That is why I felt bad for him. He was not the right person to answer the interviewer questions
Frankly, I don't. If he is the corporate president and can't handle this, then perhaps he isn't the right person for the position. This is the current pressing issue for his company, so there is no excuse.
Living with a particular vehicle is something that is tough to measure. Although I have rented Camry's several times, and they were fine as a day to week long rental, I never liked the seats. For that reason alone, I would never have bought one of those cars. Obviously, they seem work just fine for many others.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I was using the star rating by the NHTSA for the 2010 Sonata and Camry. I was comparing top of the line V6 for both. The Feds rate them equal. I don't see any info on the 2011 for either here at Edmund's. While I do consider the IIHS tests valid. I prefer their statistic based ratings. Something to take into consideration is the Sonata is rated by the EPA as a large car and the Camry midsized. Even though the Camry is a bit longer. Camry has less passenger space and trunk space. I could care less about the HP ratings. Toyota shot themselves in the foot lying about HP a few years back.
When the 2011 models show up at the dealers we can compare them. I assume that 2011 models were being shown at the car show in Philly. I don't go to the one in San Diego. I'll be danged if I will pay to go see a bunch of advertising. They should pay the people that show up to those things. In my book it falls under a fool and his money are soon parted. I like to sit in a car not look over a rope at them.
Even as head of Toyota USA, he has several bosses. Usually, this kind of thing is handled by a PR person. Whatever his skill set, being in front of a camera in this situation, is not his strength. Do you want (name your favorite actor/actress) designing your vehicle software?
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I disagree. Matt Lauer to me seemed to be in classic "news" attack-dog mode, trying to get Lentz to trip up. Lentz remained fairly unflappable, except for the part about transmissions and cruise control affecting acceleration.
So you're admitting that the '10 Sonata isn't demonstrably safer than the '10 Camry in safety ratings?
Toyota shot themselves in the foot lying about HP a few years back.
Lying? How? The SAE tightened up the standards somewhat for reporting hp in the 2005 model year. The 4-cylinder (which I have) "dropped" something like 6 hp.
Something to take into consideration is the Sonata is rated by the EPA as a large car and the Camry midsized.
True as far as goes, but when you look at the actual numbers, there's very little difference: Camry has 101 cu. ft. of interior space and 15 cu. ft. of trunk space. For the Sonata, the corresponding numbers are 105 and 16 cu. ft. I wonder if the '11 Sonata will be smaller on the inside with that swoopy low roof.
The manual may do fine in your '05 Legacy, but the actual EPA ratings of the 2010 manual-shift Legacy suck, and are nowhere near the ratings of the Camry/Accord/Malibu/Fusion/Altima, stick shift OR automatic.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If you are going to quote from this New York Times article, use the full article.
I read the whole article; my analysis (which will have to be postponed because of the late hour) is going to focus on the Texas crash.
Note the very first part of the article where an Off Duty California Highway Patrol officer, with his family on board, is unable to control his vehicle...and the families final moments are caught on 911 tape. If an experienced Highway Patrol officer is unable to overcome this malfunction, what chance does the average Joe or Jane have???
We've discussed this crash many times. For one thing, we know that the dealer placed a rubber mat from a Lexus RX over the factory mat in the doomed Lexus ES. An older man (your "average Joe") borrowing the same car a few days before had trouble with the extra mat getting caught up in the gas pedal, causing unexpected acceleration. However, "Joe" was able to stop the car and yank away the mat, and the engine returned to idle speed. When he returned the car to the dealer, he complained about the incident to the receptionist (too bad he didn't notify the service manager). In any case, the extra mat was NOT removed before the fatal crash.
So you're admitting that the '10 Sonata isn't demonstrably safer than the '10 Camry in safety ratings?
Yes they match star wise. The Sonata does not suffer from SUA, making it the safer choice.
Lying? How?
Toyota did their HP ratings tests using premium gas. Then posted that number. While showing the car being designed for Regular unleaded. Which produced less HP. I am sure you remember them getting slapped for that.
I pulled up the pics on the 2011 Sonata and was not impressed. Ugly as the newly designed Mercedes. I don't like that look at all.
I am more of a square box SUV person. I think the best looking vehicle sold in the USA is the Ford Flex. I am above all practical. I have never bought a 4 door sedan for myself. Probably never will. I really hate driving the wife's Lexus. I keep hoping it will break so we can dump it. Still under 100k miles. We only drive it on Sunday to make sure the battery stays charged. It still looks better than 99% of the sedans sold today and it is over 20 years old.
I've always been a sedan person, although I've owned a couple of 2-door hatchbacks and one tation wagon (plus one small pickup now). I would never buy an SUV and I think the Flex is too boxy.
I think you're confusing two separate issues on the hp thing. One had to do with the changes made by the SAE; the other is Lexus specifies premium for the same V6 engine used by Toyota, where regular is specified. Premium ups the hp rating by a couple or 3 hp -- not much of a difference.
If memory serves, it was Hyundai and Mazda that sent owners a letter about overstating hp on some models (Santa Fe? RX-8?) and giving them some sort of compensation.
...If a Toyota's throttle sticks -- because of its floor mat or the CTS assembly or some other still undisclosed reason -- and there is another fatal accident, well, then Toyota's reversal of fortune may take decades to overcome. And if a child is killed as a result, Toyota may never recover.
In fact, there's a large mass out there that thinks Toyota is still lying. They think Toyota is making it all up or is using it as a diversionary tactic in an attempt to cover up a case of electronic gremlins taking over the car's computer, causing the vehicle to accelerate wildly.
These are the same people who thought there were spider eggs in Bubble Yum.
A few vocal people with Priuses and Siennas continue to maintain that neither announced recall applies to them. "The electronic throttle is to blame," they say. But such systems have redundancies designed into them. And I have a hard time buying in based on strident first-hand accounts of non-repeatable events supported with no further evidence.
Yep, that's what I've been talking about -- evidence. And he even agrees with me on the Lentz interview:
Toyota president and COO Jim Lentz sold it pretty well on the Today Show this morning...
Not sure about the others. It was the SAE setting tighter standards that shot Toyota down. I am sure Toyota was testing with Premium then selling the car with that HP using regular. Toyota has a history of stretching the truth. This is no different.
New SAE testing methods admonish Toyota, Honda to hold their horses
Hardest-hit Toyota model is its 2006 Camry (shown) with the 3.3-liter V6 option, which sees its horsepower rating drop from 210 to 190 hp.
Previous rating procedures were vague in many areas, allowing automakers a great deal of latitude in testing methodologies-- which type of fuel and oil were used, which components and accessories were running during testing, etc. In tightening the rating procedures, the SAE has adopted methods commonly used by U.S. manufacturers. As a consequence, vehicles produced by the Big Three remain largely unaffected by the change.
I'm part of the group that believe Toyota is lying about SUA. I think it is something expensive to change out and they are playing the odds. Other automakers have done it. Some probably got away with it.
It's not lying then in the hp case, its simply taking advantage of the rules which were formerly in place -- same as the guys in NASCAR do. The 4-cylinder was barely affected by the procedures change.
I suppose we have to disagree on that. I don't think in today's litigious climate, Toyota would spend billions as it is on a bogus fix on the chance that the "real" cause will remain concealed. It would be a huge gamble and not worth the torrent of bad publicity (and lawsuits) that would result.
What worries me is that too many people that crash from now on with a Toyota will say the car was at fault.
That is the issue as I see it. They are not spending more than pennies on a cheap shim that will do nothing. How is a shim going to stop corrosion. Which they claim is the throttle sticking problem. They may be able to fool the masses. I'm not buying into it. If Lentz were truly convinced they had it figured out, he would have shown how the fix was going to make all the Toyotas safer. He went into that interview clueless as to what was happening with SUA. Sure they can pin some on the floor mat problem. I doubt that many of the problems are related to anything to do with the throttle control. It was just an easy fix that seems logical to simple minds.
What worries me is that too many people that crash from now on with a Toyota will say the car was at fault.
That is a huge risk. If when they first started getting the complaints they had acted responsibly instead of blaming the drivers. They could have taken a look at how Audi solved the same problem. They should have started back in 2000 putting a brake over-ride on the throttle control. You see any German cars on that current list of SUA complaints? I think a lot of people really think Toyota is smarter than they really are. They are acting more like GM every day.
I fall on both sides ofthe fence. That is, I think that TOyota is fixing valid problems, but I also think there are other causes that these recalls aren't addressing.
basically, there were multiple problems, and the mat/shim/pedal fixes are quite likely legitimate resolutions to known problems, and certainly will make the cars safer overall.
But, I also believe that their have been problems related to the electronics somehow (that ABC story was pretty damning), and that will not be publically announced.
Most likely, whatever they can find or figure out will get put in as a running change to production, and where possible (that is, code) "snuck in" when the car is in for other service. The brake override is certainly a very good idea (and falls into this catagory, although that part won't be hidden), but who knows what else they might sneak in at the same time!
At least if the brake override works (glitch free), even if the root cause isn't fixed, the consequences will be much less severe.
That, and it will be much harder to brake torque launch your camry at the drag strip!
"Basically, there were multiple problems, and the mat/shim/pedal fixes are quite likely legitimate resolutions to known problems, and certainly will make the cars safer overall.
But, I also believe that there have been problems related to the electronics somehow (that ABC story was pretty damning), and that will not be publicly announced."
+1 here. And it doesn't help that Toyota's representatives have been doing such a lousy PR job with this issue. Yesterday's NBC Today show interview with ToyotaUSA president Jim Lentz was horrible.
My heart experienced sudden unintended acceleration when Matt Lauer asked him about the electronics of the throttle assembly, and Lentz replied that the electronics were thoroughly tested and had redundant backup and failsafe systems. But he failed to mention that the recalled vehicles don't have a brake override, perhaps the best proven failsafe system yet.
It will be interesting to see who Toyota sends to appear before the Oversight Committee in Congress this month. They may as well send Lentz (I imagine they consider him dispensable by now), then let him "retire" afterwards.
With regard to Jim Lentz, here's an interesting article from Jalopnik that alleges he "lied" twice. I'm not informed enough to tell if that's true or not, but here's the link:
But he failed to mention that the recalled vehicles don't have a brake override, perhaps the best proven failsafe system yet.
So what about all of the other manufacturers that don't have this brake override -- currently only Mercedes, BMW, VW/Audi (for obvious reasons), Nissan/Infiniti, and maybe some Chrysler models have it? This means the bulk of new cars being sold right now do NOT have this system. Should the feds mandate it?
So if Toyota switched from PA46 to PPS in 2007, why are there still problems in the CTS throttle requiring a shim?
To complicate matters more, Toyota claims they experienced problems with PPS. Mostly in right hand drive Aygo and Yaris vehicles. Do they use the CTS throttle in Japanese made vehicles sold in Japan also?
It sounds like Toyota needs to come up with a better design, not a kluged up fix.
So why doesn't GM have a brake over ride system? According to CR they don't have a problem with runaway cars killing people. Though it would be wise for them to incorporate such a device in the future. Same with Ford.
Gary, some of the drivers deserved blame. Some of those cases are driver error.
No doubt in my mind of that. Maybe 90% driver error. Though I don't consider a person not being able to compensate for a failure in the system as driver error. Driver error is hitting the gas pedal instead of the brake. That is irrelevant to a jury looking at pictures of maimed people and a sharp attorney playing mind games with them. Though from past cases, I would say Toyota hires some good (sleazy) attorneys as well. With all the hoopla surrounding this mess, Toyota will have a more difficult time winning cases that go to court. And I would expect many to be re-opened as well.
That was the photo I saw in the morning paper. That clears up about the condensation and increase in friction. I doubt that cars in many areas of the country have trouble with condensation on plastic parts sitting next to the heater blowing out warmed air. That never washed with me as an explanation.
Now it sounds like it's plastic that's less than durable used in a minimalization manner subject to high erosion due to minimal surface area.
>>Gary, some of the drivers deserved blame. Some of those cases are driver error. >No doubt in my mind of that. Maybe 90% driver error.
Just as in the Audi 5000 sudden acceleration, a few may have been due to drivers hitting the wrong pedal. I recall my aunt who was always an aggressive driver drove into the wall of the local funeral home's new location in her later days!
However, a short term unexpected acceleration might have the driver not knowing their foot were on the acceleration, but these long term runaways certain have drivers given a long enough period of time to discover their foot is on the wrong pedal.
LAUER: When did your company know, when did you personally know and other officials at your company know you had a serious problem with unwanted acceleration or slow response from acceleration?
LENTZ: In the case of the slow response, this most recent one, the first technical report that we had that we could duplicate the issue was in late October of last year.
Yeah, that's just wrong. According to the Defect Information Report filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) on January 21, 2010 (it can be seen in the gallery below), Toyota received complaints about this issue as far back as March 2007 and were able to duplicate a pedal "slow to return to the idle position" as far back as June 2008, which caused them to change the material they used to make the equipment. However, for some reason, Toyota didn't see this as a safety issue but just a "drivability issue."
One poster noted: Every day we seem to learn more of Toyota covering up, lying and willfully producing these dangerous cars.
The skeptic replied: We do? Really? Because it seems like we actually go a week or two worth of activity, followed by a few weeks of digestion and analysis on the part of all parties.
Do you have actual proof of a cover-up or lie? Because what we actually seem to have is a failure of oversight and an initial bad diagnosis that was subsequently followed up by a new one. This is like the claims of “obvious problems” with the ECU. If they’re so obvious, why can’t we reproduce them consistently and easily? Or it perhaps that armchair engineering and media hyperbole isn’t perhaps privvy of all the answers?
It always pays to read anything you see in the media with a dose of skepticism because it’s depressingly common to see the media grossly oversimplify issues (to the point of actual lies) or mischaracterize facts or make heartstring-tugging inferences as the story demands. The media business is, in fact, a business, and anything the media is pushing truly does deserve some scrutiny.
In the same vein, I just received the latest weekly issue of Automotive News. The headlines blare in much larger font than usual: TOYOTA'S CRASH AND BURN
Police are investigating whether a plastic mat covering the accelerator pedal of a Toyota Camry was a contributing factor in Monday night's four-vehicle crash.
Investigators found a hard plastic floor mat, like the kind with a desk chair, atop the factory floor mat and covering the accelerator pedal, police said.
Any of you guys put hard plastic onto your car floors? Maybe cars shouldn't have carpeting to begin with -- it's silly when you think of it logically. Then we wouldn't need mats at all. Why not color-keyed nubbed rubber floors?
I drove my old whitewater buddy's 199x F-150 pickup today. He special ordered it back in the early'90's and had a bit of trouble getting it. It has a vinyl floor.
One reason my buddy probably had trouble ordering his vinyl floor was because the dealer was afraid he'd back out when it arrived and they'd have trouble selling it.
I thought the explanation of the problem involved the following: the air being warmed was very moist and the moisture condensed on the cold(er) car parts like the pedal assembly. Whether they parts corroded or the moisture simply attracted and held dirt, the function of the pedal assembly ceased being smooth.
Your Honor, I wasn't speeding, Toyota did it. There I was minding my own business when zoom...
It's not a corrosion issue because the mating surfaces shown in the illustration are all plastic. But moisture, dirt, wear, or deformation of the mating surfaces could induce excessive friction. The added plate is supposed to keep the mating surfaces farther apart.
Your Honor, I wasn't speeding, Toyota did it. There I was minding my own business when zoom...
I can just imagine how many people will be pulling that stunt in the future if they crash, whatever the real reason.
>Police are investigating whether a plastic mat covering the accelerator pedal of a Toyota Camry was a contributing factor in Monday night's four-vehicle crash.
Sorry, but that defies logic.
A vehicle has an extra mat in it.
It wedges the accelerator AFTER toyota has cut off the bottom of the pedal in the recall the day before.
However, the car turned over during the accident: are we to assume that the mat swedging the pedal stayed in that swedging position during the car's being flipped?
Or isn't it more likely that during the flip the mat ended up being bounced around in the footwell and ended up on the accelerator.
Sounds like beat policemen thinking they are forensic accident investigators.
I don't think the pedal cut-off procedure has been started yet. They may have just told the guy to go ahead and drive his vehicle. If they had inspected they should have told them to get rid of the extra floor mat.
Way to go Ford! Wish I'd bought stock. And my fav. ,Nissan, is up 16%. When it comes time for a new PU, I'll be looking at the F150, perhaps the F100. That is a ways off yet.
LaHood confirmed that the government was investigating potential electronic problems in the Toyota vehicles but declined to discuss the ongoing investigation. A Transportation official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, said the government was taking a fresh look at the electronic throttle control system and potential electromagnetic interference.
"Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press that federal safety officials had to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led Toyota to recall millions of popular brands like Camry and Corolla. That included a visit to Toyota's offices in Japan to convince them to take action."
WOW.
"LaHood also said the government was considering civil penalties for Toyota over its handling of the recalls but declined to elaborate"
WOW.
"A Transportation official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, said the government was taking a fresh look at the electronic throttle control system and potential electromagnetic interference."
WOW.
"But a government survey of Lexus owners found dozens of reports of sudden acceleration and evidence that in some crashes owners had pressed hard on the brakes but failed to stop the vehicles."
Looks like there's still more to come in this fiasco. Revit's link to an AP interview suggests that the government thinks there more than just friction in one supplier's accelerator sensor. I've been saying all along there's more to it than floor mats and the accelerator alleged problem didn't fit, but some didn't want to accept that possibility. I'm glad to see the lexus model being factored in; toyota has been very careful not to mention lexus trying to shield the past image.
Comments
Frankly, I don't. If he is the corporate president and can't handle this, then perhaps he isn't the right person for the position. This is the current pressing issue for his company, so there is no excuse.
Although I have rented Camry's several times, and they were fine as a day to week long rental, I never liked the seats. For that reason alone, I would never have bought one of those cars.
Obviously, they seem work just fine for many others.
When the 2011 models show up at the dealers we can compare them. I assume that 2011 models were being shown at the car show in Philly. I don't go to the one in San Diego. I'll be danged if I will pay to go see a bunch of advertising. They should pay the people that show up to those things. In my book it falls under a fool and his money are soon parted. I like to sit in a car not look over a rope at them.
Usually, this kind of thing is handled by a PR person.
Whatever his skill set, being in front of a camera in this situation, is not his strength.
Do you want (name your favorite actor/actress) designing your vehicle software?
HUH???? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
If the President of Toyota cannot clearly explain the situation, who can??? :confuse:
Sorry, but this should not be so difficult which still leads me and others to believe, this story is FAR from over.
Toyota shot themselves in the foot lying about HP a few years back.
Lying? How? The SAE tightened up the standards somewhat for reporting hp in the 2005 model year. The 4-cylinder (which I have) "dropped" something like 6 hp.
Something to take into consideration is the Sonata is rated by the EPA as a large car and the Camry midsized.
True as far as goes, but when you look at the actual numbers, there's very little difference: Camry has 101 cu. ft. of interior space and 15 cu. ft. of trunk space. For the Sonata, the corresponding numbers are 105 and 16 cu. ft. I wonder if the '11 Sonata will be smaller on the inside with that swoopy low roof.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I read the whole article; my analysis (which will have to be postponed because of the late hour) is going to focus on the Texas crash.
Note the very first part of the article where an Off Duty California Highway Patrol officer, with his family on board, is unable to control his vehicle...and the families final moments are caught on 911 tape. If an experienced Highway Patrol officer is unable to overcome this malfunction, what chance does the average Joe or Jane have???
We've discussed this crash many times. For one thing, we know that the dealer placed a rubber mat from a Lexus RX over the factory mat in the doomed Lexus ES. An older man (your "average Joe") borrowing the same car a few days before had trouble with the extra mat getting caught up in the gas pedal, causing unexpected acceleration. However, "Joe" was able to stop the car and yank away the mat, and the engine returned to idle speed. When he returned the car to the dealer, he complained about the incident to the receptionist (too bad he didn't notify the service manager). In any case, the extra mat was NOT removed before the fatal crash.
Yes they match star wise. The Sonata does not suffer from SUA, making it the safer choice.
Lying? How?
Toyota did their HP ratings tests using premium gas. Then posted that number. While showing the car being designed for Regular unleaded. Which produced less HP. I am sure you remember them getting slapped for that.
I pulled up the pics on the 2011 Sonata and was not impressed. Ugly as the newly designed Mercedes. I don't like that look at all.
I am more of a square box SUV person. I think the best looking vehicle sold in the USA is the Ford Flex. I am above all practical. I have never bought a 4 door sedan for myself. Probably never will. I really hate driving the wife's Lexus. I keep hoping it will break so we can dump it. Still under 100k miles. We only drive it on Sunday to make sure the battery stays charged. It still looks better than 99% of the sedans sold today and it is over 20 years old.
I think you're confusing two separate issues on the hp thing. One had to do with the changes made by the SAE; the other is Lexus specifies premium for the same V6 engine used by Toyota, where regular is specified. Premium ups the hp rating by a couple or 3 hp -- not much of a difference.
If memory serves, it was Hyundai and Mazda that sent owners a letter about overstating hp on some models (Santa Fe? RX-8?) and giving them some sort of compensation.
The money shot:
...If a Toyota's throttle sticks -- because of its floor mat or the CTS assembly or some other still undisclosed reason -- and there is another fatal accident, well, then Toyota's reversal of fortune may take decades to overcome. And if a child is killed as a result, Toyota may never recover.
In fact, there's a large mass out there that thinks Toyota is still lying. They think Toyota is making it all up or is using it as a diversionary tactic in an attempt to cover up a case of electronic gremlins taking over the car's computer, causing the vehicle to accelerate wildly.
These are the same people who thought there were spider eggs in Bubble Yum.
A few vocal people with Priuses and Siennas continue to maintain that neither announced recall applies to them. "The electronic throttle is to blame," they say. But such systems have redundancies designed into them. And I have a hard time buying in based on strident first-hand accounts of non-repeatable events supported with no further evidence.
Yep, that's what I've been talking about -- evidence. And he even agrees with me on the Lentz interview:
Toyota president and COO Jim Lentz sold it pretty well on the Today Show this morning...
Thank you, Mechanic!
New SAE testing methods admonish Toyota, Honda to hold their horses
Hardest-hit Toyota model is its 2006 Camry (shown) with the 3.3-liter V6 option, which sees its horsepower rating drop from 210 to 190 hp.
Previous rating procedures were vague in many areas, allowing automakers a great deal of latitude in testing methodologies-- which type of fuel and oil were used, which components and accessories were running during testing, etc. In tightening the rating procedures, the SAE has adopted methods commonly used by U.S. manufacturers. As a consequence, vehicles produced by the Big Three remain largely unaffected by the change.
What worries me is that too many people that crash from now on with a Toyota will say the car was at fault.
That is a huge risk. If when they first started getting the complaints they had acted responsibly instead of blaming the drivers. They could have taken a look at how Audi solved the same problem. They should have started back in 2000 putting a brake over-ride on the throttle control. You see any German cars on that current list of SUA complaints? I think a lot of people really think Toyota is smarter than they really are. They are acting more like GM every day.
basically, there were multiple problems, and the mat/shim/pedal fixes are quite likely legitimate resolutions to known problems, and certainly will make the cars safer overall.
But, I also believe that their have been problems related to the electronics somehow (that ABC story was pretty damning), and that will not be publically announced.
Most likely, whatever they can find or figure out will get put in as a running change to production, and where possible (that is, code) "snuck in" when the car is in for other service. The brake override is certainly a very good idea (and falls into this catagory, although that part won't be hidden), but who knows what else they might sneak in at the same time!
At least if the brake override works (glitch free), even if the root cause isn't fixed, the consequences will be much less severe.
That, and it will be much harder to brake torque launch your camry at the drag strip!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But, I also believe that there have been problems related to the electronics somehow (that ABC story was pretty damning), and that will not be publicly announced."
+1 here. And it doesn't help that Toyota's representatives have been doing such a lousy PR job with this issue. Yesterday's NBC Today show interview with ToyotaUSA president Jim Lentz was horrible.
My heart experienced sudden unintended acceleration when Matt Lauer asked him about the electronics of the throttle assembly, and Lentz replied that the electronics were thoroughly tested and had redundant backup and failsafe systems. But he failed to mention that the recalled vehicles don't have a brake override, perhaps the best proven failsafe system yet.
It will be interesting to see who Toyota sends to appear before the Oversight Committee in Congress this month. They may as well send Lentz (I imagine they consider him dispensable by now), then let him "retire" afterwards.
http://jalopnik.com/5461734/how-toyotas-president-lied-to-matt-lauer
So what about all of the other manufacturers that don't have this brake override -- currently only Mercedes, BMW, VW/Audi (for obvious reasons), Nissan/Infiniti, and maybe some Chrysler models have it? This means the bulk of new cars being sold right now do NOT have this system. Should the feds mandate it?
You misunderstand the problem; the issue is excessive friction between two plastic parts -- there is no corrosion.
See here for a detailed explanation and photos. I don't necessarily agree with the article's conclusion though.
Some of those cases are driver error.
To complicate matters more, Toyota claims they experienced problems with PPS. Mostly in right hand drive Aygo and Yaris vehicles. Do they use the CTS throttle in Japanese made vehicles sold in Japan also?
It sounds like Toyota needs to come up with a better design, not a kluged up fix.
So why doesn't GM have a brake over ride system? According to CR they don't have a problem with runaway cars killing people. Though it would be wise for them to incorporate such a device in the future. Same with Ford.
No doubt in my mind of that. Maybe 90% driver error. Though I don't consider a person not being able to compensate for a failure in the system as driver error. Driver error is hitting the gas pedal instead of the brake. That is irrelevant to a jury looking at pictures of maimed people and a sharp attorney playing mind games with them. Though from past cases, I would say Toyota hires some good (sleazy) attorneys as well. With all the hoopla surrounding this mess, Toyota will have a more difficult time winning cases that go to court. And I would expect many to be re-opened as well.
That was the photo I saw in the morning paper. That clears up about the condensation and increase in friction. I doubt that cars in many areas of the country have trouble with condensation on plastic parts sitting next to the heater blowing out warmed air. That never washed with me as an explanation.
Now it sounds like it's plastic that's less than durable used in a minimalization manner subject to high erosion due to minimal surface area.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
>No doubt in my mind of that. Maybe 90% driver error.
Just as in the Audi 5000 sudden acceleration, a few may have been due to drivers hitting the wrong pedal. I recall my aunt who was always an aggressive driver drove into the wall of the local funeral home's new location in her later days!
However, a short term unexpected acceleration might have the driver not knowing their foot were on the acceleration, but these long term runaways certain have drivers given a long enough period of time to discover their foot is on the wrong pedal.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Looks like someone else's analysis determined he was lying as well.
http://jalopnik.com/5461734/how-toyotas-president-lied-to-matt-lauer
LAUER: When did your company know, when did you personally know and other officials at your company know you had a serious problem with unwanted acceleration or slow response from acceleration?
LENTZ: In the case of the slow response, this most recent one, the first technical report that we had that we could duplicate the issue was in late October of last year.
Yeah, that's just wrong. According to the Defect Information Report filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) on January 21, 2010 (it can be seen in the gallery below), Toyota received complaints about this issue as far back as March 2007 and were able to duplicate a pedal "slow to return to the idle position" as far back as June 2008, which caused them to change the material they used to make the equipment. However, for some reason, Toyota didn't see this as a safety issue but just a "drivability issue."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Every day we seem to learn more of Toyota covering up, lying and willfully producing these dangerous cars.
The skeptic replied:
We do? Really? Because it seems like we actually go a week or two worth of activity, followed by a few weeks of digestion and analysis on the part of all parties.
Do you have actual proof of a cover-up or lie? Because what we actually seem to have is a failure of oversight and an initial bad diagnosis that was subsequently followed up by a new one. This is like the claims of “obvious problems” with the ECU. If they’re so obvious, why can’t we reproduce them consistently and easily? Or it perhaps that armchair engineering and media hyperbole isn’t perhaps privvy of all the answers?
It always pays to read anything you see in the media with a dose of skepticism because it’s depressingly common to see the media grossly oversimplify issues (to the point of actual lies) or mischaracterize facts or make heartstring-tugging inferences as the story demands. The media business is, in fact, a business, and anything the media is pushing truly does deserve some scrutiny.
More here.
In the same vein, I just received the latest weekly issue of Automotive News. The headlines blare in much larger font than usual: TOYOTA'S CRASH AND BURN
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/toyota-floor-mat-may-have-co- ntributed-to-crash-st-petersburg-police-say/1070026
Police are investigating whether a plastic mat covering the accelerator pedal of a Toyota Camry was a contributing factor in Monday night's four-vehicle crash.
Investigators found a hard plastic floor mat, like the kind with a desk chair, atop the factory floor mat and covering the accelerator pedal, police said.
Any of you guys put hard plastic onto your car floors? Maybe cars shouldn't have carpeting to begin with -- it's silly when you think of it logically. Then we wouldn't need mats at all. Why not color-keyed nubbed rubber floors?
Just toss the wet boating gear on the floor.
Cannot imagine they stick with the current one:
Toyota - "Suddenly" Moving Forward
Good pic of the fix in Toyota Announces Remedy for Sticking Throttle Recall (Edmunds Daily)
I thought the explanation of the problem involved the following: the air being warmed was very moist and the moisture condensed on the cold(er) car parts like the pedal assembly. Whether they parts corroded or the moisture simply attracted and held dirt, the function of the pedal assembly ceased being smooth.
Your Honor, I wasn't speeding, Toyota did it. There I was minding my own business when zoom...
John
Your Honor, I wasn't speeding, Toyota did it. There I was minding my own business when zoom...
I can just imagine how many people will be pulling that stunt in the future if they crash, whatever the real reason.
Early reports indicate that Toyota's sales numbers for January are lousy. Ford blew the doors off though.
Sorry, but that defies logic.
A vehicle has an extra mat in it.
It wedges the accelerator AFTER toyota has cut off the bottom of the pedal in the recall the day before.
However, the car turned over during the accident: are we to assume that the mat swedging the pedal stayed in that swedging position during the car's being flipped?
Or isn't it more likely that during the flip the mat ended up being bounced around in the footwell and ended up on the accelerator.
Sounds like beat policemen thinking they are forensic accident investigators.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When it comes time for a new PU, I'll be looking at the F150, perhaps the F100.
That is a ways off yet.
Cheers!
Investigating potential electronic problems in the Toyota vehicles
LaHood confirmed that the government was investigating potential electronic problems in the Toyota vehicles but declined to discuss the ongoing investigation. A Transportation official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, said the government was taking a fresh look at the electronic throttle control system and potential electromagnetic interference.
"Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press that federal safety officials had to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led Toyota to recall millions of popular brands like Camry and Corolla. That included a visit to Toyota's offices in Japan to convince them to take action."
WOW.
"LaHood also said the government was considering civil penalties for Toyota over its handling of the recalls but declined to elaborate"
WOW.
"A Transportation official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, said the government was taking a fresh look at the electronic throttle control system and potential electromagnetic interference."
WOW.
"But a government survey of Lexus owners found dozens of reports of sudden acceleration and evidence that in some crashes owners had pressed hard on the brakes but failed to stop the vehicles."
Looks like there's still more to come in this fiasco. Revit's link to an AP interview suggests that the government thinks there more than just friction in one supplier's accelerator sensor. I've been saying all along there's more to it than floor mats and the accelerator alleged problem didn't fit, but some didn't want to accept that possibility. I'm glad to see the lexus model being factored in; toyota has been very careful not to mention lexus trying to shield the past image.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,