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The best performer was the Fusion by a good margin. Solid new design and new hybrid model.
The 'Winners'..Fusion & Sonata...increased sales in a down market
OK performers...Camry & Malibu ... the Malibu took sales from the Camry
The 'Losers'...Sebring, Altima, Accord ... these three lost more than they should have essentially feeding the growth of the Fusion and Sonata.
the padding under the gas pedal is being removed or thinned out;
the gas pedal itself is being shaved;
However the interesting info that I learned today is that on its own Toyota is reflashing the logic of the ECU that controls the throttle input as an added precaution. When the brake pedal is depressed for a certain period of time the throttle is shut to idle. IOW it's retro-fitting 'smart pedals' on vehicles currently in service.
I understand from members on PC that this has already been added to the Gen 3 Prius but I can't confirm that since I haven't tried it myself. I'll have to wait until my next oil change to see what changes are done.
I wonder how many people are going to be calling for a tow after their Toyota quits moving unexpectedly in the middle of town?
These would be the same folks who use the brake pedal as a place to rest their left foot and wonder why they have to get new pads every year.
We'll have to add unintended deceleration to the auto lexicon.
That Chrysler van being marketed as a VW is a real head scratcher.
I can't imagine Chrysler dropping vans. They'd be dead. One might argue that they already are.
I wanna sue somebody. I had my bowling ball by my feet and it rolled over and pressed on the brake pedal while I was going down the highway and I lost all power and I couldn't figure out what happened .... that's when I got hit in the rear.
Hyundai rescued Kia after Kia's bankruptcy filling in 1997, and acquired 51% of Kia in 1998. Hyundai has since divested some of its investment in Kia, and now owns less than 40% of Kia. So, one could say that Hyundai is - sort of - the parent company of Kia, and not vice versa. Hyundai is the one with deep pockets, not Kia which is a much smaller company than Hyundai.
The Kia Sedona continues with a redesign for 2010, but Hyundai ceased production on their Entourage minivan in April 2009.
It will be retroactive on all the vehicles requiring 0W-20 synthetic beginning with the 2010 Prius and 2010 Camry. For those that purchased one of these vehicles and already paid for the 5000 mi oil change a coupon for a free oil change on Toyota should be coming in the mail or by email.
The official notices are going out to the dealers this month. Not every dealer may be aware of it.
Why is it that Toyota's standard setting world vehicle the Land Cruiser is sold in the US with the same GM crap running gear in it as their American Suburban Sequoia and American Pick up? Yet any where else in the world they sell the Land Cruiser with a very - very respected diesel with totally different running gear? Perhaps they have figured out US buyers are stupid and will pay 60+K for a bastardized Landcruiser filled with crap?
The US really doesn't have any leading edge car makers anymore - we get the cheapest - tried and tested version they can pass off. Toyota is no better than GM or Ford and in some ways much worse given they are still living in the 80's when their cars were simple and ran forever with virtually no issues.
Look at the top rated car companies and the top selling companies and you'll see a trend - all their products usually fairly limited regarding the number of products they sell but they also tend to be fairly strait forward and simple vehicles that simply work - and work very well. Subaru, Hyundai and Honda come to mind for the most part their core products are all very simple vehicles that do exactly what they were intended to do with little to no issues.
Look at Mercedes Benz back in the early 80's they built simple really well built cars that ran and ran and ran. Now they build rolling electronic gizmos that break just sitting in the parking lot and their reliability and brand image as a solid car has gone into the crapper.
Any time a small simple builder who has developed a solid reliability and reputation starts adding fancy crap to their products their image takes a nose dive. Toyota has finally hit the point where enough of their cars are full of fancy crap they are facing the same issue all the other builders before them have run into - the more fancy crap you put in a car the more stuff you have that can break.
There's a contradiction in your post. You complain about domestic makers offering tried and tested versus cars with leading edge technology, yet you praise Subaru and Honda for simple dependable vehicles. Then you go on and complain about vehicles laden with complex technology. Today's cars are full of fancy gizmos because that's what the buying public wants. Which is it that you want? Simple dependability or leading edge technology? I'm sure all manufacturers are capable of making cars that are agriculturallly simple, but I doubt many people would enjoy driving a tractor on a daily basis.
Fancy Crap? You lost me. That is the problem with the auto industry? What do mean by "Fancy crap"?
Subaru, Hyundai and Honda seem to have the same fancy crap as all the the others.
Fun tidbit: the best of those four was the only domestic - Ford, at -16% for the year.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100105/RETAIL01/100109984/1- - 400#
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Chrysler sold only 931,402 units in 2009. The last time its sales were under 1 million was in 1962, the year of the infamous "plucked chickens."
I don't see the Mazda, Kia or Dodge [minivans] going away.
Hyundai dropped their minivan, but Kia is in a position to smurf theirs up. They may not take much market share from the Odyssey or Sienna but they could be number three. Just keep the long warranty and improve the mpg.
But right now Toyota is really putting the heat on Honda with all the available trim levels in the upcoming Sienna. Besides the hybrid option, they could even sell a few more if they offered a 5 speed manual. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
2011 Toyota Sienna - First Drive
IOW.....
Now you are mostly right about NA not getting the best that each maker can deliver..depending on the segment that you're discussing.
Sub compacts...Yep
Compacts........ Yep
Midsizers........ Yep
Small Trucks... Yep
Full Sized Trucks...No way
Full Sized SUVs....No way
Hybrids.......... Nope.
Crossovers.... Maybe / maybe not
The reason that we don't get the best vehicles in the small and medium car segments is that WE won't pay the price that other markets will pay. Are you ready to pay $25000 for a Corolla or Astra or Fiesta? Hell no. We want our econo-boxes dirt cheap at $16000 to $18000. Well there's no magic pixie dust that can put the content of a $25000 vehicle into a $17000 vehicle.
Every fan site from every maker complains that Europe gets all the best models and that NA gets the junk. That's because WE won't pay the price.
BTW...if you now felt it was your goal in life to persuade the auto makers that the US buying public is ready to pay $25000 for compact cars like the Corolla and $30000+ for a Camry and $40000+ for a Prius...you'd have my undying gratitude and support.... :shades: . Have at it.
Don't know where you live. But I live in Northeast Ohio and they did have a Corolla XRS on the show room floor today for $26,000+ and a couple of Camry's for $33,000+ :shades:
It was a nice little car, but just didn't seem like a $20-22K car to me. Typical American mentality, I guess. :P
90+% of Corollas are MSRP'd at $17985 - $750 rebate
75% of Camry's are MSRP'd at $22850 - $750 rebate
Yep the XRS at $26000 is an indication of what European drivers often spend their money on.
The Prius is the one exception but it is a hatchback and it does get 50-ish MPG in normal conditions.
If everyone here kept their cars 12-15 years, they probably wouldn't mind ante'ing up for a $25K Corolla provided it was WORTH $25K in interior materials, reliability, and features.
I noticed the 2011 Sienna review mentioned that hard plastics will now be the norm in that model on the upper part of the door below the windowsill, which is another step backwards for Toyota, as the current model has a soft-touch plastic/vinyl there. And that's exactly where you will rest your arm any time the window is open....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Really? I was under the impression that Europe had really strict emissions and safety inspections that made it really cost-prohibitive to keep a car on the road for a long time, which would encourage people to trade up more often. Or is that Japan I'm thinking of?
I noticed the 2011 Sienna review mentioned that hard plastics will now be the norm in that model on the upper part of the door below the windowsill, which is another step backwards for Toyota, as the current model has a soft-touch plastic/vinyl there. And that's exactly where you will rest your arm any time the window is open....
Actually...that might not be TOO bad. When I hang my arm out the window, it's usually resting primarily on the rubber window seals, whatever trim might be on the outside, or even the outside sheetmetal. Not so much whatever happens to be on the inside. I've had plenty of cars where the upper part of the interior door panel is hard. On the Dodge Darts I had and my '57 Desoto, that part is actually metal! It's plastic on my '85 Silverado. And even on the plush '85 LeSabre i got from my grandmother, the upper part was fake woodgrain (aka...plastic).
On the 2000 Intrepid I had, it had fabric on the door panels that went all the way up to the window. I thought that was a nice touch. Heck, how often do you even see fabric on a door panel anymore? It's usually just a hard plastic slab, or, vinyl at best. However, over age, that fabric at the upper part of the door panel was starting to show some wear, and a bit of fading. I think vinyl would hold up better in this regard, but hard plastic should hold up forever (although it can fade over time)
However, even though I'm here touting the advantages of hard plastic, I do prefer cloth, vinyl, or even soft-touch plastic. Even if hard plastic will wear better, it usually makes a car look cheap.
Lets look at GM again - how many SUV's do they sell that are actually all one SUV? Isn't that new Caddy SUV just a jazzed up Saturn they just canceled?
Parts lets talk parts Ok so GM parts bin or same supplier what difference does it make? Toyota finally shut down the Fremont CA line they were building Toyota trucks right next to GM trucks yes - they were sharing parts.
Did you know that toyota is talking to or in the process of having Subaru's Indiana plant build the Camery? This might actually help Toyota given Subaru's Indiana plant seems to have pretty decent record right now.
In the long run there is no top auto maker only those who offer simpler options and will see a bump in their reliability status as a result.
For every 1 subaru sold with the flat 6 and all the gizmos Subaru sells 10 pretty basic 4 bangers - its a pretty fair bet that Subaru will continue to see pretty good reliability and consumer satisfaction ratings.
Dodge took this approach with their trucks - they addressed the interior quality issues but kept all their tried and true running gear - did you know that the 6spd manual tends to command a higher used truck price than the auto? It does - mainly because it doesn't really break and has less to go wrong with it than the auto. I bet Dodge sees a boost in their ratings as a result.
Cutting edge vs full of gizmos two different things. Direct injection gas engines finally we are getting them though most builders are simply opting for upping the hp and only seeing modest to no gain in milege. How about DI engines and lighter/stronger structures and sizable increases in milege? Naw that wouldn't really be a smart investment. Whats the price of oil today? 80+? And the economy is just starting to show signs of recovery.
From 1999 til now the Camry with an MSRP of $20500 now should have an MSRP of $24600. But for that $24600 price you would have..
..a 2.2L engine getting 125 HP and real world fuel economy of 30 MPG on the Highway.
..two airbags, no VSC and no Trac Ctl
..AM/FM radio, single CD and casette player
..a vehicle the size of today's Corolla
..very few other options ( Leather, SR, 6 disc player )
However for $22850 today a buyer gets..
..a 2,5L engine getting 169 HP and real world fuel economy of 35 MPG on the Highway
..7 airbags, VSC and TRAC
..AM/FM CD, AUX, SAT opt
..a smoother quieter roomier ride
..more options
Something has to give...$25000 into $23000 just doesn't go. That's business.
The NUMMI plant has nothing to do with the Land Cruiser.
Toyota did buy GM's ownership of Subaru. Welcome to 2008!! They've been making Camry's there all during 2009.
How can you touch on every maker in the universe in one post..plus the price of oil? What has this got to do with Toyota? I think that your meds rolled under the bed.
Today, I see the base Corolla (no longer called "CE") base prices for $17K with shipping, and has a TMV of $16K, which, out the door, would probably come to around $17000-17500?
Adjusted for inflation, that $16K in 2002 would probably be around $19500-$20,000 today. Somehow I get the feeling that would almost get you into a basic Camry, Accord, or Altima these days.
Just out of curiosity, has there been much more content added to new Corolla, compared to 2003?
I own a subaru - toyota landcruiser and a VW. My close family owns Ford and GM. I'm just tired of the same old crap from all the auto makers which is probably why my cars are all 10+ years old and so far there is nothing much of interest I feel like spending my money on to replace them.
The only two cars to peak my interest is the MB ML CDI and the Audi Q7 TD but both makers fill these vehicles full of extra crap and have some of the worst maint and reliability records you can find. Toss all the crap that breaks give me a vehicle that gets good milege and little issues thats all any of us need and based on the consumer reports thats about all people really want.
Most people in the US don't know that BMW and MB sell normal every day vehicles in the UK. But here in the states we have this PR driven BS concept that MB and BMW are some sort of special high end product.
Sure people spend more for their smaller cars in the UK but they get a good product in return. US consumers associate size with price not content hence the "I won't spend over 18K for that little 4dr" I keep my cars till they wear out and like to own cars that have proven they aren't rolling POS.
Why do people spend 2+K for that huge nav unit in the middle of the dash? Now days they can pick up a far superior unit for $200 better yet a smart phone etc. A smart builder would simply make a storage spot with power supply which can be closed when not in use - shoot this would actually increase the builders satisfaction level given people would not be complaining about the crummy NAV system. Plus 8yrs from purchase that built in system is archaic and just a big useless piece of junk taking up space in the dash. Vs you have a new smart phone or updated little GPS with all the latest cool stuff.
Again the auto makers right now are just doing the same old crap my hope is that the 2012 predicted big auto year has some fresh new stuff hit the market.
..the additional safety features that are now required..6 airbags, VSC, TRAC, AHR's
..the current 1.8L 2ZR engine is the same size as the previous gen 1.8L 1ZZ engine which dated from 1997. The new 1.8L is a generation newer with somewhat more power but it's much smoother and it gets WAY better fuel economy than the last gen 1.8L
..the vehicle has more sound damping material in it and it's wider inside to make it more comfortable.
..the seats have a manual adjustment whereas they were fixed before
..the steering wheel is both tilt and telescoping
..the audio options are better
Germany does have TUV regulations which are fairly strict by our standards, but they're not nearly as onerous as the Japanese shaken. The TUV seem to be designed to keep people from attempting to drive ratty Communist-bloc beaters on the autobahn more than anything else.
You want a simple little car there are plenty to choose from - you want a solid family hauling mule with good milege that gets abused - bruised and used your choices are virtually zip. And no a mini van won't haul our boat or take us to our favorite campsite not with out a visit to the dealer for a few grand in repairs.
The bottom line there is no money to be made on cars that don't have nav/ laser cruise control / full panara roof etc etc.
The only Truck that Toyota ever built that was really great was the T100. If you look at any of the Tacoma's or Tundra's they have issue's like frame rot, Pathetic gas mileage ect. I wish they would build their trucks like the T100 again.
http://www.ridelust.com/how-to-kill-a-toyota-truck-video/
How to kill a Toyota.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&source=hp&q=how+to+kill+a+toyota&um=1&- ie=UTF-8&ei=NTRFS9HOM8HBlAeylYwN&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ve- d=0CBMQqwQwAA#
From 1999 til now the Camry with an MSRP of $20500 now should have an MSRP of $24600. But for that $24600 price you would have..
..a 2.2L engine getting 125 HP and real world fuel economy of 30 MPG on the Highway.....
is a false premise. The $20K in 1999 bought you a class-competitive engine with class-competitive fuel economy and performance. Feature content has always been spartan for the money in lower-trim Camrys since the early 90s, and continues to be so today.
But for my $24,6 in today's dollars, I should expect a class-competitive powertrain (and with the new 2.5L and 3.5L engines and 6-speed autos I can finally get that as of this model year) and fuel economy. The fact that I can get that for $20K or so is a symptom of what you and I agreed on: that Americans won't pay more for their volume cars. And we get shorted on interior materials, parts quality, etc as a result, in a torrent of cost-cutting that happens so they can try and meet those pricing goals for North America.
As a result, we STILL don't have DI in any Toyota except the Lexus models (2011 Sienna to have it though, and possibly the Venza has it now? I would have to check), feature content is as spartan as ever, safety features considered industry-standard for some time have only recently become so across the Toyota line, etc etc. There still isn't a factory stereo worth having in ANY Toyota car or truck, even the $40K ones. You have to look to Lexus for the desirable stereos and features, and those cars START at $35K.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
At the moment, the Tacoma rules the midsize segment. The Frontier and Dakota, all redesigned haven't kept up, the Ranger is older than dirt (good truck btw) and the el cheapo Colorado/Canyon were never competitive right out of the gate in 2004. For a time (not sure how it is now) dealers were selling Tundras for less than Tacomas!
Lastly, (correct me if I'm wrong somebody) I believe the T-100 was built on the same frame as the Tacoma that made the recall list last year. And Toyota took a bath on all those Tacos tat they bought back by offering 150% of the resale value. Probably settled a lot of the anger from these owners.
I live in Maryland, about 10-15 miles east of DC, so our winters aren't TOO terrible. Still, give 'em enough time, and the cars will rust. A few weeks ago, my uncle wanted to dump some leftover deer parts in my back yard. He had them in a cooler. He drove his '97 Silverado into the back field, and as soon as he went off the driveway he got stuck. I got a chain and my '85 Silverado, and drove back there to try and pull him out. When I got under his truck to attach the chain, I was shocked to see that his '97 has more rust under there than my '85! :surprise:
My '85 is rusting in the body, mainly. Lower doors, rocker panels, a bit at the fender bottoms, etc. Yet the frame itself it still pretty solid. However, his '97 seems to be doing just the opposite...body still looks nice and shiny, with no rust except under the front edge of the hood, where it rubs on the header. But underneath, the frame is getting awfully scaly. I have a feeling my '85 is going to out-live that truck.
GM has the Astra in Europe which is a winner. To bring it here they had to decontent it to the point that it can't sell and it died with Saturn.
Ford has the same issues with it's smaller autos.
As to the level of quality of the interiors that's really subjective. I for one am more concerned by reliability than by the sense or feel of the interior accomodation. Since I beat the heck out of my vehicles driving 35000 mi annually I don't care much for the touch and feel nicities. Spartan is OK. But I recognize that these are simply my own preferences.
But then I see sales numbers. The Corolla nameplate passed the Accord nameplate this year for No 2 auto in the US. The Accord is a very nicely appointed vehicle with a near-class-leading interior. The Camry is pulling farther and farther away from the Accord. Hey, maybe the general buying public is not so interested in knock-yer-lights-out interiors.
Here's another point that confirms my feeling..for every sparkling new vehicle purchased with immaculate interior and exterior the US buying public purchases 2 USED vehicles with somebody else's spills, burns, cuts, wears and dents already present.
BTW on the sound system issue you point out. I've found that using an MP3 player or iPOD makes every Toyota system sound great. I love the quality of the music from the very basic sound system in my Prius when my MP3 is connected; the JBL system is even better yet. However the CD player and radio are so-so at best.
My FIL has a '95 Tahoe that is beginning to rust outon the inside bottom of all of the doors including the tailgate. After this winter, it will probably get really bad.
Camry and Corolla fleet sales = 12-13% of total sales
Accord and Civic fleet sales = less than 2%
Taking that into account, the Accord was a much better retail seller than Corolla (to individual customers, not rental companies) and very close to Camry, and Civic came pretty close to Corolla too.
I am surprised that being in your car for 35K miles every year, you aren't concerned with the interior comfort and materials, but again I think we agree that yes, this is one of the major areas where Toyota cuts costs, and yes, this problem is systemic throughout the industry in under-$25K autos. That same North American vs European problem rearing its ugly head...
As for MP3 vs CD, I think the stereo should have good sound quality with the installed CD player, and should not only sound good using an auxiliary music source. Call me crazy. In fact, it should sound good with broadcast radio too, especially if it has HD capability (another thing Toyota has been very slow to offer as a standard feature).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Whale activists say their catamaran was sunk by Japanese vessel (CNN)
As for audio quality, I am also quite happy with the JBL systems on both of my Camrys. Admittedly, I'm not an audiophile, so your opinion may vary.
I'd love it if HD radio was available standard but in fact after becoming attached to my MP3 I've found that I don't want to listen to what the stations want to choose for me to hear. For some reason it annoys me now. I switch over to NPR first.
What I find ironic, is issues with Toyota are always shuffled under the rug. The true Toyota believers like to show the numbers as an excuse for the problems. Well I don't see 6+million VW's being recalled World Wide.
Typical Toyota in snow country: