Strangely enough, I prefer the 1992-96 models - a very balanced design, although it is painfully dull in the most cliched rounded 90s way. From what I know, those cars were also over-engineered, and can last a long time.
I also like the mid 1990s Camry best. My Lexus mechanic has a 1994 that is pristine. He worked for a Lexus dealership until he opened his own Toyota/Lexus shop. Claims that model Camry was very reliable. The new model Camry leaves me cold. I believe Toyota peaked in 2006. They got into the numbers race with GM and it has hurt them.
Yeah, those were nice as well. I prefer the later models, perhaps 1995-96? The ones where they went to a more expensive looking grille, and the taillights were no longer full-width, but still came off as more expensive looking. One of the managers here at work had a '96 with the V-6, that made it to something like 190,000 miles. The engine was still going strong, but it had other issues. I forget what they were now, but he sold it to his mechanic for something like $500. Another guy at work has a 1994, I think. 4-cyl. It's been beat upon, but he's also pretty hard on cars. I think it has about 175,000 miles. He just threw about $1200 worth of brake work into it, but his mechanic said it needs another $2000 or so in suspension and other work, so he's in the process of looking for a replacement.
Those 1992-96 models did have an expensive look about them, almost like they were too well-built and high-quality for their price class! The 1997 models rectified that, though. Not that the '97-01 was a bad car, but it just seemed more generic and downscale. The '92-96 probably helped squeeze out the Cressida. However, if they had just held on a bit longer, the '97 would've ensured that the Cressida would have had a place in the Toyota lineup! But instead, they wanted you to "Experience the Tranquility", as Toyota tried to go for the God's Waiting Room crowd with the first-gen Avalon.
Yeah, I think in 95 those cars got an update, the headlights were different too.
The 97-01 could appear in a dictionary as a generic definition of "car". Maybe the blandest design in recent history. I remember the propaganda surrounding the 02s, how it was supposed to be more exciting than the previous generation, and lure in more male drivers. I don't think it was any more exciting behind the wheel.
The Avalon is pretty much the Cressida with all of personality removed.
That does seem to be the last time Toyota was at the top of its game - from then on, complaints have poured in and some of the mags have stopped swooning. I also don't remember seeing the Camry and Corolla taxis then that I often see now.
I will say my mother's 03 felt light years ahead of the Malibu rental I experienced back around that time.
The 92-96 Camry was Toyota putting the world's manufacturers on notice. "This is what we can make for the price of a regular car". Those cars showed precision in construction which other manufacturers are only approaching today. Unfortunately the bean counters took control and the cars were "de-contented" for 1997 onwards though they still retain exemplary fit and finish, albeit with cheaper materials.
I agree with this with the added note that the rock solid reliability was and is still there, excluding the sludge issues on some vehicles. I drove both a 97 Camry and a 00 Camry in excess of 150,000 miles each with only normal service.
But here's the kicker. These two older vehicles as good as they were would be unsalable today. Why? Lack of content and inflation.
These two vehicles cost about $20000 when new. The inflation rate over the years from 2000 to 2009 was about 3% p.a. That means that the price of these vehicles new @ $20000 in say Jan 2000 should be about $26000 in Jan 2009 - if they stayed only at the average rate of inflation.
However both older vehicles as compared to the new 2010's... were 1" narrower and 4" shorter in wheelbase than the current vehicle had 2.2L engines with 125 hp vs 2.5L engines with 169 hp ..getting 30 mpg Hwy vs 32 mpg Hwy had 3.0L engines with 194 hp vs 3.5L engines with 268 hp ..getting 27 mpg Hwy vs 28 mpg Hwy had 2 standard airbags vs 7 standard airbags in the current model had 4ATs vs 6 ATs
However the two older vehicles were entirely lacking, except as options on certain models, the following which the 2010's have as standard equipment.. VSC and TC active headrest restraints ABS, EBD, BA
In addition the following options were not even available.. AUX, USB port, SKS, Navi, Bluetooth, hybrid capability.
IOW the new models are bigger, more comfortable, more powerful, more fuel efficient, with better safety features, with more advanced technologies available, needing less maintenance and are equally as dependable and reliable .... but at a price which is $2000 to $3000 lower than what the rate of inflation would suggest.
Yes, I will admit that I am no fan of the look of the interior ( I do think that the exterior is the best of them all tho ). So what it appears has happened is that content has prevailed over superficial appearances.....all at a lower price !
"Toyota Motor Corp. got "a little bit lost" in its North American strategy and fell out of touch with customers and the market, its new North American chief, Yoshimi Inaba, said Monday.
After years of growth and profits at Toyota, Mr. Inaba said, elements of complacency and arrogance infiltrated the company, which prides itself on being efficient and customer-oriented as well as constantly improving. To address this, Mr. Inaba plans an overhaul of Toyota's North American operations."
Does not look like they will build the Prius here anytime soon if ever.
As part of the overall replanning process, Mr. Inaba said he is evaluating what to do with a partially built plant in Mississippi where Toyota planned to produce its Prius hybrid.
That factory was indefinitely postponed last year. Restarting work on it depends on how strong demand is for the Prius and how the company reshuffles production to address overcapacity. Prius sales have fallen after soaring last year amid then-high gasoline prices.
You should be able to get a good deal if you go for a new Prius with your old clunker
In an hour-long interview with reporters at Toyota's Washington office, Yoshimi Inaba said Toyota is not profitable in North America despite cost cutting in the organization, but he said he hopes the company could be profitable in its next fiscal year in North America. Inaba, who is president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor America and chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, is taking up his responsibilities at a crucial time for the Japanese automaker..
They are suffering from many of the same problems that has plagued GM. They got to thinking they were better than the rest and could do what they wanted to do. I am not at all impressed with Toyota service after sale. Now the dealer I bought from has changed hands for the second time since I bought from them a year and a half ago. It will be the last vehicle I buy from Toyota. Unless on the slim chance they bring the Hi-Lux diesel to the USA.
You should be able to get a good deal if you go for a new Prius with your old clunker
Especially if gas prices stay low for a while longer. If I could just get a lift kit for it. :shades:
With the way the car will come on now and then and recharge the little battery, and the addition of the 120 volt outlet in the 2010 model, we're thinking we could go camping here in the desert in August and just put a portable AC in the tent and run it all night on a few ounces of gas. Not green, but cool.
And reading about all the hacks you can do on them is pretty entertaining too.
Ground clearance is a big issue for me. I hate parking a low slung car and have it scrape on the concrete bumpers in parking lots. Also dragging on steep driveways that are prevalent in most places. I am trying to picture a Prius with a 3 inch lift kit. Big mud "n" snow tires and a brush guard.
Heck, I don't think any high fixed cost business can make money when their market turns upside down like auto's have. Toyota will come back because a lot of people want conservative, reliable cars. However, the big news to me is that Ford has passed Toyota in intial quality. If they can do this longer term it will be huge. Plus more and more Honda problems are popping up on the net like apparently faulty, or at least unreliable, air conditioners and trannies which are both BIG dollar repairs. I hope D3 can capitalize on this because competition is good for the buyer! I do agree that Toyota AND Honda seem to have become arrogant and are making D3 type errors.
However, the big news to me is that Ford has passed Toyota in initial quality. If they can do this longer term it will be huge.
I could not care less about initial quality. It's long term quality that I want. That's the sort of quality than can be measured quantitatively by looking at repair/maintenance costs long term, not short term surveys of questionable worth. I agree, if they can do it long term then it will be huge. Unless there is a fundamental change in their approach I doubt they will achieve it, though anything is possible.
To go back and read old posts and see how some of the predictions turn out. One earlier post said toyota would never take a loss but they did. Another said they would manage just fine with the Freemont Plant in California and tonight the news tells us they are shutting it down and getting rid of 4000 employees. But everything is going according to plan I am sure. Things simply aren't predictable anymore. Smart Sales are off by close to 25 percent and the Mini is off 21 percent and even Subaru official car sales, I guess they consider the Forester a truck, was off 10 percent. Of course Hyundai is holding up well, they are selling cars for less than 8k on TV almost every night. One of our local dealers said they will sell a new Kia for $6999.00 if you buy two. I don't think we have seen the bottom yet and I don't believe Toyota is shutting plants down as any master plan, I think it is the economy period. They might as well shut down Suzuki in the US and save some floor space for bicycle shops.
could already be sealed, according to this article from today's AN:
Profitability could improve in North America, where Toyota is preparing to dissolve a loss-making plant in California that it ran with GM before the U.S. automaker left it behind in bankruptcy with its unprofitable asset-holding Motors Liquidation Co.
A liquidation would likely result in a one-time loss, but it would help Toyota in the long run by raising the rate of capacity utilization at its other North American factories, analysts said.
The article goes on to talk about how Toyota has done such a good job of reining in costs and production that the loss for last quarter is much smaller than expected, and the whole year should be less bad than previously feared.
But I feel for all those folks in Fremont. And what an upheaval it will be, to move Corolla and Tacoma production! Seems like it would be better to continue operating NUMMI, since it is producing models that are still selling well, than use this as an opportunity to increase production in San Antonio and points east and spend all the money it will take to move the Corolla/Tacoma lines.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Battery bottlenecks are hurting efforts to boost output of the Toyota Prius to meet booming demand, and the problem will likely persist into next year, a Toyota official says.
"The new Prius model has been excessively popular, inconveniencing some of our customers, and the factories are working overtime at full capacity," Takahiko Ijichi, Toyota senior managing director, said Tuesday at the company's quarterly earnings announcement.
Toyota Motor Corp. has annual Prius capacity of 500,000 cars. Panasonic EV Energy Co., which makes the nickel-metal hydride batteries for the gasoline-electric hybrid car, can't churn out more than that right now, Ijichi said.
The third-generation Prius hybrid is a bright spot in an otherwise gloomy year for the world's biggest automaker. The car is facing months-long waiting lists at dealerships and is easily outselling Honda's rival Insight hybrid in the United States.
The success of the Prius in Japan is one reason Toyota says it will post its first domestic sales increase in five years.
......Ijichi said Toyota won't invest to expand Prius production until it is assured of an adequate battery supply.
Battery production will increase--but gradually. Panasonic EV Energy, or PEVE, plans to boost capacity in stages to around 1 million batteries by the summer of 2010, Ijichi said.
Despite cutthroat pricing to compete with the Insight, the Prius still enjoys healthy margins, Ijichi said. That's because production costs fell 30 percent from the previous generation of the hybrid.
Said Ijichi: "In terms of the Toyota lineup, I'd say it's probably in the midlevel of profit."
I guess that answers the question of why Tupelo Mississippi remains closed indefinitely. Maybe they will open it next summer if Panasonic really makes it to production of 1 million battery packs annually.
Also, from what I understand the article is worded in a slightly deceptive way. Prius IS outselling Insight in the U.S., but the "months-long waiting lists" (8 months currently) are in Japan, not in the U.S.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also, from what I understand the article is worded in a slightly deceptive way. Prius IS outselling Insight in the U.S., but the "months-long waiting lists" (8 months currently) are in Japan, not in the U.S.
I disagree. You are reading the article with a US-centric point of view. You need to read it with context. The article was written in Japan for domestic consumption but then adopted and presented as US news.
Nevertheless, I think your conclusions regarding Tupelo may be valid.
There are plenty of Prii in San Diego, if you really want one. Much better supply than VW TDIs. One of the big Toyota dealers have 8 in stock. From $30k to $33k mostly 4s and 5s.
If the minivan breaks down in the boonies of western San Diego County before I get to the city, are you going to get it running again for me so I can clunk it? :shades:
I don't mind losing the Lemon Law protection by buying out of state (Idaho's Lemon Law is a joke). I'm less clear on whether I could avoid CA sales tax if I buy there, but if we just sell the van, I could see flying somewhere and driving back.
That is the downside to buying in CA. You have to pay CA tax. They are leeches here. I think Oregon is the best place to buy in my experience over the years. You should be able to get your dealer to bring one from another dealer. Though Idaho has some great discount dealers also.
is that Toyota has made additional offical noises that it will be closing NUMMI by next March. Vibe production ends this week, but of course Corolla and Tacoma production continue there.
Despite Toyota's negative signs with regard to the plant, there are lots of new efforts to keep it open, and perhaps to incentivize Toyota to build the Priuses there instead of in the South at its new plant. From 10 days ago:
FREMONT, Calif. -- Lt. Gov. John Garamendi said Wednesday that he thinks federal stimulus money should be used as one of several steps to help keep the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. plant in Fremont open.
....."We want to make sure that Toyota knows we want them in California and will do anything we can to keep them in California," Garamendi said.
He said he also supports several bills in the state Legislature that aim to help keep NUMMI open.
Garamendi said state Sen. Elaine Corbett, D-San Leandro, has written a bill, SB 483, that would create an enterprise zone in Fremont, while a bill by Assemblyman Alberto Torrico, D-Fremont, ABX4 31, would provide a sales and use tax exemption for capital equipment used by automobile manufacturers.
In addition, Garamendi said he supports SB 830 by state Sen. Roderick Wright, D-Los Angeles, which creates an enterprise zone and tax benefit incentives for automobile manufacturing plants within California.
Garamendi said that while he supports the bills, he thinks more needs to be done to keep NUMMI in California.
He said the federal government bailed out Detroit when its auto industry was threatened, so now the federal government should help California keep its part of the auto industry.
It will be so weird if NUMMI closes after all this time, but it is also true that California is a very expensive place to do anything, especially manufacture cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Dems in California probably have a bit more pull right now than Wicker and the other reps in Mississippi. I have wondered about the Tupelo factory from the freight standpoint.
If Toyota is going to send many parts over (like heavy Panasonic battery packs for the Prius), sending them to NUMMI would save some money over trying to get them to Mobile and trucked, or trucked from Portland.
On the other hand, Tupelo is within a day's drive of half the population for shipping out the finished product.
Ahnold tried to get Toyota to build the Prius in CA several years ago. Maybe they will offer enough corporate welfare to get it done this time. It is still a UAW plant with all the baggage that entails. Will the UAW take deep concessions to remain on the job? That is also one of the most expensive places in CA to live. Looks like a decent 4 bedroom home will cost you about $1.2 million. Close to double many parts of CA.
Cadillac joined Lexus as the brand with the most-pleased customers this year, as Detroit makes held three of the top five posts in an annual University of Michigan study of customer satisfaction.
.....Lincoln-Mercury saw a 6 percent gain from last year, displacing Toyota among the top five. Toyota kept its score at 86, just three points from the top, while falling into a tie for seventh.
Toyota Motor Corp. is looking to end production at its California assembly plant in March following General Motors Co.'s decision to abandon the joint venture, Japan's Asahi Shimbun reported.
Toyota, the world's largest automaker, has said it would decide by the end of this month whether to pull out of the 25-year-old New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., or NUMMI. During its bankruptcy, GM counted its share of the factory as a bad asset and left it with Motors Liquidation Co.
Toyota has started to inform its main suppliers about the plans, the Asahi said.
......Analysts have said a closure of the money-losing factory, currently working at less than half its capacity, would help Toyota by raising utilization at its other underused factories.
I guess they intend to move Tacoma production to the now severely underutilized San Antonio (Tundra) plant they just built, and Corolla production to Ontario (where they already make the mechanically very-similar Matrix). Which kinda makes sense, and if they are already notifying major suppliers I would say this chapter is written, regardless of what Garamendi and his buddies are hoping to accomplish.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, but they make most of them at NUMMI. Question is, how will they be able to produce enough of them at Ontario? Or will they choose to supplement with Japanese production just so they can save costs by shutting down NUMMI?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Jim Press has been canned at Chrysler, after suffering ignominious defeat in his quest to run Chrysler's dealer network and avoid bankruptcy:
UPDATED: 8/21/09 2:40 p.m. ET
DETROIT -- Chrysler Group Deputy CEO Jim Press is planning to leave the company before the end of the year, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday, citing three people who have been informed of the plan.
.....But as Chrysler hurtled toward bankruptcy, his job of motivating dealers grew harder and his reputation suffered. Early this year, with U.S. light-vehicle sales at 27-year lows and Chrysler running out of cash, the automaker sought 78,000 more orders from dealers already overstocked with vehicles.
At the National Automobile Dealers Association convention in late January, Press pushed for the orders, telling dealers it was their job to save the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands. His speech received two standing ovations and prompted some to call for him to take his message to the nation via a television address.
But on Feb. 5, with the company still 15,000 vehicles short of its goal, Press took a different tone in pleading with dealers to take on more cars.
"If you decide not to do that, we've got a good memory of who helped this company make it," he said. "You can either help us or burn us all down."
After two deadline extensions Chrysler reached its target. But the orders and an initial infusion of $4 billion in federal aid weren't enough to keep Chrysler out of bankruptcy.
The company entered Chapter 11 protection on April 30 and two weeks later announced plans to terminate 789 dealerships' franchise agreements, including those of some of the dealers who had ordered more vehicles at Press's request.
It's hard to believe that after such an illustrious career at Toyota, this guy would choose to spurn Toyota for the sake of money, only to go down in flames in his new post. And in such a short time. He's the kind of guy Toyota so desperately needs in North America today. Maybe they should try and tempt him back despite what has gone down.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was thinking the same thing. Toyota needs Press more than Press needs Toyota. I believe he got a huge bonus for taking that horrible job at Chrysler. Toyota is flailing right now with no real direction. Getting Press back if he wants the job would be a smart move.
a job with the Oklahoma City Thunder than work for Toyota. Yuk! Talk about sleeping with the enemy!
I'm so glad the Thunder are doing so crappy, after all, they should still be in Seattle as the Sonics. If only Christine Gregoire could get her priorites straight and save pro basketball teams instead of issues like Boeing employment after Dreamliner repeated failures. And light rail.
40 years of great entertainment and all these Emerald Citi-ites can think of is their own pocketbooks?
After 37 years in the Toyota culture, I don't think Jim Press is going to flourish anywhere else. OTOH, I think he could still provide a hand up to Toyota if he were to return.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think he also got tired of the Japanese way of doing things. He was in favor of diesel hybrids and Toyota was not. Toyota made billions while he was running the show. They did not go into the red for a year after he left. I think Chrysler was in worse shape than Press expected. He did try to revive the diesel hybrid program that Chrysler started in the 1990s and was obviously not successful.
Tokyo -- TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (TMC) announces it will end its Corolla and Tacoma production contract with New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) on March 31, 2010 and shift production of those vehicles to Toyota wholly-owned facilities.
Following the end of the contract, Tacoma pickups will be produced at Toyota's manufacturing facility in San Antonio, Texas, U.S.A., which specializes in trucks. Corollas will be sourced from its Cambridge, Ontario, Canada plant, as well as Japan to meet near-term demand. This will enable an uninterrupted supply of vehicles to dealers and customers in North America.
It is interesting to me that Toyota will choose to source the fairly low-priced Corolla from Japan (to supplement the constrained supply from Cambridge in Canada) rather than keep building them in the U.S. With the unpredictable and generally poor yen exchange rate, that will substantially reduce their profit margin on this volume model.
And this confirms what I suspected would happen: they will move the Tacoma production to the underutilized and brand new San Antonio truck plant. That part makes good sense.
Folks here in the Bay Area are sad about this - that's 4700 folks that won't have jobs next April, and an estimated 20-30K more people whose jobs will be at least incidentally impacted. It is also California's last auto plant (and the first plant Toyota has ever closed, although it is a special case, as it was really GM's plant, and was never more than half Toyota's).
It would be nice if Toyota offered these NUMMI employees jobs in one of their other U.S. plants (like San Antonio) if they were willing to move. On the news tonight, more than one employee interviewed said they would be willing to make the move, even if the wages were lower over there.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
On the news tonight, more than one employee interviewed said they would be willing to make the move, even if the wages were lower over there.
That would be a no brainer for me. San Antonio is a much nicer area to live in. One of the top retirement cities in the USA. Just a bad time to unload a house in Fremont.
And I think of those 124K, most were from NUMMI - I know they build more than 100K Corollas per year over there. If they have to bring in 100K Corollas per year from Japan, I am sure their profit margin on Corolla will drop dramatically.
If OTOH they had decided to keep NUMMI and bring Yaris and Prius production in there as well, they could have knocked out losses on those two models from the dollar-yen exchange, and fully utilized the plant at the same time. Of course, they would have to deal with a UAW workforce making 50% more than any of their other North American employees. That was probably the final nail in NUMMI's coffin right from the start.
With Toyota dumping NUMMI, I wonder if Tesla will want it. They are looking for a new production facility, and have significant expansion plans in the next two years (including a high-volume $30K family sedan) with their new alt-fuel loan from the federal government. AND their headquarters are right there across the bay.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A lower wage in San Antonio would probably go further than the higher one in California anyway.
Shoot, the "Okies" have moved as far west as they possibly could. To where are they going to migrate? I hear this place called China has lots of work, but the conditions are even more abominable than any migrant farm-worker camp.
From their other announcements recently where they've decided to eliminate 1 million units of production worldwide something had to go. This older plant that had just lost a significant part of its production ( Vibe ) was obviously a prime candidate.
That still leaves the Princeton IN plant partly empty waiting for the Highlanders to move there. It also leaves the Tupelo plant completely empty still. Both of those are newer, located in less costly areas and non-union. Prius and Corolla in Tupelo in the future?
Comments
Those 1992-96 models did have an expensive look about them, almost like they were too well-built and high-quality for their price class! The 1997 models rectified that, though. Not that the '97-01 was a bad car, but it just seemed more generic and downscale. The '92-96 probably helped squeeze out the Cressida. However, if they had just held on a bit longer, the '97 would've ensured that the Cressida would have had a place in the Toyota lineup! But instead, they wanted you to "Experience the Tranquility", as Toyota tried to go for the God's Waiting Room crowd with the first-gen Avalon.
The 97-01 could appear in a dictionary as a generic definition of "car". Maybe the blandest design in recent history. I remember the propaganda surrounding the 02s, how it was supposed to be more exciting than the previous generation, and lure in more male drivers. I don't think it was any more exciting behind the wheel.
The Avalon is pretty much the Cressida with all of personality removed.
I will say my mother's 03 felt light years ahead of the Malibu rental I experienced back around that time.
But here's the kicker. These two older vehicles as good as they were would be unsalable today. Why? Lack of content and inflation.
These two vehicles cost about $20000 when new. The inflation rate over the years from 2000 to 2009 was about 3% p.a. That means that the price of these vehicles new @ $20000 in say Jan 2000 should be about $26000 in Jan 2009 - if they stayed only at the average rate of inflation.
However both older vehicles as compared to the new 2010's...
were 1" narrower and 4" shorter in wheelbase than the current vehicle
had 2.2L engines with 125 hp vs 2.5L engines with 169 hp
..getting 30 mpg Hwy vs 32 mpg Hwy
had 3.0L engines with 194 hp vs 3.5L engines with 268 hp
..getting 27 mpg Hwy vs 28 mpg Hwy
had 2 standard airbags vs 7 standard airbags in the current model
had 4ATs vs 6 ATs
However the two older vehicles were entirely lacking, except as options on certain models, the following which the 2010's have as standard equipment..
VSC and TC
active headrest restraints
ABS, EBD, BA
In addition the following options were not even available..
AUX, USB port, SKS, Navi, Bluetooth, hybrid capability.
IOW the new models are bigger, more comfortable, more powerful, more fuel efficient, with better safety features, with more advanced technologies available, needing less maintenance and are equally as dependable and reliable .... but at a price which is $2000 to $3000 lower than what the rate of inflation would suggest.
Sources:
2000 Camry
2010 Camry
Yes, I will admit that I am no fan of the look of the interior ( I do think that the exterior is the best of them all tho ). So what it appears has happened is that content has prevailed over superficial appearances.....all at a lower price !
After years of growth and profits at Toyota, Mr. Inaba said, elements of complacency and arrogance infiltrated the company, which prides itself on being efficient and customer-oriented as well as constantly improving. To address this, Mr. Inaba plans an overhaul of Toyota's North American operations."
Toyota Lost Touch, Executive Says (WSJ via Yahoo, so hopefully the link will work).
As part of the overall replanning process, Mr. Inaba said he is evaluating what to do with a partially built plant in Mississippi where Toyota planned to produce its Prius hybrid.
That factory was indefinitely postponed last year. Restarting work on it depends on how strong demand is for the Prius and how the company reshuffles production to address overcapacity. Prius sales have fallen after soaring last year amid then-high gasoline prices.
You should be able to get a good deal if you go for a new Prius with your old clunker
In an hour-long interview with reporters at Toyota's Washington office, Yoshimi Inaba said Toyota is not profitable in North America despite cost cutting in the organization, but he said he hopes the company could be profitable in its next fiscal year in North America. Inaba, who is president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor America and chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, is taking up his responsibilities at a crucial time for the Japanese automaker..
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090721/AUTO01/907210324/1148/?source=nletter-bu- siness
They are suffering from many of the same problems that has plagued GM. They got to thinking they were better than the rest and could do what they wanted to do. I am not at all impressed with Toyota service after sale. Now the dealer I bought from has changed hands for the second time since I bought from them a year and a half ago. It will be the last vehicle I buy from Toyota. Unless on the slim chance they bring the Hi-Lux diesel to the USA.
http://www.toyotaofpoway.com/company_info.html
Especially if gas prices stay low for a while longer. If I could just get a lift kit for it. :shades:
With the way the car will come on now and then and recharge the little battery, and the addition of the 120 volt outlet in the 2010 model, we're thinking we could go camping here in the desert in August and just put a portable AC in the tent and run it all night on a few ounces of gas. Not green, but cool.
And reading about all the hacks you can do on them is pretty entertaining too.
I could not care less about initial quality. It's long term quality that I want. That's the sort of quality than can be measured quantitatively by looking at repair/maintenance costs long term, not short term surveys of questionable worth. I agree, if they can do it long term then it will be huge. Unless there is a fundamental change in their approach I doubt they will achieve it, though anything is possible.
Thanks!
Profitability could improve in North America, where Toyota is preparing to dissolve a loss-making plant in California that it ran with GM before the U.S. automaker left it behind in bankruptcy with its unprofitable asset-holding Motors Liquidation Co.
A liquidation would likely result in a one-time loss, but it would help Toyota in the long run by raising the rate of capacity utilization at its other North American factories, analysts said.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090804/ANA02/308049973/1289- &AssignSessionID=173357438780107
(registration link)
The article goes on to talk about how Toyota has done such a good job of reining in costs and production that the loss for last quarter is much smaller than expected, and the whole year should be less bad than previously feared.
But I feel for all those folks in Fremont. And what an upheaval it will be, to move Corolla and Tacoma production! Seems like it would be better to continue operating NUMMI, since it is producing models that are still selling well, than use this as an opportunity to increase production in San Antonio and points east and spend all the money it will take to move the Corolla/Tacoma lines.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Battery bottlenecks are hurting efforts to boost output of the Toyota Prius to meet booming demand, and the problem will likely persist into next year, a Toyota official says.
"The new Prius model has been excessively popular, inconveniencing some of our customers, and the factories are working overtime at full capacity," Takahiko Ijichi, Toyota senior managing director, said Tuesday at the company's quarterly earnings announcement.
Toyota Motor Corp. has annual Prius capacity of 500,000 cars. Panasonic EV Energy Co., which makes the nickel-metal hydride batteries for the gasoline-electric hybrid car, can't churn out more than that right now, Ijichi said.
The third-generation Prius hybrid is a bright spot in an otherwise gloomy year for the world's biggest automaker. The car is facing months-long waiting lists at dealerships and is easily outselling Honda's rival Insight hybrid in the United States.
The success of the Prius in Japan is one reason Toyota says it will post its first domestic sales increase in five years.
......Ijichi said Toyota won't invest to expand Prius production until it is assured of an adequate battery supply.
Battery production will increase--but gradually. Panasonic EV Energy, or PEVE, plans to boost capacity in stages to around 1 million batteries by the summer of 2010, Ijichi said.
Despite cutthroat pricing to compete with the Insight, the Prius still enjoys healthy margins, Ijichi said. That's because production costs fell 30 percent from the previous generation of the hybrid.
Said Ijichi: "In terms of the Toyota lineup, I'd say it's probably in the midlevel of profit."
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090805/CARNEWS/908059996
I guess that answers the question of why Tupelo Mississippi remains closed indefinitely. Maybe they will open it next summer if Panasonic really makes it to production of 1 million battery packs annually.
Also, from what I understand the article is worded in a slightly deceptive way. Prius IS outselling Insight in the U.S., but the "months-long waiting lists" (8 months currently) are in Japan, not in the U.S.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The half dozen in town at the two dealer lots were gone last week and no new ones have arrived, if you can believe the web inventory site.
My ~9 year old Panasonic drill is still cranking out the torque on the original batteries.
I disagree. You are reading the article with a US-centric point of view. You need to read it with context. The article was written in Japan for domestic consumption but then adopted and presented as US news.
Nevertheless, I think your conclusions regarding Tupelo may be valid.
Prius is a hot HOT seller right now.
I don't mind losing the Lemon Law protection by buying out of state (Idaho's Lemon Law is a joke). I'm less clear on whether I could avoid CA sales tax if I buy there, but if we just sell the van, I could see flying somewhere and driving back.
Despite Toyota's negative signs with regard to the plant, there are lots of new efforts to keep it open, and perhaps to incentivize Toyota to build the Priuses there instead of in the South at its new plant. From 10 days ago:
FREMONT, Calif. -- Lt. Gov. John Garamendi said Wednesday that he thinks federal stimulus money should be used as one of several steps to help keep the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. plant in Fremont open.
....."We want to make sure that Toyota knows we want them in California and will do anything we can to keep them in California," Garamendi said.
He said he also supports several bills in the state Legislature that aim to help keep NUMMI open.
Garamendi said state Sen. Elaine Corbett, D-San Leandro, has written a bill, SB 483, that would create an enterprise zone in Fremont, while a bill by Assemblyman Alberto Torrico, D-Fremont, ABX4 31, would provide a sales and use tax exemption for capital equipment used by automobile manufacturers.
In addition, Garamendi said he supports SB 830 by state Sen. Roderick Wright, D-Los Angeles, which creates an enterprise zone and tax benefit incentives for automobile manufacturing plants within California.
Garamendi said that while he supports the bills, he thinks more needs to be done to keep NUMMI in California.
He said the federal government bailed out Detroit when its auto industry was threatened, so now the federal government should help California keep its part of the auto industry.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/20298173/detail.html
It will be so weird if NUMMI closes after all this time, but it is also true that California is a very expensive place to do anything, especially manufacture cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If Toyota is going to send many parts over (like heavy Panasonic battery packs for the Prius), sending them to NUMMI would save some money over trying to get them to Mobile and trucked, or trucked from Portland.
On the other hand, Tupelo is within a day's drive of half the population for shipping out the finished product.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/map/fremont,-ca_rb/#/homes/for_sale/map/lot_sort/37.- 565558,-121.916823,37.53834,-121.981282_rect/13_zm/
My guess is Toyota will bail on Fremont.
Cadillac joined Lexus as the brand with the most-pleased customers this year, as Detroit makes held three of the top five posts in an annual University of Michigan study of customer satisfaction.
.....Lincoln-Mercury saw a 6 percent gain from last year, displacing Toyota among the top five. Toyota kept its score at 86, just three points from the top, while falling into a tie for seventh.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090818/CARNEWS/908189997
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Toyota, the world's largest automaker, has said it would decide by the end of this month whether to pull out of the 25-year-old New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., or NUMMI. During its bankruptcy, GM counted its share of the factory as a bad asset and left it with Motors Liquidation Co.
Toyota has started to inform its main suppliers about the plans, the Asahi said.
......Analysts have said a closure of the money-losing factory, currently working at less than half its capacity, would help Toyota by raising utilization at its other underused factories.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20090817/ANA02/908169993/1197
(registration link)
I guess they intend to move Tacoma production to the now severely underutilized San Antonio (Tundra) plant they just built, and Corolla production to Ontario (where they already make the mechanically very-similar Matrix). Which kinda makes sense, and if they are already notifying major suppliers I would say this chapter is written, regardless of what Garamendi and his buddies are hoping to accomplish.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
UPDATED: 8/21/09 2:40 p.m. ET
DETROIT -- Chrysler Group Deputy CEO Jim Press is planning to leave the company before the end of the year, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday, citing three people who have been informed of the plan.
.....But as Chrysler hurtled toward bankruptcy, his job of motivating dealers grew harder and his reputation suffered. Early this year, with U.S. light-vehicle sales at 27-year lows and Chrysler running out of cash, the automaker sought 78,000 more orders from dealers already overstocked with vehicles.
At the National Automobile Dealers Association convention in late January, Press pushed for the orders, telling dealers it was their job to save the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands. His speech received two standing ovations and prompted some to call for him to take his message to the nation via a television address.
But on Feb. 5, with the company still 15,000 vehicles short of its goal, Press took a different tone in pleading with dealers to take on more cars.
"If you decide not to do that, we've got a good memory of who helped this company make it," he said. "You can either help us or burn us all down."
After two deadline extensions Chrysler reached its target. But the orders and an initial infusion of $4 billion in federal aid weren't enough to keep Chrysler out of bankruptcy.
The company entered Chapter 11 protection on April 30 and two weeks later announced plans to terminate 789 dealerships' franchise agreements, including those of some of the dealers who had ordered more vehicles at Press's request.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090821/ANA05/908219992/1249- &AssignSessionID=273363776571698
(registration link)
It's hard to believe that after such an illustrious career at Toyota, this guy would choose to spurn Toyota for the sake of money, only to go down in flames in his new post. And in such a short time. He's the kind of guy Toyota so desperately needs in North America today. Maybe they should try and tempt him back despite what has gone down.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm so glad the Thunder are doing so crappy, after all, they should still be in Seattle as the Sonics. If only Christine Gregoire could get her priorites straight and save pro basketball teams instead of issues like Boeing employment after Dreamliner repeated failures. And light rail.
40 years of great entertainment and all these Emerald Citi-ites can think of is their own pocketbooks?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Tokyo -- TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (TMC) announces it will end its Corolla and Tacoma production contract with New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) on March 31, 2010 and shift production of those vehicles to Toyota wholly-owned facilities.
Following the end of the contract, Tacoma pickups will be produced at Toyota's manufacturing facility in San Antonio, Texas, U.S.A., which specializes in trucks. Corollas will be sourced from its Cambridge, Ontario, Canada plant, as well as Japan to meet near-term demand. This will enable an uninterrupted supply of vehicles to dealers and customers in North America.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090827/ANA02/908279975/1176- &AssignSessionID=273363776571698
(possible registration link)
It is interesting to me that Toyota will choose to source the fairly low-priced Corolla from Japan (to supplement the constrained supply from Cambridge in Canada) rather than keep building them in the U.S. With the unpredictable and generally poor yen exchange rate, that will substantially reduce their profit margin on this volume model.
And this confirms what I suspected would happen: they will move the Tacoma production to the underutilized and brand new San Antonio truck plant. That part makes good sense.
Folks here in the Bay Area are sad about this - that's 4700 folks that won't have jobs next April, and an estimated 20-30K more people whose jobs will be at least incidentally impacted. It is also California's last auto plant (and the first plant Toyota has ever closed, although it is a special case, as it was really GM's plant, and was never more than half Toyota's).
It would be nice if Toyota offered these NUMMI employees jobs in one of their other U.S. plants (like San Antonio) if they were willing to move. On the news tonight, more than one employee interviewed said they would be willing to make the move, even if the wages were lower over there.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What percent of Corollas currently are imported from Japan?
What about Camry?
>Folks here in the Bay Area are sad about this - that's 4700 folks that won't have jobs next April,
Now they can experience a little of what people in the Midwest have gone through. Share the pain.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That would be a no brainer for me. San Antonio is a much nicer area to live in. One of the top retirement cities in the USA. Just a bad time to unload a house in Fremont.
If OTOH they had decided to keep NUMMI and bring Yaris and Prius production in there as well, they could have knocked out losses on those two models from the dollar-yen exchange, and fully utilized the plant at the same time. Of course, they would have to deal with a UAW workforce making 50% more than any of their other North American employees. That was probably the final nail in NUMMI's coffin right from the start.
With Toyota dumping NUMMI, I wonder if Tesla will want it. They are looking for a new production facility, and have significant expansion plans in the next two years (including a high-volume $30K family sedan) with their new alt-fuel loan from the federal government. AND their headquarters are right there across the bay.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Shoot, the "Okies" have moved as far west as they possibly could. To where are they going to migrate? I hear this place called China has lots of work, but the conditions are even more abominable than any migrant farm-worker camp.
That still leaves the Princeton IN plant partly empty waiting for the Highlanders to move there. It also leaves the Tupelo plant completely empty still. Both of those are newer, located in less costly areas and non-union. Prius and Corolla in Tupelo in the future?