Toyota on the mend?

lemko · November 2009

I'm so (censored) sick of the "me generation" I could spit brass tacks. They squanderd the largess left to them by the WWII generation. I feel a lot more in common with my grandpop's generation than any boomers or my own.

lemko · November 2009

Good for you, xlu! What did you purchase? We're very happy with our recent GM purchases - a 2005 Buick LaCrosse and a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance.

gagrice · November 2009

I have to wonder if someone that refuses to buy from an automaker that accepts government bailout money, realizes that Toyota is in that group?

If Toyota does reach a deal, it will be the first Japanese automaker to apply for assistance from the new emergency fund, which is tapping $5 billion from the Japanese government this month to lend to Japanese corporations that operate internationally.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb2009033_969062.htm

Toyota, Honda, Mazda May Ask for Government Bailout

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090304-Toyota-Honda-- Mazda-May-Ask-for-Government-Bailout/

Is Ford the only automaker standing on its own two feet?

210delray · November 2009

Ford took out loans from the Dept. of Energy for the development of new fuel-efficient vehicles, as did Tesla. Aptera is also seeking to receive some of these funds as well. There probably aren't any major automakers in the world right now that haven't accepted some form of government aid.

gagrice · November 2009

GM & C get the prize for the biggest bailouts. I would not say that buying a vehicle from either would be based on the government bailouts. If any company comes up with something I like it would be based on the vehicle not the company. Right now there is only one vehicle that excites me. Nothing from ToyLex is even close. Wife says no! :shades:

kdhspyder · November 2009

I was a direct supplier to Ford, Chrysler and indirectly to GM and Toyota for years and years in the 80s and 90s. Dana was one of our customers along with Magna and others. They were Big customers, HUGE customers, in the $Millions per month rangeat times.

These parts are fabricated as subassemblies in the various subcontractors plants then shipped to the assembly plant. The subassemblies are simply dropped into the production line. No checking is done on any of these items at assembly It's assumed and required that all testing and checking be done at the fabrication level.

The understanding in being a sole supplier is that the vendor is fully responsible for any and all costs if the material or part fails. All makers had this provision in the contracts. It's not negotiable.

The material in question is likely to be HSLA Hot Rolled Steel with a minimum YP of 50k psi that was hydroformed into the required shape then welded into the final configuration. It's almost always the welding that causes the problems. Welding causes unnatural stresses to be introduced into the Heat Affected Zone ( HAF ) along possibly with outside contaminants that weaken the weld and the joint.

It's the same with the 80K psi pipe that we supplied to Alaska. In this case because of the environmental risks every weld had to be X-Rayed to ensure that there were no weaknesses. These risks are present for HSLA plate and HSLA HR steel for bridges, buildings, graders, storage tanks, cryogenic tanks and a huge range of other products. The welds are the weakest points.

gagrice · November 2009

It's the same with the 80K psi pipe that we supplied to Alaska.

Funny you should mention that. The guys at API in Prudhoe that inspect and straighten drill pipe, told me that US made drill pipe had a much higher failure rate than Japanese drill pipe.

I would think that Dana should be the responsible company if their frames fail. Though Toyota is the name on the truck.

mcdawgg · November 2009

"Is Ford the only automaker standing on its own two feet? "

No, it is standing on a pile of debt too - it's all over the internet if you want to see for yourself. Fortunately, they are making good progress, but they still have a lot of debt.

kdhspyder · November 2009

We supplied the plate for the actual pipelines. 100's of thousands of tons of special quality plate that got rolled into the transmission pipelines themselves.

gagrice · November 2009

Just went to Costco. They have a Prius out front with a price reduction sign. They are selling through their program with about $1500 off the MSRP. This was a black one with what looked like leather. I thought that the Prius was in big demand with no discounts.

stever · November 2009

The dealer just over the state line in Oregon had a "everyone belongs to Costco" sale a couple of weeks ago, and had a few Priuses listed in the screamer ad. You got the car at the Costco price and they paid for your Costco card. It was an ok deal compared to TMV.

kdhspyder · November 2009

Costco of course is not a retailer but it does have links to certain dealerships. Those stores can do whatever they want with their inventory. They can sell it at whatever price they choose; $1500 off MSRP or $2000 above MSRP. Nothing new to see here.

From now til Feb 1 it's the slow season every year...these are the months to buy when dealers will be very flexible. From Presidents Day W/E til after Labor Day W/E, that's the busy selling season.

houdini1 · November 2009

You didn't hear of such stories when GM was on top and there were plenty of manufacturing jobs for anybody who wanted to work

LOL, there are still plenty of jobs at GM. You just have to move to Mexico, Canada, or Europe to find one.

210delray · November 2009

I was wondering about that statement also. Let me get this straight...back in the 70s when I graduated from college, I could get a job on the assembly line. Like I would have wanted to work under the conditions that existed in UAW plants at the time. :sick:

kdhspyder · November 2009

In addition to the Toyota / Dana situation...

Today this was posted..GM sues supplier for $30 million

corvette · November 2009

Looks like the lawsuit is over steering rack problems on the G5 and Cobalt. GM has had steering noise problems for years--the intermediate steering shafts on their Epsilon platform vehicles and their trucks are notorious for needing regular lubrication and replacement.

2012aveo · November 2009

I believe the top managers at GM during the 70's and 80's when quality was low were from the WW2 generation. The baby boomer's were still in middle management. I was born in 1962, and yes many baby boomers like me had a bad experience with GM cars and a positive experience with Toyota, Honda or other foreign makes. But whos fault was that?
Nowadays when i am commuting in the New York City area, it seems the only skills the Gen Y and Gen X people have is to step hard on their accelerator pedal. A Very immature group both in the workplace and in the roadway. I hate to say this but GM's decline coincided with that of the nation as a whole. But get real, buying Toyota's did not cause this decline. By blaming Toyota for the nation's decline, you are merely blaming someone else for your problems and not solving your problem. I wish you great luck with your Buicks. My parents owned a 1963 Buick Wildcat and 1970 Buick Riviera both bought new. But that was a long time ago.

doggrandma · November 2009

I'm not keen on cheap stuff from any country, nor do I consider myself to be part of anything called the "me generation". Boomers paying taxes have enabled past and current retirees to have such generous benefits. Boomers are the ones who are going to be left holding the empty bag when the government Ponzi schemes go belly up.

I should have said taxpayer bailout rather than government bailout. Each and every one of us was forced to give GM some of our money with no say on the matter.

As far as buying a GM vehicle, I wonder if the company will be around in the long run, so who is going to service your GM vehicle in the future? The same people who keep people on hold for over an hour when you call a government agency for information or assistance? Government "help" is never without strings attached.

explorerx4 · November 2009

your post has a 'me generation' ring to it. 'you' will be left holding the bag for social security, 'your' money was used to bail out GM.
who is going to service a gm car in the future? the same 17 year old kid in tech school that services a toyota.

fintail · November 2009

We've been giving aid to corporations for generations with no say in the matter, not to mention aid to ungrateful and destructive countries with no say in the matter. Why are people just starting to complain when an automaker gets a statistically small piece of the welfare pie? And why is having no say in things just now an issue, when it has been a reality for endless decades?

At least some boomers will get to retire...the empty bag will outlive them all.

There's no such thing as a free lunch no matter who is giving it.

kdhspyder · November 2009

Suck it up, move on and depend on yourself.

stever · November 2009

Or at least move back to the topic.

anythngbutgm · November 2009

My buddy who at the time was a service manager for a large GMC/B/P dealer in New Hampshire had two Sierras that had intermediate steering shafts replaced on more than one occasion. The good part was he got the parts at cost and a reduced labor rate but it was one of the biggest things he used to complain about with those things. His wifes Suburban had a failing shaft on her then 40k mile Suburban as well.

He has since left the dealership, dumped the second GMC after lemoning the first one and now has a flawless Tundra (One of the first to come off the line) and his wife has a Highlander.

Doubt GM will get him back ever again. :sick:

gagrice · November 2009

now has a flawless Tundra (One of the first to come off the line)

Until the frame rots away, transmission pukes, tailgate falls off, or the brake rotors warp. The Toyota Tundra may be the biggest mistake Toyota made. Even with all the issues at GM I would take one of their trucks over the Tundra. Though if I was buying today it would be a Ford Truck.

anythngbutgm · November 2009

Hey Gary, what year is your Sequoia? Does it have any of these things going on with it? Because it's basically a Tundra with a third row...

The current Tundra discussion is for Tundras that are nearing 10 years old, not the newer ones. The RAV4 discussion I visit had an owner with a 2001 model with more than 330 thousand miles on it. Two guys here at work have 04's and neither of them have had these problems with over 100k miles on each of them.

And these things have been going through New England winters. :shades:

andre1969 · November 2009

I think Gary's Sequoia is a 2007...or whatever the last year was of the previous generation. Which means, oh the horror, that it's based on that generation of Tundra that's supposed to have the frame rot! If he lives in California though, I'm guessing that shouldn't be an issue for a long time, unless he goes out driving on the beach at high tide.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2009

he ships his Sequoia to his Hawaii home and goes beach-busting in it over there. :P

gagrice · November 2009

My understanding is the 2008 Sequoia is the first to share the Tundra frame. If it is one of those old worthless Tundra frames I better get rid of it while the 7 year warranty is in place. It was still a big financial mistake for Toyota. They never came close to their projected sales. Just part of the demise of the Toyota name plate in the last several years.

PS
If I do take the Sequoia into snow country I will steam clean underneath and park it back in the garage.:shades:

Update: I did get my new NAV from India installed. It is the same old 2005 DVD map 5.1 program. So the same old issues are still there. A person is better off with a $200 Garmin than a $2000 Toyota NAV.

The Toyota service center in Santee was very good to deal with. They only do service. No sales from that location. Great Mexican food at Cazadores just a couple blocks away.

gagrice · November 2009

he ships his Sequoia to his Hawaii home

I don't think so. I would just buy an old Jeep or Subaru AWD for HI. Nothing lasts long over there. Or a VW/Audi that has good rust warranty. I don't ever remember seeing a Tundra or Sequoia on the Big Island. Lots of Tacomas and the Honda PU sells pretty well.

anythngbutgm · November 2009

I don't think so, maybe I'm wrong but it seems way more cost effective to share frames with the Tundra and Sequoia. I doubt Toyota started doing this with the newest generation. BTW, rust can happen to any vehilce from any maker, Heck I came across a discussion about rusting Silverados here on Edmunds

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f194348

I've also seen as late as 2005 models with rusting bumpers already. The crap they use to melt the ice nowadays is so harsh I'm amazed it's even legal. :sick:

nippononly · November 2009

The statement
A person is better off with a $200 Garmin than a $2000 (automaker's name here) NAV.

is pretty much true regardless of the automaker.

gagrice · November 2009

You could be right on the common frame. I really don't know. The only recall I can find on the 2007 Sequoia is also for the 2004-06 Tundra. It was a steering issue. Hopefully my 2007 which was built after that Jan07 recall would have the updated equipment. Really very little chance of rust being an issue with my Sequoia. The only rain it has gotten on it was the 5700 mile trip around the USA last month. It stays in the garage much of the time. I am trying to wear out my wife's 1990 LS400 so we can justify a new vehicle.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2009

mats in that '90 Lexus LS400, I must believe, gagrice. :P

I still find it unfathomable that VW sells more cars worldwide than Toyota, even with Toyota's tough 2009 history. VW's gonna have to work on me a lot more than they have to win me over. I still regard them as sort of a Chinese product that even Wal*Mart's afraid to put up for sale for cheap.

Electrical gremlins apparently are not all the like of 60's Ford products. The taillights on my '65 Mustang would burn out as fast as Britney Spears goes through men. :sick:

gagrice · November 2009

The NAV in my Sequoia is the only one I have ever used. It is much less than I expected after all the raves about them. I expected more than AAA maps have to offer. It is for the most part less. Forget the POI. I cannot tell you how many times the NAV led us to empty lots where once a gas station may have been. If you want up to date information, Onstar is so much more than a NAV.

gagrice · November 2009

mats in that '90 Lexus LS400

Not an issue. There is room for several floor mats without interfering with the gas pedal. The original mats are still in the car. Slightly worn though still usable. I would be surprised in 2029 to see any 2009 LS still running good with no major out of pocket costs.

lemko · November 2009

My first Buick was a 1968 Special Deluxe - an excellent car that was still in my family as late as 1992. My second Buick was a 1979 Park Avenue with an awesome 403 V-8. I just sold my 1988 Buick Park Avenue at the end of March. Funny, those last two fall into that so called "low quality" period. People are also forgetting the truly awesome 1980s Buick Grand National. My only problem will be to no longer be able to get those awesome Buicks if GM falls. My new car buying days will then be over. Well, maybe I'll defect to Mopar.

anythngbutgm · November 2009

link title

Honda, Hyundai, Toyota Tops in Fuel Efficiency

Honda has the most fuel-efficient U.S. fleet with an average of 23.6 mpg, followed by Hyundai and Toyota in second and third place, respectively, according to preliminary figures released by the Environmental Protection Agency.
Hyundai averaged 23.4 mpg and Toyota had 23.2 mpg  close on the heels of Honda. Volkswagen came in fourth with 22.3 mpg, while Nissan and BMW tied for fifth with an average of 21.6 mpg. Of those, only Toyota and Nissan offer both full-size pickups and SUVs.

Highlighting the gap that has plagued the Detroit Threes gas-guzzler habit, the American automakers finished in the last three slots of the study. Ford averaged 20.5 mpg, GM had 19.9 mpg and Chrysler had just 18.7 mpg.

Since Honda builds nothing with a V8 and Hyundai is offering it in 1 vehicle, it's pretty safe to say Toyota deserves kudos here.

lemko · November 2009

Yeah, well Gen-X and Gen-Y won't even have an empty bag to hold. As far as service goes, I can take any of my vehicles to my very competent and honest corner mechanic.

lemko · November 2009

Feh, I rely on the map I got from the American station I got back in 1968! Hey, look! They're going to be finishing I-81 in Luzerne County pretty soon!

lemko · November 2009

I still regard them as sort of a Chinese product that even Wal*Mart's afraid to put up for sale for cheap.

For that stuff, go to any dollar store. Leno had a bit on last week about ridiculous dollar store merchandise. One was a puzzle map of the United States that had North Carolina labeled as "North Dakota" and South Carolina as "South California!"

gagrice · November 2009

Toyota deserves kudos here.

So you believe that selling a Prius to offset the low mileage of a V8 Sequoia is commendable? You don't really believe that Toyota sells the Prius because they want to be green do you?

Here is a fact that those on this board should appreciate. For every Prius Toyota sells they can sell 3 Land Cruisers that get 15 MPG. And still maintain 23.75 MPG. So tell me how Toyota can build their Prius in Japan and have it profitable? How much profit do you think Toyota makes on 3 Land Cruisers or Sequoias?

anythngbutgm · November 2009

Sure. Back in the early century, large SUV's were selling and raking in big profits. I won't condemn Toyota for jumping into the game. Also, let's go back a few years and compare Toyota to a company like Government Motors:

Toyota SUV's (Truck based or car based, V8 offered)

Land Cruiser
LX470
GX470
Sequoia
Tundra
4Runner

GM:
HUMMER H2
Tahoe
Suburban
Yukon/ Yukon XL
Trailblazer/ Trailblazer EXT
Envoy/ Envoy XL
Isuzu Ascender/Escender XL
Buick Rainier
Sierra
Silverado
Silverado HD lineup
Sierra HD lineup
Kodiak
Escalade/ Escalade ESV/ Escalade EXT
Avalanche
SRX

There is also a V8 HUMMER H3, Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon pickup. Shoot, this doesn't even include the V8's that went into all the GM cars!

You don't really believe that Toyota sells the Prius because they want to be green do you?

Actually, yes. The Green movement goes far beyond the Automakers and I believe in the old adage "Build it and they will come" so I won't fault Toyota for finding success with a few hundred thousand Prius takers over the years

gagrice · November 2009

I give you the fact that overall Toyota was smarter than GM, C or Ford. Just no way will I call them green. Honda maybe. The Prius was more or less forced on them to be competitive in Japan and keep the CAFE fines in control.

gsemike · November 2009

They saw an opportunity and the met it. What's worth doing is worth doing for money.

andre1969 · November 2009

So you believe that selling a Prius to offset the low mileage of a V8 Sequoia is commendable? You don't really believe that Toyota sells the Prius because they want to be green do you?

Well it might not be much, but it's still more effort than what GM, Ford, or Mopar were putting forth!

lemko · November 2009

Any updates about the 'Trep?

andre1969 · November 2009

Yeah, unfortunately it's totaled. And I can forget about buying it back and trying to fix it myself. Maryland has laws in place nowadays that can make that a hassle. I'd have 90 days to fix it, and it would have to pass inspection. I was planning on just splicing wires back together until I can get the idiot lights to go off, replace the headlight, and bang the fender back out as best I could. But if it has to pass an inspection, that might not be enough. Especially if there's something in there messed up that throws the headlights out of alignment. And even if I got it to pass, I'd still have to get a salvage title.

Anyway, I guess the new car hunt is on. Probably won't be anything from Toyota, though! :P

lemko · November 2009

Would you buy my Grand Marquis so I have an excuse to get a new LaCrosse? :P Heck, the Cadillac people are trying to get me to buy a new 2010 DTS or STS. I only have like 10K on my '07. Blame that on it being black and the super-lousy weather we've had all summer to the present.

larsb · November 2009

Not many commuter cars of ANY ilk are on the road "running good with no major out of pocket costs" after 20 years, if they are actually driven.

Collector cars and cars over $100K are excepted, of course.

kdhspyder · November 2009

I don't care whether they're 'green' or not. That's just advertising to bring in more customers in order to make more money.. oh wait, that's the purpose of being in business. :surprise:

As long as their products get me an my wife from A to B with little or no cost that's all that's required of them. They're a business like any other business..
..if there's a restaurant that serves food we like, we eat there;
..if there's a home improvement center that has the products we like, we shop there;
..if there's a vacation spot that's affordable and satisfies our needs, we go there.

We don't give much of a hoot whether any or all of these are 'green' or not.

Toyota on the mend?

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