I'd like to see some libertarians run for president.
I know Dobbs and Savage aren't libertarians. However both would make fine presidents.
I really personally like and respect Lou Dobbs alot. His show is the only one that I have a tivo season on so I don't miss it.
Most of my libertarian friends and co-workers are very pro-isolationist/protectionist. This is quite the opposite you sometimes display in words.
They drive American domestic cars from the Big 3 because they are made by americans and the money stays here. They buy american made goods for the very same reason. Most are ex-military, and even some support the efforts of unions because they have the political clout to attempt to retain american jobs which is also important to them. They want to close off the borders and kick illegals out and put the military on the borders.
I personally couldn't imagine my employer not matching my 401K dollar for dollar up to 10%. I honestly believe that is getting by cheap for them.
Wow! they match 10%? The most I've ever heard was when I worked for the DoD, they'd match up to 5%. You are in the stratusphere with that level of matching. I can't think of anyone around here who matches anymore.
negotiators are watching the AK Steel lockout in Middletown closely. The tone from the management against the union is very positive in today's report after a short negotiation session yesterday. The company is offering pay increases to the workers, but the company wants to reduce the number of workers. This is the same solution used in another Ohio bitter strike referenced in the article.
Delphi/GM unions need to pay attention to the positive ring that has with the public--they're offering (minor) pay increases but reducing greatly the number of jobs to remain competitive cost-wise with import steel. What union could resist that offer? Only one who is more interested in control rather than the pay for the workers it's able to survive with after reductions.
Wow! they match 10%? The most I've ever heard was when I worked for the DoD, they'd match up to 5%. You are in the stratusphere with that level of matching. I can't think of anyone around here who matches anymore.
Turboshadow
What you really think that's good. :confuse: I think it's not generous enough.
I've been at my current position for a little over 3 1/2 years and only got around $45-50K in my 401K. I was forced by my employer a year and a half ago to dump my Janus Worldwide at a $6K loss because some were crying about 401K performance. Coincidentally a big billion dollar company pulled out 4 months before I got the notice from management and I took the $6K hit. :mad: After we dumped the Janus out of our 401 it skyrocketed a month or so later because another billion dollar company got into the Janus fund and took up the slack. I dumped 100% of it into the New Perspective fund (one of the new funds) and that's where it's staying for now !
Back in Michigan at one of my old employers the Garbage truck driver that came to our site had a 401K where his employer "Waste Management" he claimed match them dollar for dollar up to 30 or 40%. I was like wow, because we only got like $15 your first and it progressed each year until you reach 15 years with the company with a $500 dollar company max. I now get that much in a month but yes I still feel it's not enough to fight off inflation and the cost of living of the future.
I'm sure convinced I won't be a millionaire like those [non-permissible content removed]'s at the investment firm were trying to tell me.
That wasn't mentioned nor was healthcare/retirement costs and packages promised mentioned in the article. I didn't want to muddle my post with too many variables. But all that had been said before was wage reduction from the union bosses.
Often I feel workers need to speak for the union on what's offered and not offered. The big bosses with the GM management type pays setups often are working for themselves more than the union workers in the shops.
Oh, yes the contributory portion of medical cost is over 30% for Salaried retiree . It is capped out this year and any additional costs will be borne totally by the retiree. Estimated increase per year 5 to 8 percent. In addition the salaried retirement is "fixed"- the UAW counterpart is is tied into a COLA contract formula.
And the UAW complains about their paltry contributions ? .....Give me a break ! Equality of Sacrifice my A^& ! Those who don't work for GM (most of us) and non UAW must be looking at this in utter disbelief at the UAW rank and file complaints. It will NEVER be the same. Are they even on the same planet ?
I know the salaried are getting the screws also. I wished Rick and the top boys would show more sacrifice. Instead he insists on still paying himself over a million dollar salary + stocks and bonuses. That's hardly sacrifice.
And the UAW complain about their paltry increases.....Give me a break ! Equality of Sacrifice my A^& !
Well you had a hair over 1200 retirees complain. They shouldn't really complain. I guess there arguement would be Rick Wagoner still making that million dollars + perks and I can see somewhat why they could gripe.
"Lemko, you might get your CSX Lucerne or DTS for $10,000. However Wagoner, would probably ask the same amount of money as a U.S. built."
Yeah, and fintail could get himself a "Chin-E-Class" (funny) for $15K! However, I doubt they would last very long. I expect a 6-month life expectancy like that crappy Chinese-made Rival toaster.
No way on earth would I pay the same for a Chinese manufactured car as I would an American, European, Japanese, or even Korean car. I might not mind foreign goods if the price reflected the savings via cheap labor. Fruit of the Loom underwear is still the same price now that its made in Honduras as it was when it was made here. One should get a pack of 3 for 50 cents or six for a buck. Shoot, Nike Airs should be about $5 in reality instead of $150.
Good post lemko. I agree 100%. I made up the Chin-E-class. I saw a carbon copy under worst cars forum. fintail was outraged and said they deserve the guilotine if they braught it here.
Corporate America cry's about the cost of U.S. labor, but when they export the jobs to cheap foreign labor markets, do you notice a decrease in price ???? Most of the time you still see the same or increase in price and a decrease in quality. :mad:
BTW-Did you know they can make those Nike's for under $3 dollars with labor and athlete "legacy costs" to Tiger, Lebron, MJ, etc.
What you really think that's good. I think it's not generous enough.
Yes, I do! I was shocked.
I'm really not banging on the UAW, things like the high matching funds, and basically free insurance (I pay over 200 a month) may be why people are getting upset. Most people I have known would be ecstatic for a five percent match. I know I would. I've never had a match except from the feds.
Shoot when I worked at Johnson Controls I had a 7% match and my MOM at Gentex gets something similar. My employer is a contractor for the D.O.E. and are union agreed to go from a define benefit to a enhanced 10% 401K plan for the new workers like myself. My older co-workers want a 20 yr. retirement funded by D.O.E. since my job requires lots physical attributes that are getting tougher and tougher as time goes on. Our body's won't beable to take the wear and tear. If we can't get that I'm atleast hoping for a better match next contract just in case I got to cut my career short.
BTW- GM's 401K isn't that great. My pops said the match wasn't worth putting into and the money that would of been spent on a 401K went into buying property. However he did buy some company stock which as you know, he's lost his butt on. I pay approx. $121.32 which includes a PPO health insurance plan, Dental, Vision.
Yeah occassionally we are like brothers and test each others nerves. I don't have a bad word to say about any of you. Even you rorr. I love our heated debates and yes I love laughing and joking with you and others over the many subjects. Ya'll just sometimes play my nerves like a violin.
IMHO, you have pointed out the problem and the cause (with implied solution) all in the same post. In this expanding market place, the name brands are not going to be cheap; not cheapening quickly anyway, so long as consumers are reluctant to try the new entrants. It's called brand equity, and the holder of the intellectual property rights (brands) are going to milk it for as long as they can. It's like when a drug patent expires, the brand name will still be expensive, and your bill will still be high if you are not willing to try generics. Business do not operate as charities; they want to maximize profit for themselves . . . it's the duty of the consumers to shop for competition and drive prices down. I have made it very clear with my wife that I will never pay more than $30 for a pair of shoes; I'm willing to pay my employees $30/hr or even $60/hr, but never more than $30 for a pair of shoes for myself. That's how much I paid when I was making $20k a year, and that should be good enough regardless how much I make. And guess what, nowadays I have plenty shoes to choose from for under $20 at Walmart and Payless. . . call me a cheap skate ;-)
As for Fruit of the Loom, I don't buy them unless it's on liquidation. I buy the Costco and BJ store brands. They are just as good, and thanks to custom brand manufacturing in China, India and South America, they are now available for much less. There is indeed a surplus of manufacturing capacity in China. When I was in China, I got approached by many textile and clothing makers wanting to sell to the US. I could probably get the undies for six to a buck (but shipping and clearing through the customs would be more). However, I would not touch it. Why? Because there is a quota on textile import from China, and I'm not interested in having my cargo locked up in the customs warehouse. Supposedly that quota was set up to protect domestic textile manufacturers (like where??) In reality, I think it's just another shenanigan to privilege the incumbent big brands at the expense of consumers (because they have the staff to make sure that their cargo gets here before the quota is full), as usual.
From my butt experience riding in the China Accord and China Buick, I don't think Chinese made MB (coming off MB production line there not knock-offs) will be much or any worse than those already here in the US. Of course, there are complete junks made in China, and plenty of it; much of it probably will never get shipped here. It's the consumer's responsibility to pick the winners and drive a bargain.
GM salaried employees hired before January 1, 2001, who currently participate in the traditional defined benefit plan will stop accruing future benefits under the current formula and receive a modified future benefit based on average base salary for their remaining years of service. GM salaried employees hired on or after January 1, 2001, who currently participate in a cash balance plan, will stop accruing future pay credits under that plan and receive a 4 percent GM contribution into the salaried Savings Stock Purchase Program (S-SPP) 401(k) program. Existing balances under the cash balance plan will continue to earn annual interest credits. GM U.S. executives who participate in the Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) will also have their SERP benefits frozen as of December 31, 2006. Effective January 1, 2007, the plan will be amended to be aligned with the revised U.S. salaried employee pension plan.
In addition to these changes, GM will reinstate the GM S-SPP matching contribution for all U.S. salaried employees, effective January 1, 2007. This means for every dollar an employee contributes up to 4 percent of eligible base salary, GM will match 50 cents.
GM U.S. executives who participate in the Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) will also have their SERP benefits frozen as of December 31, 2006. Effective January 1, 2007, the plan will be amended to be aligned with the revised U.S. salaried employee pension plan.
So they are keeping the golden parachutes in the bag. It won't be needed until it's time to jump if this restructuring doesn't work out. I do sympathize for the salaried who in most cases didn't have anything to do with GM not making the best products to retain market share through the years. :sick:
I always thought a 'golden parachute' was simply an item in an employment contract which provided for benefits in case a company was taken over and the employment is termintated. Like a lucrative severence pay clause in a contract.
I didn't think they had anything AT ALL to do with retirement.
GM to Freeze Pension Plans of White-Collar Workers The Wall Street Journal
By John D. Stoll
March 8, 2006
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. said it will freeze the traditional pension plans it provides white-collar workers, setting the stage for the automaker to seek pension concessions from the United Auto Workers in contract talks next year.
The move, which GM signaled last month, is the latest step in its efforts to cut costs in its unprofitable North American operations. GM said that starting Jan. 1 it will freeze accrued pension benefits for its approximately 42,000 U.S. salaried employees under the current defined-benefit plan formula and begin a shift toward defined-contribution plans, such as 401(k) plans.
Defined-benefit plans promise a monthly check based on years of service and wages, but place the financial risk on the employer. Defined-contribution plans – which are increasingly the standard in the private sector and put more of the investing decisions in the hands of employees – place the financial risk on workers.
The company expects the shift to result in a $1.6 billion reduction in its pension liability by the end of this year and savings on its pension expenses of about $420 million next year.
Last month GM announced it would cap health-care benefits for salaried retirees – saving about $900 million in annual costs on a pretax basis – and said it was evaluating ways to restructure pension benefits for white-collar employees.
GM spokesman Jerry Dubrowski said that the pension changes were reviewed by the company's board Monday. He declined to comment on other potential items on the board's agenda, including the company's drive to sell a controlling stake in its General Motors Acceptance Corp. lending arm and to firm up a multibillion-dollar bailout package for its top parts supplier, Delphi Corp., which is under bankruptcy-court protection.
Shares of GM rose 48 cents, or 2.4 percent, to $20.29 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading.
GM is in the midst of a massive restructuring after losing $8.6 billion in 2005, as the company struggles with a burdensome cost structure and steadily loses U.S. market share to foreign-based competitors. The company has pledged to close 12 manufacturing facilities and shed about 30,000 jobs as part of its plan to restore profitability in its automotive operations.
GM isn't set to renegotiate the master labor contract until the second half of 2007.
A UAW spokesman had no immediate comment on GM's latest cost-cutting move.
GM said it expects to record a pretax charge of $120 million upon re-measurement
Workers at the Oklahoma City assembly plant were put in the jobs bank last month. The plant made the Chevy Trail Blazer and GMC Envoy. GM jobs bank isn't a dead end after all
For some, life is no longer boring as they get loaned out to deliver, help sell cars for dealers.
GM jobs bank put to test in Oklahoma
Like many of his co-workers, Jay Blevins wondered about life in the "jobs bank" after General Motors Corp. closed its Oklahoma City assembly plant last month.
But after a few weeks sitting idle at the plant, Blevins got a new assignment Wednesday -- delivering cars for a local GM dealership.
It's an unusual twist in the strange world of the jobs bank, where unionized autoworkers are given full pay and benefits to essentially do nothing when their plants shut down.
Blevins, however, is one of a number of GM workers across the United States who have been loaned out from the jobs bank to park, deliver and even help sell cars at GM dealerships.
With GM vehicle sales slumping, Blevins is happy to help out on the retail side of the business.
"We're all on the same team," said Blevins, who used to install liftgates on SUVs at the Oklahoma City plant. "GM is trying to plug the holes on a sinking ship and I'll do what I can to help."
With GM embarking on a massive downsizing of its North American manufacturing operations, its jobs bank has grown to about 8,000 workers nationwide.
The swelling ranks of idled employees have become symbolic of GM's struggle to shrink itself within the constraints of its contract with the United Auto Workers, which won the jobs-bank provision during negotiations in the mid-1980s.
A GM spokeswoman said Wednesday that an unspecified number of employees in the jobs bank have been loaned out to work for GM dealers in Oklahoma City and elsewhere.
"Yes, it is happening in Oklahoma City and yes, it is happening in other places," said Katie McBride of GM. "It's a non-traditional work assignment."
For Blevins, delivering cars for a dealership in the nearby town of Edmond beats hanging out for hours in an empty plant with hundreds of other jobless workers.
"We have 600 or 700 people sitting there all day, eyeball to eyeball," Blevins said. "I'm glad to get up off my butt and do something."
About 2,200 hourly workers went into the GM jobs bank when the Oklahoma City plant ceased production last month. Some have found volunteer work at churches, schools and social service agencies, while others have gone back to school.
But most of the work force clocks in each day in the cavernous "final staging area" of the plant, where scores of Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Envoys SUVs once rolled off the line.
Since the plant went down, the staging area is now lined with picnic tables and lawn furniture, an encampment of sorts where workers bring DVD players, lap-top computers, microwave ovens and refrigerators.
"Some are calling it a rubber room, but it's more like a day care center for adults," said Truman Lewis, who, like most of the Oklahoma City workers, hired in at the plant when it opened in 1979.
The workers talk and swap stories, but the main topic of conversation is the negotiations between GM and the UAW about possible buyout offers for retirement-eligible workers.
With GM planning to eliminate 30,000 manufacturing jobs by 2008, the Oklahoma City workers are holding out hope that they will be included in any future buyout program.
"They're paying full wages for people to watch TV and DVDs," Blevins said. "There're a lot of people who'd take a buyout if one is offered."
Blevins feels fortunate to be among an unspecified number of Oklahoma City workers who signed up to do odd jobs at local dealerships.
He and two other workers reported Wednesday to Bob Howard Pontiac in Edmond. While the others helped with customers in the showroom, Blevins drove cars to other dealerships for inventory swaps.
"It's free labor for the dealerships and they're glad to have us," he said. "I'd much rather be doing this than be sitting around all day."
He's also happy to get out of the plant before next week, when workers on the second shift will move into the day-time jobs bank.
That change, Blevins said, will double the number of people occupying the plant's staging area from 6:30 a.m. until 3 p.m. "It's going to make it a full house," he said.
Rouge worker taps into growing discontent with effort to reverse health care givebacks.
The United Auto Workers' vaunted solidarity is being tested by a growing divide between union leaders and rank-and-file workers calling for an end to givebacks.
Workers like Gary Walkowicz at Ford Motor Co.'s Dearborn Truck Plant are pushing union leaders to adopt a "no concessions" position as they negotiate with Detroit's ailing automakers and parts suppliers.
Walkowicz recently spearheaded the passage of two resolutions at Dearborn Truck -- one that would give retirees the right to vote on proposed changes to their benefits and a second that would tighten rules for ratification votes at union halls.
Walkowski, a candidate to be a delegate at the UAW's constitutional convention in Las Vegas this June, wants similar resolutions passed throughout the union and is calling on fellow hard-liners to make themselves heard at the convention.
"I am hoping that everyone opposed to concessions will be running for convention delegate this year," he wrote in a letter posted on futureoftheunion.com, a Web site popular with dissident union members.
With the 2007 contract talks between the union and the UAW approaching, UAW members are increasingly falling into two camps -- those who believe some concessions are necessary to safeguard future jobs and those who oppose any concessions on hard-won pay and benefits.
Since October, General Motors Corp. and Ford have struck deals with the UAW that allow for workers and retirees to contribute more for health care. But rank-and-file workers ratified the deals by surprisingly narrow margins. And workers at Ford have circulated a petition to reverse the ratification of the health care changes.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group is pursuing a similar deal.
Bankrupt supplier Delphi Corp., meanwhile, is pushing the union for dramatic wage and benefit cuts.
A growing chorus of union activists is calling on the UAW to fight any attempt by auto companies to cut pay and benefits for active workers and force concessions on retirees. Dissident groups like Soldiers of Solidarity, which formed in the aftermath of the Delphi bankruptcy, have been organizing town hall-style meetings in factory towns across the Midwest.
Roger Kerson, a UAW spokesman, declined to comment specifically about a grassroots push to stop concessions.
Despite the opposition, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger is expected to be re-elected at the convention in June without opposition.
Union experts say the dissension is not surprising considering the global changes roiling the domestic auto industry and organized labor. But the opposition does not mean that the UAW is splintering.
"Protests are to be expected," said Michael Whitty, a business professor at the University of Detroit Mercy. "Unless you've seen a cluster of locals up in arms, we're not quite at a crisis point for revolt against UAW leaders."
Jerry Sullivan, president of UAW Local 600 in Dearborn, said hundreds of resolutions are routinely submitted to amend the UAW constitution. It doesn't mean they pass at the convention. He doesn't believe that retirees should vote on changes to labor agreements or that the recent votes on health care modifications should be overturned.
"To change a vote that was ratified by a majority is wrong," Sullivan said.
Lawrence Roots, a University of Michigan labor and management professor, described opposing union members' response to the health care changes as a "legitimate expression of their views."
But he also said he sympathizes with union leaders who are trying to protect workers' jobs and pay at a difficult time for entire auto industry.
"Everyone is in a hard situation right now," Roots said. "The union's in a difficult situation. The companies are in a difficult situation."
Continental AG, the world's fourth-largest tire maker, is in talks to buy parts of Delphi Corp.'s operations outside the United States, Chief Executive Manfred Wennemer said Wednesday. ``We wouldn't want any UAW factories,'' Wennemer said at the Geneva Motor Show, referring to the United Auto Workers. The union is negotiating with Continental over cutting costs at the company's U.S. plants. ``There are a lot of other opportunities -- Asia, Europe -- where we'd be interested in buying. It all depends on what's available.
Wennemer, I'm going to laugh when they kick you out of those country's with nothing more than the clothes on your back. BTW- don't come back here you sell out !
Perhaps that may happen but I doubt it.The bottom line is that investors have had their fill with Union Demands that are not sustainable. Sorry, Rocky.
To bad they don't get their fill when their corrupt CEO signs himself a golden parachute if and when he/she fails and gold eggs for salary and benefits while he/she is working. :sick:
The employees of a company will make or break a company. You treat em' bad and you will get squat in return. I and many others will tell the investors to kiss are behinds for wanting unrealistic returns in a struggling economy. :mad:
" I and many others will tell the investors to kiss are behinds for wanting unrealistic returns in a struggling economy."
True.
Of course this would have more validity if the economy was actually struggling. By most measures, it isn't. What IS struggling is the domestic industry.
Of course this would have more validity if the economy was actually struggling. By most measures, it isn't. What IS struggling is the domestic industry.
GM, Ford, Chrysler, Delphi, Dana, Johnson Controls, etc etc etc. in automotive.
Steel Industry isn't doing very well.
Teachers are still underpaid and aren't getting enough raises to off-set inflation and the cost of living.
Law-Enforcement...Yeah they are paid well :confuse:
Farming is a joke and my father in-law isn't making any money. He's living off of what he made in the 90's still. Bush cut farm subsidizes ya know.
rorr, I could go on and on and on. Seriously the average american has just in wages alone is making nearly 4% less than they were in 2000. You factor in what company's are starting employees out today in another 5 years and that number is going to increase as the years go by. BTW- if you factor in benefits and retirement that 4% would be much higher :sick:
Ok if you work for a oil company you might be doing well
Toyota didn't have over 150,000 apps for jobs in San Antonio, because the economy is doing so well.
Meijer, Walmarts main competitor had over 2500 apps for $7 an hour. McDonalds raised their demands from being mentalty retarded to having to have a H.S. diploma which in South Haven Mi. still pays $5.25. I made that their in 97' and we had the best drive-thru in the U.S. that yr. My stepmom's nephew was a H.S. drop-out and they wouldn't hire him because of that.
To tell me the economy is so great is false. 4.5 million jobs were created between K-Mart, Walley World, Burger King, KFC, and a few low paying factory's.
Not many good paying jobs have been created under the Bush administration unless you count the sign on bonuses that the military is giving. Yeah the government is hirring and paying good wages, but the private sectors that are left are downsizing and cutting cost quicker than a blender. Not to mention looking for a way to off-shore.
Perhaps things are diffrent where you live, but living in Michigan and now Texas the good jobs are very slim to none.
I guess if you're a CEO of a major corporation, things look great for you whether or not your company or employees are doing well. Geeze, $5.25 an hour? I made $7.25 an hour in 1984! How the heck do they expect people to live? I hope that Mickey D's provides subsidized housing and feeds you. For a $5.25 an hour to be viable, rent would have to be no more than $273 a month assuming you have a full-time position. I guess you could do it if you don't mind sharing a shabby one-bedroom apartment in a marginal neighborhood with two other guys.
wonderful advertisement about how many jobs the auto company has "created" in the US and how many suppliers there were and just how wonderful they are. It's Toyota. They were advertising to all their friends in Cincinnati.
Of course the jobs they "created" were taken away from the domestic automakers, but they don't have a word for that in their language, I guess.
What they did was create jobs like the government has bragged about for the last 14 years -- and people believe the PR releases. Lose $20 jobs and replace them with Burgerking, McD, Dairy Queen and brag about the new jobs. This is not about any one president; they're all buying votes.
The auto jobs are next. But we still want your union votes!!!! So unions go out there and campaign for us, ya'all hear now?
Here's the math. In 2004, GM says, its health-care costs were $1,528 a vehicle and pension costs $695. Total: $2,223. Toyota's comparable costs: $201 for health care (according to A.T. Kearney) and perhaps $100 total (my estimate) for its definedcontribution pension plan (to which it says it contributes an average of 6.5 percent of workers' salary) and for matching workers' 401(k) contributions. GM refuses to provide legacy costs for its 2005 vehicles. But by my estimate, they were $1,850 for health care, $700 for pensions. Total: $2,550. (I'm using GM's pension and healthcare numbers and WardsAuto.com's vehicleproduction stats.) Numbers that Toyota gave me indicate that its U.S. health-care costs stayed at about $200 a vehicle. And let's use the same, probably-too-high $100 for pension and 401(k) costs. This produces a horrendous $2,250- gap.
Sales of outside US Delphi plants may happen to get some cash but I doubt it. Delphi has only filed bankruptcy for US operations only. They are making money outside of the US because of the lower wages there. Also the quality has been darn good.
But, if you read the Detroit papers (and others I am sure) almost all traditional suppliers are getting hammered. With their high wages and lower sales to the domestics they are all lining up to go bankrupt.
My brother in Law is a plant manager of a brand new plant in the south to supply to transplants. Paying nowhere near the wages of the traditional supplier plants. His company is completely global and the main reason they are building the parts (gas tanks) here is because they are so big and it is cheaper to make them here than ship air from overseas. Also it is mostly robotics so few floor workers.
Yep I live in republican country. However suprisingly I'm not the only person around here that's a registered democrat. :surprise: This area in general is very conservative. I consider myself conservative in alot of area's. People however are starting to have enough of what's happening to their country. Good jobs around here is one that pays $30,000 a yr. Unless you work for the oil company's, railroads, Federal Government, or are self employed like a farmer, your not going to make alot of money in West Texas. However we do have are fair share of very wealthy folks.
I've read other articles saying the cost was $1500 in total costs. This $2550 cost added on to a vehicle I don't believe. Those Toyota figures I question too. I'm not going to say one way or the other. My personal feelings is a company, reporter, can juggle the figures around to make unions look bad. The bottom line was GM was suppose to contribute "X" amount a year in to the pension fund. "Pay as you go". Now they are really behind on pension contributions and are tacking those years of underfunding onto the cost of a vehicle.
The Bottom Line: b>
If GM would of funded the pension fund like they were suppose to then the true added cost with every benefit/wage per vehicle would be $900-$1500 per vehicle.
I think it would take more than 2 other guys. You better plan on mommy and daddy to help keep you afloat. I worked their in College and lemko I had to miss college classes because I couldn't afford to put gas in my car to drive to college. I also worked 3 jobs. :sick:
The union says pact with GM and Delphi for worker buyouts still faces hurdles.
In its toughest language yet, the United Auto Workers said Thursday that the union was not close to a deal with General Motors Corp. on a bailout for bankrupt Delphi Corp. or buyout packages for thousands of UAW workers.
The UAW posted a stinging response on its Web site to what it called "false reports" in the media that an agreement is near in three-way talks on reducing the ranks of hourly workers at GM and Delphi.
"Nothing could be further from the truth," the union said. "The parties are not close to working out such an agreement."
While the union confirmed discussions on a "retirement incentive program," it denied that any agreement has been reached in the ongoing talks related to GM's historic downsizing plans or the future of Delphi workers.
"There is no agreement on the retirement incentive program and only time will tell if we will be successful in this regard," the union said.
The blanket statement was unusual for the union, and it was released without the signature of either President Ron Gettelfinger or Vice President Richard Shoemaker, who heads the UAW bargaining team with GM and Delphi.
The union said that "many, many significant issues" have yet to be resolved, and shot down reports that a meeting next week of UAW local leaders in Detroit was anything more than a routine briefing.
Several news organizations reported that the local union officials could learn details of a possibly massive buyout program that could affect huge numbers of GM's 106,000 hourly workers and Delphi's 24,000. The reports helped push GM shares up 4.51 percent, or 92 cents, to $21.34 in New York Stock Exchange trading on Thursday.
GM is under enormous pressure to downsize its North American operations and stem financial losses that reached $8.6 billion in 2005.
On Thursday, Standard & Poor's Corp. warned that GM may have to restructure debt and contractual obligations if it's unable to cut factory capacity, lower pension and health care costs, and reverse market share losses.
People familiar with the situation have said that GM wants to shed at least 20,000 workers by offering buyouts to workers at or near retirement age. But the UAW insisted that no deal has been reached, and dashed hopes that one would be done by the union meeting.
"The suggestion that we have an outline of an agreement to review with you is unfortunately, just not true," the union said.
There was no immediate comment from GM or Delphi. Executives at both the automaker and its largest supplier have been tight-lipped on any progress in the day-to-day UAW negotiations.
But all sides agree that the issues before them are enormous. GM has laid out plans to shed 30,000 manufacturing jobs in North America by 2008. Delphi, the GM corporate spin-off that went bankrupt last year, is facing a March 30 court date to ask a federal judge to void its UAW contract, possibly setting the stage for a crippling strike.
Moreover, rank-and-file workers across the U.S. are besieging their local UAW leaders and national representatives to share even the smallest detail of potential buyout programs.
Reaction on the Internet has been swift with every news report on the situation, and rumors of deals-to-come are rampant in GM and Delphi plants.
"It seems like everybody is talking about the buyouts," said Bobby Millsap, a 27-year employee at GM's Oklahoma City assembly plant, which closed down last month
Sorry but at least the GM numbers are real. Easy enough for GM to calculate them. They know their costs and how many cars they sold last year. Not sure about the Toyota but I would believe the reporters number +- 100% which is nothing compared to the GM numbers.
They have been socking away money for years as they were supposed to. The issue is that Health care is going up faster than anyone ever imagined. And with falling market share the costs per car keeps going up.
That is why the big changes will have to be made with the Salary and sooner or later the hourly. The hourly are going to start taking on some health care costs. Is there anyone in this country getting a total ride on health care?
so do you blame Toyota for creating jobs or you blame "domestics" for closing factories... I don't understand. Toyota did not "steal" any jobs from Big 2.5....
Comments
I know Dobbs and Savage aren't libertarians. However both would make fine presidents.
I really personally like and respect Lou Dobbs alot. His show is the only one that I have a tivo season on so I don't miss it.
Most of my libertarian friends and co-workers are very pro-isolationist/protectionist. This is quite the opposite you sometimes display in words.
They drive American domestic cars from the Big 3 because they are made by americans and the money stays here. They buy american made goods for the very same reason.
Most are ex-military, and even some support the efforts of unions because they have the political clout to attempt to retain american jobs which is also important to them. They want to close off the borders and kick illegals out and put the military on the borders.
Rocky
Wow! they match 10%? The most I've ever heard was when I worked for the DoD, they'd match up to 5%. You are in the stratusphere with that level of matching. I can't think of anyone around here who matches anymore.
Turboshadow
Delphi/GM unions need to pay attention to the positive ring that has with the public--they're offering (minor) pay increases but reducing greatly the number of jobs to remain competitive cost-wise with import steel. What union could resist that offer? Only one who is more interested in control rather than the pay for the workers it's able to survive with after reductions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Turboshadow
What you really think that's good. :confuse: I think it's not generous enough.
I've been at my current position for a little over 3 1/2 years and only got around $45-50K in my 401K. I was forced by my employer a year and a half ago to dump my Janus Worldwide at a $6K loss because some were crying about 401K performance. Coincidentally a big billion dollar company pulled out 4 months before I got the notice from management and I took the $6K hit. :mad: After we dumped the Janus out of our 401 it skyrocketed a month or so later because another billion dollar company got into the Janus fund and took up the slack.
Back in Michigan at one of my old employers the Garbage truck driver that came to our site had a 401K where his employer "Waste Management" he claimed match them dollar for dollar up to 30 or 40%. I was like wow, because we only got like $15 your first and it progressed each year until you reach 15 years with the company with a $500 dollar company max. I now get that much in a month but yes I still feel it's not enough to fight off inflation and the cost of living of the future.
I'm sure convinced I won't be a millionaire like those [non-permissible content removed]'s at the investment firm were trying to tell me.
Rocky
Rocky
Often I feel workers need to speak for the union on what's offered and not offered. The big bosses with the GM management type pays setups often are working for themselves more than the union workers in the shops.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/NEWS03/603080357/1004/new- - s03
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/AUTO02/603080392/1031- - /METRO
Oh, yes the contributory portion of medical cost is over
30% for Salaried retiree . It is capped out this year and any additional costs will be borne totally by the retiree.
Estimated increase per year 5 to 8 percent. In addition the salaried retirement is "fixed"- the UAW counterpart is is tied into a COLA contract formula.
And the UAW complains about their paltry contributions ? .....Give me a break ! Equality of Sacrifice my A^& ! Those who don't work for GM (most of us) and non UAW must be looking at this in utter disbelief at the UAW rank and file complaints. It will NEVER be the same. Are they even on the same planet ?
And the UAW complain about their paltry increases.....Give me a break ! Equality of Sacrifice my A^& !
Well you had a hair over 1200 retirees complain. They shouldn't really complain. I guess there arguement would be Rick Wagoner still making that million dollars + perks and I can see somewhat why they could gripe.
Rocky
Yeah, and fintail could get himself a "Chin-E-Class" (funny) for $15K! However, I doubt they would last very long. I expect a 6-month life expectancy like that crappy Chinese-made Rival toaster.
No way on earth would I pay the same for a Chinese manufactured car as I would an American, European, Japanese, or even Korean car. I might not mind foreign goods if the price reflected the savings via cheap labor. Fruit of the Loom underwear is still the same price now that its made in Honduras as it was when it was made here. One should get a pack of 3 for 50 cents or six for a buck. Shoot, Nike Airs should be about $5 in reality instead of $150.
Corporate America cry's about the cost of U.S. labor, but when they export the jobs to cheap foreign labor markets, do you notice a decrease in price ???? Most of the time you still see the same or increase in price and a decrease in quality. :mad:
BTW-Did you know they can make those Nike's for under $3 dollars with labor and athlete "legacy costs" to Tiger, Lebron, MJ, etc.
Rocky
Yes, I do! I was shocked.
I'm really not banging on the UAW, things like the high matching funds, and basically free insurance (I pay over 200 a month) may be why people are getting upset. Most people I have known would be ecstatic for a five percent match. I know I would. I've never had a match except from the feds.
Turboshadow
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/BIZ/603080332/1001-
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060307/REG/60307007/1003
BTW- GM's 401K isn't that great. My pops said the match wasn't worth putting into and the money that would of been spent on a 401K went into buying property. However he did buy some company stock which as you know, he's lost his butt on.
Rocky
I hear the Toyota stock is doing pretty well...
Rocky
For some reason, it's been a little testy in here the last couple of days....
Rocky
As for Fruit of the Loom, I don't buy them unless it's on liquidation. I buy the Costco and BJ store brands. They are just as good, and thanks to custom brand manufacturing in China, India and South America, they are now available for much less. There is indeed a surplus of manufacturing capacity in China. When I was in China, I got approached by many textile and clothing makers wanting to sell to the US. I could probably get the undies for six to a buck (but shipping and clearing through the customs would be more). However, I would not touch it. Why? Because there is a quota on textile import from China, and I'm not interested in having my cargo locked up in the customs warehouse. Supposedly that quota was set up to protect domestic textile manufacturers (like where??) In reality, I think it's just another shenanigan to privilege the incumbent big brands at the expense of consumers (because they have the staff to make sure that their cargo gets here before the quota is full), as usual.
From my butt experience riding in the China Accord and China Buick, I don't think Chinese made MB (coming off MB production line there not knock-offs) will be much or any worse than those already here in the US. Of course, there are complete junks made in China, and plenty of it; much of it probably will never get shipped here. It's the consumer's responsibility to pick the winners and drive a bargain.
GM salaried employees hired before January 1, 2001, who currently
participate in the traditional defined benefit plan will stop accruing
future benefits under the current formula and receive a modified future
benefit based on average base salary for their remaining years of
service.
GM salaried employees hired on or after January 1, 2001, who currently
participate in a cash balance plan, will stop accruing future pay
credits under that plan and receive a 4 percent GM contribution into
the salaried Savings Stock Purchase Program (S-SPP) 401(k) program.
Existing balances under the cash balance plan will continue to earn
annual interest credits.
GM U.S. executives who participate in the Supplemental Executive
Retirement Plan (SERP) will also have their SERP benefits frozen as of
December 31, 2006. Effective January 1, 2007, the plan will be amended
to be aligned with the revised U.S. salaried employee pension plan.
In addition to these changes, GM will reinstate the GM S-SPP matching
contribution for all U.S. salaried employees, effective January 1, 2007.
This means for every dollar an employee contributes up to 4 percent of
eligible base salary, GM will match 50 cents.
Retirement Plan (SERP) will also have their SERP benefits frozen as of
December 31, 2006. Effective January 1, 2007, the plan will be amended
to be aligned with the revised U.S. salaried employee pension plan.
So they are keeping the golden parachutes in the bag. It won't be needed until it's time to jump if this restructuring doesn't work out. I do sympathize for the salaried who in most cases didn't have anything to do with GM not making the best products to retain market share through the years. :sick:
Rocky
Rocky
I'm confused. :confuse:
I always thought a 'golden parachute' was simply an item in an employment contract which provided for benefits in case a company was taken over and the employment is termintated. Like a lucrative severence pay clause in a contract.
I didn't think they had anything AT ALL to do with retirement.
The Wall Street Journal
By John D. Stoll
March 8, 2006
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. said it will freeze the traditional pension plans it provides white-collar workers, setting the stage for the automaker to seek pension concessions from the United Auto Workers in contract talks next year.
The move, which GM signaled last month, is the latest step in its efforts to cut costs in its unprofitable North American operations. GM said that starting Jan. 1 it will freeze accrued pension benefits for its approximately 42,000 U.S. salaried employees under the current defined-benefit plan formula and begin a shift toward defined-contribution plans, such as 401(k) plans.
Defined-benefit plans promise a monthly check based on years of service and wages, but place the financial risk on the employer. Defined-contribution plans – which are increasingly the standard in the private sector and put more of the investing decisions in the hands of employees – place the financial risk on workers.
The company expects the shift to result in a $1.6 billion reduction in its pension liability by the end of this year and savings on its pension expenses of about $420 million next year.
Last month GM announced it would cap health-care benefits for salaried retirees – saving about $900 million in annual costs on a pretax basis – and said it was evaluating ways to restructure pension benefits for white-collar employees.
GM spokesman Jerry Dubrowski said that the pension changes were reviewed by the company's board Monday. He declined to comment on other potential items on the board's agenda, including the company's drive to sell a controlling stake in its General Motors Acceptance Corp. lending arm and to firm up a multibillion-dollar bailout package for its top parts supplier, Delphi Corp., which is under bankruptcy-court protection.
Shares of GM rose 48 cents, or 2.4 percent, to $20.29 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading.
GM is in the midst of a massive restructuring after losing $8.6 billion in 2005, as the company struggles with a burdensome cost structure and steadily loses U.S. market share to foreign-based competitors. The company has pledged to close 12 manufacturing facilities and shed about 30,000 jobs as part of its plan to restore profitability in its automotive operations.
GM isn't set to renegotiate the master labor contract until the second half of 2007.
A UAW spokesman had no immediate comment on GM's latest cost-cutting move.
GM said it expects to record a pretax charge of $120 million upon re-measurement
Rocky
The Detroit News
Workers at the Oklahoma City assembly plant were put in the jobs bank last month. The plant made the Chevy Trail Blazer and GMC Envoy.
GM jobs bank isn't a dead end after all
For some, life is no longer boring as they get loaned out to deliver, help sell cars for dealers.
GM jobs bank put to test in Oklahoma
Like many of his co-workers, Jay Blevins wondered about life in the "jobs bank" after General Motors Corp. closed its Oklahoma City assembly plant last month.
But after a few weeks sitting idle at the plant, Blevins got a new assignment Wednesday -- delivering cars for a local GM dealership.
It's an unusual twist in the strange world of the jobs bank, where unionized autoworkers are given full pay and benefits to essentially do nothing when their plants shut down.
Blevins, however, is one of a number of GM workers across the United States who have been loaned out from the jobs bank to park, deliver and even help sell cars at GM dealerships.
With GM vehicle sales slumping, Blevins is happy to help out on the retail side of the business.
"We're all on the same team," said Blevins, who used to install liftgates on SUVs at the Oklahoma City plant. "GM is trying to plug the holes on a sinking ship and I'll do what I can to help."
With GM embarking on a massive downsizing of its North American manufacturing operations, its jobs bank has grown to about 8,000 workers nationwide.
The swelling ranks of idled employees have become symbolic of GM's struggle to shrink itself within the constraints of its contract with the United Auto Workers, which won the jobs-bank provision during negotiations in the mid-1980s.
A GM spokeswoman said Wednesday that an unspecified number of employees in the jobs bank have been loaned out to work for GM dealers in Oklahoma City and elsewhere.
"Yes, it is happening in Oklahoma City and yes, it is happening in other places," said Katie McBride of GM. "It's a non-traditional work assignment."
For Blevins, delivering cars for a dealership in the nearby town of Edmond beats hanging out for hours in an empty plant with hundreds of other jobless workers.
"We have 600 or 700 people sitting there all day, eyeball to eyeball," Blevins said. "I'm glad to get up off my butt and do something."
About 2,200 hourly workers went into the GM jobs bank when the Oklahoma City plant ceased production last month. Some have found volunteer work at churches, schools and social service agencies, while others have gone back to school.
But most of the work force clocks in each day in the cavernous "final staging area" of the plant, where scores of Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Envoys SUVs once rolled off the line.
Since the plant went down, the staging area is now lined with picnic tables and lawn furniture, an encampment of sorts where workers bring DVD players, lap-top computers, microwave ovens and refrigerators.
"Some are calling it a rubber room, but it's more like a day care center for adults," said Truman Lewis, who, like most of the Oklahoma City workers, hired in at the plant when it opened in 1979.
The workers talk and swap stories, but the main topic of conversation is the negotiations between GM and the UAW about possible buyout offers for retirement-eligible workers.
With GM planning to eliminate 30,000 manufacturing jobs by 2008, the Oklahoma City workers are holding out hope that they will be included in any future buyout program.
"They're paying full wages for people to watch TV and DVDs," Blevins said. "There're a lot of people who'd take a buyout if one is offered."
Blevins feels fortunate to be among an unspecified number of Oklahoma City workers who signed up to do odd jobs at local dealerships.
He and two other workers reported Wednesday to Bob Howard Pontiac in Edmond. While the others helped with customers in the showroom, Blevins drove cars to other dealerships for inventory swaps.
"It's free labor for the dealerships and they're glad to have us," he said. "I'd much rather be doing this than be sitting around all day."
He's also happy to get out of the plant before next week, when workers on the second shift will move into the day-time jobs bank.
That change, Blevins said, will double the number of people occupying the plant's staging area from 6:30 a.m. until 3 p.m. "It's going to make it a full house," he said.
The United Auto Workers' vaunted solidarity is being tested by a growing divide between union leaders and rank-and-file workers calling for an end to givebacks.
Workers like Gary Walkowicz at Ford Motor Co.'s Dearborn Truck Plant are pushing union leaders to adopt a "no concessions" position as they negotiate with Detroit's ailing automakers and parts suppliers.
Walkowicz recently spearheaded the passage of two resolutions at Dearborn Truck -- one that would give retirees the right to vote on proposed changes to their benefits and a second that would tighten rules for ratification votes at union halls.
Walkowski, a candidate to be a delegate at the UAW's constitutional convention in Las Vegas this June, wants similar resolutions passed throughout the union and is calling on fellow hard-liners to make themselves heard at the convention.
"I am hoping that everyone opposed to concessions will be running for convention delegate this year," he wrote in a letter posted on futureoftheunion.com, a Web site popular with dissident union members.
With the 2007 contract talks between the union and the UAW approaching, UAW members are increasingly falling into two camps -- those who believe some concessions are necessary to safeguard future jobs and those who oppose any concessions on hard-won pay and benefits.
Since October, General Motors Corp. and Ford have struck deals with the UAW that allow for workers and retirees to contribute more for health care. But rank-and-file workers ratified the deals by surprisingly narrow margins. And workers at Ford have circulated a petition to reverse the ratification of the health care changes.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group is pursuing a similar deal.
Bankrupt supplier Delphi Corp., meanwhile, is pushing the union for dramatic wage and benefit cuts.
A growing chorus of union activists is calling on the UAW to fight any attempt by auto companies to cut pay and benefits for active workers and force concessions on retirees. Dissident groups like Soldiers of Solidarity, which formed in the aftermath of the Delphi bankruptcy, have been organizing town hall-style meetings in factory towns across the Midwest.
Roger Kerson, a UAW spokesman, declined to comment specifically about a grassroots push to stop concessions.
Despite the opposition, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger is expected to be re-elected at the convention in June without opposition.
Union experts say the dissension is not surprising considering the global changes roiling the domestic auto industry and organized labor. But the opposition does not mean that the UAW is splintering.
"Protests are to be expected," said Michael Whitty, a business professor at the University of Detroit Mercy. "Unless you've seen a cluster of locals up in arms, we're not quite at a crisis point for revolt against UAW leaders."
Jerry Sullivan, president of UAW Local 600 in Dearborn, said hundreds of resolutions are routinely submitted to amend the UAW constitution. It doesn't mean they pass at the convention. He doesn't believe that retirees should vote on changes to labor agreements or that the recent votes on health care modifications should be overturned.
"To change a vote that was ratified by a majority is wrong," Sullivan said.
Lawrence Roots, a University of Michigan labor and management professor, described opposing union members' response to the health care changes as a "legitimate expression of their views."
But he also said he sympathizes with union leaders who are trying to protect workers' jobs and pay at a difficult time for entire auto industry.
"Everyone is in a hard situation right now," Roots said. "The union's in a difficult situation. The companies are in a difficult situation."
``We wouldn't want any UAW factories,'' Wennemer said at the Geneva Motor Show, referring to the United Auto Workers. The union is negotiating with Continental over cutting costs at the company's U.S. plants. ``There are a lot of other opportunities -- Asia, Europe -- where we'd be interested in buying. It all depends on what's available.
Rocky
The employees of a company will make or break a company. You treat em' bad and you will get squat in return. I and many others will tell the investors to kiss are behinds for wanting unrealistic returns in a struggling economy. :mad:
Rocky
True.
Of course this would have more validity if the economy was actually struggling. By most measures, it isn't. What IS struggling is the domestic industry.
GM, Ford, Chrysler, Delphi, Dana, Johnson Controls, etc etc etc. in automotive.
Steel Industry isn't doing very well.
Teachers are still underpaid and aren't getting enough raises to off-set inflation and the cost of living.
Law-Enforcement...Yeah they are paid well :confuse:
Farming is a joke and my father in-law isn't making any money. He's living off of what he made in the 90's still.
Bush cut farm subsidizes ya know.
rorr, I could go on and on and on. Seriously the average american has just in wages alone is making nearly 4% less than they were in 2000.
BTW- if you factor in benefits and retirement that 4% would be much higher :sick:
Ok if you work for a oil company you might be doing well
Toyota didn't have over 150,000 apps for jobs in San Antonio, because the economy is doing so well.
Meijer, Walmarts main competitor had over 2500 apps for $7 an hour. McDonalds raised their demands from being mentalty retarded to having to have a H.S. diploma which in South Haven Mi. still pays $5.25. I made that their in 97' and we had the best drive-thru in the U.S. that yr. My stepmom's nephew was a H.S. drop-out and they wouldn't hire him because of that.
To tell me the economy is so great is false. 4.5 million jobs were created between K-Mart, Walley World, Burger King, KFC, and a few low paying factory's.
Not many good paying jobs have been created under the Bush administration unless you count the sign on bonuses that the military is giving. Yeah the government is hirring and paying good wages, but the private sectors that are left are downsizing and cutting cost quicker than a blender. Not to mention looking for a way to off-shore.
Perhaps things are diffrent where you live, but living in Michigan and now Texas the good jobs are very slim to none.
My 2 cents
Rocky
Of course the jobs they "created" were taken away from the domestic automakers, but they don't have a word for that in their language, I guess.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The auto jobs are next. But we still want your union votes!!!! So unions go out there and campaign for us, ya'all hear now?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_6_185/ai_n16071183
says, its health-care costs were
$1,528 a vehicle and pension
costs $695. Total: $2,223.
Toyota's comparable costs: $201
for health care (according to A.T.
Kearney) and perhaps $100 total
(my estimate) for its definedcontribution
pension plan (to which
it says it contributes an average of
6.5 percent of workers' salary) and
for matching workers' 401(k)
contributions. GM refuses to
provide legacy costs for its 2005
vehicles. But by my estimate, they
were $1,850 for health care, $700
for pensions. Total: $2,550. (I'm
using GM's pension and healthcare
numbers and
WardsAuto.com's vehicleproduction
stats.) Numbers that
Toyota gave me indicate that its
U.S. health-care costs stayed at
about $200 a vehicle. And let's
use the same, probably-too-high
$100 for pension and 401(k) costs.
This produces a horrendous
$2,250- gap.
http://www.knowyourpension.org/downloads/20060313_Why_Toyota_Is_Beating_GM.pdf
But, if you read the Detroit papers (and others I am sure) almost all traditional suppliers are getting hammered. With their high wages and lower sales to the domestics they are all lining up to go bankrupt.
My brother in Law is a plant manager of a brand new plant in the south to supply to transplants. Paying nowhere near the wages of the traditional supplier plants. His company is completely global and the main reason they are building the parts (gas tanks) here is because they are so big and it is cheaper to make them here than ship air from overseas. Also it is mostly robotics so few floor workers.
Rocky
I've read other articles saying the cost was $1500 in total costs. This $2550 cost added on to a vehicle I don't believe. Those Toyota figures I question too. I'm not going to say one way or the other. My personal feelings is a company, reporter, can juggle the figures around to make unions look bad. The bottom line was GM was suppose to contribute "X" amount a year in to the pension fund.
"Pay as you go". Now they are really behind on pension contributions and are tacking those years of underfunding onto the cost of a vehicle.
The Bottom Line: b>
If GM would of funded the pension fund like they were suppose to then the true added cost with every benefit/wage per vehicle would be $900-$1500 per vehicle.
This is why the public is so mislead :mad:
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
In its toughest language yet, the United Auto Workers said Thursday that the union was not close to a deal with General Motors Corp. on a bailout for bankrupt Delphi Corp. or buyout packages for thousands of UAW workers.
The UAW posted a stinging response on its Web site to what it called "false reports" in the media that an agreement is near in three-way talks on reducing the ranks of hourly workers at GM and Delphi.
"Nothing could be further from the truth," the union said. "The parties are not close to working out such an agreement."
While the union confirmed discussions on a "retirement incentive program," it denied that any agreement has been reached in the ongoing talks related to GM's historic downsizing plans or the future of Delphi workers.
"There is no agreement on the retirement incentive program and only time will tell if we will be successful in this regard," the union said.
The blanket statement was unusual for the union, and it was released without the signature of either President Ron Gettelfinger or Vice President Richard Shoemaker, who heads the UAW bargaining team with GM and Delphi.
The union said that "many, many significant issues" have yet to be resolved, and shot down reports that a meeting next week of UAW local leaders in Detroit was anything more than a routine briefing.
Several news organizations reported that the local union officials could learn details of a possibly massive buyout program that could affect huge numbers of GM's 106,000 hourly workers and Delphi's 24,000. The reports helped push GM shares up 4.51 percent, or 92 cents, to $21.34 in New York Stock Exchange trading on Thursday.
GM is under enormous pressure to downsize its North American operations and stem financial losses that reached $8.6 billion in 2005.
On Thursday, Standard & Poor's Corp. warned that GM may have to restructure debt and contractual obligations if it's unable to cut factory capacity, lower pension and health care costs, and reverse market share losses.
People familiar with the situation have said that GM wants to shed at least 20,000 workers by offering buyouts to workers at or near retirement age. But the UAW insisted that no deal has been reached, and dashed hopes that one would be done by the union meeting.
"The suggestion that we have an outline of an agreement to review with you is unfortunately, just not true," the union said.
There was no immediate comment from GM or Delphi. Executives at both the automaker and its largest supplier have been tight-lipped on any progress in the day-to-day UAW negotiations.
But all sides agree that the issues before them are enormous. GM has laid out plans to shed 30,000 manufacturing jobs in North America by 2008. Delphi, the GM corporate spin-off that went bankrupt last year, is facing a March 30 court date to ask a federal judge to void its UAW contract, possibly setting the stage for a crippling strike.
Moreover, rank-and-file workers across the U.S. are besieging their local UAW leaders and national representatives to share even the smallest detail of potential buyout programs.
Reaction on the Internet has been swift with every news report on the situation, and rumors of deals-to-come are rampant in GM and Delphi plants.
"It seems like everybody is talking about the buyouts," said Bobby Millsap, a 27-year employee at GM's Oklahoma City assembly plant, which closed down last month
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060310/AUTO01/603100380/- 1148
They have been socking away money for years as they were supposed to. The issue is that Health care is going up faster than anyone ever imagined. And with falling market share the costs per car keeps going up.
That is why the big changes will have to be made with the Salary and sooner or later the hourly. The hourly are going to start taking on some health care costs. Is there anyone in this country getting a total ride on health care?
Toyota did not "steal" any jobs from Big 2.5....