's the yardstick against which the Camry should be judged.

    The new one does well catering to that audience. Not exciting, not for you or me, but still, look how many people buy 'em up, they're doing something right.

    Pickups sell in huge volumes and those don't appeal to me either.

    Though I would take a Raptor to drive on the beach. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Toyota understands the lowest common denominator more than I could, no doubt. When I drive my mom's Camry, I feel like I am missing something :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Noise, Vibration, and Harshness for starters.

    It's not all bad. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    And steering feel, road feel, any hint that I am actually alive :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I thought Buick was the last car you bought before you died...

    Then again, Avalon is the Japanese Buick! :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited January 2012
    Lots of little old ladies drive Camry and Avalon here. The demographic moved on.

    Before she bought it I actually suggested a Lucerne to her, to which she replied, "old lady car". She's well into her 60s.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Noise, Vibration, and Harshness for starters

    Funny thing is I've read several reviews of the new 2012 Camry recently and they all talked about excess wind noise. That wasn't a problem in the previous Camry. Cost cutting perhaps? I'm still not seeing why I'd pay a dealer a grand more for it over the previous edition. Toyota let quality slip while many of its competitors went the other way. My experience at least is that Camry is not the rock solid mechanicals it used to be. There are probably better choices for the money in 2012. I'm thinking there will be some big promotions on it during the this spring's Toyotathon, so if you want it you may be wise holding off until then. Better yet, wait until next fall when the new Fusion, Malibu, Accord and Altima are out, Toyota will have to compete on sales price I'm afraid, especially given all the plant capacity they have for the Camry here. Kind of funny, Toyota may be becoming what Detroit was for many years!
  • forsfors Member Posts: 3
    I test drove a 2012 Camry to see what was new with the plan to buy.
    I noticed two things that I didn't like:
    the steering into a 45 deg. parking space is very slow and the visibility left me waiting for the sound of scraping metal.

    When I was on the freeway at 60mph and preparing for a short off ramp the car freewheels - in other words, no compression to slow down the car so a driver would have to be on the brakes a lot. Lots of brake jobs will be needed.

    The salesman said both of these problems relate to economical gas mileage. Maybe the steering components are lighter weight and the engine gets better gas mileage when it does not have to help slow the car?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Reviews I read had it the other way around - the interior for instance is a bit nicer.

    The SE model, with big tires, would have more road noise, but that's expected.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's not new - my 2007 Sienna does that. Let off the gas and the trip computer pegs mileage at 99mpg instantly.

    And yes, they cut off fuel to maximize MPG, but that's actually an advantage - I can break 30mpg on trips despite 8 seats and 0-60 in 7 seconds.

    51k and I'm on my original brake pads in the 4000 lbs beast.

    All automakers are heading towards electric PS. Mine's hydraulic, but I think the new ones are all going towards electric for the reduced load on the engine. No power steering pump to spin off the crankshaft.

    And trust me, there was no steering feel before. Fin's absolutely right about that.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    When I looked at it, the dash was indeed upgraded, but the power seats were decontented to optional. I noticed that as a six footer, the roof seemed a little more closed in which is bad because the Camry is kind of height challenged inside already. On the outside, it was basically the old design with some tweaks. It didn't interest me enough to test drive it, so I can't comment on how it drove and rode, but several reviews I read have mentioned intrusive road noise. Honestly, the reliability of my 09 has been unimpressive - not terrible by any means other than a premature water pump issue at 30K, just no better than a lot of the competition either.

    In general, I think Toyota should change it's slogan to "Suddenly it's Yesterday". The Highlander is smaller and lighter than many of its rivals, but gets equivalent or worse fuel mileage because of an ancient 5 speed tranny. The RAV 4 still has the backwards hearse tailgate and I believe like Corolla an even older 4 speed tranny. Most models are just blah. Now, you can do this when you have a big quality and reliability edge, but that's not the case any more as the 07 Camry and 09 Corolla introductions showed.

    Honda has some issues besides the Asian disasters as well. Again, many outdated trannies, poor acoustical engineering, as well as a problem with the ugly stick.

    This has all been great for the Koreans and I guess we'll see if D3 can also take advantage of leaders Toyota and Honda complacency and cost cutting.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    When I looked at it, the dash was indeed upgraded, but the power seats were decontented to optional

    I'm no Camry expert by any means, but having helped a friend shop for a Camry a year ago I do know that the power seat was always optional on the LE. Is it optional on higher trims now?

    Toyota's results were strongly tempered by a 17% decline in Corolla sales, which got whupped even by the underwhelming new Civic.....but with 18,000 sales in January it didn't do too badly....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2012
    power seats were decontented to optional

    You sure?

    They did lower the starting prices, especially for the hybrids. Wonder how price would compare with the option? It's probably a wash.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    56% jump. Impressive.

    What's depressing is that the new Malibu only sold about half as many. Ouch.

    GM has to ditch the weaksauce eAssist approach and go all in like Ford is doing with the new Fusion.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited February 2012
    link title

    Toyota dominated this year’s list with nine category winners for the Toyota brand, and 12 winners, when company’s Lexus luxury brand is included. One notable newcomer to the list is the 2012 Toyota Prius v in the Crossover/Wagon category...
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    edited February 2012
    link title

    Now, I did not go over to the GM boards to post this ;) , but since some of the Toyota hate club love to post anything negative about Toyota, I thought I'd post this here. There's discussion, and then there is hate & gloating. I am NOT happy that GM did not do so well in January - I sincerely hope they do better, and one month does not mean too much.

    Just thought I'd share this and my thoughts about all the hate.... Have a great, happy day.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,784
    Did they actually drive a V? it has current features, but it's horrible to drive.
    It's somewhat better with no cargo/passengers, but that kind of defeats the purpose.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sat in one at the auto show for the first time. It's quite roomy.

    I suspect it will attract loyal Prius buyers who just want a bit more room. Those people will like it.

    Visibility is also quite good.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not just saying this, but the single vehicle attracting the largest crowd, by a wide margin, was the Lexus LF-Lc concept.

    The GS was getting a lot of attention, too. I loved the 12.3" screen. The bumper looks OK when you're not zoomed in WAAAAAY too close and looking at it with a fish-eye lens, LOL. Inside was impeccably finished, one of the nicest cars I sat in.

    Cadillac matches that screen size but it was up on the turn table, so you couldn't see it up close. XTS looks great in person, loved it. ATS seemed a bit plain in comparison, but still good.

    Disappointments? The CT is so small inside, *much* smaller than a Prius. Back seat is tight on leg and head room. You can tell these cars come from different platforms. I bet the Prius C is at least the same size (it was locked, pre-production).

    A little off topic but the Veloster and BRZ are also strictly 2+2s. No leg room in the BRZ, no head room in the Veloster.

    They did not bring the Scion FR-S, surprisingly, since they have more resources than Subaru.

    The Scion iQ was there, funky little car. The asymmetry in the seating is just bizarre, but I'd pick one over a ForTwo (that's not saying much at all).

    The Yaris makes more sense, and finally ditched the center-mounted gauges I didn't like.

    Overall Toyo/Lex had pretty good traffic.

    M-B had the gullwing there, snapped pics and sent everyone a link, which I shared on FB. Could not get inside. They also had a roadster but it was roped off. Surprisingly didn't get much attention.

    Loved the E cabrio they had. That and the C-AMG, those seats are ready for the race track. Didn't like the C250 coupe as much, the seat was sort of lumpy. Interior doesn't hold a candle to the E-class models, either. Night and day.

    BMW had the new 3 series, several of them, all open. I was a bit shocked at how awful the "Fine-wood trim 'Fineline Pure' textured" was. AWFUL! Looked like a pre-schooler carved it with a dull knife. I pulled up the configurator, the Modern Line gets it but not the Sport Line. Consider the Sport Line absolutely mandatory.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    The LF-LC is pretty striking, and attractive from the side anyway :shades:

    I wonder how many knobs were stolen and switchgear broken, or was that all removed?

    I've sat in SLS in both Germany and at home :shades: That's what I'll buy if I win a lottery or become an exec and legally steal a fortune.

    Is the iQ really brand new? I saw two at the local dealer like a month ago.

    Gotta check out the new BMW plood, I need a laugh.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was spinning on a turn table and I didn't see smile-frown-smile-frown-smile. :D

    I still don't like the rear view of the SLS, but when the gullwings are up no one will notice. The roadster lacks the romance/nostalgia factor ... and I like roadsters.

    I feel the same way about the Audi R8. The roadster lacks the CF side blades, which are what gives it character. I have sat in those - lovely, and very livable.

    iQ is not new but it's the first one I've seen in person. Meh, that whole class is style over substance:

    Yaris > iQ
    Cooper hatch > Cooper coupe
    Panda > 500
    Anything > ForTwo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2012
    Gotta check out the new BMW plood, I need a laugh.

    Hold on to your kidneys:

    http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2012/3/335iSedan/Features_and_Sp- - ecs/335iSedanPkgsandOptions.aspx

    Hover your mouse over the part that says "Fine-wood trim 'Fineline Pure' textured".

    That only gives you an idea, you have to see it. The texture is so overdone it's ridiculous.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    There was a 300SL roadster, at least the SLS roadster gets away from the SLS coupe's lack of a rear quarter window. With the prices of old ones, these new versions are downright bargains, and will eventually become collectibles themselves. The details aren't perfect, but it's an exceptionally cool car, and in these inflated days, not terribly overpriced.

    I like the iQ more than a Smart, anyway - better proportions. I remember sticker for the blinged out one locally was around 20K, a little dear.

    Cooper coupe is just dumb, who'd buy that? Oh, I know.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    So it is wood with a texture, or is it plastic?
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