Yup,That` s the problem.. Now everyone having a Toyota who has an accident or who owes a lot and is strapped financially --well guess what --they want the buy back scheme??? Jeez !!!
Get real !!! Buyback ?? :P GM/F/C never ever offered any buy back programs for all the crap vehicles they put out all these years !! And Toyota must buy your car back even after fixing the problem !!I I think you are better off buying a Chrysler product... Then you would realize what a buy back would be !
Not every Toyota on the recall list is effected. Out of the two million or so Toyota's built during this period a very small percent actually experienced the problem. If every Toyota in this group had the problem. It would be relatively easy to locate and fix. However when it only happens sporadically it is going to be more difficult to find. My wife has a 2009 Camry with 20K miles and runs fine. If the accelerator does stick she knows to shift into neutral and pull over to the side of the road and call for help.
I had a 02 Buick Rendezvous that would stall after taking off from a stop light or being stopped in traffic, But not all the time. I took it back to the dealer many many times. They couldn't find anything wrong. However one time when I had it at the dealer for this problem and they told me they couldn't find anything wrong. It stalled when I was leaving. They came out checked the code or what ever and fixed the problem and I never had that problem again. It is very difficult to find a electrical problem when it doesn't happen all the time. :shades:
So I guess you've also crossed Ford off your list, right?
Don't be messin' with Ford. Actually the statistic is Toyota has had more complaints of SUA than ALL other makes combined. Ford may be second. But way back from Toyota. From a safety standpoint the cars should be safe after they install the brake over ride on all of their DBW models. That could take a couple years. For all you macho dudes that don't want no stinking recalls done on your vehicles. Just remember if you were so unfortunate as to have an incident, without the changes. You would be liable and probably void your insurance.
You see, statements like that are what I have been objecting to. In your mind, just how does Toyota solve this "problem"?
Well, Toyota has know about this sudden acceleration problem for over 5 years. The pedals "may" be part of the problem, but it doesn't cover it entire. As others have question, how do you explain the sudden acceleration where the pedal were not involved?
He's obviously unhappy with his Toyota and wants to get rid of it
Yes, that is correct! This issue has been ongoing with Toyota for 5 years now where they first tried saying there was no problem, it was the driver. Then it was people floor mats. Now its the pedals, but never Toyota.
probably rolled in mega negative equity on the trade, upside down out the ying yang, and now wants Toyota to buy it back for what he owes on it.
Toyota seems to feel Americans are ignorant and will accept any passoff as a solution. First the mats. Now the sticky pedal. But there's a lot more to all the varied reports, even after throwing out some as people on the wrong pedal, crackpots, etc.
Toyota handled this the same as the sludge: blame the customer after years of telling the customer there's no problem with the engines involved. They gave instructions for long change intervals and then the customers had problems. After lots of pushing toyo finally agreed to help fix some of the motors. But actually what they did was Firestone the problem. When Firestone had defective tires, they stalled and stalled until most of the tires were off cars and long discarded so people couldn't even prove they had Firestone tires and make claims.
Toyo may be in the middle of that kind of process now. Also they may be going to fix the software/firmware/computer by slipping in a fix when they do the fix to make the computer idle the motor if the brake is depressed no matter what indication of power demand the throttle sensor is giving or is being read by the computer in the event of another failure in the process besides the throttle sensor.
If they can slide in a firmware fix without actually admitting it's a factor, they may save themselves lots of money.
This issue has been ongoing with Toyota for 5 years now where they first tried saying there was no problem, it was the driver. Then it was people floor mats. Now its the pedals, but never Toyota. :mad: I believe your Camry is newer than 05 isn't it? Sooo why did you purchase one than? :confuse:
When I detected sludge in my Sienna, my local Toy dealer tried to explain that it was my fault, saying that I should have been changing the oil/filter every 3 months. Regardless, I flogged the van, and have since purchased a new vehicle from a competitor. Sometimes reputation is deserved.
not to change the subject from SUA (and not, my disclaimer in the title box), but I think Toyota has a bigger problem.
Their product leaves much to be desired.
I went to the philly car show today, and man, the Toyota display just screamed cheap, unattractive, etc. What made things worse is they had Hyundai next door, and it was like night and day.
Toyota does seem to be living more off their reputation as being 0$ maintence, run forever appliances that never give a problem, and this latest fiasco is going to put a serious dent in that.
ANd if it does, and the product has to carry the day, they could be in a world of hurt.
Funny thing with the coupon settlement. We were talking about such things last night.
My brother is a lawyer. He mentioned a couple of cases like that. One was against Dell computer involving its stock. My dad had some stock in Dell. In the settlement he got one cent per share. The lawyers pocketed $5 million.
There was another one with Deer Park. People in the class action got coupons for Deer Park water. The lawyers got $3.5 million.
Remember that when you join your class action with Toyota....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
No, I'm not an engineer, but it only took a few hours of research to be convinced that the problem is Toyota's throttle-by-wire sensors and computer controls, not sticking pedals or sliding floor mats. If Toyota says they are using shims for the accelerator pedal fix, they are fixing a mechanical problem that doesn't exist.
How do you know this? Is NHTSA also being bamboozled by Toyota? Why go through the effort and expense of conducting a massive recall when such a recall won't address the real issue? Or are the conspiracy theorists right -- that Toyota's also going to "reflash" the cars' computers on the sly, to implement the brake-override system?
IMHO, Toyota owners will remain as much at risk after this latest "fix" as they are now and were a couple of months ago after floor mats were adjusted.
When the first recall was announced, the only thing owners were told to do immediately was to remove floormats from the driver's footwell. Or if owners insisted on keeping their mats, make sure they are properly secured with the hooks provided and not stack other mats on top of the factory one. Actual recalls were to start on a "rolling" basis in January, in which the gas pedals would be shortened and replacement all-weather mats provided if the owner wanted them. Beginning this spring, newly shaped gas pedals would be available for free installation.
We received a mailing from an out-of-state law firm involved in a class-action suit against the makers of Masonite and similar forms of wood exterior house siding. The siding has a nasty tendency over time of absorbing water and turning basically into sawdust. Our 1991 house has this type of siding, but we've been able to keep the problem mostly at bay by frequent repainting. We've replaced only the north-facing siding on one wall with Hardiplank, plus a few other slats here and there (mostly around and underneath windows where water intrusion is more likely).
There was no charge involved in joining the class, so we went ahead. Most of the paperwork and all of the inspections of our house were handled by the law firm. The process stretched over several months, but ultimately we "won" a settlement amount of about $230 or so, 30% of which was deducted by the law firm.
When you add up the total numbers of cases this firm handled, I bet they made out quite well. We received a pittance.
I'm not fully buying into the Hyundai/Kia hype. Look at the crash test ratings for their cars as well as their smallest SUVs. Not so good. Maybe the new ones will be better like the Kia Soul, but I'll wait until the crash tests results are announced.
Crash test results here. (This is for small cars -- go back to the home rating page to check out other classes of vehicles.)
Plus if they want to be a real contender in the US market, they have to offer some kind of pickup truck.
Now everyone having a Toyota who has an accident or who owes a lot and is strapped financially --well guess what --they want the buy back scheme???
Can you imagine how many claims will come of the woodwork regarding "sudden acceleration" in the future? "Geez officer, the car accelerated on its own and that tree jumped out in front of me!"
Reminds me of the article I read when a city bus was rear-ended in Philly and several bystanders jumped onto the bus after the crash and cried "Whiplash!"
In your link CR cherry picked a very short time frame to give Toyota a break. NHTSA reports that over the last decade Toyota has had more complaints of runaway acceleration than all other brands combined. Ford has not recalled any vehicles for SUA.
SRS’s database consists only of incidents reported from 1999 to the present (regardless of model year). We have defined unintended acceleration as any incident in which the complainant reported an engine acceleration that was unintended – regardless of whether the car was in gear. We understand that this is a broader inclusion than others have considered; however, because we are still at a stage of trying to understand the incidents we believe this inclusiveness will help us discern vehicle years / models and incident types that we may want to investigate further.
Since our last summary of reported incidents in December 2009, we have identified over 200 additional incidents, resulting in a total of 2262 reported incidents, 815 crashes, 341 injuries, and 19 fatalities.
I don't know how long we have to talk about this sludge issue, which really isn't the subject of this thread. The last models affected were 2002s, for pete's sake.
Maintenance intervals before 2004 models:
4 months or 5000 miles, whichever came first, for severe service; 6 months or 7500 miles, whichever came first, for normal service.
After 2004 (except 2010 models using synthetic oil): 6 months or 5000 miles
I did the oil changes myself on my former '97 Camry 4-cylinder every 5000 miles, which worked out to 3+ changes a year, on average. No sludge after 7 years and 111K miles, when I sold it.
We sell Hyundai's as well as Toyota's (2), Honda's (2), Acura and Chevy. Our store, the Chevy store, the Acura store, the Hyundai store and the Honda store here are each the largest in this region. We've got a pretty good handle on who's doing what to whom.
Hyundai has some very solid products on the streets and in the pipeline there's no doubt about this. But the retail penetration is low compared the the Nippon 3. The new JD Power survey confirms what we're seeing too, but each market can be different.
Well, now all this makes sense kdhspyder...you do have a vested interested in Toyota since you sell them.. Now if you could only learn from some of us owners. Like Toyota headquarters, you are just interested in the sale and as many sales reps will do, say anything now a days to sell a car. Readers beware of the comments that Toyota has done nothing wrong and all will be just fine next week with the recall! Same story Toyota tried to pawn off on us. :sick:
SRS again? This is Sean Kane's group, which has no credibility IMO -- just look at the sensational retelling of the sudden acceleration incidents on their website. They are a bunch of ambulance chasers with only ONE engineer on the staff -- not Kane.
Where are much more respected organizations on this issues? Consumer Reports has been active, but not inflammatory. I haven't heard a thing from the IIHS though (maybe there simply aren't enough "sudden acceleration" cases for Toyota crashes to stand out from say, Honda's). Even fire-breathers Joan Claybrook and Clarence Ditlow have been relatively quiet. Not a peep from Ralph Nader either -- if anyone was going to be making hay out of this, you'd think he'd be in the front lines.
I have a co-worker who owns a 1992 Toyota Corolla and a 2002 Toyota Sienna. He is looking to trade in his Corolla, but this acceleration pedal fiasco by Toyota has convinced him to look at the 2010 Nissan Sentra instead of a Corolla. Another lost customer I suppose. More than half of my co-workers own Toyota including myself. I have an old 1990 Celica. It is interesting to note that these recalls have convinced almost all of them to look elsewhere for their next car even though their personal Toyota's are running fine. I think my annecdotal workplace "Toyota hysteria" is not alone and unfortunately the public will overreact and punish Toyota big time through their car purchasing power.
I call foul -- besmirching a longtime Edmund's poster. We old-timers knows he sells Toyotas. As you can see though, he could easily make the switch to one of the other stores if he wanted to. He's put tons of miles on a string of Toyotas (way more than me for example), so I put a lot more credibility on what he's been posting compared to the endless rants from some here.
I'm thinking that NHTSA did a half [non-permissible content removed] job just based on their "no problem" findings versus Toyota's current actions. I hope Toyota is getting some outside electronics expertise to make sure its only pedals and floormats. Maybe the brake override reflash protects against any possible electronically induced surge? If they start having more UA problems after these recalls are implemented I think they will loose a lot of credibility with the buying public. GM is an example of what happens when that occurs. People are only patient to a point.
I'm also curious why people are confident that there is no problem with Denso. IIRC all of the complaints about Honda CRV A/C problems are related to a Denso compressor design? Just because they are Japanese doesn't mean they are necessarily a better vendor.
Well, there's been no hysterics at my workplace, just some queries about how to handle any "incidents." No one's parked their cars. Toyota/Lexus/Scion are #2 here, behind Honda/Acura.
Considering NHTSA has a relatively small staff and budget compared to some federal agencies, I think they do a pretty good job of investigating complaints. You do realize they receive tons of complaints, ranging from legitimate to crackpot? Separating the wheat from the chaff takes time and money.
I went to the DC auto show yesterday, and as soon as I came off the escalator from the station, I was affronted by a group of people passing around brochures claiming that Toyota was betraying the American worker, and was about to pull a move that would cost 50,000 American jobs.
They were whining about the NUMMI plant getting closed down, and in the brochure was a little postcard you could cut out and mail off to Mr. Toyoda himself, saying that if he doesn't keep NUMMI open, I'll never buy a Toyota again.
Mmmmkay...so GM bails on that plant, and it's no big deal. But When Toyota gives up the ghost, let's throw a hissy fit!
Oh, and while we were inside the DC convention center, a bunch of them walked by chanting some anti Toyota song sung to the tune of "YMCA". I couldn't make out the words though, as they couldn't carry a tune too well. :P
You do realize they receive tons of complaints, ranging from legitimate to crackpot? Separating the wheat from the chaff takes time and money.
I remember years ago, one of their databases was online and searchable. I got a giggle when I looked up complaints for the Dodge Dart, and one of them was someone whining that the 6-cyl was too weak, but the V-8 was too powerful! Okay, so how about that slant-seven!
>When you add up the total numbers of cases this firm handled, I bet they made out quite well. We received a pittance.
That's what often happens in class action suits. I've been plaintiff in several as part of the class. In a few, a good monetary settlement occurs for the victims. In most the attorneys make out like bandits--even criminal attorneys. My involvement in settlements that paid a reasonable amount were all early. Anything after 1995 seemed to more for the attorneys to make money than for justice for the true "little people" to occur.
I suspect a class action suit against Toyota would depend greatly on which attorneys get involved. I suspect people thinking there will be a good monetary settlement will be disappointed other than those who actually had an accident during UIA. That's my opinion at the current moment based on what's been done and how and what's not been done.
>I don't know how long we have to talk about this sludge issue, which really isn't the subject of this thread.
The discussion is about a pattern of handling, or obfuscating, a problem.
>4 months or 5000 miles, severe >6 months or 7500 miles, normal
Thank you for the info. My long memory says a lot of people followed the 7500 miles (without regard to the 6 months) even though their service was severe, and they are the ones who had more troubles.
I was "represented" in a class action law suit against Apple...the "hockey puck" AC adapters they used with PowerBooks and iBooks to make them look cute and be less functional. I filed a complaint on the CPSC page as well. For mailing in a bunch of paperwork, I got 3 $50 off coupons, all of which got used on iPods. I am sure the lawyers got a gazillion dollars and I got $50 an overpriced trinket, but eh it was better than a slap in the face I guess.
Now that is something I will go along with. To me, the Camry looks like a cheap version of the Sonata. That grill with the big flap/logo hanging down at the top is just awful. What were they thinking?
Where does the Camry excel over the Sonata? The Sonata is bigger, safer, and has a better warranty. Costs less comparably equipped. Sonata looks better and according to the reports I have read uses better components. And gets better highway mileage.
If someone reads the paper or watches TV they would know of the problems Toyota is having. That should send them in search of a alternative. The Maxima is over priced and the Accord is not as safe. Should be a good time to be selling Hyundai.
Here is link to article by Christine Tierney in Detroit News that has video of interview by NBC Today Show host Matt Lauer and Jim Lentz, President of Toyota USA. It is interesting to note that Mr. Lentz says there are only two problems that Toyota is addressing: "entrapped pedal" and "sticking pedal."
The fix, as announced this morning by Toyota, is to install a metal bar, or shim, on the accelerator pedal linkage. There is no mention whatsoever of installing an override of the electronic throttle-by-wire system when the brake pedal is depressed. Mr. Lentz said, "We have tested the electronics thoroughly," and have "redundant failsafe mechanisms" in place. I imagined Toyota lawyers starting to cry when they heard him say that!
EDIT: Whooohooo! Check this link out. "Lentz said he is confident that resolving this issue and the floormat entrapment problem will solve the problem for Toyota. The automaker has also said it is making "brake override" -- a system that cuts engine power to the wheels as soon as the brake pedal is pressed -- standard equipment on all of its cars.
The "brake override" software will also be added to the internal computers on some cars as they are brought in for recall repairs, a Toyota spokesman said." Toyota announces gas pedal fix
This is extremely ENCOURAGING news!!!! Toyota may NOT have lost a potential customer after all.
Potential fraud? Who's to say somebody who's behind on his Toyota payments wouldn't park the car in front of a concrete barrier, place a brick on top of the accelerator pedal, and let it fly head-on into the wall? "Oh oh! Those nasty 'Yotas and their SUA!!! I was lucky I wasn't killed!" It'll at least keep your credit from getting badly dinged versus waiting for Matt and Froy to show up and hook your Camry.
I was at the Philly Auto Show this weekend with my wife. The foot traffic near the Toyota display was lighter than usual. Well, that's one sign Hyundai is moving up in the world. They used to be in the "bargain basement" along with such makes a Kia and Suzuki prior to this year. Now they are being displayed next to the legendary Toyota. I must admit, Hyundai did have a much nicer display this year compared to others. The Equus made an appearance.
If you listen closely Lentz says "We are convinced" several times. That apparently was the speaking point he was told to deliver. When Laurer (bless his heart) kept pounding on the fact that toyota knew about reports earlier and then Laurer got at the point this may not be the real and only pair of causes for UIA, Lentz stumbled and said something about there might be others like the transmission or cruise control related. . But the real body language indicated was that he was stumbling. Laurer set him up to blame CTS by asking if they had any reports before CTS started making the pedal sensor but inherent in the question was admission that they had reports earlier if he said yes so as not to blame CTS alone. Instead he stumbled saying that the issue was complicated.
Now, it's either "complicated" or they are "convinced" that they know all about the issue. Lentz's body language says the first is the true answer.
So either they know for sure, are convinced, that this is the only cause or they are looking at other things like that transmission (strange blame connection for me) or cruise control. The cruise control is controlled by the computers. The transmission is a little more independent. Also recall they had trouble with the transmission lag earlier in this cycle.
I was hoping we'd see one of the Japan headquarters guys come out and explain.
Wow! I didn't hear ANY anti-Toyota sentiment from anybody at the Philly Auto Show and Philly's a big-time union town. It seemed to be "business as usual" at the Toyota display despite lighter foot traffic.
Actually I think something like 150,317 was the final count on that 2000 Intrepid. And the only time in that car's life that it ever saw a tow truck was the day it was towed out of my driveway and out of my life, after I signed it over to the insurance company.
So I bet the resale value mattered to you a lot when the insurance company was deciding how much to give you for your wrecked Mopar product. It was nearly 10 years old with 150K miles, any Honda could easily be worth $5K in that range. Of course.... how much you got depends as much on how bad the insurance company wants to gouge you as much as it does on the real resale value.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My boss was a big Chrysler guy till he switched to Volvo/Saab and his chryslers were pretty reliable too.
We all know you got a bad neon and none of us care anymore.
A review of Chrysler's market share will show that more people have had experiences similar to mine than you and your bosses. A review of that declining market share will show that more people care, and less think as you do.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I think my annecdotal workplace "Toyota hysteria" is not alone and unfortunately the public will overreact and punish Toyota big time through their car purchasing power.
They may punish Toyota with their next purchase, but after buying a vehicle (unless it's a Honda) that has 10X more hassles than their Toyota did, they'll be right back to Toyota with the NEXT one. So in the long run, Toyota wins, if in the short run, they lose a little.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I'm the one who originally posted "Toyota lost a potential customer" (#4629) yesterday. Decided to amend the title a little in this reply to Imadazol97 (hope you don't mind, Keith).
Yes, I agree with everything you noticed in the Lentz video. I might even take it a step further by saying that it wouldn't surprise me to hear very soon that Mr. Lentz is leaving Toyota "to pursue other interests." In addition to what you chronicled from the interview, you probably also noticed his rather disingenuous response to Lauer's question regarding the cause of the problem being related to Toyota's goal of wanting to the be the #1 car builder in the world (he said, yes, probably, but Toyota wants to be #1 in quality, not in size, or something like that).
Thing is, should we be bashing Toyota for the sake of what we perceive as justice, or should be we bashing Toyota until the company comes around and finally does the right thing? If the CNN story is correct in its statement that Toyota will, indeed, be adding an override of the electronic throttle when the brake pedal is depressed, then maybe we should be satisfied that the company is coming around after all.
But that isn't the end of it, is it? In fact, it might be just the beginning of something much bigger.
I am the original owner of a 2008 Toyota 4Runner, a year and model that was not included in any of the accelerator recalls. I've noticed on occasion that the RPM surges by 200 to 300 for a second or two when standing at a red light. In checking the NHTSA database, I see there is a similar complaint filed (I haven't filed a complaint yet, but will). With all of the reading I've done in the past week, I'm thinking I might have one of those Toyotas that could also bolt by itself into the wild blue yonder some day. Should the owner who filed the NHTSA complaint, me and other owners of 4Runners with throttle-by-wire be entitled to the brake override fix? I think we should, but what kind of battle will we all have with Toyota to get it?
Those who have suffered damages from sudden unintended acceleration can fight their battles in court or otherwise find settlements with Toyota. For families who suffered injuries or lost loved ones because of this tragic defect, our sincerest condolences and best wishes in your quest for deserved justice.
But for the rest of us, the challenge will be to make sure the company makes the right fix, in a timely manner, and to ALL affected vehicles, not just the ones Toyota decided to include on its list; and to make said fix before we, too, are included among those families who have already experienced damages, injuries or deaths.
I'm willing to support the folks at Toyota in their effort to do just that, but will be critical of them if they don't. -Ken
Oh no, not this "body language" analysis again! Those "news" shows live for this kind of stuff -- drives up ratings after all!
Why is it so hard to accept that maybe only the tangled floormats and sticky gas pedal are the only problems? Why the speculation that there's got to be more to this, that there's a conspiracy afoot? I even see that Rocky's back in the fray on other threads after being away for an extended time.
I think some people just want to see Toyota go down in flames. As for me, when the time comes in the distant future to replace my Camrys and Frontier (probably after I retire and downsize to one or two vehicles at most), I'll survey the automotive landscape at that time and make an informed decision. But nothing's changing for me now. My son isn't afraid of his Prius either.
Comments
GM/F/C never ever offered any buy back programs for all the crap vehicles they put out all these years !! And Toyota must buy your car back even after fixing the problem !!I I think you are better off buying a Chrysler product... Then you would realize what a buy back would be !
I had a 02 Buick Rendezvous that would stall after taking off from a stop light or being stopped in traffic, But not all the time. I took it back to the dealer many many times. They couldn't find anything wrong. However one time when I had it at the dealer for this problem and they told me they couldn't find anything wrong. It stalled when I was leaving. They came out checked the code or what ever and fixed the problem and I never had that problem again. It is very difficult to find a electrical problem when it doesn't happen all the time. :shades:
Don't be messin' with Ford. Actually the statistic is Toyota has had more complaints of SUA than ALL other makes combined. Ford may be second. But way back from Toyota. From a safety standpoint the cars should be safe after they install the brake over ride on all of their DBW models. That could take a couple years. For all you macho dudes that don't want no stinking recalls done on your vehicles. Just remember if you were so unfortunate as to have an incident, without the changes. You would be liable and probably void your insurance.
Info came from here:
Toyota 41%, Ford 28%, others 21% of complaints in 2008
Well, Toyota has know about this sudden acceleration problem for over 5 years. The pedals "may" be part of the problem, but it doesn't cover it entire. As others have question, how do you explain the sudden acceleration where the pedal were not involved?
Yes, that is correct! This issue has been ongoing with Toyota for 5 years now where they first tried saying there was no problem, it was the driver. Then it was people floor mats. Now its the pedals, but never Toyota.
probably rolled in mega negative equity on the trade, upside down out the ying yang, and now wants Toyota to buy it back for what he owes on it.
No, try again, actually paid cash for it
Info came from here:
Toyota 41%, Ford 28%, others 21% of complaints in 2008
And to make matters worse, Toyota led all automakers with most recalled vehicles in 2009
Toyota seems to feel Americans are ignorant and will accept any passoff as a solution. First the mats. Now the sticky pedal. But there's a lot more to all the varied reports, even after throwing out some as people on the wrong pedal, crackpots, etc.
Toyota handled this the same as the sludge: blame the customer after years of telling the customer there's no problem with the engines involved. They gave instructions for long change intervals and then the customers had problems. After lots of pushing toyo finally agreed to help fix some of the motors. But actually what they did was Firestone the problem. When Firestone had defective tires, they stalled and stalled until most of the tires were off cars and long discarded so people couldn't even prove they had Firestone tires and make claims.
Toyo may be in the middle of that kind of process now. Also they may be going to fix the software/firmware/computer by slipping in a fix when they do the fix to make the computer idle the motor if the brake is depressed no matter what indication of power demand the throttle sensor is giving or is being read by the computer in the event of another failure in the process besides the throttle sensor.
If they can slide in a firmware fix without actually admitting it's a factor, they may save themselves lots of money.
The lawsuits are warming up:
Can we spell "class action"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I believe your Camry is newer than 05 isn't it? Sooo why did you purchase one than? :confuse:
Oh boy, coupons! (MSNBC)
.
.
Some of y'all are trying to make this personal. Stick to talking about the cars please.
Regardless, I flogged the van, and have since purchased a new vehicle from a competitor. Sometimes reputation is deserved.
Their product leaves much to be desired.
I went to the philly car show today, and man, the Toyota display just screamed cheap, unattractive, etc. What made things worse is they had Hyundai next door, and it was like night and day.
Toyota does seem to be living more off their reputation as being 0$ maintence, run forever appliances that never give a problem, and this latest fiasco is going to put a serious dent in that.
ANd if it does, and the product has to carry the day, they could be in a world of hurt.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What were the maintenance intervals in the owner's manual? I'm sure they weren't maximum of 3 months between oil changes?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My brother is a lawyer. He mentioned a couple of cases like that. One was against Dell computer involving its stock. My dad had some stock in Dell. In the settlement he got one cent per share. The lawyers pocketed $5 million.
There was another one with Deer Park. People in the class action got coupons for Deer Park water. The lawyers got $3.5 million.
Remember that when you join your class action with Toyota....
How do you know this? Is NHTSA also being bamboozled by Toyota? Why go through the effort and expense of conducting a massive recall when such a recall won't address the real issue? Or are the conspiracy theorists right -- that Toyota's also going to "reflash" the cars' computers on the sly, to implement the brake-override system?
IMHO, Toyota owners will remain as much at risk after this latest "fix" as they are now and were a couple of months ago after floor mats were adjusted.
When the first recall was announced, the only thing owners were told to do immediately was to remove floormats from the driver's footwell. Or if owners insisted on keeping their mats, make sure they are properly secured with the hooks provided and not stack other mats on top of the factory one. Actual recalls were to start on a "rolling" basis in January, in which the gas pedals would be shortened and replacement all-weather mats provided if the owner wanted them. Beginning this spring, newly shaped gas pedals would be available for free installation.
There was no charge involved in joining the class, so we went ahead. Most of the paperwork and all of the inspections of our house were handled by the law firm. The process stretched over several months, but ultimately we "won" a settlement amount of about $230 or so, 30% of which was deducted by the law firm.
When you add up the total numbers of cases this firm handled, I bet they made out quite well. We received a pittance.
Crash test results here. (This is for small cars -- go back to the home rating page to check out other classes of vehicles.)
Plus if they want to be a real contender in the US market, they have to offer some kind of pickup truck.
Can you imagine how many claims will come of the woodwork regarding "sudden acceleration" in the future? "Geez officer, the car accelerated on its own and that tree jumped out in front of me!"
Reminds me of the article I read when a city bus was rear-ended in Philly and several bystanders jumped onto the bus after the crash and cried "Whiplash!"
SRS’s database consists only of incidents reported from 1999 to the present (regardless of model year). We have defined unintended acceleration as any incident in which the complainant reported an engine acceleration that was unintended – regardless of whether the car was in gear. We understand that this is a broader inclusion than others have considered; however, because we are still at a stage of trying to understand the incidents we believe this inclusiveness will help us discern vehicle years / models and incident types that we may want to investigate further.
Since our last summary of reported incidents in December 2009, we have identified over 200 additional incidents, resulting in a total of 2262 reported incidents, 815 crashes, 341 injuries, and 19 fatalities.
Maintenance intervals before 2004 models:
4 months or 5000 miles, whichever came first, for severe service;
6 months or 7500 miles, whichever came first, for normal service.
After 2004 (except 2010 models using synthetic oil):
6 months or 5000 miles
I did the oil changes myself on my former '97 Camry 4-cylinder every 5000 miles, which worked out to 3+ changes a year, on average. No sludge after 7 years and 111K miles, when I sold it.
Hyundai has some very solid products on the streets and in the pipeline there's no doubt about this. But the retail penetration is low compared the the Nippon 3. The new JD Power survey confirms what we're seeing too, but each market can be different.
Well, now all this makes sense kdhspyder...you do have a vested interested in Toyota since you sell them.. Now if you could only learn from some of us owners. Like Toyota headquarters, you are just interested in the sale and as many sales reps will do, say anything now a days to sell a car. Readers beware of the comments that Toyota has done nothing wrong and all will be just fine next week with the recall!
Where are much more respected organizations on this issues? Consumer Reports has been active, but not inflammatory. I haven't heard a thing from the IIHS though (maybe there simply aren't enough "sudden acceleration" cases for Toyota crashes to stand out from say, Honda's). Even fire-breathers Joan Claybrook and Clarence Ditlow have been relatively quiet. Not a peep from Ralph Nader either -- if anyone was going to be making hay out of this, you'd think he'd be in the front lines.
I'm thinking that NHTSA did a half [non-permissible content removed] job just based on their "no problem" findings versus Toyota's current actions. I hope Toyota is getting some outside electronics expertise to make sure its only pedals and floormats. Maybe the brake override reflash protects against any possible electronically induced surge? If they start having more UA problems after these recalls are implemented I think they will loose a lot of credibility with the buying public. GM is an example of what happens when that occurs. People are only patient to a point.
I'm also curious why people are confident that there is no problem with Denso. IIRC all of the complaints about Honda CRV A/C problems are related to a Denso compressor design? Just because they are Japanese doesn't mean they are necessarily a better vendor.
They were whining about the NUMMI plant getting closed down, and in the brochure was a little postcard you could cut out and mail off to Mr. Toyoda himself, saying that if he doesn't keep NUMMI open, I'll never buy a Toyota again.
Mmmmkay...so GM bails on that plant, and it's no big deal. But When Toyota gives up the ghost, let's throw a hissy fit!
Oh, and while we were inside the DC convention center, a bunch of them walked by chanting some anti Toyota song sung to the tune of "YMCA". I couldn't make out the words though, as they couldn't carry a tune too well. :P
I remember years ago, one of their databases was online and searchable. I got a giggle when I looked up complaints for the Dodge Dart, and one of them was someone whining that the 6-cyl was too weak, but the V-8 was too powerful! Okay, so how about that slant-seven!
That's what often happens in class action suits. I've been plaintiff in several as part of the class. In a few, a good monetary settlement occurs for the victims. In most the attorneys make out like bandits--even criminal attorneys. My involvement in settlements that paid a reasonable amount were all early. Anything after 1995 seemed to more for the attorneys to make money than for justice for the true "little people" to occur.
I suspect a class action suit against Toyota would depend greatly on which attorneys get involved. I suspect people thinking there will be a good monetary settlement will be disappointed other than those who actually had an accident during UIA. That's my opinion at the current moment based on what's been done and how and what's not been done.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The discussion is about a pattern of handling, or obfuscating, a problem.
>4 months or 5000 miles, severe
>6 months or 7500 miles, normal
Thank you for the info. My long memory says a lot of people followed the 7500 miles (without regard to the 6 months) even though their service was severe, and they are the ones who had more troubles.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For mailing in a bunch of paperwork, I got 3 $50 off coupons, all of which got used on iPods. I am sure the lawyers got a gazillion dollars and I got $50 an overpriced trinket, but eh it was better than a slap in the face I guess.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
link title
If someone reads the paper or watches TV they would know of the problems Toyota is having. That should send them in search of a alternative. The Maxima is over priced and the Accord is not as safe. Should be a good time to be selling Hyundai.
(Note: the link may be slow to load since there are so many hits against it this morning).
02/01/2010 NBC Today Show host Matt Lauer interview with Toyota USA president Jim Lentz
The fix, as announced this morning by Toyota, is to install a metal bar, or shim, on the accelerator pedal linkage. There is no mention whatsoever of installing an override of the electronic throttle-by-wire system when the brake pedal is depressed. Mr. Lentz said, "We have tested the electronics thoroughly," and have "redundant failsafe mechanisms" in place. I imagined Toyota lawyers starting to cry when they heard him say that!
EDIT: Whooohooo! Check this link out. "Lentz said he is confident that resolving this issue and the floormat entrapment problem will solve the problem for Toyota. The automaker has also said it is making "brake override" -- a system that cuts engine power to the wheels as soon as the brake pedal is pressed -- standard equipment on all of its cars.
The "brake override" software will also be added to the internal computers on some cars as they are brought in for recall repairs, a Toyota spokesman said."
Toyota announces gas pedal fix
This is extremely ENCOURAGING news!!!! Toyota may NOT have lost a potential customer after all.
Brand new Camry
Oak tree, you're in my way...
If you listen closely Lentz says "We are convinced" several times. That apparently was the speaking point he was told to deliver. When Laurer (bless his heart) kept pounding on the fact that toyota knew about reports earlier and then Laurer got at the point this may not be the real and only pair of causes for UIA, Lentz stumbled and said something about there might be others like the transmission or cruise control related. . But the real body language indicated was that he was stumbling. Laurer set him up to blame CTS by asking if they had any reports before CTS started making the pedal sensor but inherent in the question was admission that they had reports earlier if he said yes so as not to blame CTS alone. Instead he stumbled saying that the issue was complicated.
Now, it's either "complicated" or they are "convinced" that they know all about the issue. Lentz's body language says the first is the true answer.
So either they know for sure, are convinced, that this is the only cause or they are looking at other things like that transmission (strange blame connection for me) or cruise control. The cruise control is controlled by the computers. The transmission is a little more independent. Also recall they had trouble with the transmission lag earlier in this cycle.
I was hoping we'd see one of the Japan headquarters guys come out and explain.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So I bet the resale value mattered to you a lot when the insurance company was deciding how much to give you for your wrecked Mopar product. It was nearly 10 years old with 150K miles, any Honda could easily be worth $5K in that range. Of course.... how much you got depends as much on how bad the insurance company wants to gouge you as much as it does on the real resale value.
My boss was a big Chrysler guy till he switched to Volvo/Saab and his chryslers were pretty reliable too.
We all know you got a bad neon and none of us care anymore.
A review of Chrysler's market share will show that more people have had experiences similar to mine than you and your bosses. A review of that declining market share will show that more people care, and less think as you do.
They may punish Toyota with their next purchase, but after buying a vehicle (unless it's a Honda) that has 10X more hassles than their Toyota did, they'll be right back to Toyota with the NEXT one. So in the long run, Toyota wins, if in the short run, they lose a little.
Yes, I agree with everything you noticed in the Lentz video. I might even take it a step further by saying that it wouldn't surprise me to hear very soon that Mr. Lentz is leaving Toyota "to pursue other interests." In addition to what you chronicled from the interview, you probably also noticed his rather disingenuous response to Lauer's question regarding the cause of the problem being related to Toyota's goal of wanting to the be the #1 car builder in the world (he said, yes, probably, but Toyota wants to be #1 in quality, not in size, or something like that).
Thing is, should we be bashing Toyota for the sake of what we perceive as justice, or should be we bashing Toyota until the company comes around and finally does the right thing? If the CNN story is correct in its statement that Toyota will, indeed, be adding an override of the electronic throttle when the brake pedal is depressed, then maybe we should be satisfied that the company is coming around after all.
But that isn't the end of it, is it? In fact, it might be just the beginning of something much bigger.
I am the original owner of a 2008 Toyota 4Runner, a year and model that was not included in any of the accelerator recalls. I've noticed on occasion that the RPM surges by 200 to 300 for a second or two when standing at a red light. In checking the NHTSA database, I see there is a similar complaint filed (I haven't filed a complaint yet, but will). With all of the reading I've done in the past week, I'm thinking I might have one of those Toyotas that could also bolt by itself into the wild blue yonder some day. Should the owner who filed the NHTSA complaint, me and other owners of 4Runners with throttle-by-wire be entitled to the brake override fix? I think we should, but what kind of battle will we all have with Toyota to get it?
Those who have suffered damages from sudden unintended acceleration can fight their battles in court or otherwise find settlements with Toyota. For families who suffered injuries or lost loved ones because of this tragic defect, our sincerest condolences and best wishes in your quest for deserved justice.
But for the rest of us, the challenge will be to make sure the company makes the right fix, in a timely manner, and to ALL affected vehicles, not just the ones Toyota decided to include on its list; and to make said fix before we, too, are included among those families who have already experienced damages, injuries or deaths.
I'm willing to support the folks at Toyota in their effort to do just that, but will be critical of them if they don't. -Ken
Why is it so hard to accept that maybe only the tangled floormats and sticky gas pedal are the only problems? Why the speculation that there's got to be more to this, that there's a conspiracy afoot? I even see that Rocky's back in the fray on other threads after being away for an extended time.
I think some people just want to see Toyota go down in flames. As for me, when the time comes in the distant future to replace my Camrys and Frontier (probably after I retire and downsize to one or two vehicles at most), I'll survey the automotive landscape at that time and make an informed decision. But nothing's changing for me now. My son isn't afraid of his Prius either.