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Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Here's an interesting article that may put to rest some of the rampant speculation going on here lately.

    Let me hasten to add that I strongly disagree with some of the commentary after the article that adheres to the "Darwinism" school of driving. In fact, I find it repulsive.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    Interesting link to another article in same paper says this:

    One witness reported that she was driving north on state Route 125 at Grossmont College Drive when she saw a white Lexus going about 45 to 50 mph with its emergency flashers on, “surging like it was out of gas.” She passed the car, then saw in her rearview mirror that it was pulling over to the right shoulder and lost sight of it.
    Seconds later, the car zoomed past her.

    “I’ve never seen a car go that fast,” she told investigators. Another witness described the speeding sedan as a “white blur.”

    The report concludes that while other factors — electrical, mechanical or computer glitches — cannot be ruled out because of the severity of damage to the car, the sudden acceleration was caused by the gas pedal trapped either in the grooves of the mat or underneath it.

    Conclusion:
    So this is saying the car actually was stopped on the shoulder at one time!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >you are posting certainly doesn't sound like you have an open mind !

    I certainly won't post a personal criticism in response.

    None of the possibilities has been proven not possible such as computer glitches. Indeed, other sources such as the one I heard today from an area shop owner indicate they are more possible. Since I am not a dealer or any brand nor do I work for any dealership or auto company, I have only my personal opinion and some scientific logic. E.g., does anyone think the driver did not attempt to put the car into neutral? E.g., does anyone think the driver did not attempt to stop the car with the brakes? E.g., does anyone think the driver did not attempt to shut down the computer with the "On" button?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    If the report on The Truth About Cars is accurate, I'd say it definitely increases the likelyhood the floormat caused the problem. Certainly, none of us can rule out a software/computer/electrical issue, but the fact that the car exhibited a stuck throttle due to the floormat with a previous driver is critical info.

    In that scenario, you have one or two good attempts to stop the car with the brakes alone. Obviously that didn't happen (or atleast they still didn't turn the engine off or get it into neutral), so braking power was nearly nonexistant the whole time the throttle was stuck. The on/off button require something like 3 seconds of being depressed to turn the engine off. That's a long time in a panic situation and if your not aware that's how it works, I can easilly envision someone in a panic just repeatingly pushing on the button with nothing happening. Regarding shifting into neutral, I simply don't know. Looking at the shifter on an ES350, it's gated shifter and simply pushing it forward will not engage neutral, it has to be moved to the right and up. Maybe he tried and only downshifted a gear or two, which would still allow 100+ mph speeds or maybe sometype of problem kept it from going into neutral.

    But, it sounds like the dealer is up a creek if someone reported the floormat sticking the throttle and they didn't do anything about it. Yikes.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that the vehicle might be hard to take out of drive when going that fast and that it might "stick" in 'D' when trying to put it in neutral? There isn't a safety lock on at that speed, is there? I don't understand why this off-duty officer didn't pop that pup in to neutral, at whatever frightening speed he was out-of-control at.

    Disconnect the wheels from the power source and the vehicle slows down. This solves the problem every time.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'm sure it's possible something could have failed to keep the car from going into neutral. It would be interesting to know what position the gear lever was in when they found the car.

    The guy driving it before when the throttle stuck was able to get it into neutral with the throttle stuck. He did mention he couldn't get the engine to turn off even when in neutral. I'm guessing the 3 second delay is the issue.

    Maybe push button start/stop buttons that your finding in many vehicles is a bad idea.

    Just a horribly unfortunate accident that shouldn't have happened.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,720
    none of my vehicles have a gated shift.
    a couple of weeks ago, i got the opportunity to drive one.
    it had the usual straight 'prnd...", plus manual +/- off to one side.
    one time i touched the shift and knocked it over into the manual mode, which was not my intention.
    it was kind a shock considering i have been a pretty frequent poster here regarding what happened in the california incident.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    about these push-button "start-stop" buttons in cars I'm not so sure I'd really want one now.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >But, it sounds like the dealer is up a creek if someone reported the floormat sticking the throttle and they didn't do anything about it. Yikes.

    That secretary needs an attorney now. It doesn't sound like she exercised reasonable diligence. OR, the tech to whom she says she told the problem is the one at fault and is lying that she didn't tell him.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It looks like the person using the loaner before Saylor, was able to get to the side of the road and shift into neutral.

    In the sheriff’s report, Bernard told investigators that he had the car, one in a fleet of loaners belonging to the Lexus dealership, on Aug. 24 and 25. He said that on the second day, while merging onto Interstate 15 from the Poway Road on-ramp, he took his foot off the gas and the car kept accelerating, to 85 mph.

    Bernard pressed long and hard on the brakes and was able to pull over and slow down. He put the car into neutral, but the engine continued to race at full speed. After several failed attempts at turning off the engine, he realized the floor mat had jammed the gas pedal.

    He slid his foot under the accelerator, dislodged it and had no further problems, the report says.

    Bernard reported that the receptionist said he should tell the detail specialist on the lot when he picked up his car. Bernard did not say anything further and assumed the receptionist would tell the appropriate people.

    In her initial interview with investigators Sept. 17 at the dealership, the receptionist, Jessica Martin-Dunleavy, 20, said she did not remember Bernard or any specific complaints. In an off-site interview two weeks later, Martin-Dunleavy said that she did recall an older couple returning a car and that the man told her “the mat made the car go full-throttle.”

    She then said she told the detail specialist on duty. That employee, Octaviano Garcia, 44, said no one mentioned anything to him about the problem with the car, according to investigators.


    The Dealer will have a lot to explain in court.

    Dave Ezratty, vice president of Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon, declined to meet with a Union-Tribune reporter who went to the dealership yesterday seeking comment.

    “It often takes a very detailed and persistent effort to get to the real truth,” Schoville said.

    In the report, Ezratty told sheriff’s officials that the dealership takes out the stock carpet mats of its loaner cars and replaces them with all-weather mats. He said they do not mix and match floor mats and that a mat for a Lexus SUV would not be placed in a sedan because it would not fit. Ezratty told investigators he was confident that the correct mats are always used.

    The investigation found that the loaner car’s mat was about 2 inches longer than the one intended for that model and was made for the 2005-09 Lexus RX 400H sport utility vehicle.

    In a nondriving test at the dealership by investigators, the same type of mat was placed in a Lexus ES 350 and the pedal, when pushed down, became entrapped.


    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/04/report-loaner-car-in-fatal-crash-- had-earlier/
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    this pup's becoming clearer and clearer as we muddle along through it. The dealer's screwed. They screwed up. Short and clear and the end of this one. Perty much what most all of us agreed on already. But they're putting the wrong size mat in their loaner rigs.

    And they're getting trapped under the accelerator and causing hyper-speeding. Yikes, hopefully they've seen the error of their ways and have corrected anything like this ever having a chance of happening again. Very Tragically un-Hip, dudes and dudettes.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,720
    it's too bad that the lowest people on the totem pole, receptionist and detail specialist, are probably going to be roasted over this.
    if you asked them if they had any training regarding vehicle safety related issues, i'm guessing their answer would be none.
    most receptionist/cashiers at dealerships are hired because they look nice.
    'off site interview' = sheriff's office
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Looks like we are slowly getting to the bottom of this one. No computer glitches, just a series of very poor decisions, starting with whoever decided to stack the wrong mats and ending with a poor guy who apparently was under so much stress that he went into a state of confusion and shock during the episode. Probably could have happened to any of us if we were under enough stress.

    The tragedy is beyond words, but maybe this whole exercise will save many lives in the future.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • whoosierdaddywhoosierdaddy Member Posts: 76
    What keeps Toyota alive is perceptions of reliability and resale value, nothing else. When that is gone, Toyota takes a BIG DIVE in market share.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,720
    it's funny how 2 people can look at the same thing and draw different conclusions.
    actually, from my perspective, there is no conclusion, yet.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It's good to know that you were then in the vehicle. First hand accounts are always valuable.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    More conjecture.

    I've actually done it at 55 and 65 mph in my own cars. Others on places like PriusChat have done it at WOT at 85 mph. I don't think any civilian is going to try doing it at 100+ mph. There's no problem whatsoever in not being able to shift into neutral in the examples noted.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm even more confused now.

    If it was the floor mat sticking the accelerator pedal:

    Why did he not just let the wife hold the wheel and reach down there and pull it loose !!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

    This whole thing makes less sense, not more, as it goes on.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You need to read the sheriffs test. They sat at the dealers in an ES350 with the same floor mat used in the subject vehicle. When they pushed down on the throttle it jammed WO. The floor mat was 2 inches too long. Which meant when you stepped on the throttle it went past the end of the incorrect floor mat and stayed at WOT. It was not a matter of the floor mat sliding up under the throttle. It was there from the get go. Wrong floor mat, two cases of WOT, one ended without death, the second one was not so lucky. When you are going on a busy highway at 120-150 MPH the main objective is to not hit anyone. That was about all he could do. There is something in this telling US that top speed limiters could be helpful also. 100 MPH should be enough for anyone wanting to pass. Today's over powered vehicles are a threat all by themselves. My question would still be? Was the gear shift on the 09 ES350 the same as his IS250 being serviced?

    The investigation found that the loaner car’s mat was about 2 inches longer than the one intended for that model and was made for the 2005-09 Lexus RX 400H sport utility vehicle.

    In a nondriving test at the dealership by investigators, the same type of mat was placed in a Lexus ES 350 and the pedal, when pushed down, became entrapped.

    Stuck in the open-throttle position, Saylor’s loaner car reached speeds calculated between 112 and 150 mph. Saylor was driving, his wife was in the front seat, and Mahala and Lastrella were in back.


    The Dealer is responsible for the deaths.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >It's good to know that you were then in the vehicle. First hand accounts are always valuable.

    Actually I wasn't in the car but have an open mind and consider the logic and the hypotheses as to what could have happened. To use a folksy example, Judge Judy might conclude, if it doesn't make sense, it's not the way it happened: if the person in the car could have shifted into neutral, why would they not have shifted? Was something preventing it? Shift into 1st, Park, 2nd, 3rd.

    There's reason he didn't shift to neutral and the question in my post to which yours is a response asked if the
    shift control is electronic and controlled by the computer or a subcomputer which might have prevented shifting because of computer malfunction?

    Inability to shift because the computer won't shift is a logical hypothesis, still unanswered. I was thinking a thoroughly knowledgeable person who sells Toyotas would have the answer to that question. :)

    It's really hard to think the driver is saying, "Hold on Honey, eventually I'll see if this barge will shift into neutral but I won't try it now because I'm concentrating on staying in my lane!!!"

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Inability to shift because the computer won't shift is a logical hypothesis, still unanswered.

    I totally agree. Testing a Prius or Venza to 50-60-85 MPH is irrelevant to going 120 MPH plus in an ES350, trying to get the shifter to respond. Will the EDR shed light on that? I have a feeling the investigators already know. It is probably sealed evidence for the trial that could be a block buster.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Looking at the shifter on an ES350, it's gated shifter and simply pushing it forward will not engage neutral, it has to be moved to the right and up.

    That is absolutely incorrect. I currently own two Lexus' and the normal DRIVE position is to the right side. You just have to bump straight up from drive to neutral. Very simple, very easy. If you want to manually shift you move the lever to the left side.

    We have gone over this several times in this thread..but it seems the truth just doesn't sink in.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    To me, these were all hypotheses in light of the various sources and stories about unintended acceleration that are over the internet and not just new ones from those "copycat posters" (are those the same peopleToyota put the blame on for not changing the oil in their sludge-prone Toyos earlier than 7500 miles or 10,000 or whatever the extended change period recommended was?).

    BUT when I heard the area auto repair facility owner say acceleration had happened to HIM while driving and there were NO floor mats..., my estimate of more nonpublic info sludging up the facts here went to high alert. He also said he had people with problem cars long before this current knowledge hit the skidpad!!!

    Just as with the sludge, the longer this drags out, the more the past stellar reliability reputation nurtured with almost every advertisement dollar will fall to earth. A lady calling about her Matrix wanting to surge ahead at random times indicated she's trading the car because she's afraid of it unless the dealer will do more than fix it. The dealer won't look at it because it won't do it for them was her report. I suspect it will go to this talk show host's garage before the lady is done--she'll pay at her own cost. She's very unhappy with the dealer.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    That is absolutely incorrect. I currently own two Lexus' and the normal DRIVE position is to the right side. You just have to bump straight up from drive to neutral. Very simple, very easy. If you want to manually shift you move the lever to the left side.

    My mistake, I was going by what I've seen in pictures and it's not straight forward by looking at it, but I can still see in a panic situation someone inadvertently moving the shifter to the left, thus moving forward will not engage neutral.

    image
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    From looking at the pic it is an easy mistake to make but it becomes intuitive in a short time.

    The entire slot on the left is for manual shifting. The shifter stays in the middle automatically. The top of the slot or the + means up one gear and the - at the bottom means down one gear. The N is positioned where it looks like it means the slot on the left but it actually is for the top of the slot on the adjoining spot on the right. There was just no other spot to put it.

    Yes, people are apt to do almost anything if there is enough stress involved.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The heck with neutral - the guy was flying and it was a loaner. Why not try to cram it into reverse or park - even 1st (or whatever S-D+/- is). Was that tried? What position was the shifter in at the crash scene?
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Yes, it is unbelievable that some of this info is not being made public. I don't understand it at all.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    LA Times: 12/5/09

    Regulators are looking into complaints of stalling -- in some cases at highway speeds -- in Corolla and Matrix cars from model year 2006. The investigation covers an estimated 397,000 vehicles.

    It's the latest in a string of quality-related issues for the Japanese automaker in recent months.

    The new investigation is another blow to an automaker that has seen its long-held reputation for quality come under attack amid a flurry of safety-related recalls and investigations this year.

    Toyota has announced recalls of more than 4.8 million cars and trucks in the U.S. and Canada since January.

    NHTSA's records of complaints show numerous incidents of Corolla and Matrix vehicles stalling, often in situations in which other vehicles could strike the car.

    The agency indicates that the problem could be linked to the electronic control module, or onboard computer. Toyota on its own issued a technical service bulletin to its dealers two years ago calling for replacement of that component in Corolla or Matrix vehicles experiencing "harsh shift."

    Neither the Corolla nor the Matrix is included in the massive recall announced last week.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    What you specifally stated as fact was that you were certain that the driver did actually try to shift to Neutral;...your words.

    I'm sure the officer tried to do that.

    Again I'm glad that you had a God's eye view of what happened in this tragedy. You should have been able to avoid it though don't you think? .

    Again here you state categorically - because you had this God's eye view - what actions the driver did or didn't do. ...your words.

    There's reason he didn't shift to neutral and the question in my post to which yours is a response asked if the
    shift control is electronic and controlled by the computer or a subcomputer which might have prevented shifting because of computer malfunction?


    Or do you think it's more likely that you're simply guessing based on no facts whatsoever. This is a common tactic in an argument directed toward the weak minded where you state a non-fact fact and work off that basis. The only problem is that your entire hypothesis is based on a non-fact fact. IOW you're making sh** up.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    In the Prius ( of this I'm certain ) and for the other DBW vehicles ( I believe ) shifting from Drive to Reverse or Park at any speed defaults into Neutral.

    Try it. I have.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Investigations occur all the time. Some are continued and some are closed. Here is the report at ODI for the month of November

    ODI Defect Investigations

    They cover..
    MB ML's
    Odysseys
    Accords
    Sables
    Volvo trucs
    Malibu and Malibu Maxxs
    Infinity Q45 and M45
    Sequoias
    Odysseys again
    Freestars and Monterrys
    Imprezas
    Honda Passport
    Saab 9-3
    Saab 9-3 again
    Edge and MKZ
    Sorrentos
    Jettas and A3 TTs
    Wranglers
    XC90s
    Escapes
    Chrysler minivans
    Accords, Civic and TLs
    Tundras
    F150s
    BMWs
    Mazda MX8s
    Explorers
    Corvettes
    Tahoes and Yukons..

    That seems to cover almost the entire industry. Some are still open and some are closed. Life goes on.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,720
    they are no pictures i have seen that allow you to figure out what position the shift was in.
    it may have changed after the accident anyway.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >what position the shift was in.
    it may have changed after the accident anyway.

    The forces during that awful crash would probably have moved it or it would have moved as bodies hit it.

    I want to know what was found in the black box info.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    IOW you're making sh** up.

    LOL. Well that is what people do when they are engaged in a battle of wits...and realize that they are unarmed !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Considering we had a local officer accidentally shoot himself while cleaning his gun

    Was that Deputy Fife by any chance? I thought Sheriff Taylor told him to keep that bullet in his pocket?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    LOS ANGELES, Dec. 6 (UPI) -- A crash that killed a California family may or may not have been caused by the floor mats of his Lexus trapping the accelerator, investigators say.

    The investigation came as Japanese automaker Toyota has recalled more than 4.2 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles to fix a problem in which small clearance areas between the gas pedal and the rubber floor mats have caused accelerators to stick open and produce uncontrolled acceleration, the newspaper said.

    The San Diego County Sheriff's Department's probe of the accident that killed CHP Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, daughter and brother-in-law, concluded that while floor mats in the loaner car may have played a role, other factors such as electronic or mechanical problems couldn't be ruled out, the Times said.

    The sheriff's probe reportedly revealed an employee of the car dealership that lent the Lexus to Saylor had been warned about the sudden acceleration problem three days before the crash by another customer who had been using the same car.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    other factors such as electronic or mechanical problems couldn't be ruled out,

    Lol, that could be a much longer list of things you couldn't rule out. Another article about SPECULATION, so nothing new.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Speculation yes. By those we pay to investigate these things. Another big waste of tax dollars. Which I believe you and I share common ground. I personally feel it was the oversized floor mat that is to blame. I am learning to accept, that we will probably never know why he did not or could not shift into neutral.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I was having a lot of trouble picturing how the floor mat could entrap the accelerator until I saw that pic that was posted earlier. At this point I would tend to agree with you about the mats.

    The wasting of tax dollars is so rampant that it is almost meaningless at this point. I am afraid we are past the point of no return. I don't have any answers there.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >other factors such as electronic or mechanical problems couldn't be ruled out,
    :blush: :P

    >we will probably never know why he did not or could not shift into neutral.

    And we'll never know if he tried to shift into neutral, some would have us believe.
    :) :shades:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    Not that it necessarily matters, but I believe the account of this incident stated that the man's brother-in-law was in the passenger's seat.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >that the man's brother-in-law was in the passenger's seat.

    He was probably calling to the back seat, "Hold on Honey..." if I recall what he said. :blush:

    Actually having an adult male in the passenger seat makes it even more interesting that the car wouldn't have gotten into neutral because he would possibly be a more likely candidate to help move the shift lever, "Help me get this darn thing into neutral, Joe, It won't quit accelerating." Or to help pull the mat from under the accelerator.

    Another interesting _nonspeculative_ question is had this driver had an ES350 version from the dealership before? If it were not new to this driver then he knew how to get it into neutral if it cooperated when the shift lever was moved.

    Or how far had he driven it after picking it up from the dealership? How many times had he parked it and moved that shift lever? The records about his knowledge of a similar car would be very interesting.

    Has anyone seen that information discussed?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    I have not been able to find the original story I read that stated the man's brother-in-law was in the passenger seat, but he was in the car. I thought, too, that perhaps a man would have longer arms and more strength than the average woman and might have had a better chance of pulling the floor mat back, but we don't know if they thought of trying that.

    I found this news site that gives the transcript of the 911 call:

    http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Santee-CHP-officer-Saylor-killed-Lexus- -accelerator/AzYjOhtvFE2mIuxTtxrK4Q.cspx?p=2

    There is also a link to the audio of the call, but I didn't want to listen to that. Those poor people.

    Here is another interesting site I stumbled on that has a lot of info on unintended acceleration: http://www.safetyresearch.net/2009/07/20/sudden-acceleration/
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,720
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    "Toyota switched to a drive-by-wire system in 2002 to provide better performance and greater fuel economy. However, the new system did away with any mechanical linkage, leaving complete control to car’s onboard computer. Although more efficient than a standard throttle system, the all-electronic system opened the door for major malfunctions.

    "The NHTSA has investigated Toyota eight times for unintended acceleration, but has only considered the electronic throttle in two of those cases. During the first probe, the NHTSA asked Toyota’s throttle supplier to investigate the possibility of a faulty electronic throttle. Not surprisingly, the supplier found nothing wrong with the unit. During the second investigation, the NHTSA found that a magnetic field could cause a sudden 1,000 RPM spike in engine speed, but reported the electronic throttle “showed no vulnerabilities to electric signal activities” in its findings.

    "Moreover, Toyota has issues three service bulletins involving its drive-by-wire system, the most recent warning the system could “exhibit a surging during light throttle input at speeds between 38 mph and 42 mph.”"

    "Additionally, a glitch in the system wouldn’t necessarily throw an error code to the car’s computer, leaving the defect virtually untraceable.

    "Whatever the case, there seems to be far more to Toyota’s unintended acceleration problems than just a set of faulty floor mats — especially considering many of the cases involved vehicles with the floor mats already removed."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A person down the street has a Tacoma with the most obnoxious headlights. Studies have proved they are a hazard to oncoming traffic. Why are they still allowed?

    Driving requires effective coordination of visual, motor, and cognitive skills. Visual skills are pushed to their limit at night by decreased illumination and by disabling glare from oncoming headlights. High intensity discharge (HID) headlamps project light farther down roads, improving their owner’s driving safety by increasing the time available for reaction to potential problems. Glare is proportional to headlamp brightness, however, so increasing headlamp brightness also increases potential glare for oncoming drivers, particularly on curving two lane roads. This problem is worse for older drivers because of their increased intraocular light scattering, glare sensitivity, and photostress recovery time. An analysis of automobile headlights, intraocular stray light, glare, and night driving shows that brightness rather than blueness is the primary reason for the visual problems that HID headlights can cause for older drivers who confront them. The increased light projected by HID headlights is potentially valuable, but serious questions remain regarding how and where it should be projected.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1771460/

    The worst are Toyota, Lexus and BMW. Another neighbor has an Escalade that does not seem to be as intense to my eyes. HID kits are illegal from what I can find.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In the Prius ( of this I'm certain ) and for the other DBW vehicles ( I believe ) shifting from Drive to Reverse or Park at any speed defaults into Neutral.

    Try it. I have.


    Thanks.

    But I trust you. :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    we now know that the sheriff's dept. is not sure whether it was the AW floor mats, or the all-weather floor mats and the ECU drive-by-wire system. Is anything else involved that we can throw in to the mix to make the homework assignment seem even more daunting?

    So are we any closer to just naming the AW floor mats as the culprit? Or is it a tie that goes to the runner...still? Who's steering the Titanic as we contemplate our navels, here? Sheesh, this is forward progress?

    I think we're making more progress here on Edmunds News and Views...it's the AW floor mats! ;)

    Anyone want to vote AW floor mats? Or ECU drive-by-wire and floor mats?

    I vote for the floor mats by theirselves.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Sorry, Amigo, I can't agree with the floor mats as the cause.

    Like I have posted several times, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that a grown man cannot manage to pull up a stuck floor mat when the options are:

    1. Leave it and die, or
    2. Pull it up and live.

    There is just no scenario I can realistically imagine which would prevent a grown man, WITH DEATH AS HIS OTHER OPTION, from reaching down and pulling out the "stuck" floor mat.

    One of the stories said the other grown adult was the front seat passenger? That just strengthens my resolve in being stubborn and saying that he would have said, "Hold the wheel while I pull this mat out - it's jamming the pedal !!!!"

    Had to be something other than ONLY the stuck floor mat. Had to be.

    No other situation makes any sense at all.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Definitely the floor mats...and panic.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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