"Toyota said the recalls could dent global demand for Toyota models by 100,000 vehicles."
I just read this today. Toyota thinks that they will only lose 100,000 sales this year over all the safety recalls. If that is true I will let their stock go down another $5.00 then buy a bunch but I am afraid that not only are they repeating what the big 3 did in the 80s but they are also as arrogant as them also. Time will tell if this is just a blimp in the radar or the beginning of a long slide.
I think all the speculation that it must be the soft/firm/hardware is routed in people's bad experiences with their Microsoft-based home or work computers.
That is probably the #1 example people are familiar with, but the problem extends into everything that has software. There are bugs in software; sometimes minor, sometimes moderate, sometimes major. I have a 2 year old Apple computer in my house, and that is not bug-free. I've worked as an engineer for 25 years, and I'm very familiar with design problems. I pickup many drawings, procedures, and files that are rev. 15, or rev DE. This is because there are weaknesses in the original designs.
And THE FACT is that companies move products as quickly as they can to market. The pressure is to get to market before the competition, and make money. That means there is a limited amount of time for testing, which is usually inadequate.
Quote of the Day: It's not IF a product is going to fail, it's only a matter of WHEN and HOW it fails.
And THE FACT is that companies move products as quickly as they can to market.
That is the key to this whole mess for Toyota. Their quite obvious obsession to be number one in the World has led them to cut corners and cost where ever possible. Just the fact that you can buy two Camrys sold from the same dealer with many parts that are totally different is not confidence building from a consumer's point of view. For one thing it makes stocking repair parts very difficult. No wonder cars sit at dealers for a month or longer waiting on parts. I thought those days were long gone until it took Toyota a month to get a replacement NAV for my 2007 Sequoia. They had to get it direct from the manufacturer (Denso) in India.
Think about this you Toyota salesmen. When people are able to buy again you will probably be faced with customers wanting a new Camry with only parts from manufacturers not implicated in this fiasco.
Customer looks at the VIN and says "you got one that starts with a J"? "The others are dangerous and I don't want to take the chance".
That was my thinking exactly. This guy has FOUR PRIUS and probably been responsible with his high exposure for several hundred sales. When he tried to express his opinions at the lower levels of Toyota he was given the runaround much like you or I would get from a Toyota dealer. When it makes National news they give him Lentz's private phone number. Woz probably has more patents on hardware, software and electronics than anyone at Toyota. Or any department. Just one of many mistakes Toyota has made throughout this ongoing saga.
Bottom line, Woz is right about the cruise on the Prius being flawed. A very dangerous design error on their super duper cruise control. Ever tried to read the manual going 115 MPH down the Interstate?
Toyota has received a lot of negative publicity for its sticking accelerator pedal and floormat recalls, and now brake problems with the Prius can be officially added to the list. While there were reports of some serious concern about the brakes in the best-selling hybrid, Toyota has now admitted that there are indeed known problems with the car's anti-lock braking system.
A Toyota spokesperson said on Thursday that Prius models sold before the end of January have this brake system design problem, but that the problem has been corrected on models sold since then, according to the Associated Press. The announcement follows Japanese and U.S. officials ordering the company yesterday to investigate around 180 claims of braking problems in the 2010 Prius.
TOKYO (AP) - Toyota acknowledged design problems with the brakes in its prized Prius, adding to the catalog of woes for the Japanese automaker as it reels from massive gas-pedal recalls in the U.S.
Toyota Motor Corp. said Thursday it found design problems with the antilock brake system and corrected them for Prius models sold since late January, including those being shipped overseas.
But the company said it was still investigating how to inform customers who had bought them earlier. Nothing was decided on that front for Prius gas-electric hybrids sold outside Japan, according to Toyota.
Complaints about braking problems in the Prius - the world's top-selling hybrid - have been reported in the U.S. and Japan, combining to some 180, and come amid a global recall of nearly 4.5 million vehicles for faulty gas pedals.
Several accidents have been reported and wrongly attributed to driver error.
180 instances out of all the Priuses sold worldwide? Almost like nothing as a percentage.
And as always, you can't definitively state "all the reported accidents were due to brake design problems" no more than you can say "every single accident is always driver error."
Never owned a Toyota so I can't really tell you how good or bad their cars or service are
Exactly, no offense but GM fans of your caliber have the same attitude. Unfortunately experiences like these hold zero merit in the real world.
It's cool that you like what you like. But it is also acceptable that others have a different impression than you based on actual ownership.
I'm a Ford guy who hasn't owned a Ford product in over 10 years. Got burned by an Explorer (not uncommon with those models). Had a very good one before it so in my book Ford is 1 for 2 . Not going to praising thier death when they recalled millions over the Cruise Control recall or Pintos or (ironically) Rollovers...
Contrast that and I've never owned a Toyota product, so the jury is still out personally on whether or not the product lives up to its reputation. But I'll make the anecdote (like GM fans do quite often) that I know such and such or whomever who owns a Toyota product with hundreds of thousands of miles and never had a problem. Oh ya, I know plenty of them. :shades:
The thing is that based on the past 3 decades worth of product reviews and the (much maligned) CR or any other quality reporting firms out there, these people aren't too far off from reality. Toyota products really were the pinnacles of quality and reliability while the Domestics were um, ahem...
Not so good? :confuse:
Shoot, Google "Road to Redemption" GM sometime. Putz and the goons up in Detroilet published a well known but forgotten letter to us telling us that anything built before 2004 (when the letters came out) was eh, not so good... OOPS, Sorry come back we're better now. Then before this failure grabbed over 50 billion in taxpayer money just to keep the doors open, they reintroduced the same letter for a short period begging us to give them yet another chance.
Uh huh, yup it's us non-GM fans that are delusional... The stuff has been perfect even though Government Motors came out told us it wasn't.
I'd still buy a Toyota long before giving a GM product a chance.
180 instances out of all the Priuses sold worldwide?
You are in denial again. Toyota has admitted their 2010 Prius brakes are flawed. Their ABS does not work in all instances making braking with the Prius a hazard.
I'd still buy a Buick or Cadillac versus a Toyoya or Lexus. It has nothing to do with the recent problems at Toyota. I just don't like their styling, (or lack therof) and the soulless driving experience and bland image. There are plenty of domestic and even foreign alternatives I find much more attractive. I currently and have owned Ford products in the past and a Chrysler that turned out to be one of the best cars I've ever owned.
And that is perfectly reasonable. I don't find their product all that exciting either (minus the IS lineup or the upcoming AE-86) but I have driven a few of them and there are a few liek the RAV4 V6, Camry SE V6 and Matrix xR which are a quite fun to drive actually.
According to a guy on CR that was being interviewed on the Today Show this morning, the Prius brake problem resulted in a small 1 second delay with the brakes engaging when hit. That 1 second does sound small, but going 60 MPH, that 1 second delay will significantly extend the braking distance.
60 mph = 1 mile/minute = 5280 ft / min = 88 ft/sec.
Normal braking for a car like the Prius from 60mph is probably 150 ft. So that 88 ft. is over a 50% increase, to put the extra distance in perspective.
I can only assume that the self-victimized drivers have avoided neutral like a late-night comedian. Or they’re too panicked to make that simple selection with the gear lever. Or it could be that some drivers have never ventured into neutral and have no idea of its remarkable attributes as a non-gear.
You want to know how many "Prius brake actions" are performed daily, worldwide, without incident?
Far, far, FAR many more millions than any who might have a 1-second delay.
And it was not ALL Priuses anyway - just certain ones produced at a certain time. Toyota found the flaw mere months after the first car was sold with the flaw.
The BIG problem with Toyota has finally come to the front - for years they have denied ANY problems with their vehicles believing their own PR that they could not fail... oh how the mighty have fallen and for good reason, its about time too!
For years Toyota's have had quality problems, but they deny deny deny until finally they are "pressured" by the US Gov't to face the facts and fix their quality issues! RECALL... the American auto companies are forced to own up to their quality issues and its about time Toyota did too!! They are NOT as perfect as the fools who buy their crap are lead to believe... WAKE UP!!!!
Its time to STOP giving Toyota (and the Japanese car companes) a "blank check" for their "perceived" quality... the American car companies (Ford, ) are just as good if not better... go drive one and see for yourself, but open your eyes first!
>You want to know how many "Prius brake actions" are performed daily, worldwide, without incident?
That logic really doesn't wash as an excuse for a car problem.
Do you know how many Explorers drove without rolling over? Do you know how many Fords with cruise control didn't catch on fire every day? Do you know how many GM trucks didn't catch on fire every day from a gas tank that's alongside the bed? Do you know how many...
Nationalism when it comes to cars is kinda "outdated" my friend.
All foreign carmakers employ Americans and many nationalities.
Buy the car that fits your budget and our needs, whatever the maker is. Don't think because your "American" you need to buy an "American" car.
Remember: a survey a couple of years ago made the Toyota Camry one of the "most America-built" cars on the roads in the USA because of where the parts were made and where most of them were assembled.
Toyota had a long run of "tooting it's own horn" because it was WELL-DESERVED. Toyota made millions of virtually defect-free vehicles, and deserved it's bulletproof reputation.
'David Champion, director of automobile testing for Consumer Reports magazine, said the reaction to the recall was overblown.
"When you look at the statistics we are putting an awful lot of effort on a very small risk," he said.
"There has been something like 2,000 complaints of unintended acceleration in some 20 million Toyota vehicles -- it's almost like trying to find a needle in a haystack."
Champion lamented as "unfortunate" that it took the death of an off-duty California state trooper and three members of his family to prompt Toyota to issue a mass recall in September to address the problem.
But he said a congressional investigation was an "overreaction" and noted that the "sticky" pedal problem that caused Toyota to halt production and sales of eight models last month was not linked to any accidents or injuries.
"I'm sure it's going to hurt Toyota in the short term over the next year or so," Champion said.
"But if their products are as good as they have been in the past, we're going to see that Toyota's going to bounce back as Ford has from the Firestone (tire recall) fiasco."
In the broader sense of the statement to which I was making my point, the logic was fine.
My point is that "a few hundred xxxxx model cars with a specific problem" does not mean you should condemn all the thousands of other identical models without said problem.
"Despite quality issues, Toyota said its profits in its third quarter, which ended Dec. 31, rose 10 percent. In fact, Toyota's quarterly profit of $1.7 billion significantly beat analysts' forecasts. A year ago, Toyota reported a loss for ther quarter."
Of course it was. There is a lot to be gained from Toyotas blunders. That's the beauty (or curse) of the internet. Anyone can post stories and get sensitive folks into a panic. Edmunds and other sites have been bombarded for years with propoganda and agendas to swing buyers back to the domestics. There are some who are so transparent it isn't even a challenge to figure out.
I wonder (and fear) just how many suckers there will be who go and carelessly dump their Toyotas for a song to a grubby dealer because of the paranoia that is being spread? :surprise:
>Edmunds and other sites have been bombarded for years with propoganda and agendas to swing buyers back to the domestics. There are some who are so transparent it isn't even a challenge to figure out.
Edmunds and other sites have been bombarded for years with propoganda and agendas to swing buyers into the foreign cars. There are some who are so transparent it isn't even a challenge to figure out
The GM discussions have some of those who continuously post anti-GM and pro whatever is their most reliable or favorite foreign brand in their own mind--as long as the hosts let them continue to post.
Hmmmmm. Do we think toyota may have handled things in a way through the 7 years that have made this even worse than it might have been if they had started working on curing the Runaway Acceleration Problems much, much earlier. Lentz said in NBC interview it was last October when they first thought there was a real problem. :sick:
No one can say toyota is getting a bum RAP here (runaway acceleration problem).
Toyota are in a mess. This situation was poorly handled by those at the top. Ostrich springs to mind. They have put themselves back 5-10 years as a trusted manufacturer. 1. Why no national TV time by Toyota to explain the true facts. 2. Where is the top man from Tokyo !! scared to face the press. 3. The Top guy in the US is not capable of dealing with this crisis. 4. Dealers are no help, will customers cars be repaired before stock? 5. Toyota have the unions and La Hood working against them on behalf of GM. Toyota get on the TV and say sorry and "we will put it right" Get some fantastic discounts and lease deals out there and be prepared to loose a lot of revenue. Me I would not purchase a new Toyota the residuals scare me. Stop scam and deciptfull practices by distributors, underbody treatments - paint protection - heated seats in Florida - Stop scamming your customers and come clean. Also why does an oil change special offer for a Solara cost $15 more than that of a Ford Explorer done at a Ford dealership - both synthetic oil !!
Of the new vehicles I have owned over the last 5 years Toyota is far and away the most expensive to service. $53 for an oil change with Dino oil. When I asked about synthetic they said it would be $75 more. I find that very expensive. And the price was the same in CA as it was on my oil change in Indiana. GM always sent me a coupon for a free oil change. My VW Passat TDI was $50 using their specific synthetic oil. Good for 10,000 miles between oil changes. Toyota sets you up for every 3000 miles on their little window sticker. I change at 5000 miles as per the book that came with the vehicle.
After Toyota gets this UA behind them they need to do a lot of surprise visits to their dealerships. Especially here in CA. See why they are getting a bad reputation for dealer service.
My point is that "a few hundred xxxxx model cars with a specific problem" does not mean you should condemn all the thousands of other identical models without said problem.
Nope. When a problem is found even with a single tainted container of Tylenol, peanut butter or any other product that can cause even a single future death, the whole bunch comes back. Say Tylenol "says well there's only a few more tainted bottles out there, it's a waste of time". If one or more people then die from tainted Tylenol, it will cost the companies hundreds of millions of $'s in lawsuits, ruin their image, and probably result in prison time for those callously discounting that - their decision only killed a few more people!
You have a strange way of looking at things sometimes, just because it probably isn't going to affect you.
Good analogy. And as a result food and drug products had to have a seal put on so the customer knows they are getting food and drugs that were not tampered with.
Toyota has taken the stance that a few dead bodies are not enough to warrant massive changes to their vehicles DBW systems. I hope the Feds do not agree.
I can't help but think our wonderful regulators are blowing this way out of proportion to boost sales of US cars and crush their main competitor. Toyota still builds better / safer vehicles than we do in the US. And now this recent talk about having Toyota install a brake stop in case a car goes out of control. PLEASE, haven't you heard of the ignition switch ? Why not turn it off if you think your on the brake when your foot is really on the accelerator ? This reminds me of the old Audi bashing days... makes me sick !
I wish they'd identify the problem before trying to fix it.
I just sold my '06 Avalon XLS w/NAV/JBL/sunroof/etc. Four years old, 46k miles and got $16.5k for it. Thank you Edmunds tmv. Luckily, my coworker and her husband are able to maintain their perspective about the whole hysteria surrounding Toyota..
How come nobody ever says, "I stepped on the gas by mistake and held the pedal down thinking it was the brake?" We all know why - embarrassment. Or they didn't know they did it. We know for a fact the human computer is frequently flawed, don't we?
Now I can payoff my 2010 Highlander Limited. Have they recalled the made in Japan Highlanders yet?
No recall on the ones built in Japan because they didn't use the part sourced from CTS like the US built cars. Wonder why that wasn't in the news. maybe they wanted a bigger story to sway US buyers away from the brand ??
Here's a fact from Richmond, Virginia. I sold my '06 Avalon XLS at noon to a coworker as soon as her husband brought it back from his test drive. While he was out he decided that he liked it as much as she did and HE CALLED A LOCAL DEALER AND MADE AN APPOINTMENT FOR MONDAY TO GET THE PEDAL SHIMMED. I was going to do it while they were on a 10-day cruise, but they decided to buy it today. :shades:
Does that answer your question?
The dealer I use on the north side of the river is, or will be, open 24 hours a day to do the work.
John
P.S. - His dealer would have done it sooner, but we're supposed to get snow in the morning starting at 7:00 and continuing into Saturday.
Given that Consumer Reports ratings are based on public response to their questionannaires, I predict that next time Ford (along with Honda and perhaps Hyundai) will pass Toyota in overall recommenations.
Anyone know when the next consumer reports auto issue is due?
You need a Max Clifford or the like, someone who can stop the spin.
I own a Toyota and like the vehicle but the service at the dealer's suck. They are expensive and the paperwork and administration takes longer than the oil change. My last visit I could not shut the guy up about having my wipers checked out as the rubbber does hard !! Perhaps they will not have time for that stuff any more. Did you see the technician on CNN all he could really focus on was the overtime.
larsb - I wasn't aware they'd already unrecommended, thanks.
However, what I really meant was in 6 months time, with all this (I'm assuming) behind us. The residual impact on their brand and assumed reliability.
Whenever they do their next big overall auto issue and survey, Toyota's going to take a dive in the ratings. ( I predict)
Given the number of buyers who refer to Consumer Reports to make an informed purchase decision, the fact that Toyota is no longer as highly ranked will cause them to take their busienss elsewhere. (Again, my prediction).
My point is that even if this is resolved quickly, the impact will be long lasting. And by the way, I don't believe it will be resolved quickly. Going before Congress is not good for "resolving quickly", but rather "drag this out".
How come nobody ever says, "I stepped on the gas by mistake and held the pedal down thinking it was the brake?"
---------------------------------------
Because that is not what initiates the issue. It IS likely that is what got dozens of people killed though.
Some Toyotas have an Unintended Acceleration problem NOT related to driver error. After the Unintended Acceleration occurs is when the driver error gets them killed.
And some customers can be so dumb !! Cant help folks who dont realise that you can always go to a Liffy Jube for an oil change ! And post us back on that Jiffy experience.What a great job they did ?? :confuse: :sick:
In response to government pressure both in North America and in Toyota’s home market of Japan, the automaker says that has been aware of the issue and that a recall might be possible. Now, an early report out of a Japanese newspaper is claiming that a 277,000 vehicle global recall is imminent.
Toyota’s quality manager, Hiroyuki Yokoyama, told reporters that Toyota became aware of an issue with the Prius losing braking power when traveling on rough roads, over potholes and even on ice. Toyota says that it began producing a fixed version of the Prius models which have been sold since late January. Toyota is officially still debating what to do about Prius models currently on the road. The issue affects only Toyota’s latest 2010 Prius, which was redesigned for the model year and has been on sale for less than a year.
Now, the Nikkei newspaper is reporting that Toyota has decided to recall a total of 277,000 Prius vehicles, with approximately 100,000 of them sold in the U.S. market. NHTSA is also investigating roughly 37,000 2010 Prius models already on the road in the U.S. Toyota has not officially acknowledged the recall at this time, but the Nikkei newspaper reported that Toyota will be filing the official recalls with both the Japanese Transport Ministry and NHTSA.
Yokoyama described the issue as a “a slight unresponsiveness” in the pedal that occurs only during braking on icy or rough roads. It has been linked to at least one accident in Japan.
The fact that Toyota was aware of the problem and implemented a fix into production without notifying current owners is cause for concern, according to Japan’s transportation ministry. The government agency is launching an investigation into Toyota’s response to the complaints it received.
Toyota’s fix Toyota says that the issue is a software problem with the anti-lock braking system. It is unclear whether the fix was implemented during the production process or as part of a software update.
The automaker has not decided how it will fix already sold 2010 Prius models.
Denting Toyota’s image While the automaker’s massive, global accelerator pedal recall of many of its most popular models hasn’t exactly been an image booster, analysts are even more concerned about what a Prius safety recall could do for Toyota. The high-mpg Prius is Toyota’s technology and image flagship, even though it isn’t the automaker’s sales leader.
“The Prius is such a popular car for Toyota. The timing could be very damaging,” said Kohei Takahashi, a Tokyo-based analyst for J.P. Morgan, in an interview with The New York Times. “If there is a recall, Toyota could see Prius sales fall, at least in the short run.”
Comments
I just read this today. Toyota thinks that they will only lose 100,000 sales this year over all the safety recalls. If that is true I will let their stock go down another $5.00 then buy a bunch but I am afraid that not only are they repeating what the big 3 did in the 80s but they are also as arrogant as them also. Time will tell if this is just a blimp in the radar or the beginning of a long slide.
That is probably the #1 example people are familiar with, but the problem extends into everything that has software. There are bugs in software; sometimes minor, sometimes moderate, sometimes major. I have a 2 year old Apple computer in my house, and that is not bug-free.
I've worked as an engineer for 25 years, and I'm very familiar with design problems. I pickup many drawings, procedures, and files that are rev. 15, or rev DE. This is because there are weaknesses in the original designs.
And THE FACT is that companies move products as quickly as they can to market. The pressure is to get to market before the competition, and make money. That means there is a limited amount of time for testing, which is usually inadequate.
Quote of the Day: It's not IF a product is going to fail, it's only a matter of WHEN and HOW it fails.
That is the key to this whole mess for Toyota. Their quite obvious obsession to be number one in the World has led them to cut corners and cost where ever possible. Just the fact that you can buy two Camrys sold from the same dealer with many parts that are totally different is not confidence building from a consumer's point of view. For one thing it makes stocking repair parts very difficult. No wonder cars sit at dealers for a month or longer waiting on parts. I thought those days were long gone until it took Toyota a month to get a replacement NAV for my 2007 Sequoia. They had to get it direct from the manufacturer (Denso) in India.
Think about this you Toyota salesmen. When people are able to buy again you will probably be faced with customers wanting a new Camry with only parts from manufacturers not implicated in this fiasco.
Customer looks at the VIN and says "you got one that starts with a J"? "The others are dangerous and I don't want to take the chance".
It's over now, but for a while, it was a well-deserved "we got it, so we flaunting it" period.
Bottom line, Woz is right about the cruise on the Prius being flawed. A very dangerous design error on their super duper cruise control. Ever tried to read the manual going 115 MPH down the Interstate?
A prius that can go 115 MPH? Must have been a long steep downhill.....
Direct from Tokyo 12 minutes ago:
Toyota has received a lot of negative publicity for its sticking accelerator pedal and floormat recalls, and now brake problems with the Prius can be officially added to the list. While there were reports of some serious concern about the brakes in the best-selling hybrid, Toyota has now admitted that there are indeed known problems with the car's anti-lock braking system.
A Toyota spokesperson said on Thursday that Prius models sold before the end of January have this brake system design problem, but that the problem has been corrected on models sold since then, according to the Associated Press. The announcement follows Japanese and U.S. officials ordering the company yesterday to investigate around 180 claims of braking problems in the 2010 Prius.
TOKYO (AP) - Toyota acknowledged design problems with the brakes in its prized Prius, adding to the catalog of woes for the Japanese automaker as it reels from massive gas-pedal recalls in the U.S.
Toyota Motor Corp. said Thursday it found design problems with the antilock brake system and corrected them for Prius models sold since late January, including those being shipped overseas.
But the company said it was still investigating how to inform customers who had bought them earlier. Nothing was decided on that front for Prius gas-electric hybrids sold outside Japan, according to Toyota.
Complaints about braking problems in the Prius - the world's top-selling hybrid - have been reported in the U.S. and Japan, combining to some 180, and come amid a global recall of nearly 4.5 million vehicles for faulty gas pedals.
Several accidents have been reported and wrongly attributed to driver error.
See test:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/4890#MSG4890
And as always, you can't definitively state "all the reported accidents were due to brake design problems" no more than you can say "every single accident is always driver error."
Exactly, no offense but GM fans of your caliber have the same attitude. Unfortunately experiences like these hold zero merit in the real world.
It's cool that you like what you like. But it is also acceptable that others have a different impression than you based on actual ownership.
I'm a Ford guy who hasn't owned a Ford product in over 10 years. Got burned by an Explorer (not uncommon with those models). Had a very good one before it so in my book Ford is 1 for 2
Contrast that and I've never owned a Toyota product, so the jury is still out personally on whether or not the product lives up to its reputation. But I'll make the anecdote (like GM fans do quite often) that I know such and such or whomever who owns a Toyota product with hundreds of thousands of miles and never had a problem. Oh ya, I know plenty of them. :shades:
The thing is that based on the past 3 decades worth of product reviews and the (much maligned) CR or any other quality reporting firms out there, these people aren't too far off from reality. Toyota products really were the pinnacles of quality and reliability while the Domestics were um, ahem...
Not so good? :confuse:
Shoot, Google "Road to Redemption" GM sometime. Putz and the goons up in Detroilet published a well known but forgotten letter to us telling us that anything built before 2004 (when the letters came out) was eh, not so good... OOPS, Sorry
Uh huh, yup it's us non-GM fans that are delusional... The stuff has been perfect even though Government Motors came out told us it wasn't.
I'd still buy a Toyota long before giving a GM product a chance.
You are in denial again. Toyota has admitted their 2010 Prius brakes are flawed. Their ABS does not work in all instances making braking with the Prius a hazard.
The Prius can go 105 under ideal conditions - it's governor limited to 112. Al Gore Jr. was going right at 100 when he got busted in his Prius.
Yes, a Prius Goes 100 MPH (Slate)
Normal braking for a car like the Prius from 60mph is probably 150 ft. So that 88 ft. is over a 50% increase, to put the extra distance in perspective.
Neutral, people, Neutral
His best line:
I can only assume that the self-victimized drivers have avoided neutral like a late-night comedian. Or they’re too panicked to make that simple selection with the gear lever. Or it could be that some drivers have never ventured into neutral and have no idea of its remarkable attributes as a non-gear.
Tee-Hee. That's good.
Just stating the facts. As per my usual.
You want to know how many "Prius brake actions" are performed daily, worldwide, without incident?
Far, far, FAR many more millions than any who might have a 1-second delay.
And it was not ALL Priuses anyway - just certain ones produced at a certain time. Toyota found the flaw mere months after the first car was sold with the flaw.
Mountain, meet mole hill.
For years Toyota's have had quality problems, but they deny deny deny until finally they are "pressured" by the US Gov't to face the facts and fix their quality issues! RECALL... the American auto companies are forced to own up to their quality issues and its about time Toyota did too!! They are NOT as perfect as the fools who buy their crap are lead to believe... WAKE UP!!!!
Its time to STOP giving Toyota (and the Japanese car companes) a "blank check" for their "perceived" quality... the American car companies (Ford, ) are just as good if not better... go drive one and see for yourself, but open your eyes first!
That logic really doesn't wash as an excuse for a car problem.
Do you know how many Explorers drove without rolling over?
Do you know how many Fords with cruise control didn't catch on fire every day?
Do you know how many GM trucks didn't catch on fire every day from a gas tank that's alongside the bed?
Do you know how many...
I think I've made my point.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All foreign carmakers employ Americans and many nationalities.
Buy the car that fits your budget and our needs, whatever the maker is. Don't think because your "American" you need to buy an "American" car.
Remember: a survey a couple of years ago made the Toyota Camry one of the "most America-built" cars on the roads in the USA because of where the parts were made and where most of them were assembled.
Toyota had a long run of "tooting it's own horn" because it was WELL-DESERVED. Toyota made millions of virtually defect-free vehicles, and deserved it's bulletproof reputation.
"When you look at the statistics we are putting an awful lot of effort on a very small risk," he said.
"There has been something like 2,000 complaints of unintended acceleration in some 20 million Toyota vehicles -- it's almost like trying to find a needle in a haystack."
Champion lamented as "unfortunate" that it took the death of an off-duty California state trooper and three members of his family to prompt Toyota to issue a mass recall in September to address the problem.
But he said a congressional investigation was an "overreaction" and noted that the "sticky" pedal problem that caused Toyota to halt production and sales of eight models last month was not linked to any accidents or injuries.
"I'm sure it's going to hurt Toyota in the short term over the next year or so," Champion said.
"But if their products are as good as they have been in the past, we're going to see that Toyota's going to bounce back as Ford has from the Firestone (tire recall) fiasco."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5im7AzPBsRb2Q_qT0FXa8DxrjjLwA
My point is that "a few hundred xxxxx model cars with a specific problem" does not mean you should condemn all the thousands of other identical models without said problem.
The media likes to do that.
Completely. And Utterly.
Despite Quality Woes, Toyota Turns a Profit, Admits Prius Brake Problems (AutoObserver)
I wonder (and fear) just how many suckers there will be who go and carelessly dump their Toyotas for a song to a grubby dealer because of the paranoia that is being spread? :surprise:
Edmunds and other sites have been bombarded for years with propoganda and agendas to swing buyers into the foreign cars. There are some who are so transparent it isn't even a challenge to figure out
The GM discussions have some of those who continuously post anti-GM and pro whatever is their most reliable or favorite foreign brand in their own mind--as long as the hosts let them continue to post.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hmmmmm. Do we think toyota may have handled things in a way through the 7 years that have made this even worse than it might have been if they had started working on curing the Runaway Acceleration Problems much, much earlier. Lentz said in NBC interview it was last October when they first thought there was a real problem. :sick:
No one can say toyota is getting a bum RAP here (runaway acceleration problem).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1. Why no national TV time by Toyota to explain the true facts.
2. Where is the top man from Tokyo !! scared to face the press.
3. The Top guy in the US is not capable of dealing with this crisis.
4. Dealers are no help, will customers cars be repaired before stock?
5. Toyota have the unions and La Hood working against them on behalf of GM.
Toyota get on the TV and say sorry and "we will put it right"
Get some fantastic discounts and lease deals out there and be prepared to loose a lot of revenue. Me I would not purchase a new Toyota the residuals scare me.
Stop scam and deciptfull practices by distributors, underbody treatments - paint protection - heated seats in Florida - Stop scamming your customers and come clean.
Also why does an oil change special offer for a Solara cost $15 more than that of a Ford Explorer done at a Ford dealership - both synthetic oil !!
After Toyota gets this UA behind them they need to do a lot of surprise visits to their dealerships. Especially here in CA. See why they are getting a bad reputation for dealer service.
Nope. When a problem is found even with a single tainted container of Tylenol, peanut butter or any other product that can cause even a single future death, the whole bunch comes back. Say Tylenol "says well there's only a few more tainted bottles out there, it's a waste of time". If one or more people then die from tainted Tylenol, it will cost the companies hundreds of millions of $'s in lawsuits, ruin their image, and probably result in prison time for those callously discounting that - their decision only killed a few more people!
You have a strange way of looking at things sometimes, just because it probably isn't going to affect you.
And these Toyota problems (as are all car recalls) do NOT affect every single car of a model type.
And food recalls mean "stop eating it" while car recalls USUALLY DO NOT mean "stop driving it."
And it does not mean that you should avoid (an/or start cursing at) every single other product made by that company.
Toyota has taken the stance that a few dead bodies are not enough to warrant massive changes to their vehicles DBW systems. I hope the Feds do not agree.
I just sold my '06 Avalon XLS w/NAV/JBL/sunroof/etc. Four years old, 46k miles and got $16.5k for it. Thank you Edmunds tmv. Luckily, my coworker and her husband are able to maintain their perspective about the whole hysteria surrounding Toyota..
How come nobody ever says, "I stepped on the gas by mistake and held the pedal down thinking it was the brake?"
We all know why - embarrassment. Or they didn't know they did it. We know for a fact the human computer is frequently flawed, don't we?
Now I can payoff my 2010 Highlander Limited. Have they recalled the made in Japan Highlanders yet?
John
So far, I don't think we know it is, do we?
Does that answer your question?
The dealer I use on the north side of the river is, or will be, open 24 hours a day to do the work.
John
P.S. - His dealer would have done it sooner, but we're supposed to get snow in the morning starting at 7:00 and continuing into Saturday.
Anyone know when the next consumer reports auto issue is due?
You need a Max Clifford or the like, someone who can stop the spin.
I own a Toyota and like the vehicle but the service at the dealer's suck. They are expensive and the paperwork and administration takes longer than the oil change.
My last visit I could not shut the guy up about having my wipers checked out as the rubbber does hard !!
Perhaps they will not have time for that stuff any more. Did you see the technician on CNN all he could really focus on was the overtime.
However, what I really meant was in 6 months time, with all this (I'm assuming) behind us. The residual impact on their brand and assumed reliability.
Whenever they do their next big overall auto issue and survey, Toyota's going to take a dive in the ratings. ( I predict)
Given the number of buyers who refer to Consumer Reports to make an informed purchase decision, the fact that Toyota is no longer as highly ranked will cause them to take their busienss elsewhere. (Again, my prediction).
My point is that even if this is resolved quickly, the impact will be long lasting. And by the way, I don't believe it will be resolved quickly. Going before Congress is not good for "resolving quickly", but rather "drag this out".
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Because that is not what initiates the issue. It IS likely that is what got dozens of people killed though.
Some Toyotas have an Unintended Acceleration problem NOT related to driver error. After the Unintended Acceleration occurs is when the driver error gets them killed.
Where do you get your news?
Recalling the Brand New 2010 Prius
In response to government pressure both in North America and in Toyota’s home market of Japan, the automaker says that has been aware of the issue and that a recall might be possible. Now, an early report out of a Japanese newspaper is claiming that a 277,000 vehicle global recall is imminent.
Toyota’s quality manager, Hiroyuki Yokoyama, told reporters that Toyota became aware of an issue with the Prius losing braking power when traveling on rough roads, over potholes and even on ice. Toyota says that it began producing a fixed version of the Prius models which have been sold since late January. Toyota is officially still debating what to do about Prius models currently on the road. The issue affects only Toyota’s latest 2010 Prius, which was redesigned for the model year and has been on sale for less than a year.
Now, the Nikkei newspaper is reporting that Toyota has decided to recall a total of 277,000 Prius vehicles, with approximately 100,000 of them sold in the U.S. market. NHTSA is also investigating roughly 37,000 2010 Prius models already on the road in the U.S. Toyota has not officially acknowledged the recall at this time, but the Nikkei newspaper reported that Toyota will be filing the official recalls with both the Japanese Transport Ministry and NHTSA.
Yokoyama described the issue as a “a slight unresponsiveness” in the pedal that occurs only during braking on icy or rough roads. It has been linked to at least one accident in Japan.
The fact that Toyota was aware of the problem and implemented a fix into production without notifying current owners is cause for concern, according to Japan’s transportation ministry. The government agency is launching an investigation into Toyota’s response to the complaints it received.
Toyota’s fix
Toyota says that the issue is a software problem with the anti-lock braking system. It is unclear whether the fix was implemented during the production process or as part of a software update.
The automaker has not decided how it will fix already sold 2010 Prius models.
Denting Toyota’s image
While the automaker’s massive, global accelerator pedal recall of many of its most popular models hasn’t exactly been an image booster, analysts are even more concerned about what a Prius safety recall could do for Toyota. The high-mpg Prius is Toyota’s technology and image flagship, even though it isn’t the automaker’s sales leader.
“The Prius is such a popular car for Toyota. The timing could be very damaging,” said Kohei Takahashi, a Tokyo-based analyst for J.P. Morgan, in an interview with The New York Times. “If there is a recall, Toyota could see Prius sales fall, at least in the short run.”
Prius Recall