Toyota on the mend?

imidazol97 · January 2010

There's another forum about the Toyota massive recalls and people questioning if it's just a little pedal size problem or more to it than that.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1f5fe5/25#MSG25

Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

dieselone · January 2010

I don't know of any fuel injected engine that doesn't have a rev limiter, maybe the TBI systems back in the 80's and early 90's didn't, but I think anything built during the past 15 years certainly does. Even my boat has one and it has a low tech GM v8 with MPI fuel injection.

I know my Expedition will only rev to about 2800 rpm in park or neutral with my foot to the floor.

fintail · January 2010

I see the Prius isn't on the list, as those can't accelerate intended or otherwise. :shades:

dieselone · January 2010

I see the Prius isn't on the list, as those can't accelerate intended or otherwise. :shades:

LOL

larsb · January 2010

I see you've never driven one. They accelerate just fine.

andre1969 · January 2010

I don't know of any fuel injected engine that doesn't have a rev limiter, maybe the TBI systems back in the 80's and early 90's didn't, but I think anything built during the past 15 years certainly does. Even my boat has one and it has a low tech GM v8 with MPI fuel injection.

Believe it or not, my Park Ave Ultra doesn't have a rev limiter. Unless it's been disabled? I tried stomping the gas and then shifting into neutral and it just kept revving. I let off when it got to around 5200 rpm, which is about where the yellow zone on the tach starts. Unless the limiter doesn't kick in until it's about to redline?

I tried it once on my 2000 Intrepid, and IIRC the rev limiter held it around 3500-3800 rpm.

I was actually surprised that the Park Ave didn't have a rev limiter, considering the comparatively lowly Intrepid did. But then, I've found that the Intrepid did a few other niceties that the Park Ave didn't. Have I mentioned the cupholders? :P

dieselone · January 2010

Believe it or not, my Park Ave Ultra doesn't have a rev limiter. Unless it's been disabled? I tried stomping the gas and then shifting into neutral and it just kept revving. I let off when it got to around 5200 rpm, which is about where the yellow zone on the tach starts. Unless the limiter doesn't kick in until it's about to redline?

I can't imagine a supercharged 3800 doesn't have a rev limiter. I bet it's in the redline area. Every fuel injected car I've ever owned has had one. It's usually a few hundred rpm past the redline on the tach.

dieselone · January 2010

I see you've never driven one. They accelerate just fine.

I don't need to drive one. Anything over 10 seconds to 60 is slow in my opinion.

fintail · January 2010

I'll admit it, I have never driven one. I like driving.

But I have seen enough insane freeway merges by those things to have some idea.

andre1969 · January 2010

But I have seen enough insane freeway merges by those things to have some idea.

Priuses are probably more capable of merging than what you're seeing. However, their drivers are probably paying too much attention to the instant mpg readout on their trip computer, all in the name of hypermiling, instead of paying attention to tractor-trailer enema they're about to receive...

stever · January 2010

The Prius drives fine and scoots along nicely. You should go check one out for grins.

lemko · January 2010

I'm sure they do - like any motivated tortoise.

stever · January 2010

I bet you couldn't even keep up with Al Gore Jr. :P

Honda is trying hard to keep up with the Prius.

Honda CEO Challenges Staff to Develop Hybrid That Beats Fuel Economy of Prius (Green Car Advisor)

andre1969 · January 2010

Honda is trying hard to keep up with the Prius.

Shouldn't be too hard of a task. It can be done with a little ingenuity...

stever · January 2010

That's a Colt, right?

You guys are dodging the issue.

fintail · January 2010

I'd probably get shot in a road rage incident holding up some thug while dilly-dallying around with the ICE geek displays. :shades:

I somehow doubt its driving dynamics are exactly enthusiast-grade.

Andre is likely right...the things can probably go faster than the some owners want to go...no matter the line of cars they are obstructing while trying to save 1mpg for a 20 second period while merging onto a highway.

houdini1 · January 2010

LOL, you owe me a new keyboard !! I blew coke all over mine !!

andre1969 · January 2010

no matter the line of cars they are obstructing while trying to save 1mpg for a 20 second period while merging onto a highway.

I wonder how much fuel you really save when merging, by not merging in as fast? For instance, if you need to get from 0-60, I think a Prius can do that in about 10.2 seconds (the current one might be quicker). So basically, floor it for 10.2 seconds, and then you're up at 60, merged into traffic, and you can let off and just coast.

But, say you dawdle and take 20 seconds to get up to 60. That means 20 seconds of accelerating, versus 10.2, and that 9.8 extra seconds would have otherwise been used just loafing along at cruising speed. So yeah, you'd save a little fuel, but I wonder how much, really?

stever · January 2010

I never thought much of those 0 to 60 numbers. Except for those signal controlled on ramps, most of us merge from 30 to 60mph. Around here it's more like going from 50 to 65mph.

When you do have to merge from a signal or a backed up on ramp, chances are you're only going to have to get to 30 mph to meet the speed of the rest of the traffic.

The only time I floor it from zero to 60 is when I have a rental car.

fintail · January 2010

I suspect a lot of dawdling-hypermiling tricks aren't very effective. And even if some work, the fuel savings is negated by all of the people pissed off by the slowpoke who floor it to get around them at the first chance.

Around here, few on-ramps don't have a light at the entrance...so getting on the ramp is from a crawl or stop. The local way to merge is to get up to about 35-40 by the time the ramp ends, then accelerate to highway speed in the next quarter mile or so - to heck with anyone behind you. Oh yeah, and maybe actually brake as you enter the highway, out of timidness and fear. Certain vehicles - Lexus, Camrollas, and non sporty Subarus are especially good at this.

gagrice · January 2010

The freeway entrance I use the most is an uphill circle with an off camber and 30 MPH sign. It is very short before you are on Interstate 8. The speed limit is 70 MPH. Accelerating uphill to avoid cutting anyone off is a challenge with my V8 Sequoia. If at all possible people go to the left lane when passing that on ramp as it is a bottle neck. The slow cars like the Prius have to huff and puff to get up to 70 MPH on that long uphill grade. My gutless PU is so slow I just stay on the frontage road which gets me to the same place only slower. I wish the gutless econoboxes would do the same.

larsb · January 2010

That's not a Prius problem. It's a poor ramp design.

I have merged a lot in a Prius as a passenger, and we never had an issue.

"Nothing to see here folks, move along."

gagrice · January 2010

You're a flat lander man. Not all of America is as flat as Phoenix. A car that does not have the HP to merge safely on any highway the owner drives, should not be allowed on that road. Ticket them for unsafe merging. Or sell them a Toyota with WOT. :shades:

larsb · January 2010

Wrongo, mi amigo.

People already on the road just need to "slow down" a second and accommodate the slower merging vehicle.

Happens hundreds of thousands of times worldwide every day.

You just live in "rude driver" California where everyone looks after themselves ONLY when they are in their little metal cocoon.

fintail · January 2010

Don't the rules of the road say the merging vehicle has to yield to those already on the road? Get up to speed before you hit the highway, or take the side roads. It's that easy.

Of course, it's not so much of an issue if you are can match the speed of the vehicles on the road by the time the ramp ends...which some oblivious souls for some reason flatly refuse to do.

houdini1 · January 2010

I have lived in several states and I was pleasantly surprised at how courteous the drivers were when I lived in San Francisco.

ajvdh · January 2010

What about trucks? Lots of entrance ramps are too short for a semi to get up to the 75 MPH speed limit around here. So now they're not allowed on the highway? If I'm towing, my pickup won't make that speed either. So am I to take surface roads wherever I go?

gagrice · January 2010

Semi tractor trailers and people pulling trailers are bigger offenders than Prius drivers. Slow drivers can be a bigger hazard than speeders.

andre1969 · January 2010

If I see a big truck, bus, someone pulling a trailer, or something I identify as an obviously slow car that just can't make it, I'll try my best to cut them some slack. FWIW, if I'm coming up on a merge lane, I'll move over to the left if I can safely do it. But if I can't, and I see someone trying to merge on, I'll either slow down to let them in, or speed up to get past them, whichever is best suited to that situation.

However, one thing I absolutely hate, is when somone tries to merge on, paying more attention to their cell phone call or sexting or whatever, and they don't make the slightest attempt to speed up to the flow of traffic. And bonus points if they're in a car that's powerful enough that it could merge with no effort.

Also, I don't care about slow drivers, as long as they keep to the right to let faster traffic pass, and as long as they can keep up with the posted minimum speed (usually 45 mph on limited access roads)

lilengineerboy · January 2010

RE: Prius

I'll admit it, I have never driven one. I like driving.

But I have seen enough insane freeway merges by those things to have some idea.

I've driven one...alot. Its painful. Okay, maybe not painful...frustrating? Actually around town in heavy traffic its fine, since you can't go very fast anyway. I think the low point was when I got passed by minivans trying to get over HWY 17 from San Jose to Santa Cruz. And forget about any up-hill onramp.

lilengineerboy · January 2010

The Detroit auto show is going on right now and went down with some friends to check it out. It was a weird experience compared to years past. There weren't many cars there and there weren't many people there either. Toyota had basically the whole back of the room for Scion, Toyota and Lexus. It was interesting to see what they brought to the show.
They and a Scion tC and xD and a base base Yaris, Matrix and Corolla, and then the trucks were along the back and the new Sienna (which looks better than the old one for the most part), a couple EV concept cars, and then it was into the Lexus stuff. There were a few Venzas out there too. I don't remember seeing a Camry but I am sure it was there. The thing that was weird was that the display was mostly empty. The crowd was gathered around some display with this guy doing some type of game-show thing.
GM had a crowd around the Camaro and Corvette area, and traffic through the Cadillac booth. Mercedes and Ford were packed. I gave up trying to get to sit the Fiesta. Honda didn't have any SI cars, but they did have their new AMC Eagle. There wasn't anything that made me want to run out and buy something, or even something to lust after (well, okay the Lotus Elise was pretty sweet - and that has a Toyota motor so it counts, right?). I think cars just became a commodity item.

gagrice · January 2010

Toyota has done more to make cars an appliance than any other automaker. They cannot stand anyone having fun driving. I thought Matrix was history?

iluvmysephia1 · January 2010

you all were taught to slow down in the right-hand lane if necessary to let mergers come in. If you need to. larsb is correct on that one. andre's already practicing that kind of safe driving.

And steve, that Colt ain't your father's Mitsubishi. :P

kernick · January 2010

People already on the road just need to "slow down" a second and accommodate the slower merging vehicle.

But that wastes fuel for everyone else, because there is no regenerative braking on 99% of cars. If I and everyone else has to slowdown to accomodate 1 car, that 1 car has caused a loss in mpg for everyone else, as we're going to have to reaccelerate. It is very inefficient to have people brake-accelerate-brake-accelerate.

Happens hundreds of thousands of times worldwide every day.

And thus that's partially why you see most cars have City mpg so much lower than their Highway mpg. Braking, reaccelerating, and driving in lower than your highest gear are not very good for mpg.

andre1969 · January 2010

But that wastes fuel for everyone else, because there is no regenerative braking on 99% of cars. If I and everyone else has to slowdown to accomodate 1 car, that 1 car has caused a loss in mpg for everyone else, as we're going to have to reaccelerate. It is very inefficient to have people brake-accelerate-brake-accelerate.

Not necessarily. If you scan far enough ahead and plan for it, you can often just let off the gas pedal and allow the car to gradually slow down, rather than wait till the last second and slam on the brake. And then, when you accelerate back up to your former speed, just do it gradually. Of course, it's not always possible to do this, in areas where the merge lane is too short, or there's not enough visibility so you don't see merging traffic till the last second, etc.

Anyway, until I got my Park Ave Ultra, most of my driving was done in a 1985 Silverado with a 165 hp 305 that would do 0-60 in maybe 12 seconds. Yet the biggest problem I had merging would always come not from the truck's slow acceleration, but from the idiot in front of me in the high-performance car that decides to take his time merging. Or worse...drives to the end of the merge lane and then stops!

houdini1 · January 2010

I give anyone a wide berth when they are driving a mini van and talking on a cell phone, especially in those big mall parking lots.

dieselone · January 2010

Anyway, until I got my Park Ave Ultra, most of my driving was done in a 1985 Silverado with a 165 hp 305 that would do 0-60 in maybe 12 seconds. Yet the biggest problem I had merging would always come not from the truck's slow acceleration, but from the idiot in front of me in the high-performance car that decides to take his time merging. Or worse...drives to the end of the merge lane and then stops!

I agree there. Old ladies seem to be the worst at merging while braking. Just what I need when I'm towing my camper or boat. My foot is usually buried to the floor trying to get up to 60mph then you have some idiot merging a 35mph and people that won't move over for you.

You really see how inconsiderate (stupid) people are when when towing a trailer. I can't tell you how many times someone has cut in front of me while approaching a red light, like I can stop as fast as they can. They are just asking for 6k lbs of SUV + 6k lbs of trailer to be on top of them.

When on the hwy, I try to do what Andre does. If I can get over I do, my 2nd choice is to speed up or slow down, but sometimes you just can't. Same when I'm towing the boat or camper. I'll try to get over, or slow down to let someone in. Speeding up usually isn't much of an option since quick acceleration is not possible.

roho1 · January 2010

good grief, where's the mod?

Stop the moaning about merging or start another thread somewhere. Ann Landers would love this.

lilengineerboy · January 2010

About as boring as most of the vehicles in the thread :P

stever · January 2010

And steve, that Colt ain't your father's Mitsubishi.

Yeah, but that didn't work with my Dodge pun.

Ok, ~~merging~~ moving on....

nippononly · January 2010

Matrix is very much alive, now in gen two, not much different from gen 1 except the interior got even cheaper and if you pay extra you can now get the engine the Camry USED to have...

hackattack5 · January 2010

"Toyota on the mend for 2010?"

Nope
some of their cars are too slow and some seem to be too fast. I think 2010 is a year that Toyota will want to forget

andres3 · January 2010

You are 100% wrong as usual. The drivers on the freeway need not slow down for merging vehicles. They have the right away, merging vehicles do not, and need to find an open spot and meet the speed of traffic or else????

andres3 · January 2010

The only time I floor it from zero to 60 is when I have a rental car.

I think you need to LIVE a little more and have some more FUN while driving. I had a friend floor a '95 Corolla around pretty much every time he accelerated from mile 0 to mile 100,000, and it never had a single mechanical problem or issue.

Of course, I floored my Neon many times and it ended up being a total lemon. So if you have domestic cars, maybe you are better off living life with no fun and babying them.

andres3 · January 2010

I doubt Toyota's engineers lose a wink of sleep over "unintended acceleration." It all comes down to incompetence and negligence. If the accelerator is stuck, unstick it or shift into neutral or turn the car off.

All better decisions than crashing and dying. Again, the ruling on all these accidents is driver error, negligence, and incompetence.

stever · January 2010

Flooring it from zero to 60 means more FUN while driving?

That sounds like fun if you like old iron and straight line driving. I have more fun going up Bogus Basin road - 172 turns in 16 miles, and I rarely hit 45mph.

anythngbutgm · January 2010

Sounds like a dream driving road right there! :surprise:

Lessee, how far away is it from Boston...

stever · January 2010

I should be up there right now, but there's only been one bluebird day in the last month.

Prius challenger?

Ford Fusion Hybrid Beats Toyota Prius as Consumer Favorite Hybrid (AutoObserver)

Meanwhile, production is up ... thanks to Chinese sales.

Toyota, Nissan Boost Global Output on China Sales, U.S. Rebound (Bloomberg)

elias · January 2010

andres3, you seem to continue to misunderstand the nature of the recent recalls/problems on the toyota vehicles. feel free to educate yourself - the data is out there - from Toyota itself as well as NHTSA and the news organizations.
also I hope you are not an engineer yourself, iif you can think we are so crass as to not care about customer safety.

larsb · January 2010

They "need not," sure, I'll go along with that part of it.

But in order to be a better, more considerate driver, they surely should do sowhen the situation calls for it.

Every car on the road is not a 0-60 hot rod, and people need not expect that.

andres3 says, "You are 100% wrong as usual."

Sounds almost like a personal attack, and is of course a ridiculous thing to post. No one on these forums is 100% wrong all the time, especially Yours Truly.

Toyota on the mend?

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