I wonder if part of the fan mentality might come from the fact that GM was #1 for decades, and usually by a wide margin. I can agree with that, they were at the top for a long time.
In contrast Ford was always runner up and had to take that Avis "We're #2, so We Try Harder" mentality. lol, great analogy.
As for Chrysler, well they usually get themselves in trouble about every 10 years anyway, so there are times that it's hard to be a Chrysler fanatic.
So true, and this is what irks me the most about GM fans, they will go on and on about how the fall of their precious company will mean millions of unemployed union workers, millions of families out on the street, basically the fall of the western civilization (cue Lemmy Kilmister :P ) yet here we have Chrysler who up until CH11 was still an American entity and I have yet to hear one voice on these boards claiming the same outcome from its potential demise :confuse: They will also be the first in line to tell you that Fords are worthless pieces of crap. Trust me, I visit here, TN, C&G, GMI, LLN, TOV etc and there are more GM groupies who will trash Ford and Chrysler than there are on any of the import sites. Seriously! They will also pleed for the demise of Toyota, Japan Inc. European brands, whatever for the almighty Government Motors to reign supreme as if it will have zero affect on this Country or the world economy if they disappeared. It's amazing.
I don't know man, I like pretty much every carmaker out there, including the ones not even available in this Country, I can't imagine being that closed minded and biased :lemon:
Andres, you must not know Andre! He has OLD Mopars, classics even. No worry about resale values, and his can be fixed with duct tape and a screwdriver (almost)!
I think the impact of the potential demise of Chrysler now wouldn't be as big as it would've been in 1980 or so, but it would still be a big one. Heck, I would miss Chrysler too as they're my second favorite automaker. I only owned one Chrysler product - a 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue - and it turned out to be one of the best cars I've ever owned.
I do have one Ford vehicle currently in my fleet - a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. There's not much from Ford that really says " I gotta have one" these days. I'd get another Lincoln Town Car if they still made them. The Crown Vic is fleet only and the Grand Marquis is in its last year. The Mustang is nice, but it's not my kind of car. The Taurus is too small.
He recently had a Dodge Intrepid with 148K miles on it which was the victim of an accident, else I'm sure he'd still be driving it until the wheels fell off. I'm surprised he didn't get another Mopar or a Poncho as he seems to be a fan of those makes.
oooo i always wanted a chrysler! how are they anyways you dont hear much about them on these forums....i wanted a dodge journey for my family but after trolling the journey forums and the fact that i am anti cvt tranny, i pulled the trigger on a chev equinox..
anyways back on topic here i really dont agree with ford/gm offering incentives on toyota trade in's. Karma is a beautiful thing and when Toyota gets rolling again they will do the same thing to Ford/GM next time one of them fudges up.
heard a piece on news radio this AM that they fix identified was some kind of shim for the gas pedal asembly? If that is the case, and they don't have to replace the assembly on millions of cars, this recall should be over quick. And technically, the recall doesn't have to fix the problem, they just have to do the action agreed to!
But, like others have said, it seems quite likely this fix might cure one problem, but it isn't the only one.
But, we shall see what happens when when shimmed, trimmed and de-matted Yotas are out on the road!
He recently had a Dodge Intrepid with 148K miles on it which was the victim of an accident, else I'm sure he'd still be driving it until the wheels fell off. I'm surprised he didn't get another Mopar or a Poncho as he seems to be a fan of those makes.
Actually I think something like 150,317 was the final count on that 2000 Intrepid. And the only time in that car's life that it ever saw a tow truck was the day it was towed out of my driveway and out of my life, after I signed it over to the insurance company. It wasn't a perfect car, but it had been a good car over the years.
If I had gone brand-new, I was leaning towards a 2010 Altima, although I would have at least tried out a Fusion, Malibu, and Accord to see how they compared. The Camry, however, just doesn't do it for me.
As for Mopar, the only current products I really like are the Charger and 300, and the Ram trucks. And if I was going new, I was hoping to go a bit more economical than the Intrepid had been, so that sort of ruled any of them out.
Toyota has just hit a bump in the road (no pun intended). Any product produced by human intervention (all products) is subject to a problem at some point. This is not kindergarden, but we all know humans are not perfect, including engineers...at least most of us do. I think Toyota has done the smart, honorable, admirable thing by taking the steps they have to correct this issue. Remember the Tylenol scare several years back when Tylenol pulled all of their products from the shelves? I wouldn't buy anything but Tylenol today. Toyota will get this behind them and regain the consumer confidence they have maintanined for years. Oh by the way...my wife is driving a 2010 Camry bought new in September.
As for Mopar, the only current products I really like are the Charger and 300, and the Ram trucks. And if I was going new, I was hoping to go a bit more economical than the Intrepid had been, so that sort of ruled any of them out.
When I was looking at some of the older vehicles (60s/70s muscle cars) I got acquainted with the GM performance parts website (crate motors, factory hot rod parts). I thought it was a pretty amazing resource. I couldn't find a factory style website from Ford or Chrysler (although in the 80s it was called "direct connection" or something). All those crate engines and head assemblies and stuff were pretty sweet. Chrysler had $20k Hemi motors listed.
I guess Toyota has TuRD, but that is more like Ford's SVT line. I can't pick on TuRD too much, SVT was almost FaRT (Ford Racing Team or Tech or something). Honda doesn't really have anything factory backed, some Mugen stuff - like that special edition Civic SI. Nissan has NISMO, but I don't see them doing alot right now either.
You have a very good point about the way defects are determined to exist. I posed such a question to one of the naysayers here asking if were chairman and CEO of his own car company, how would he handle the daily volume of complaints coming in? (No answer, just crickets chirping.)
Just because an incident was claimed back in 2004, does not mean there was sufficient evidence at the time to conclude that a defect was present. It takes time as you said to discern a pattern in the complaints, and NHTSA has a large staff devoted to sifting through the data. The majority of investigations are closed with "no defect trend found," and a fair number end with the manufacturer stepping in with a voluntary recall.
A poster in another forum said looking at the NHTSA complaints database was confusing because of the "high signal-to-noise" ratio, meaning there's a lot of oddball, even crackpot, complaints in there. I've looked myself, and some of the complaints make you burst out laughing at their incredulity. I guess some people will say anything to take the blame off themselves.
man, if ever there were a time for Ford fans to blow their trumpets and say "I told you so" it would have to be now. A total 2009 profit whilst not borrowing from Uncle Sam? I mean, not taking from Uncle Sam!
Alan Mulally was CEO of Commercial Airplanes at Boeing while I was there. He seemed to get respect back in the late 90's and early 2000's. Nothing too funky coming from his office, just straight-ahead business decisions that were final after leaving his desk. No farting around and trying to get him to change his mind after he's made his mind up, etc. Nothing to really put down as far as those things go.
As far as product line, crikey, Ford has the truck thing down, though GM and Dodge with their popular Ram series has given them some serious competition. But I don't see how one could not want to praise A.Mulally for his handling of Ford through this nasty depressed economic situation in America of late.
I'm taking a half-serious look at a Ford Fusion Hybrid and seeing if it would give Mitsubishi and their proposed Lancer Hybrid any real competion for my new world order automobile spending buck. I am seriously impressed by the Ford Fusion Hybrid and I like it's looks, too. I think Ford has designed a great midsize sedan in the Fusion and they've also designed a great midsize hybrid in the same car. There is a lot to like and respect with Ford for these accomplishments. And quality and reliability awards are ringing in for Ford right now, too. Am I missing anything here? What's not to like about Ford right now. If the body designs were much less than desirable then I could put them down, but IMO they're looking pretty decent. I have bought more Fo-Mo-Co products than any other so if I go back to a Big 2 1/2 product in the future it would most likely be a Ford product.
Sheesh...one could almost shoosh them ahead in to 2011 and give them their hall pass with 5 gold stars stuck to it, eh?
well, lost in the flak of the recall issue, is the product itself. At least for me, no chance I would get one of their cars, especially a Corolla.
C&D came today, and they had a preview of the upcoming Focus. Man, the 5 door is sweet looking. And from the pictures and how they describe it, it will put the Corolla to shame.
Toyota denied there was any accelerator problem for more than five years. Even after a documented sudden acceleration crash that killed four people, Toyota continued to make "inaccurate and misleading" statements about its accelerator defect.
Toyota finally (but reluctantly) acknowledged the problem and issued a massive recall of its vehicles. However, many independent safety experts said Toyota's recall did not go far enough. Even Time magazine said Toyota's recall was not sufficient and would not end the sudden acceleration problem. Consumer Reports found that Toyota had far more sudden acceleration events than any other automaker. Sean Kane -- an independent safety expert with Safety Research & Strategies -- has identified more than 2,100 separate Toyota sudden acceleration events.
Toyota's sudden acceleration problem was not Toyota's only issue this year, just the most publicized. Toyota's problems actually ran much deeper. Toyota was forced to recall thousands of its Tundra pickup trucks for corrosion and rust damage. The federal government is investigating another electronic engine control problem that causes Toyota vehicles to stall out -- literally cutting off power to the engine. Toyota is also under investigation for deaths caused by relay rod failures in Toyota pickup trucks.
Perhaps most telling, a former attorney for Toyota dropped off on the steps of a federal courthouse boxes of documents that Toyota had improperly (perhaps illegally) withheld in lawsuits across the country.
How has Toyota gotten away with such egregious conduct for so long? Are there two sets of rules in this country -- one set for powerful corporations and one set for regular people like you and me?
Imagine that you had a dangerous hole in your front yard. When confronted by safety authorities, you simply said, there's no hole there... and if there is one, it's not really that dangerous. Would city safety officials just so "ok" and let you off the hook?
What if you knew about the hole and didn't warn visitors? What if someone fell into that hole and was hurt or killed? Could you tell authorities there wasn't really a hole there? Could you tell them that the victim must have been distracted or not paying attention when he fell into the hole that wasn't there?
Could you or I get away with such conduct? Why do we continually let giant corporations get away with hurting or killing the very people that buy their products. It is time we hold car makers and other corporations accountable for their conduct. It is time every one -- rich, poor, old, young -- plays under the same set of rules.
Toyota has several ways to try and skin this particular leopard. But this time the anger and public outcry will force them to find some serious fixes to this UA problem. It is not a problem that they're going to be able to run from because it directly involves driver's safety. Big problem that needs a big solution here. They're not only losing sales right now but this fix is going to cost them a huge amount of money for parts and labor.
And public relations are already in the potter, so think about what might happen to it if this takes a long time to remedy. Hence, this is why they're slinging accusations as to people's maintenance habits and driving abilities, etc. It's a coarse and nasty problem for Toyota, it really is.
With something large and expensive and involving safety like an automobile people expect their automaker to deal honestly with them and that isn't happening with their huge customer base. Hence the increased anxiety and anger and confusion going on.
One huge problem they are going to have is that from now to eternity any time someone wrecks a Toyota they will start screaming, "not my fault, the thing just took off and I was helpless", whether true or not.
yeah, it would be nice if people were actually honest as a whole race. But they're not. And so what you mentioned is going to potentially make their plight all the more tricky and difficult, I agree.
True, but in the same manner, the next time Toyota tries to say it is the consumer causing the problem, everyone is going to think back on this issue and wonder, hmmm, is this another Toyota coverup or what?
Not good consumer relations. Once you lose the customers trust, they will forever be trying to regain that, meanwhile they will be losing customers to other automakers.
Yesterday Budget announced that it was removing all of the vehicles identified for recall by Toyota from its corporate fleet in the US, Canada, and Puerto Rico. This step was taken to protect the safety of our customers, which is always our top priority.
It is important to note that the safety problems that have led to Toyota’s recall of certain vehicles are believed to arise out of usage over time. Accordingly, we believe that all of the Toyota vehicles in our fleet are safe, given the regular maintenance and the low mileage of our overall fleet.
We also want to reassure you that the affected Toyotas represent only a small percentage of our overall fleet, so we expect to be able to fulfill all projected demand and you can continue to make reservations with complete confidence for any rental occasion. Our fleet strategy emphasizes diversity so that we are able to respond to the full range of vehicle rental needs of our customers, as well as to reduce our risk from any issues arising out of any individual manufacturer.
We further want to emphasize that only certain Toyota makes and models, in addition to the Pontiac Vibe, are affected by the recall. Those Toyota vehicles that are not affected will continue to be offered for rental; however, if you are uncomfortable driving a Toyota vehicle, we will make every effort to offer you an alternative vehicle if one is available.
Our commitment to customer safety is also behind our decision to offer what we believe is the youngest and lowest-mileage fleet in the vehicle rental industry. Whether you place as high a premium on safety as we do, or whether you just like driving new cars, either way Budget continues to be your best car rental choice.
Thank you for continuing to choose Budget for your vehicle rental needs.
For those that still want to convince themself that Toyota took aggressive action for the sake of the consumer...Turns out, the decision to stop producing these vehicles wasn't made by Toyota alone. The Detroit News reports that Toyota is required by law to stop selling the vehicles since there is no fix available yet.
Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so. How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?
"[T]he big blow to Toyota's quality reputation could magnify the impact of a Hyundai marketing blitz that focuses on its improved quality. The campaign will begin with the U.S. launch next month of the new Sonata family sedan designed to compete in the segment largely associated with Toyota's Camry. "
Since there is some slack this weekend, and the discussion is about mending... I have speed channel on, broadcasting the '24 Hours of Daytona' and they just interviewed a driver about their feet getting over heated driving a car that has not run the race before. To try fix it, he cut out a piece of styro foam from a take out meal in the shape of his foot, to put in his driving shoe! :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Heh, think Popsicle Stick for the Toyota fix - or you can wait for the official shim:
"The repair that U.S. regulators cleared is a "selective spacer," or shim, that would be inserted into the gas-pedal assembly to increase tension within the pedal to prevent the accelerator from remaining in a depressed position. Toyota has told dealers that it can produce as many as 120,000 of the shims a day."
Yep my bad on that one. That was an emailed letter I received from Budget rent a car explaining their position on all of this Toyota stuff going on. Would've helped if I had explained it as such.
I bought a 1986 Mercury Lynx SW from Budget Car Rentals and Sales in 1989 in Everett, WA. But I must've rented a rig or two from them since that because I got that e-mail letter sent to me, too.
Wait a minute, this is coming to me live people, I rented the white 2009 Toyota Camry from Budget at Sea-Tac Airport in June of '09! There's their connection to getting and wanting my e-mail address.
Whew! It was a floaty-suspensioned '09 Camry that I rented. Decent car. Not once did the accelerator over-rev and/or get stuck. Felt like a "safe" ride to me.
How many times are you going to repost this nonsense, just using different and more inflammatory words?
Even after a documented sudden acceleration crash that killed four people, Toyota continued to make "inaccurate and misleading" statements about its accelerator defect.
Is this the Texas case from just a month ago? How do we know there was sudden acceleration, and if so, that it was caused by vehicular malfunction? Were there any witnesses? (I know no one in the car survived.)
However, many independent safety experts said Toyota's recall did not go far enough. Even Time magazine said Toyota's recall was not sufficient and would not end the sudden acceleration problem. Consumer Reports found that Toyota had far more sudden acceleration events than any other automaker. Sean Kane -- an independent safety expert with Safety Research & Strategies -- has identified more than 2,100 separate Toyota sudden acceleration events.
What makes Time magazine so knowledgeable about cars? How many more reports (in actual numbers) did Consumer Reports find? Sean Kane's group has no credibility -- just look at the sensational retelling of the sudden acceleration incidents on their website. No, they are a bunch of ambulance chasers with only ONE engineer on the staff -- not Kane.
Perhaps most telling, a former attorney for Toyota dropped off on the steps of a federal courthouse boxes of documents that Toyota had improperly (perhaps illegally) withheld in lawsuits across the country.
Is this the infamous disgruntled, mentally unstable Biller? The prosecutor that looked at these documents found no evidence to pursue any further investigation.
>>Perhaps most telling, a former attorney for Toyota dropped off on the steps of a federal courthouse boxes of documents that Toyota had improperly (perhaps illegally) withheld in lawsuits across the country.
>Is this the infamous disgruntled, mentally unstable Biller?
This is the time-tested technique by government and businesses of smearing someone who has dirt on them and exposes it. Label them as crazy, liars, etc.
>>Even Time magazine said Toyota's recall was not sufficient and would not end the sudden acceleration problem. Consumer Reports found that Toyota had far more sudden acceleration events than any other automaker. Sean Kane -- an independent safety expert with Safety Research & Strategies -- has identified more than 2,100 separate Toyota sudden acceleration events.
>What makes Time magazine so knowledgeable about cars?
Let me think. Consumer Reports was labelled as "great" for years when they unquestionably labeled any Toyota or Honda as "wunderbar." Then came the refresh of the Avalon based on the previous Camry, and it didn't quite meet the bar. So after initially labelling it "wunderbar," CR changed their tune. Then came the acceleration hesitation. Hmmmmm.
So now Consumer Reports doesn't know best?
>Is this the Texas case from just a month ago? How do we know there was sudden acceleration,
The real question is how do we know there was NOT sudden acceleration?
Some of the responses in the discussions of the long-standing sudden acceleration problems of Toyota have come down to "you can't prove there was" so there wasn't any.
Toyota's ad in today's Minneapolis Star Tribune almost infuriated me.
They continue to call it a "sticking accelerator," implying that the driver presses down part way on the pedal and the pedal doesn't return to idle when the brake is applied.
But if you read the actual complaints on the NHTSA website (I have, and there are more Toyota models affected than just the 8 they recalled), you'll see that the problem is "sudden acceleration" where drivers complain the engine was going at one RPM, but then something mysterious happened so that it ramped up to a much higher RPM on its own. The pedal wasn't stuck from the last position the driver pressed it to; the vehicle actually bolted to a much higher speed into the sky blue yonder without any driver input.
Toyota had the highest number of sudden acceleration complaints of all makes since 2008. Ford was second.
No, I'm not an engineer, but it only took a few hours of research to be convinced that the problem is Toyota's throttle-by-wire sensors and computer controls, not sticking pedals or sliding floor mats. If Toyota says they are using shims for the accelerator pedal fix, they are fixing a mechanical problem that doesn't exist. They should be fixing an electrical/computer problem. And they should add an electrical/computer override of the throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed like other car builders.
I was really interested in Toyota's new 2011 Sienna minivan that will be soon arriving in dealer stores. Yes, I know it was not on the list of models recalled, but it should be since the Sienna, too, has complaints filed with NHTSA for sudden acceleration (yep, I checked). And the latest specs published by Toyota say nothing about a "brake override of the electronic accelerator" feature on the 2011 version.
Is Toyota on the mend for 2010? Not hardly. Not when it insults the intelligence of its customers by refusing to use the words "sudden acceleration," but instead says "sticking accelerator pedals in some of our models" which are caused first by driver error, then by incorrectly installed floor mats, and now by a faulty accelerator pedal that just needs a shim and all will be better.
IMHO, Toyota owners will remain as much at risk after this latest "fix" as they are now and were a couple of months ago after floor mats were adjusted. I fear the company will continue on a downhill spiral unless and until it does the right thing and installs an electronic override of the computerized throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed on ALL of its models that have throttle-by-wire accelerator systems.
Otherwise, if the bad publicity doesn't do the company in, the lawsuits will.
From now on, any time someone crashes their Toyota they will scream it wasn't their fault, etc. I think a lot of this is just panic, greed, and hysteria. Just like the Audi fiasco of a few years ago.
Toyota is doing everything they can to address the situation but it seems like they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The sharks (attorneys) are in the water and they smell blood.
Toyota is doing everything they can to address the situation but it seems like they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Everything they can? Why can't they they come clean with the true underlining issue here. The pedals are or may be only part of the problem, but there is much more to it. Instead of addressing this issue appropriately years ago, they have done everything possible from a PR standpoint by doing buy-backs, etc. to avoid a recall.
That is pure speculation on your part. I'll bet this "horrible situation" is not keeping you from driving your Camry.
Speculation? Try again, feel free to read to the hundreds of threads on this issue; it has been clearly documented.
As for my 2009 Toyota Camry, it has been parked in the garage since the end of December and I won't drive it until all of this is resolved. Thought of taking it to CarMax, but they are not buying the recalled Toyotas. Thought of selling it outright, but who would buy it now unless you sold it for some crazy cheap price. Once again, it is the customer who is inconvenienced by all of this instead of Toyota admitting to its fault years ago.
I am hoping Toyota is ordered to require a buy-back for those interested.
Gosh, I would have never guessed from your posts !!
Good, glad I was able to clarify it; I guess had Toyota come out with this so called recall 5 years ago, I would view them alot differently. I just have a problem with companies that try to set themself apart from other and expect to be viewed as such, then turn around and as just like anyone else. However, about all, they still have not come clean with the actual cause of the sudden acceleration where the pedals were not even involved.
Toyota had the highest number of sudden acceleration complaints of all makes since 2008. Ford was second
So I guess you've also crossed Ford off your list, right? After all, they had the 2nd highest number of complaints. And heck, they don't even have a recall on any of them.
And to be fair, make sure you also research all the other complaints, as you don't want to drive anything that has lots of complaints against them. I suspect after all your research is done, you'll have things narrowed down to a Schwinn.
I am interested in buying your Camry ! So what year,trim level,color,options and miles?? And the asking price?? Lets deal !!
I am not jumping just yet, this story is far from over with either Toyota offer a buy-back program or something. The pedal fix does not solve the problem.
He already stated what he wants, some kind of a buy back program. He's obviously unhappy with his Toyota and wants to get rid of it, probably rolled in mega negative equity on the trade, upside down out the ying yang, and now wants Toyota to buy it back for what he owes on it.
Comments
I've owned most of the major makes but somehow missed out on the Mopar (and Honda) experience.
:P
Seriously, maintenance, repair, and poor resale values (all big time money losses with Chrysler) must mean nothing to you.
Money really does have to grow on trees. :sick:
I can agree with that, they were at the top for a long time.
In contrast Ford was always runner up and had to take that Avis "We're #2, so We Try Harder" mentality. lol, great analogy.
As for Chrysler, well they usually get themselves in trouble about every 10 years anyway, so there are times that it's hard to be a Chrysler fanatic.
So true, and this is what irks me the most about GM fans, they will go on and on about how the fall of their precious company will mean millions of unemployed union workers, millions of families out on the street, basically the fall of the western civilization (cue Lemmy Kilmister :P ) yet here we have Chrysler who up until CH11 was still an American entity and I have yet to hear one voice on these boards claiming the same outcome from its potential demise :confuse: They will also be the first in line to tell you that Fords are worthless pieces of crap. Trust me, I visit here, TN, C&G, GMI, LLN, TOV etc and there are more GM groupies who will trash Ford and Chrysler than there are on any of the import sites. Seriously! They will also pleed for the demise of Toyota, Japan Inc. European brands, whatever for the almighty Government Motors to reign supreme as if it will have zero affect on this Country or the world economy if they disappeared. It's amazing.
I don't know man, I like pretty much every carmaker out there, including the ones not even available in this Country, I can't imagine being that closed minded and biased :lemon:
I do have one Ford vehicle currently in my fleet - a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. There's not much from Ford that really says " I gotta have one" these days. I'd get another Lincoln Town Car if they still made them. The Crown Vic is fleet only and the Grand Marquis is in its last year. The Mustang is nice, but it's not my kind of car. The Taurus is too small.
anyways back on topic here i really dont agree with ford/gm offering incentives on toyota trade in's. Karma is a beautiful thing and when Toyota gets rolling again they will do the same thing to Ford/GM next time one of them fudges up.
But, like others have said, it seems quite likely this fix might cure one problem, but it isn't the only one.
But, we shall see what happens when when shimmed, trimmed and de-matted Yotas are out on the road!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Since this is a Toyota thread, we try to stay on the Toyota topic. :surprise:
Actually I think something like 150,317 was the final count on that 2000 Intrepid. And the only time in that car's life that it ever saw a tow truck was the day it was towed out of my driveway and out of my life, after I signed it over to the insurance company. It wasn't a perfect car, but it had been a good car over the years.
If I had gone brand-new, I was leaning towards a 2010 Altima, although I would have at least tried out a Fusion, Malibu, and Accord to see how they compared. The Camry, however, just doesn't do it for me.
As for Mopar, the only current products I really like are the Charger and 300, and the Ram trucks. And if I was going new, I was hoping to go a bit more economical than the Intrepid had been, so that sort of ruled any of them out.
My boss was a big Chrysler guy till he switched to Volvo/Saab and his chryslers were pretty reliable too.
We all know you got a bad neon and none of us care anymore.
When I was looking at some of the older vehicles (60s/70s muscle cars) I got acquainted with the GM performance parts website (crate motors, factory hot rod parts). I thought it was a pretty amazing resource. I couldn't find a factory style website from Ford or Chrysler (although in the 80s it was called "direct connection" or something). All those crate engines and head assemblies and stuff were pretty sweet. Chrysler had $20k Hemi motors listed.
I guess Toyota has TuRD, but that is more like Ford's SVT line. I can't pick on TuRD too much, SVT was almost FaRT (Ford Racing Team or Tech or something). Honda doesn't really have anything factory backed, some Mugen stuff - like that special edition Civic SI. Nissan has NISMO, but I don't see them doing alot right now either.
Just because an incident was claimed back in 2004, does not mean there was sufficient evidence at the time to conclude that a defect was present. It takes time as you said to discern a pattern in the complaints, and NHTSA has a large staff devoted to sifting through the data. The majority of investigations are closed with "no defect trend found," and a fair number end with the manufacturer stepping in with a voluntary recall.
A poster in another forum said looking at the NHTSA complaints database was confusing because of the "high signal-to-noise" ratio, meaning there's a lot of oddball, even crackpot, complaints in there. I've looked myself, and some of the complaints make you burst out laughing at their incredulity. I guess some people will say anything to take the blame off themselves.
Alan Mulally was CEO of Commercial Airplanes at Boeing while I was there. He seemed to get respect back in the late 90's and early 2000's. Nothing too funky coming from his office, just straight-ahead business decisions that were final after leaving his desk. No farting around and trying to get him to change his mind after he's made his mind up, etc. Nothing to really put down as far as those things go.
As far as product line, crikey, Ford has the truck thing down, though GM and Dodge with their popular Ram series has given them some serious competition. But I don't see how one could not want to praise A.Mulally for his handling of Ford through this nasty depressed economic situation in America of late.
I'm taking a half-serious look at a Ford Fusion Hybrid and seeing if it would give Mitsubishi and their proposed Lancer Hybrid any real competion for my new world order automobile spending buck. I am seriously impressed by the Ford Fusion Hybrid and I like it's looks, too. I think Ford has designed a great midsize sedan in the Fusion and they've also designed a great midsize hybrid in the same car. There is a lot to like and respect with Ford for these accomplishments. And quality and reliability awards are ringing in for Ford right now, too. Am I missing anything here? What's not to like about Ford right now. If the body designs were much less than desirable then I could put them down, but IMO they're looking pretty decent. I have bought more Fo-Mo-Co products than any other so if I go back to a Big 2 1/2 product in the future it would most likely be a Ford product.
Sheesh...one could almost shoosh them ahead in to 2011 and give them their hall pass with 5 gold stars stuck to it, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
C&D came today, and they had a preview of the upcoming Focus. Man, the 5 door is sweet looking. And from the pictures and how they describe it, it will put the Corolla to shame.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Toyota finally (but reluctantly) acknowledged the problem and issued a massive recall of its vehicles. However, many independent safety experts said Toyota's recall did not go far enough. Even Time magazine said Toyota's recall was not sufficient and would not end the sudden acceleration problem. Consumer Reports found that Toyota had far more sudden acceleration events than any other automaker. Sean Kane -- an independent safety expert with Safety Research & Strategies -- has identified more than 2,100 separate Toyota sudden acceleration events.
Toyota's sudden acceleration problem was not Toyota's only issue this year, just the most publicized. Toyota's problems actually ran much deeper. Toyota was forced to recall thousands of its Tundra pickup trucks for corrosion and rust damage. The federal government is investigating another electronic engine control problem that causes Toyota vehicles to stall out -- literally cutting off power to the engine. Toyota is also under investigation for deaths caused by relay rod failures in Toyota pickup trucks.
Perhaps most telling, a former attorney for Toyota dropped off on the steps of a federal courthouse boxes of documents that Toyota had improperly (perhaps illegally) withheld in lawsuits across the country.
How has Toyota gotten away with such egregious conduct for so long? Are there two sets of rules in this country -- one set for powerful corporations and one set for regular people like you and me?
Imagine that you had a dangerous hole in your front yard. When confronted by safety authorities, you simply said, there's no hole there... and if there is one, it's not really that dangerous. Would city safety officials just so "ok" and let you off the hook?
What if you knew about the hole and didn't warn visitors? What if someone fell into that hole and was hurt or killed? Could you tell authorities there wasn't really a hole there? Could you tell them that the victim must have been distracted or not paying attention when he fell into the hole that wasn't there?
Could you or I get away with such conduct? Why do we continually let giant corporations get away with hurting or killing the very people that buy their products. It is time we hold car makers and other corporations accountable for their conduct. It is time every one -- rich, poor, old, young -- plays under the same set of rules.
And public relations are already in the potter, so think about what might happen to it if this takes a long time to remedy. Hence, this is why they're slinging accusations as to people's maintenance habits and driving abilities, etc. It's a coarse and nasty problem for Toyota, it really is.
With something large and expensive and involving safety like an automobile people expect their automaker to deal honestly with them and that isn't happening with their huge customer base. Hence the increased anxiety and anger and confusion going on.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Not good consumer relations. Once you lose the customers trust, they will forever be trying to regain that, meanwhile they will be losing customers to other automakers.
It is important to note that the safety problems that have led to Toyota’s recall of certain vehicles are believed to arise out of usage over time. Accordingly, we believe that all of the Toyota vehicles in our fleet are safe, given the regular maintenance and the low mileage of our overall fleet.
We also want to reassure you that the affected Toyotas represent only a small percentage of our overall fleet, so we expect to be able to fulfill all projected demand and you can continue to make reservations with complete confidence for any rental occasion. Our fleet strategy emphasizes diversity so that we are able to respond to the full range of vehicle rental needs of our customers, as well as to reduce our risk from any issues arising out of any individual manufacturer.
We further want to emphasize that only certain Toyota makes and models, in addition to the Pontiac Vibe, are affected by the recall. Those Toyota vehicles that are not affected will continue to be offered for rental; however, if you are uncomfortable driving a Toyota vehicle, we will make every effort to offer you an alternative vehicle if one is available.
Our commitment to customer safety is also behind our decision to offer what we believe is the youngest and lowest-mileage fleet in the vehicle rental industry. Whether you place as high a premium on safety as we do, or whether you just like driving new cars, either way Budget continues to be your best car rental choice.
Thank you for continuing to choose Budget for your vehicle rental needs.
Sincerely,
Thomas M. Gartland
Executive Vice President
Does Edmunds charge Budget Rent a car for a commercial like this??? :confuse:
Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so. How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?
Toyota was legally required to stop selling recalled models
Toyota responds to L.A. Times article
Obyone wouldn't spam us - he's been here even longer than you! (forever, in other words).
Whoever wrote this article missed the Anyone experience Sudden Unintended Acceleration in a Santa Fe discussion:
Hyundai Hopes to Avoid Toyota Trap (Business Week)
"[T]he big blow to Toyota's quality reputation could magnify the impact of a Hyundai marketing blitz that focuses on its improved quality. The campaign will begin with the U.S. launch next month of the new Sonata family sedan designed to compete in the segment largely associated with Toyota's Camry. "
I have speed channel on, broadcasting the '24 Hours of Daytona' and they just interviewed a driver about their feet getting over heated driving a car that has not run the race before.
To try fix it, he cut out a piece of styro foam from a take out meal in the shape of his foot, to put in his driving shoe! :surprise:
"The repair that U.S. regulators cleared is a "selective spacer," or shim, that would be inserted into the gas-pedal assembly to increase tension within the pedal to prevent the accelerator from remaining in a depressed position. Toyota has told dealers that it can produce as many as 120,000 of the shims a day."
Toyota Gas Pedal Fix Clears Regulators (Wall St. Journal)
'inquiring minds want to know'.
Wait a minute, this is coming to me live people, I rented the white 2009 Toyota Camry from Budget at Sea-Tac Airport in June of '09! There's their connection to getting and wanting my e-mail address.
Whew! It was a floaty-suspensioned '09 Camry that I rented. Decent car. Not once did the accelerator over-rev and/or get stuck. Felt like a "safe" ride to me.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Even after a documented sudden acceleration crash that killed four people, Toyota continued to make "inaccurate and misleading" statements about its accelerator defect.
Is this the Texas case from just a month ago? How do we know there was sudden acceleration, and if so, that it was caused by vehicular malfunction? Were there any witnesses? (I know no one in the car survived.)
However, many independent safety experts said Toyota's recall did not go far enough. Even Time magazine said Toyota's recall was not sufficient and would not end the sudden acceleration problem. Consumer Reports found that Toyota had far more sudden acceleration events than any other automaker. Sean Kane -- an independent safety expert with Safety Research & Strategies -- has identified more than 2,100 separate Toyota sudden acceleration events.
What makes Time magazine so knowledgeable about cars? How many more reports (in actual numbers) did Consumer Reports find? Sean Kane's group has no credibility -- just look at the sensational retelling of the sudden acceleration incidents on their website. No, they are a bunch of ambulance chasers with only ONE engineer on the staff -- not Kane.
Perhaps most telling, a former attorney for Toyota dropped off on the steps of a federal courthouse boxes of documents that Toyota had improperly (perhaps illegally) withheld in lawsuits across the country.
Is this the infamous disgruntled, mentally unstable Biller? The prosecutor that looked at these documents found no evidence to pursue any further investigation.
Have you unloaded your Camry yet?
>Is this the infamous disgruntled, mentally unstable Biller?
This is the time-tested technique by government and businesses of smearing someone who has dirt on them and exposes it. Label them as crazy, liars, etc.
>>Even Time magazine said Toyota's recall was not sufficient and would not end the sudden acceleration problem. Consumer Reports found that Toyota had far more sudden acceleration events than any other automaker. Sean Kane -- an independent safety expert with Safety Research & Strategies -- has identified more than 2,100 separate Toyota sudden acceleration events.
>What makes Time magazine so knowledgeable about cars?
Let me think. Consumer Reports was labelled as "great" for years when they unquestionably labeled any Toyota or Honda as "wunderbar." Then came the refresh of the Avalon based on the previous Camry, and it didn't quite meet the bar. So after initially labelling it "wunderbar," CR changed their tune. Then came the acceleration hesitation. Hmmmmm.
So now Consumer Reports doesn't know best?
>Is this the Texas case from just a month ago? How do we know there was sudden acceleration,
The real question is how do we know there was NOT sudden acceleration?
Some of the responses in the discussions of the long-standing sudden acceleration problems of Toyota have come down to "you can't prove there was" so there wasn't any.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They continue to call it a "sticking accelerator," implying that the driver presses down part way on the pedal and the pedal doesn't return to idle when the brake is applied.
But if you read the actual complaints on the NHTSA website (I have, and there are more Toyota models affected than just the 8 they recalled), you'll see that the problem is "sudden acceleration" where drivers complain the engine was going at one RPM, but then something mysterious happened so that it ramped up to a much higher RPM on its own. The pedal wasn't stuck from the last position the driver pressed it to; the vehicle actually bolted to a much higher speed into the sky blue yonder without any driver input.
Toyota had the highest number of sudden acceleration complaints of all makes since 2008. Ford was second.
No, I'm not an engineer, but it only took a few hours of research to be convinced that the problem is Toyota's throttle-by-wire sensors and computer controls, not sticking pedals or sliding floor mats. If Toyota says they are using shims for the accelerator pedal fix, they are fixing a mechanical problem that doesn't exist. They should be fixing an electrical/computer problem. And they should add an electrical/computer override of the throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed like other car builders.
I was really interested in Toyota's new 2011 Sienna minivan that will be soon arriving in dealer stores. Yes, I know it was not on the list of models recalled, but it should be since the Sienna, too, has complaints filed with NHTSA for sudden acceleration (yep, I checked). And the latest specs published by Toyota say nothing about a "brake override of the electronic accelerator" feature on the 2011 version.
Is Toyota on the mend for 2010? Not hardly. Not when it insults the intelligence of its customers by refusing to use the words "sudden acceleration," but instead says "sticking accelerator pedals in some of our models" which are caused first by driver error, then by incorrectly installed floor mats, and now by a faulty accelerator pedal that just needs a shim and all will be better.
IMHO, Toyota owners will remain as much at risk after this latest "fix" as they are now and were a couple of months ago after floor mats were adjusted. I fear the company will continue on a downhill spiral unless and until it does the right thing and installs an electronic override of the computerized throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed on ALL of its models that have throttle-by-wire accelerator systems.
Otherwise, if the bad publicity doesn't do the company in, the lawsuits will.
Toyota is doing everything they can to address the situation but it seems like they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The sharks (attorneys) are in the water and they smell blood.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Everything they can? Why can't they they come clean with the true underlining issue here. The pedals are or may be only part of the problem, but there is much more to it. Instead of addressing this issue appropriately years ago, they have done everything possible from a PR standpoint by doing buy-backs, etc. to avoid a recall.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Speculation? Try again, feel free to read to the hundreds of threads on this issue; it has been clearly documented.
As for my 2009 Toyota Camry, it has been parked in the garage since the end of December and I won't drive it until all of this is resolved. Thought of taking it to CarMax, but they are not buying the recalled Toyotas. Thought of selling it outright, but who would buy it now unless you sold it for some crazy cheap price. Once again, it is the customer who is inconvenienced by all of this instead of Toyota admitting to its fault years ago.
I am hoping Toyota is ordered to require a buy-back for those interested.
In a perfect world that could happen. Unfortunately, it's not a perfect world and no way would that happen. We can often wish though.
Gosh, I would have never guessed from your posts !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Good, glad I was able to clarify it; I guess had Toyota come out with this so called recall 5 years ago, I would view them alot differently. I just have a problem with companies that try to set themself apart from other and expect to be viewed as such, then turn around and as just like anyone else. However, about all, they still have not come clean with the actual cause of the sudden acceleration where the pedals were not even involved.
So what year,trim level,color,options and miles?? And the asking price??
Lets deal !! :shades:
So I guess you've also crossed Ford off your list, right? After all, they had the 2nd highest number of complaints. And heck, they don't even have a recall on any of them.
And to be fair, make sure you also research all the other complaints, as you don't want to drive anything that has lots of complaints against them. I suspect after all your research is done, you'll have things narrowed down to a Schwinn.
So what year,trim level,color,options and miles?? And the asking price??
Lets deal !!
I am not jumping just yet, this story is far from over with either Toyota offer a buy-back program or something. The pedal fix does not solve the problem.
You see, statements like that are what I have been objecting to. In your mind, just how does Toyota solve this "problem"?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
He already stated what he wants, some kind of a buy back program. He's obviously unhappy with his Toyota and wants to get rid of it, probably rolled in mega negative equity on the trade, upside down out the ying yang, and now wants Toyota to buy it back for what he owes on it.