Only thing I can think of is that Chrysler, trying to differentiate itself from Dodge, is trying for some sort of "modern art deco" look with its styling, and this is how it translates into actual design.
The current Chrysler logo really looks like something that a guy from the 1930s would have liked. I miss the older star logo...so simple and clean.
The current Chrysler logo really looks like something that a guy from the 1930s would have liked. I miss the older star logo...so simple and clean.
I think the current Chrysler logo actually is a rendition of what they used around 1939...a time when the Chrysler badge was much more prestigious than it is today.
I saw a new Sebring at the DC auto show, and in person I don't think they look as bad as they do in pics. The interior is way too plasticky, but hey, that's most cars these days. They're getting better at making it harder to tell the difference between the hard stuff and the soft stuff unless you actually touch it.
I remember the front seat being really good, legroom-wise, but the back was pretty cramped. And the trunk was pretty tiny...more compact than midsized. All in all, the '95-00 and '01-06 "cloud cars" made much better use of interior space.
They also had a few Avengers at the show, and I liked the styling of them much better. But they run into the same poor space packaging problems, and its back seat actually felt smaller than the Sebring's.
In the end though, if I were shopping for a new car, I doubt that either one of them would have a good chance of ending up in my driveway. If I was dead-set on a domestic nameplate, I think I'd prefer a Saturn Aura or Ford Fusion to the Sebring/Avenger.
I think Aura or Fusion might get my nod too, Andre, if domestic it had to be. I was fairly impressed by the base rental Fusion I picked up in Phoenix. It handles remarkably well, and that with rubber that shouldn't even be on a Radio Flyer.
Still, in this class at this price range, contrary to trend, Mazda would most likely get my dollars...
There's a review out there somewhere that says that the base 4cyl Fusion with the 5-spd is just a little power shy of being a truly inspired sport sedan.
Light weight, great suspension, sticky tires and (most shocking to me) the best clutch in the Ford lineup all add up to make for a totally enjoyable driving experience apparently. Only thing keeping it down is the 9 second 0-60 mph time.
The Ford looks a little more substantial, beefier, and the Mazda, to me, a little more nimble and, well you know, "zoom, zoom" and "heart of a sportscar" and all that rot, which I find appealing.
Proof positive that platform sharing has validity on a number of levels I think...
Platform sharing isn't bad (although there are limits, and I personally believe that the MKZ is too close to those limits, at least for what is supposed to be a luxury marque).
It's when auto makers engage in the badge-engineering nonsense that the problems start.
An escalade is the embodiement of a very little ego. A vehicle that is total flash with absolutely no substance and a dose arrogant ignorance with it. It's the philosophical antithesis of the Prius which in itself is another histeria vehicle but from the opposing camp. I could be caught dead in a prius but not one that I ever paid for
There are several cars(and an entire lineup of cars) I would never be caught dead driving... 1. Most everything in the Pontiac lineup from 1985 to 2005: The Grand Am: are waaay too common, there's like 10 of them in my high school parking lot, half are the too small 1992-1997 models and the other half are the ugly duckling 1998-2005 models. They are just cheap crap. The Grand Prix: was a sharply styled model up until 1997 when they gave it the 'Wide Track' treatment, which is more like the 'Bloated Whale' treatment; particuarly ugly with Pontiac's massive factory spoiler. They drive nice, especially in GTP form, but the styling completely polarizes me. The Sunfire: twin sister to the Cavalier. Need I say anything more about it? The Aztek: Pontiac had a great oppurtunity here and wasted it by completely f***ing up the exterior. I have two friends who own Aztek's, and the interior packaging on them is actually quite amazing. And when equipped with Versatrak AWD, they actually are fairly capable over moderately rough trails. And they're suprisingly fuel efficient, getting 20 around town, 23 in mixed driving and 27 on the open road. But... the exterior styling is so incredibly hideous I think even Mr. Hyde would cringe at its visage. I think the closest thing that exists in nature that would be comparable to an Aztek would the bulldog(though I'm sure this particular comparison has been drawn before this time... ) The only two Pontiac's you would ever catch me driving would be either a Bonneville or a Firebird. I've always liked Bonnevilles, the styling of the 1992-1999 models was attractive and the 2000-2005 styling was even more so, especially the 2003-05 models which had the silly bumper and side cladding shaved off. And the Firebird... just a hot car. Too bad they let it die.
2. Toyota Camry/Honda Accord: It's not that these are BAD cars, persay, just too common and too whitebread for my tastes. My uncle is head of the IT department for a land title corporation and drives all over the state of Colorado to their satellite offices on a daily basis. He had a silver '99 Accord LX that he bought with 45k in 2002 and managed to pile on 140kin three years. It never gave him any problems at all and was still running perfectly when he traded it in for an '03 LX last year. I also know some people who've put over 200,000 miles on Camry's and never had to do any major repairs. They're both very reliable cars with spacious interiors/trunks and not bad to drive (Accord is definitely better in driving characteristics than Camry), but I like to be able to find my car in the parking lot, thank you very much.
3. Ford Taurus: Original 1985-1990 and lightly updated 1991-1995 models still are pleasant designs and would be an acceptable third car if I ever needed one. You would never catch me dead, however, in a 1996-1999 model. Oh Ford, why the OVAL-KILL! 2000 and on models were better, but Ford just let the Taurus coast when they should have been updating it... they let a great nameplate die without dignity, but at least by resurrecting it and putting it on the 500, at least it will reside on a car worthy of bearing the nameplate.
4. Basically any compact/subcompact (Hyundai Accent/Elantra, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Chevy Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire, Dodge/Plymouth Neon, Suzuki Esteem, VW New Beetle/Jetta) chiefly because I'm 6'2" and don't fit into most of them comfortably and they don't have enough cargo capacity to fit my needs, secondly because I feel extremely vunerable in them with all these full size pickups and SUV's lumbering about. :surprise: The only two I would ever consider would be a VW Golf (I know they're considered chick cars, but I dare anyone here to call the GTI or R32 a chick car, and plus they have excellent interior packaging) or a Ford Focus wagon (suprisingly decent build quality and excellent cargo capacity for a small wagon). And driving an subcompact, particuarly the VW and Toyota models, doesn't exactly shout masculinity...
5. Honda Element/Scion xB: shipping containers on wheels. Enough said.
6. Any Buick model between 1987 (last year they manufactured GNX's) and now. I don't want to drive a geriatric car until I'm at the appropriate age, and even then I'll probably still eschew them for a nice Mercedes or BMW. The only recent Buick model that holds any interest for me is the Enclave because the styling and interior design is beautifully executed, I believe this car is a future classic. Otherwise, fugheddaboudit.
Most of these cars are decent and even superb driving vehicles that I wouldn't mind driving, actually...just wouldn't volunteer to drive and certainly not own. Not the cars to which I would appear at a function or with which I'd be photographed, basically.
1) '02-'05 BMW 7-Series - Especially compared to the timeless version that preceeded it, there was little reason to purchase this car over the other vehicles in the class aside from "needing the new BMW 7-Series" which is lame. 2) BMW X3 - pointless, over priced, and cramped. 3) current Cadillac CTS - funny looking & crummy interior 4) GMC Envoy/Isuzu Ascender/Chevrolet Trailblazer - POS. Period. At least you get a badge w/the Saab. Kind of. 5) Chevy Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire - POS. Period. 6) '01-current Chrysler Sebring/Dodge Stratus/Dodge Avenger - The Cirrus was snazzy and everything since has been...dumpy. The one exception is the '01-'04 Sebring Coupe, which were pretty, at least before Chrysler facelifted them. 7) Ford Focus - POS. Especially the new one. 8) Ford Excursion - self-explanatory 9) Honda Ridgeline - awful. 10)'02-'06 Honda CR-V - awful. 11) Honda Passport/Isuzu Rodeo - wretched, wretched vehicles. 12) Jaguar X-Type - I can't think of a louder way to scream "PLEASE DON'T THINK I'M POOR!" 13) Jeep Compas - I love how it looks like a cross between a Gremlin and a Pinto. Mostly Gremlin, though. 14) Kia Amanti - Kia should leave copying to the Chinese, because this car's a really bad rip-off of the classy '96-'02 M-B E-class 15) Land Rover Freelander - does this need explanation? 16) Lincoln MKZ - I always think of fiber supplements when I think of this car. I think it's appropriate given how inoffensive, bland, and ultimately useless it is. 17) Mitsubishi (except Eclipse) - Not a fan. 18) Dodge Dakota - Hideous, though the '08 facelift helps the front-end 19) Ford Ranger - Give me a break. 20) Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon - POS 21) Nissan Rogue - it looks like a Hyundai 22) Saab 9-5 - GM took a perfectly classy car and RUINED it with that horrible chrome all over the headlights & GM switchgear. It should've been redesigned ions ago. 23) Saturn Ion - If you're new to these boards, save yourself some embarrassment & ask someone why this one's on here. 24) Subaru Impreza - I'm not a fan of the WRX, and the others should be useless to anyone who doesn't spend at least 75% of their time commuting in snow. 25) Toyota Corolla - Yeah, I'm gonna drive this car, which seems like it was designed for midgets & is usually driven by geriatrics. Right. 26) 2008 Toyota Highlander - Hyundai inside & Mitsu Endeavor rear end. No thanks. 27) Toyota Matrix - absolutely vile little sh**box: noisy and slow with a weird seating area in front.
1.) Any Hyundai or Kia - if you're a single guy and you go on a first date riding around in one of these, chances are you won't be going on a second one. Hyunda and Kias scream, "I'm poor."
2.) Toyota Corolla/Camry - nothing says "I'm boring" quite like a Corolla. Camrys are the most overrated vehicles around. Underreported reliability issues galore.
3.) Volkswagen - chick cars, poor reliability. Might as leave your credit card at the dealership when you buy a VW. You'll be using it often to pay for repairs.
4.) Dodge Magnum - why would I want to ride around in a hearse?
5.) Any of the cutesy cars like the Toyota Yari, Chevy Aveo, Nissan Versa, Honda Fit. Those are death traps.
6.) Hummers - Hummers are for men who don't quite measure up in a certain area, and feel the need to offset that short coming.
7.) Subarus - all hideously ugly cars.
8.) Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Town & Country - ugly with spotty reliability.
9.) Saturns - ugly and underpowered offerings, the Saturn name should go the way of Plymouth and Yugo.
10.) Chevy Uplander - am I a van or an SUV? I have an identity crisis.
Yeah, decades of satisfied customers and rabid enthusiasts on every continent, who have made the brand perhaps the most revered mass market nameplate on the global market, must be wrong.
Yeah, decades of satisfied customers and rabid enthusiasts on every continent, who have made the brand perhaps the most revered mass market nameplate on the global market, must be wrong.
And I am sure that they would all trade them in for a Kia if given half the opportunity! :P
What is a Kia Amanti then? You know, the one that is a blatant ripoff of W210 E-class styling (with some Jag DNA mixed in)? Looks like MB inspired Kia... :P
Dull, snooty, uninspired...are you sure you don't mean Lexus?
Different cars, different trucks, but if it is a Ramcharger, guar-un-teed they gonna tailgate!
There must be a special form you fill out before you buy one declaring that you are an aggresive driver. Then you have to take a road test tailgating a minivan, blinking your high beams.
I had a friend that had one with a hemi and he had to get rid of it. It was getting down to feeding the truck or feeding the kids.
ugggh!! just rubs me the wrong way, big time. Likewise whatever that monstrosity Lincoln pickup thing is called. To think that's what my F150 got Hollyweird morphed into (shudder) :surprise:
Nissan X-Terra (era that had random body bulges here and there and on the tailgate, for no apparent reason)
Late '90's VW Jetta. Blunt in front. Blunt in rear. Tiny tires and wheel openings. Rear doors' cutout is an almost completely square. Only a European manufacturer like VW could get away with styling like this and it still be considered a desirable car. Actually, I probably detest this car's styling more than the X-Terra.
Chevy Avalanche.
Honda Ridgeline (styling rip-off of Avalanche)
Scion. Is this a shrunken Chevy Astro?
Ford Focus three-door. Looks like a Chevy Citation hatchback.
For good measure: 1978-79 Buick Century and Olds Cutlass Salon aeroback sedans. Need I say more?
Bill
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
What about those aeroback coupes? Those were really horrible.
The Aztec is too easy a shot. I'd avoid anything devaluing a formerly great muscle car name. Anyone remember the Olds Quad 442 based on the Calais? Attaching the 442 name to that was a disgrace. I'd have no problem with a Calais, but a Quad 442? No way.
Heck, they started devaluing muscle car names early in the game. Remember the 1974 GTO based on the Nova platform? How about the Mustang II Cobra? The worst is the 1975 Road Runner based on the new "small Fury" with the goofy "tunnel graphics" on the decklid that appeared to read: RO_____AD RUN_____NER.
What about those aeroback coupes? Those were really horrible.
I've seen pics of a Buick Century aeroback coupe that actually looked pretty sharp. It was a turbocharged sport coupe, in black, with some blackout trim and a spoiler, and some rally wheels. But by and large, these things were very awkward.
You really gotta wonder what they were thinking when they made these thigs! I could almost see making the Century and Cutlass Salon coupes ugly on purpose, to coax people into spending a few more bucks on a Cutlass Supreme notchback or Regal, but forcing that treatment on the sedans just makes no sense to me!
Oh, as for insulting the 4-4-2 name, how about this? In the late 70's, it received the Aeroback treatment as well! And I think they just stuck low-output Chevy 305's in them, so there wasn't anything performance-oriented about it.
I liked the 80's 4-4-2 though, the one based on the Cutlass Supreme notchback coupe. I thought it was good looking, and it at least had some performance, with an Olds 307-4bbl, bumped up from the normal 140 hp to 180.
was kind of a disappointment, too. Now the original Grand Am wasn't all that popular to begin with, being a new musclecar name launched on the eve of a fuel crisis, at the same time were passing up muscle for the personal luxury look, but at least the original, with its stable of 400 and 455 V-8's, had some performance about it. The '78-80 just used a Pontiac 301, and was just a gussied up LeMans.
When Pontiac put this name on the small N-body coupes for 1985, it probably actually did some good for the name's equity, in contrast to the way names like 4-4-2, Roadrunner, Charger, Challenger, GTO, etc got watered down.
In upper-level trim, I think the Cutlass Salon and Century aeroback coupes were better-looking than the 4-doors, anyway.
The real irony is, at the time, they were nice-riding and roomy cars. I rode halfways across the country in my friend's parents' new '78 Cutlass Salon Brougham sedan and it was quiet, plush, and comfortable...more so than you might expect in a car that size outside. But the looks...ugh!
Bill
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I beg to differ. I drive a '90 300TE 4MATIC wagon and I love it. I got it with 130k in December of 2005, and I've put over 15k on it in the last year and three months and never had any problems with it. It is one of the most comfortable, secure cars I've ever driven. The 4MATIC all wheel drive still works seamlessly, I've driven it through 3' drifts and six inches of greasy mud alike and never got it stuck once. It's built like a tank and yet still gets 22 mpg in mixed driving. If they're well maintained, these cars will go 200k + on the original motor and tranny. It is true that the newer models have some reliability issues, but to me there are few cars that are classier than a Benz. Their styling is just timeless. Even though my Benz is a now 18 model year old, metallic brown station wagon, I still get compliments on it from complete strangers. Now as for the Sephia... no offense, but it is one of the most cheaply thrown together, unreliable little sh**boxes on wheels ever offered for sale anywhere. I've had several friends who've owned them and had NOTHING but trouble with them. The Sephia is the primary reason Kia got such a bad reputation here in America, period. :lemon:
02-06 Toyota Camry-Camry has always been a decent looking car except for this generation of model. I sat in this car at an autoshow and did not like it. The new one is alot alot better looking though even though some people don;t like its interior.
03-07 Honda Accord-I am a Honda fan all the way but Honda messed the styling up on this particular generation of Accord. I think the 94-97 Accords were the best looking Accords.
92-98 and 99-04 Pontiac Grand Am-I never liked the way these 2 generations of Grand Ams looked.
03+ Toyota Corolla-The back end is way too tall looking. I prefer the looks of the 98-02 Corolla to the current generation of Corolla.
The 07 Sebring-Too much hard plastic on the inside and the looks of it are awkward especially the Crossfire front end. The late 90's Sebring is much better looking than the 07 model.
92-99 Pontiac Boneville-Overstyled though the 00-05 Bonevilles exterior was a big improvement over the 92-99 model.
04+ Mitsubishi Galant-This car is so overstyled especially on the front end of it. Much prefer the style of the 99-01 Galants.
the last generation Mitsubishi Outlander: The front end screams Pontiac Aztek with the bad nose job however Mitsu just styled a great 07 Outlander!
07 Acura MDX- As a Honda fan I loved the look of the 01-06 Acura MDX but the new one is a huge letdown in the looks department with the gladiator grille theme as I call it.
00-03 and 04+ Nissan Maxima-I do not like the looks of the last 2 Maximas. I much prefer the looks of the 97-99 Maxima's myself.
05+ Pontiac G6 interior is ok but the exterior just doesn;t look right although its not hideous.
Any VW-love their interiors but their latest round of styling with the Passat and Jetta just doesn't connect with me. I like the looks of the 02-05 Passats. Also reliability is not very good on VW's.
00+ Chevy Monte Carlo-The back end is so overstyled. I"d rather have the 95-99 Monte instead because at least it looks alot prettier on the outside than the newer Monte's.
Acura TSX-I'm sure its good but its kinda tight in the inside. I should also add the price is too high I think for this car.
Any Kia or Mercedes because of reliability issues that I am concerned with.
They certainly have come a long way, but as of today, I agree with that sentiment. No Korean product on our turf as of today that I would spend real money on.
I had a sudden epiphany just now. First off, let me apologize for bashing on that landmark of autmotive engineering that is the Kia Sephia. Secondly I must say you are one extremely sophisticated individual with excellent taste. I know this because you use use such eloquent and mature language so consistently in your postings. I also know this beause of your impeccable automotive pallete which can only be satisfied by only the finest automobiles. You could only own a Kia Sephia. You know that classic whitebread Korean styling turns the heads of all whose gaze falls upon her noble flanks. Sephia impresses even further with a fire breathing 1.8 liter inline four cranking out a pavement storming 125 horsepower through it's front wheels. Corvettes and Mustangs better beware this pocket rocket when it pulls up beside them at a stoplight! And you'll be pimpin' like a true gangsta ridin' on those sexy 14 inch steel rims with those sleek silver wheelcovers! And there's the interior, swathed in acres of luxurious high sheen plastic and seats with a comfort level that a medieval torturer would adore! And you'll always feel safe and secure traveling in this vehicle knowing that it got a single star crash safety rating from the IIHS and the NCAP and that if you get involved in accident above 20 mph, that sexy sheetmetal and world class frame will crumple like a tin can run over by an 18 wheeler. But who cares if the sheetmetal and frame is only half as thick as it's supposed to be? The Sephia's excellent economy and raw sex appeal more than make up for it, and plus it's fun to live dangerously! This car is meant to go the miles, I tell you. You'll enjoy the pleasures of spending twice amount of money fixing this car as you could have spent on a more reliable vehicle, but you it's worth the expense to enjoy the class and charisma of this pinnacle of modern automotive engineering, and when the guys ask what kind of car you drive and you say "I drive a Kia Sephia", you'll earn the instantaneous and universal respect of all around you.
Oh, I would be humbled to be the owner of a vehicle with such prestige! Thousands of dissatisfied, broke owners can't be wrong! :shades:
my I must have really pissed you off somewhere back there with my good sense and logic. You would make a good Boeing's employee.
You sound like a real bright person so that probably wasn't very hard to do.
To you I say, please relax...sit back...crack open a nice Diet Dyspepsia and enjoy your Honda Civic and life as you know it. Because try as you might and try as you may, you are only one person with just one opinion.
And while dorks continue to think of Kia as the doormats of the automobile industry enough smart people are availing themselves of that Kia engineering and riding in style.
Enough for Kia to win multiple awards of late. They are flying high and are soon to build a new manufacturing plant in America.
But you're too smart for them, aren't you? You could build your own plant with your own money, huh? You have the know-how and the jelly donuts and you have your game face on.
Tell me you drive a GM product and the world will be as one.
New Sebring: I think it's almost unanimously agreed here that it's a styling disaster. I agree with a poster earlier that the original ones were, and still are good looking.
Dodge Caliber: odd looking thing too
Chevy Uplander, and Montana SV6: Mismatched lines and styling, looks like it was made from GM's leftover parts bin.
Saturn Ion: feels and looks cheap
Any Cavalier/Sunfire: my ex had one, and they feel like they're about to fall apart, even when new.
Trailblazer EXT: the short wheelbase model is proportional, this long one looks too bulky
Taurus/Sable 95 up: I still like the originals from the 80s, but this one looked like it melted in the microwave.
Ford EXP: especially with the bugeyed headlamps. What were they thinking?
Gremlin, and Pacer: no, never
Suzuki X-90: A 2 seater SUV with a trunk! Nuff said!
VW New Beetle: too much of a chick car
Jag X-Type: Doesn't deserve to have a Jag badge.
Jeep Compass: looks like a rubbermaid molded body (especially the front bumper), reminds me of a dollar store toy car made in china.
MB ML: old and new. I always thought the X5 was waaay nicer looking.
Kia Amanti: no prestige, no styling consistency.
Original Kia Sportage: Not very nice looking at all.
Chevy Luminas 1990-1995? Have to be one of the ugliest domestic sedans of all time. The interior makes me wanna puke on those scotchgard seats they offered.
One thing I do agree on is that Hyundai changed quite a bit, and if I had to have one, I'd get the Azera, very beautiful car imo. As for Kias, I think their recent lineup is nice looking as well. I like the Optima, the Rio5, the Sorento, and the new Sportage only. And I'm commenting on their looks only. Haven't driven them though.
As for Corollas I agree too wih some here. I'd never want to own on e, and hate driving them, but I admit they are a decent buy if you want trouble free driving.
Oh, and the late 80's Caprice (looks like a giant supository)
That would be the '91-96 Caprice. You wouldn't want to use something shaped like a late 80's Caprice as a supository. Unless you're a masochist into pain and bloodsports and the like. :surprise:
iluvmysephia, the only Kia I have significant issue with is the Sephia and the 1st gen Sportage. The 2000-2004 Spectra was relatively mediocre but leagues beyond the Sephia. The 2000-2005 Optima was a good car with fairly plain but still attractive styling and high feature content. The Sorento is a smartly styled SUV, though it sucks too much gas for me to ever own one. I like the new Spectras (especially the hatch), the new Optimas and I even have some admiration for the Sedona. The first gen was acceptable if you were on a tight budget. The current generation is right up their with the Odyssey and Sienna in terms of feature content and power, and I think the styling is well executed and classy. If I had some rugrats, I would probably buy a Sedona or it's ritzier twin sister Hyundai Entourage. The new Sportage is a decent, capable cute ute with a great price.
Kia has come a very long while way in a very short time. I've been impressed with their progress, and Kia/Hyundai will only continue to evolve with time and are well on their way to making the Japenese nervous.
02-06 Toyota Camry-Camry has always been a decent looking car except for this generation of model. I sat in this car at an autoshow and did not like it. The new one is alot alot better looking though even though some people don;t like its interior.
The thing that I cannot just abide by with Camries is that pipe underneath the undercarriage (I assume it is some part of the exhaust, I've never really looked that closely) that appears to be hanging like 2 inches off the ground. It looks incredibly stupid, and is enough to turn me off the car completely.
I had a sudden epiphany just now. First off, let me apologize for bashing on that landmark of autmotive engineering that is the Kia Sephia.
I really tried hard not to reply to this, but this is one of the funniest posts I've ever seen on Edmunds. I feel kind of bad for our resident Kia fan, but it is like going out there and evangelizing for generic ramen noodles on a filet mignon forum.
It's made even funnier by the fact that my wife eons ago had one a Sephia as a rental, and it actually gave her such horrible back problems I had to lift her up, arms crossed to straighten her spine out. I'm not joking.
I once said on this forum I would never be caught dead driving a Hykia. Well the new Genesis, is now a good enough product to take my words back on Hyundai.
Comments
The current Chrysler logo really looks like something that a guy from the 1930s would have liked. I miss the older star logo...so simple and clean.
But how does she handle and respond to throttle?
Overall quality and refinement still has a ways to go...IMO.
I think the current Chrysler logo actually is a rendition of what they used around 1939...a time when the Chrysler badge was much more prestigious than it is today.
I saw a new Sebring at the DC auto show, and in person I don't think they look as bad as they do in pics. The interior is way too plasticky, but hey, that's most cars these days. They're getting better at making it harder to tell the difference between the hard stuff and the soft stuff unless you actually touch it.
I remember the front seat being really good, legroom-wise, but the back was pretty cramped. And the trunk was pretty tiny...more compact than midsized. All in all, the '95-00 and '01-06 "cloud cars" made much better use of interior space.
They also had a few Avengers at the show, and I liked the styling of them much better. But they run into the same poor space packaging problems, and its back seat actually felt smaller than the Sebring's.
In the end though, if I were shopping for a new car, I doubt that either one of them would have a good chance of ending up in my driveway. If I was dead-set on a domestic nameplate, I think I'd prefer a Saturn Aura or Ford Fusion to the Sebring/Avenger.
Still, in this class at this price range, contrary to trend, Mazda would most likely get my dollars...
Light weight, great suspension, sticky tires and (most shocking to me) the best clutch in the Ford lineup all add up to make for a totally enjoyable driving experience apparently. Only thing keeping it down is the 9 second 0-60 mph time.
The Ford looks a little more substantial, beefier, and the Mazda, to me, a little more nimble and, well you know, "zoom, zoom" and "heart of a sportscar" and all that rot, which I find appealing.
Proof positive that platform sharing has validity on a number of levels I think...
It's when auto makers engage in the badge-engineering nonsense that the problems start.
1. Most everything in the Pontiac lineup from 1985 to 2005: The Grand Am: are waaay too common, there's like 10 of them in my high school parking lot, half are the too small 1992-1997 models and the other half are the ugly duckling 1998-2005 models. They are just cheap crap.
The Grand Prix: was a sharply styled model up until 1997 when they gave it the 'Wide Track' treatment, which is more like the 'Bloated Whale' treatment; particuarly ugly with Pontiac's massive factory spoiler. They drive nice, especially in GTP form, but the styling completely polarizes me.
The Sunfire: twin sister to the Cavalier. Need I say anything more about it?
The Aztek: Pontiac had a great oppurtunity here and wasted it by completely f***ing up the exterior. I have two friends who own Aztek's, and the interior packaging on them is actually quite amazing. And when equipped with Versatrak AWD, they actually are fairly capable over moderately rough trails. And they're suprisingly fuel efficient, getting 20 around town, 23 in mixed driving and 27 on the open road. But... the exterior styling is so incredibly hideous I think even Mr. Hyde would cringe at its visage. I think the closest thing that exists in nature that would be comparable to an Aztek would the bulldog(though I'm sure this particular comparison has been drawn before this time...
The only two Pontiac's you would ever catch me driving would be either a Bonneville or a Firebird. I've always liked Bonnevilles, the styling of the 1992-1999 models was attractive and the 2000-2005 styling was even more so, especially the 2003-05 models which had the silly bumper and side cladding shaved off. And the Firebird... just a hot car. Too bad they let it die.
2. Toyota Camry/Honda Accord: It's not that these are BAD cars, persay, just too common and too whitebread for my tastes. My uncle is head of the IT department for a land title corporation and drives all over the state of Colorado to their satellite offices on a daily basis. He had a silver '99 Accord LX that he bought with 45k in 2002 and managed to pile on 140k in three years. It never gave him any problems at all and was still running perfectly when he traded it in for an '03 LX last year. I also know some people who've put over 200,000 miles on Camry's and never had to do any major repairs. They're both very reliable cars with spacious interiors/trunks and not bad to drive (Accord is definitely better in driving characteristics than Camry), but I like to be able to find my car in the parking lot, thank you very much.
3. Ford Taurus: Original 1985-1990 and lightly updated 1991-1995 models still are pleasant designs and would be an acceptable third car if I ever needed one. You would never catch me dead, however, in a 1996-1999 model. Oh Ford, why the OVAL-KILL!
4. Basically any compact/subcompact (Hyundai Accent/Elantra, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Chevy Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire, Dodge/Plymouth Neon, Suzuki Esteem, VW New Beetle/Jetta) chiefly because I'm 6'2" and don't fit into most of them comfortably and they don't have enough cargo capacity to fit my needs, secondly because I feel extremely vunerable in them with all these
full size pickups and SUV's lumbering about. :surprise: The only two I would ever consider would be a VW Golf (I know they're considered chick cars, but I dare anyone here to call the GTI or R32 a chick car, and plus they have excellent interior packaging) or a Ford Focus wagon (suprisingly decent build quality and excellent cargo capacity for a small wagon). And driving an subcompact, particuarly the VW and Toyota models, doesn't exactly shout masculinity...
5. Honda Element/Scion xB: shipping containers on wheels. Enough said.
6. Any Buick model between 1987 (last year they manufactured GNX's) and now. I don't want to drive a geriatric car until I'm at the appropriate age, and even then I'll probably still eschew them for a nice Mercedes or BMW.
The only recent Buick model that holds any interest for me is the Enclave because the styling and interior design is beautifully executed, I believe this car is a future classic. Otherwise, fugheddaboudit.
1) '02-'05 BMW 7-Series - Especially compared to the timeless version that preceeded it, there was little reason to purchase this car over the other vehicles in the class aside from "needing the new BMW 7-Series" which is lame.
2) BMW X3 - pointless, over priced, and cramped.
3) current Cadillac CTS - funny looking & crummy interior
4) GMC Envoy/Isuzu Ascender/Chevrolet Trailblazer - POS. Period. At least you get a badge w/the Saab. Kind of.
5) Chevy Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire - POS. Period.
6) '01-current Chrysler Sebring/Dodge Stratus/Dodge Avenger - The Cirrus was snazzy and everything since has been...dumpy. The one exception is the '01-'04 Sebring Coupe, which were pretty, at least before Chrysler facelifted them.
7) Ford Focus - POS. Especially the new one.
8) Ford Excursion - self-explanatory
9) Honda Ridgeline - awful.
10)'02-'06 Honda CR-V - awful.
11) Honda Passport/Isuzu Rodeo - wretched, wretched vehicles.
12) Jaguar X-Type - I can't think of a louder way to scream "PLEASE DON'T THINK I'M POOR!"
13) Jeep Compas - I love how it looks like a cross between a Gremlin and a Pinto. Mostly Gremlin, though.
14) Kia Amanti - Kia should leave copying to the Chinese, because this car's a really bad rip-off of the classy '96-'02 M-B E-class
15) Land Rover Freelander - does this need explanation?
16) Lincoln MKZ - I always think of fiber supplements when I think of this car. I think it's appropriate given how inoffensive, bland, and ultimately useless it is.
17) Mitsubishi (except Eclipse) - Not a fan.
18) Dodge Dakota - Hideous, though the '08 facelift helps the front-end
19) Ford Ranger - Give me a break.
20) Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon - POS
21) Nissan Rogue - it looks like a Hyundai
22) Saab 9-5 - GM took a perfectly classy car and RUINED it with that horrible chrome all over the headlights & GM switchgear. It should've been redesigned ions ago.
23) Saturn Ion - If you're new to these boards, save yourself some embarrassment & ask someone why this one's on here.
24) Subaru Impreza - I'm not a fan of the WRX, and the others should be useless to anyone who doesn't spend at least 75% of their time commuting in snow.
25) Toyota Corolla - Yeah, I'm gonna drive this car, which seems like it was designed for midgets & is usually driven by geriatrics. Right.
26) 2008 Toyota Highlander - Hyundai inside & Mitsu Endeavor rear end. No thanks.
27) Toyota Matrix - absolutely vile little sh**box: noisy and slow with a weird seating area in front.
2.) Toyota Corolla/Camry - nothing says "I'm boring" quite like a Corolla. Camrys are the most overrated vehicles around. Underreported reliability issues galore.
3.) Volkswagen - chick cars, poor reliability. Might as leave your credit card at the dealership when you buy a VW. You'll be using it often to pay for repairs.
4.) Dodge Magnum - why would I want to ride around in a hearse?
5.) Any of the cutesy cars like the Toyota Yari, Chevy Aveo, Nissan Versa, Honda Fit. Those are death traps.
6.) Hummers - Hummers are for men who don't quite measure up in a certain area, and feel the need to offset that short coming.
7.) Subarus - all hideously ugly cars.
8.) Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Town & Country - ugly with spotty reliability.
9.) Saturns - ugly and underpowered offerings, the Saturn name should go the way of Plymouth and Yugo.
10.) Chevy Uplander - am I a van or an SUV? I have an identity crisis.
Truedat, eh, compadres?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Three out of over, what, a hundred? Not too shabby.
I won't be owning any crossovers or SUVs personally. My wife may want one, but it sure as heck isn't gonna be mine.
And I am sure that they would all trade them in for a Kia if given half the opportunity! :P
Truth betold, iluvmysephia1 has never seen a MB worth spending a dime on. Just the truth.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Dull, snooty, uninspired...are you sure you don't mean Lexus?
Dodge Ramcharger.
A complete symbol of consumption bought by people that can't afford excessive consumption and are totally obsessed with tailgating and intimidation.
Still remember the ad campaign thats slogan was:
"Power that says get outta my way or I'll kick your butt"
So much for trying to abate road-rage. Great.
Oh, and make sure you get one with a hemi.... What's that sucking sound?
Different cars, different trucks, but if it is a Ramcharger, guar-un-teed they gonna tailgate!
There must be a special form you fill out before you buy one declaring that you are an aggresive driver. Then you have to take a road test tailgating a minivan, blinking your high beams.
I had a friend that had one with a hemi and he had to get rid of it. It was getting down to feeding the truck or feeding the kids.
Pontiac G6 - looks like it is cheaply made. It's advertised as a midsize, but seems a bit small for that segment.
Scion xB - cartoonishly boxy vehicle.
Ford Explorer Sport Trac - What's the point? Why not just get an F150?
Nissan X-Terra (era that had random body bulges here and there and on the tailgate, for no apparent reason)
Late '90's VW Jetta. Blunt in front.
Blunt in rear. Tiny tires and wheel openings. Rear doors' cutout is an almost completely square. Only a European manufacturer like VW could get away with styling like this and it still be considered a desirable car. Actually, I probably detest this car's styling more than the X-Terra.
Chevy Avalanche.
Honda Ridgeline (styling rip-off of Avalanche)
Scion. Is this a shrunken Chevy Astro?
Ford Focus three-door. Looks like a Chevy Citation hatchback.
For good measure: 1978-79 Buick Century and Olds Cutlass Salon aeroback sedans. Need I say more?
Bill
The Aztec is too easy a shot. I'd avoid anything devaluing a formerly great muscle car name. Anyone remember the Olds Quad 442 based on the Calais? Attaching the 442 name to that was a disgrace. I'd have no problem with a Calais, but a Quad 442? No way.
RO_____AD
RUN_____NER.
I've seen pics of a Buick Century aeroback coupe that actually looked pretty sharp. It was a turbocharged sport coupe, in black, with some blackout trim and a spoiler, and some rally wheels. But by and large, these things were very awkward.
You really gotta wonder what they were thinking when they made these thigs! I could almost see making the Century and Cutlass Salon coupes ugly on purpose, to coax people into spending a few more bucks on a Cutlass Supreme notchback or Regal, but forcing that treatment on the sedans just makes no sense to me!
Oh, as for insulting the 4-4-2 name, how about this? In the late 70's, it received the Aeroback treatment as well! And I think they just stuck low-output Chevy 305's in them, so there wasn't anything performance-oriented about it.
I liked the 80's 4-4-2 though, the one based on the Cutlass Supreme notchback coupe. I thought it was good looking, and it at least had some performance, with an Olds 307-4bbl, bumped up from the normal 140 hp to 180.
When Pontiac put this name on the small N-body coupes for 1985, it probably actually did some good for the name's equity, in contrast to the way names like 4-4-2, Roadrunner, Charger, Challenger, GTO, etc got watered down.
The real irony is, at the time, they were nice-riding and roomy cars. I rode halfways across the country in my friend's parents' new '78 Cutlass Salon Brougham sedan and it was quiet, plush, and comfortable...more so than you might expect in a car that size outside. But the looks...ugh!
Bill
Now as for the Sephia... no offense, but it is one of the most cheaply thrown together, unreliable little sh**boxes on wheels ever offered for sale anywhere. I've had several friends who've owned them and had NOTHING but trouble with them. The Sephia is the primary reason Kia got such a bad reputation here in America, period. :lemon:
I barf on those cars. Of yours.
I like my cars. My cars rock the house.
Your cars are laaaa--mmmm---oooohhhh!
Food fight.
Let's turn this into auto haiku again.
pf flyer -- is auto haiku still around? It's a gas to play...eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
03-07 Honda Accord-I am a Honda fan all the way but Honda messed the styling up on this particular generation of Accord. I think the 94-97 Accords were the best looking Accords.
92-98 and 99-04 Pontiac Grand Am-I never liked the way these 2 generations of Grand Ams looked.
03+ Toyota Corolla-The back end is way too tall looking. I prefer the looks of the 98-02 Corolla to the current generation of Corolla.
The 07 Sebring-Too much hard plastic on the inside and the looks of it are awkward especially the Crossfire front end. The late 90's Sebring is much better looking than the 07 model.
92-99 Pontiac Boneville-Overstyled though the 00-05 Bonevilles exterior was a big improvement over the 92-99 model.
04+ Mitsubishi Galant-This car is so overstyled especially on the front end of it. Much prefer the style of the 99-01 Galants.
the last generation Mitsubishi Outlander: The front end screams Pontiac Aztek with the bad nose job however Mitsu just styled a great 07 Outlander!
07 Acura MDX- As a Honda fan I loved the look of the 01-06 Acura MDX but the new one is a huge letdown in the looks department with the gladiator grille theme as I call it.
00-03 and 04+ Nissan Maxima-I do not like the looks of the last 2 Maximas. I much prefer the looks of the 97-99 Maxima's myself.
05+ Pontiac G6 interior is ok but the exterior just doesn;t
look right although its not hideous.
Any VW-love their interiors but their latest round of styling with the Passat and Jetta just doesn't connect with me. I like the looks of the 02-05 Passats. Also reliability is not very good on VW's.
00+ Chevy Monte Carlo-The back end is so overstyled. I"d rather have the 95-99 Monte instead because at least it looks alot prettier on the outside than the newer Monte's.
Acura TSX-I'm sure its good but its kinda tight in the inside. I should also add the price is too high I think for this car.
Any Kia or Mercedes because of reliability issues that I am concerned with.
They certainly have come a long way, but as of today, I agree with that sentiment. No Korean product on our turf as of today that I would spend real money on.
Someday...
You know that classic whitebread Korean styling turns the heads of all whose gaze falls upon her noble flanks. Sephia impresses even further with a fire breathing 1.8 liter inline four cranking out a pavement storming 125 horsepower through it's front wheels. Corvettes and Mustangs better beware this pocket rocket when it pulls up beside them at a stoplight! And you'll be pimpin' like a true gangsta ridin' on those sexy 14 inch steel rims with those sleek silver wheelcovers!
And there's the interior, swathed in acres of luxurious high sheen plastic and seats with a comfort level that a medieval torturer would adore! And you'll always feel safe and secure traveling in this vehicle knowing that it got a single star crash safety rating from the IIHS and the NCAP and that if you get involved in accident above 20 mph, that sexy sheetmetal and world class frame will crumple like a tin can run over by an 18 wheeler. But who cares if the sheetmetal and frame is only half as thick as it's supposed to be? The Sephia's excellent economy and raw sex appeal more than make up for it, and plus it's fun to live dangerously!
This car is meant to go the miles, I tell you. You'll enjoy the pleasures of spending twice amount of money fixing this car as you could have spent on a more reliable vehicle, but you it's worth the expense to enjoy the class and charisma of this pinnacle of modern automotive engineering, and when the guys ask what kind of car you drive and you say "I drive a Kia Sephia", you'll earn the instantaneous and universal respect of all around you.
Oh, I would be humbled to be the owner of a vehicle with such prestige! Thousands of dissatisfied, broke owners can't be wrong! :shades:
You sound like a real bright person so that probably wasn't very hard to do.
To you I say, please relax...sit back...crack open a nice Diet Dyspepsia and enjoy your Honda Civic and life as you know it. Because try as you might and try as you may, you are only one person with just one opinion.
And while dorks continue to think of Kia as the doormats of the automobile industry enough smart people are availing themselves of that Kia engineering and riding in style.
Enough for Kia to win multiple awards of late. They are flying high and are soon to build a new manufacturing plant in America.
But you're too smart for them, aren't you? You could build your own plant with your own money, huh? You have the know-how and the jelly donuts and you have your game face on.
Tell me you drive a GM product and the world will be as one.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
New Sebring: I think it's almost unanimously agreed here that it's a styling disaster. I agree with a poster earlier that the original ones were, and still are good looking.
Dodge Caliber: odd looking thing too
Chevy Uplander, and Montana SV6: Mismatched lines and styling, looks like it was made from GM's leftover parts bin.
Saturn Ion: feels and looks cheap
Any Cavalier/Sunfire: my ex had one, and they feel like they're about to fall apart, even when new.
Trailblazer EXT: the short wheelbase model is proportional, this long one looks too bulky
Taurus/Sable 95 up: I still like the originals from the 80s, but this one looked like it melted in the microwave.
Ford EXP: especially with the bugeyed headlamps. What were they thinking?
Gremlin, and Pacer: no, never
Suzuki X-90: A 2 seater SUV with a trunk! Nuff said!
VW New Beetle: too much of a chick car
Jag X-Type: Doesn't deserve to have a Jag badge.
Jeep Compass: looks like a rubbermaid molded body (especially the front bumper), reminds me of a dollar store toy car made in china.
MB ML: old and new. I always thought the X5 was waaay nicer looking.
Kia Amanti: no prestige, no styling consistency.
Original Kia Sportage: Not very nice looking at all.
Chevy Luminas 1990-1995? Have to be one of the ugliest domestic sedans of all time. The interior makes me wanna puke on those scotchgard seats they offered.
One thing I do agree on is that Hyundai changed quite a bit, and if I had to have one, I'd get the Azera, very beautiful car imo. As for Kias, I think their recent lineup is nice looking as well. I like the Optima, the Rio5, the Sorento, and the new Sportage only. And I'm commenting on their looks only. Haven't driven them though.
As for Corollas I agree too wih some here. I'd never want to own on e, and hate driving them, but I admit they are a decent buy if you want trouble free driving.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
74-78 Mustang
Any Hummer (though I enjoy giggling at the name)
K-Cars
The Pacer/Gremlin/Pinto
Yugo
Aztec
The FJ Cruiser, I might actually be caught dead driving it. (My wife and I test drove it and it had the worst blind spots I've ever seen)
Oh, and the late 80's Caprice (looks like a giant supository)
That would be the '91-96 Caprice. You wouldn't want to use something shaped like a late 80's Caprice as a supository. Unless you're a masochist into pain and bloodsports and the like. :surprise:
The 2000-2004 Spectra was relatively mediocre but leagues beyond the Sephia. The 2000-2005 Optima was a good car with fairly plain but still attractive styling and high feature content. The Sorento is a smartly styled SUV, though it sucks too much gas for me to ever own one. I like the new Spectras (especially the hatch), the new Optimas and I even have some admiration for the Sedona. The first gen was acceptable if you were on a tight budget. The current generation is right up their with the Odyssey and Sienna in terms of feature content and power, and I think the styling is well executed and classy. If I had some rugrats, I would probably buy a Sedona or it's ritzier twin sister Hyundai Entourage. The new Sportage is a decent, capable cute ute with a great price.
Kia has come a very long while way in a very short time. I've been impressed with their progress, and Kia/Hyundai will only continue to evolve with time and are well on their way to making the Japenese nervous.
The thing that I cannot just abide by with Camries is that pipe underneath the undercarriage (I assume it is some part of the exhaust, I've never really looked that closely) that appears to be hanging like 2 inches off the ground. It looks incredibly stupid, and is enough to turn me off the car completely.
I really tried hard not to reply to this, but this is one of the funniest posts I've ever seen on Edmunds. I feel kind of bad for our resident Kia fan, but it is like going out there and evangelizing for generic ramen noodles on a filet mignon forum.
It's made even funnier by the fact that my wife eons ago had one a Sephia as a rental, and it actually gave her such horrible back problems I had to lift her up, arms crossed to straighten her spine out. I'm not joking.
Hyundai (people will think I'm a bigger loser than I really am)
Kia (same as above)
Hummer (unless I have a lot of money to burn at the gas pump)
"Hummer (people would know I'm a major loser)"
Income's got nothing to do with it...
Pimp-mobile? You'd need a gold package.
Kia, has a ways to go yet !.....
Rocky