I remember driving my old 80 Accord across the country in 82. Driving in South Dakota I might as well have been in a flying saucer from the reaction to it.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I would guess that those early imports from Japan were designed as local commuters, never over 30-40 mph, with a 4 cyl engine that achieved a remarkable (at that time) over-20 mpg...probably only had 60-85 HP, but us Americans think that every car is designed for NY-LA commuting...back in the 60s and 70s, most British Leyland cars (MG, Austin-Healey, Triumph, etc) were the same commuter cars, and when folks would drive the 120 mile length of the NJ turnpike at 60 mph, those little 4 cyl engines simply blew up because they were NEVER designed for that kind of running...our V8s were, of course, they thrived at sustained running at 70 mph, hour after hour, day after day...and then the UAW got too powerful, and the automotive world went to hell...did I EVER mention that UAW floorsweepers are not worth $35/hour plus benefits???...if I didn't just email me and I will supply you with my dissertation, free of charge... :P :shades:
uplanderguy: True, but look inside a Pinto, Gremlin, Datsun B210, or Corolla of the same year and see what you got. Compare steering wheels too. That's all I'm saying.
Point taken with the Gremlin - although I do like the Levi's editions - but the Pinto was FAR better than the Vega in this regard. My friend's mother had a well-optioned 1972 Pinto Runabout that was replaced by a V-6 1977 Pinto hatchback, and my aunt had a basic 1977 Pinto sedan (no hatchback).
Their interiors were far better finished and constructed than any Vega interior.
uplanderguy: And the engine warranty in '76 and '77 on Vega was as long as Ford and some of the others give you today.
That's because GM had to offer this warranty to get anyone to even consider buying the car! The Vega had a terrible reputation by 1976, which is why GM was forced to offer this warranty.
I've always said that the Vega did as much for Toyota, Honda and Nissan than they did for themselves.
No one could deny that Chevy was forced to add that warranty--much like Hyundai had to twenty years later--but there were engineering improvements made to that '76 engine which made the later versions better than the earlier ones.
I know styling is subjective, but I can never remember seeing a single Pinto that had the interior quality of the Vega's Custom Interior option (Camaro bucket seats) and GT instrumentation and thick-rim wheel.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I do think that the Vega was a really nice looking car, especially the newer ones that had the "non grille" slits in the front.
My friend's '74 GT hatchback was metallic dark blue, and it was a really nice car to ride in and drive. It had a 4 speed and AFAIR the non-GTs had 3 speed manuals standard.
Too bad about the rust and durability issues, because it was a nice car otherwise.
"I think they're neat cars with some advanced engineering for that time. The car stickered at $6K but the original owner paid $4,500 for it, before trade....my friend has the paperwork."
A friend of mine in the BMW CCA has a Cosworth; he converted his to sidedraft Webers; apparently it's a popular mod for that car.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The car stickered at $6K but the original owner paid $4,500 for it, before trade....my friend has the paperwork.
I have a feeling that the typical car buyer of the time still balked at paying $6,000, or even $4500 for a Vega, no matter how well-equipped it was. Just as a reference point, my grandparents' '75 Dart Swinger was only around $5,000, as was my Mom's '75 LeMans.
I never could figure out how the LeMans and the Dart came in so close in price, though, with one being a midsize V-8 and the other a compact slant six. Both were equipped about the same otherwise...at, ac, ps, pb, am/fm radio, etc. Maybe the Dart was still a hot item, being a compact in an era when we were still reeling from the gas crisis, while the LeMans was starting to become a bit of a redheaded stepchild, as buyers flocked to the Grand Prix.
Not saying the Cosworth Vega wasn't worth it, but I think most small car buyers of the time still wanted their small cars to be cheap and basic, and it was just too far ahead of its time.
No other major country would let their companies give away jobs en masse like we have for the last 20 years, certainly China wouldn't. The reason it happened was because it served the purposes of the American ruling class coming out of WWII, (after 1945). Recall that immediately after WWII, American (capitalist aka rich/super rich state) and Soviet (deformed worker aka Stalinist state) divided the world between them with European and Japanese capital prostrate. In an effort to prevent the European masses from coming under the convincing influence of Soviet hegemony, the American ruling class needed to help rebuild the Western European economies on a capitalist basis and it needed European,and global capitalism to seem to work, at least until the Soviet hegemony was destroyed.
Of course, the only way to do this was to open up USA markets to Western European and Japanese capital and allow the American consumer to buy their junk; later on this was extended to the Asian capitalists. In the long run, it worked. The USSR was bankrupted in 1989 and the European masses bought into the propaganda that global capitalism could actually work : full employment, rising living standards and reforms as the normal conditions.
Things started to fall apart, both for the capitalist elites and the American masses starting in the 1970s. For the elites, the tendency of the rate of profit to fall was a great drag on profits, so, their solution was to send President Nixon to China in 1972 and open China up for big capital. China, with its hordes of low wage workers, marvelously restored the increased rate in the growth of profit. However, it led to a steady erosion in the standard of living of the American masses via continuous outsourcing of good paying jobs with benefits and replacing them with lower paying jobs with no/limited benefits. Now, even low or no benefit jobs are now scarce.
The illusion of prosperity of the global capitalist system was maintained, for the last 20 years, by the creation of a massive credit/debt bubble (inflated real estate) which served to artificially expand the limits of the market by making up the loss, and then some, of purchasing power of the American consumer and allowing USA to continue to buy the junk of the other capitalist countries.
Well, the limits of the credit/debt bubble has now gone beyond its limits, American capitalism has collapsed, and, since the other capitalist powers depended on the American consumer to buy their junk, the global capitalist system soon also collapsed.
Well, I'm not quite sure I'd say capitalism has collapsed. We are definitely in a very severe recession and restructuring mode. America will be less able to dictate and control economic issues around the globe, just like what happened to the UK as the US arose. Jobs and economic structure may significantly change like during the industrial revolution move from farms to cities. I think an interesting thing to watch is whether consumer's are going to be more frugal in their buying decisions and save at a greater rate into the future. If so, that will prolong the current economic problems, but longer term possibly strengthen the country and its fiscal quagmire. Mark my word, ignore all the political bantering because Democrat or Republican the government is going to have to deflate its currency to pay off all this debt which means a few years down the road we'll likely see a resurgence of inflation and higher interest rates. The only other way out I see is a major war which is unlikely and ultimately leads back to fiscal problems further down the road. The Tea Party may claim we will cut the size of government to restore the economy, but while that may help a little, its not going to get it done because the bulk of the fiscal problems and expenditures are tied to entitlements, interest payments and defense. Perhaps I'm wrong, but even if we lose some economic control and influence out of all of this, I think a decade from now the US will emerge stronger. Looking beyond the short term I'm a seller of bonds and buyer of equities (but still diversified) because I think we'll ride the storm out over time. Some will get hurt, a few will make out, but a rapidly rising America a century ago didn't leave a ruined Europe behind. It's clout may have been weakened, but its economy and citizens weren't left ruined either. Also, some day we'll get back a political leader like Reagan or Bill Clinton that actually is pragmatic and has some charisma that can create some optimism and enthusiasm - something that has been lacking in Washington for a decade now and probably makes more of a real difference than whether they are a liberal or conservative.
"American capitalism has collapsed, and, since the other capitalist powers depended on the American consumer to buy their junk, the global capitalist system soon also collapsed."
I don't think American capitalism has collapsed, just going thru another one of its "economic corrections" just like in the 1800s, when foreign trade meant nothing...maybe I sound like a broken record, and maybe I AM a broken record, but I think we are seeing this situation as a result of simple excesses...houses and condos that were $50K two years earlier, now "appraised" at $250K (as tho that had ANY sense of reality, you knew that bubble had to pop when everything got so high no one could afford them) and, frankly, unions like the UAW who had it going well for years, paying floorsweepers and other VERY unskilled labor FAR in excess of their inherent value, and, at some point, that game of musical chairs also had to stop...the condos weren't worth it, the homes weren't worth it, and that UAW labor wasn't, and will never be, worth it...the Big 3 auto industry was a major employer at one time (one in every six jobs was Big 3 auto related), but no more...other makers, paying closer to what reality demands, have given us a BETTER (overall, with certain exceptions) auto industry at lower cost with better cars (lemko's cars as the only exception in the Milky Way galaxy and the rest of the known Universe)...
Public pensions are the next domino to go, as the fraud in those makes the real estate bubble look tame...
Capitalism will wring out the excesses and what remains will be good...it is just that the excesses will be painful for those who see their gravy train evaporate...
Public pensions are the next domino to go, as the fraud in those makes the real estate bubble look tame...
I watched on the news tonight of a NYC cop who retired at 44 with a pension of $101K. He worked tons of over time for 2 years before he retired to bring his salary pay way up. I also have a buddy who was a NY correctional officer, and he retired at 49 with a pension that was 80% of his pay plus medical benefits. Sheesh.
They do that a lot...the pension payout will be, say, 80% of THEIR LAST 2 YEARS AVERAGE PAYCHECKS, so they work much overtime to raise their checks, and then retire with 80% of that higher amount...that crap needs to stop NOW...
".....They do that a lot...the pension payout will be, say, 80% of THEIR LAST 2 YEARS AVERAGE PAYCHECKS, so they work much overtime to raise their checks, and then retire with 80% of that higher amount...that crap needs to stop NOW... "
That is how cities and towns, as Wimpy would say, "gladly pay them Tuesday for a hamburger today". I think this is what is the downfall of pensions (both public and private). Promise the world and then kick the can down the street. Now, it's Tuesday, and guess what (no surprise) Wimpy is still BROKE!!!
Here in Mass and RI, it is MANDATORY that and work being done in a public road have a paid police detail (except, the cities and towns are EXEMPT). So, when I enter a manhole, many days we need a police officer with us (min. 4 hrs at time and a half). This is done so the towns don't have to worry as much about raises.
All the more reason why I believe that accountants and not lawyers are a bigger danger to us.
All the more reason why I believe that accountants and not lawyers are a bigger danger to us.
No, politicians! The concept of paying low but with good benefits might not be all bad if they invested monies for down the road given the long period of present value. However, you're right, they blew all the initial cost savings on other stuff and let someone down the road worry about it. Not unlike the Social Security mess. Putting overtime into pension calculations is just stupid though since you're factoring in short term incremental wages which weren't generally subject to additional fringe benefits.
The hedge fund robber baron set makes the worst unionized laziness look like the pinnacle of honesty and accountability. How they can be safe from mobs waving pitchforks and torches amazes me.
Hey don't worry, the politicians are telling us new green jobs will make it up. Let's see, the EPA just approved 15% ethanol gas that will damage our car and lawnmower engines in a give to companies like Archer Daniel Midland (ADM) and big corporate farmers. Uncle will take good care of you...
Notice the French are striking....the British are probably going to be upset enough to take action too with their new austerity plans. And in the US...many can't be bothered to even mail in an absentee ballot.
There is a new miracle industy waiting in the wings that will save the day, the free traders and socalled capitalists say so, they couldn't be wrong, could they?
While I see the point, how many of those categories come down to cheaper labor (or overpriced labor in the US)?
Let's say that we make cellphones here...while I cannot prove this, I would bet that the cost of a cellphone would skyrocket due to unionized labor rates here, plus UAW-style work restrictions (I don't work on candy bar phones, I only work on flip phones)...higher phone cost would mean that fewer people own them, which means that fewer towers would be put up, which means that our cellphone network would be as spotty as it was in the 1980s...there is no free lunch...do not assume that everything is static...if the phones cost more than the plans would cost more and fewer folks would have them...
What about quality?...did we not shoot ourselves in the foot with some of the automotive crap we made in the last 20-30 years???...why is that significant, and how come I am not "over that"???...because when Ford wants to build an new auto plant, dealing with the UAW over the last 30 years means the plant is built in Brazil, BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHO AND WHAT THEY ARE DEALING WITH, AND THE LAST 30 YEARS SHOWED THEM WHY THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE USA...it isn't just "time to get over it", many billion dollar decisions are being made because of what unreasonable American labor can do...strike, sabotage, absenteeism, poor quality workmanship, asinine restrictive work rules, etc.
Get rid of those problems, outlaw unions, outlaw strikes, and maybe manufacturing will come back here, but why should they do so now, and ESPECIALLY with the union-loving goon we now have as Pres???
I recommend good old fashion tariffs on goods coming into this country. They could be used to lower our budget deficit. They would definitely lower our trade deficit. It would mean more jobs for Americans who would be put to work by companies that could produce products at a price point more in line with imported goods.
What would it mean?
No more $90 Bicylces made in China. No more cheap consumer goods that clutter up our garages and attics. Sure, products would cost more, but at least our economy would improve as more people work. I never fully bought the free trade argument.
We have plenty of natural resources in this country including oil, natural gas, and our ace in the hole - food. We are still the breadbasket of the world.
I would vote for any politician that would endorse a trade policy that would for a change put the interest of the American people and the country's economic health ahead of the interests of our trading partners and the multinational corporations
And I never bought the tariff argument, which boils down to punishing consumers with a sneaky, back door tax to prop up companies that can't compete.
Tariffs are hugely regressive. They hurt the lower income consumer who tries to make ends meet by choosing a South Korean car over a more expensive American car. But no one talks about going after the affluent consumer who chooses a $90K Mercedes S-class over a $50K Cadillac, even though that does far more damage to GM's bottom line.
Companies that can make what I want at a price that I'm willing to pay don't need tariff protection.
Companies that can't do this don't deserve tariff protection.
it was only that simple. In reality, it's far from it. As the Bush administration found out with the steel tariffs put in place in 2002 IIRC.
I read the article. The problem was that the increase in the steel prices caused by the tariffs caused an increase in the cost of the products that were made in I believe California. That was because the imported products they were competing with were from countries like Korea which were manufacturing using the cheap imported steel overseas. If that product from Korea had the same percent tariff as the steel those workers would not have lost their jobs.
That was because the imported products they were competing with were from countries like Korea which were manufacturing
If it's that simple, why did the EU threaten to retaliate. As long as we have companies that export and we have many, we can't blindly tariff imports w/o retaliation and it effected far more areas than just California.
I'd be curious to see a study comparing job losses caused by productivity improvements vs off shoring / cheap imports.
I've worked for many different companies in different industries and the amount of jobs that I've witnessed being eliminated due to productivity improvements have far out weighed jobs lost due to out sourcing. But my experience is limited to smaller companies that don't have international operations. I'd be curious to see how off shoring vs. productivity increases compare in regards to the greater economy.
That's nice in theory, but no offense meant, I have to call BS on some of it. The chase for ever-cheaper labor has been sought more by the USA than any other first world nation over the past 30 years. And look what it has wrought - shamefully offshored and decimated manufacturing sector, malaisey economic crisis, greatest socio-economic gap in nearly a century, addiction to Chinese-owned debt, and a sector of financier robber barons who continue to reap unjustified fortunes. Labor prices have almost nothing to do with this. Many places with more expensive labor than the US still have a better standard and likely a better financial future. Race to the bottom, and see what you get.
Opening China will eventually be seen as if not the greatest mistake in the history of western civilization, at least the greatest mistake of the past century.
Opening China will eventually be seen as if not the greatest mistake in the history of western civilization, at least the greatest mistake of the past century.
Credit that to Kissinger just like the dragged out "peace with honor" debacle in Viet Nam that still ended ugly while many more lives were plain wasted. Incidentally, I believe Henry Kissinger was a New Yorker so maybe he had ties to Wall Street. Its funny how the US really built up China to compete just like we did Japan.
However, I still think some of this is the American consumers' fault. American Airlines found out they wouldn't pay out a mere $10 for more room, but they still whine and complain about cramped planes. Americans are bad at math too. They'll buy the cheapest quality and priced appliances that don't last long and end up paying more over a lifetime. We're turning into a nation of idiots and cry babies, wanting someone to be responsible for all the actions and mistakes they make because they dumbed down or went on the cheap.
As for Wall Street, it is far too motivated by short term results to consider the future. That alone puts us in a bad strategic competitive posture because short term tactics overly dominate decision making (what's the next quarter, instead of how will we be doing in 5 years). Too many there are also so motivated by greed that they'd probably sell out their country for an extra million in their pocket...for that matter, maybe even their mother, spouse or child. On Wall Street success is dominated by money and status objects like show off cars and homes on the Island. Meanwhile, US Business whines about government, but then they are the first ones in line lobbying for handouts or special tax treatment.
America needs to wake up, stop the blame game and start taking responsibility.
Opening China will eventually be seen as if not the greatest mistake in the history of western civilization, at least the greatest mistake of the past century.
Why stop with China? Why not argue that opening Japan was at least as big a mistake? Before Japanese cameras & transistor radios started to appear on the U.S. market in the mid 1950s, no American would even consider buying anything of Asian origin. I'm old enough to remember when "made in Japan" was synonymous with "cheap & shabby".
That was before we learned to love Sony, Panasonic, Toyota & Honda in the 1960s & 1970s. After that, it was no big deal to buy Korean cars in the 1980s. (The early Hyundais were pretty bad, but the Koreans learned from their mistakes. Now, the latest Sonata is fully the equal of any mid-priced Japanese or American sedan.)
Japan opened the door to the U.S. markets & paved the way for other Asian countries. If not for Japan, we wouldn't even be discussing China.
China to slow exports of rare earth by 30%. Used to make hybrids.
France now shutting down their country over moving retirement age to 62. Rioters have 2/3 of all gas stations blocked off and country has come to a halt. Fuel trucks can't get to the stations.
Capitalist Sharpton is millionaire teaching dependency on big government
How bout that 'The rent is too damn high' party
GE is bringing 400 jobs back to America. They say Americans will buy more refrigerators if they are made in the USA. Chrysler is opening a new 8 speed tranny plant in Kokomo.
US has second largest deposits of rare earth but for now we buy it from China because it is found mixed with radioactive elements and poisons so we let the Chinese mine it instead. Another bad side of Hybrids.
Ethanol fuel is a hoax. A money losing proposition.
Hopefully we will have a new party of looters in the house and senate in 12 days.
China to slow exports of rare earth by 30%. Used to make hybrids.
The danger of having one source for something critical.
France now shutting down their country over moving retirement age to 62. Rioters have 2/3 of all gas stations blocked off and country has come to a halt. Fuel trucks can't get to the stations.
We wish we could retire that early. They have 6 weeks vacation/year, also.
GE is bringing 400 jobs back to America. They say Americans will buy more refrigerators if they are made in the USA. Chrysler is opening a new 8 speed tranny plant in Kokomo.
Cool. But Chrysler ought to work on compelling vehicles rather than 8 speed transmissions IMHO.
US has second largest deposits of rare earth but for now we buy it from China because it is found mixed with radioactive elements and poisons so we let the Chinese mine it instead. Another bad side of Hybrids.
No, another bad side of little environmental regulation in China. But I think they will improve quickly. We went through the same environmental problems but mostly cleaned up in the '70's. China will inevitably do the same.
Ethanol fuel is a hoax. A money losing proposition.
Totally agree. As is the "flex fuel" badge on GM vehicles. A marketing gimmick.
Hopefully we will have a new party of looters in the house and senate in 12 days.
The problem is that they are still looters.
On topic, what is an American car these days? My take is that it is a vehicle built in this country with as much USA parts as possible. So Camry is a US car. Ford Fusion is mostly not a US car. Chrysler minivans are not US cars (aren't they made in Canada?). US made Hondas and Acuras are US cars.
On topic, what is an American car these days? My take is that it is a vehicle built in this country with as much USA parts as possible
This is sure better to me than a foreign nameplate built in a foreign country, but does it mean absolutely nothing to you that the Corporation was founded and is headquartered, along with most all upper management and most engineering, and has been for decades, in a foreign country? For example, I think just how 'foreign' Toyota really is became apparent when their top U.S. management showed how little influence any of them really had in the recall procedure. It was all Mr. Toyoda and the Japanese management team's decisions.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Cool. But Chrysler ought to work on compelling vehicles rather than 8 speed transmissions IMHO.
The new Jeep Grand Cherokee won a comparison test in Car and Driver over their Kia, Nissan and Toyota competitors.
I also noticed recently when riding in the front seat of my sister-in-law's 2001 Jeep Cherokee (with over 200,000 miles) how comfortable the seats are. They actually have thick foam padding that cushions your bottom. That's a rarity in today's cars. Most feel like your sitting on a piece of cardboard. They are way too hard.
Of course, I align with your thinking on this and many points.
Perhaps this will shed some light on the protectionist elite:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By next year about 80% of the vehicles Korean automaker Hyundai sells in the United States will be built here, the CEO of the automaker's U.S. arm told CNNMoney.
They'll buy the cheapest quality and priced appliances that don't last long and end up paying more over a lifetime.
This runs contrary to my thinking. I will buy the best quality appliances I can afford. I have a Whirlpool washer and dryer that are still going strong after 13+ years. I'm hoping they'll last forever. Back in the day, appliances were built to standards accounting for the worst case scenario. That's why you still see a lot of 1940s refrigerators still in use. Today, appliances are built just to be "good enough."
I don't know if we so much "opened up" Japan versus occupied it following WWII. Sometimes you can find items stamped "Made in Occupied Japan" at flea markets.
The Japanese camera industry devastated the German camera industry more than anything. The German Leica camera was the ne plus ultra of cameras back in the day.
I don't believe Japanese electronics were all that great, just cheaper. The United States made a lot of excellent high-end hi-fi and stereo equipment back in the day - especially brands like McIntosh. My friend had an old stereo system consisting of a lot of McIntosh and Heathkit components along with Klipsch horns that would shame modern systems.
Sorry, I can't see that as any better than apples to oranges. Japan does not have the same geopolitical ambitions nor the same appetite for domestic barbarity as China. Japan was not forced open by a cabal of sinister and cowardly profiteer globalists who had a goal of undermining what had been established in the US. Japan is just a distraction to the gross mistake of opening China - a move that was done to flood the market with cheap (and often poisonous) goods that would distract and satiate the sheeple as their own standard of living and future was compromised. If not for opening China, who then sold debt which allowed the US to remain as an unsustainable and wasteful policeman of the world, many of the troubles of today and the future would not exist. At the minimum, greatest mistake of the past century, with the potential for destroying western civilization, or what was.
Maybe it's time to send some of the countries we help defend a bill;) Do we really need to keep 70k troops in Germany?
Best I've been able to find it Germany has a GDP of around 3.3T and spends 40B on defense. France spends more on defense than Germany (according to Wikipedia)
The GDP of the US is around 14T and spends $500-600B on defense. So we have roughly 4x the GDP and spend 10x on defense. I wonder what would happen if we could cut defense spending in 1/2. Maybe we could pay for kids to go to college along with other beneficial programs.
Shhh...things like that might brand you as some kind of un-American revolutionary...how dare anyone think that low wages and racing to the bottom aren't the cure to what ails us.
The Japanese camera industry devastated the German camera industry more than anything. The German Leica camera was the ne plus ultra of cameras back in the day.
Yeah, I know about Leicas. My prized possession is an early 70s vintage Leica M2-R with 3 lenses. Years ago, I had an M3, but I had to sell that to pay the rent. Still miss that camera.
The Germans were slow to rebuild their optical industry after WWII, & the Japanese took advantage of this. When American photojournalists covering the Korean War came to Tokyo for R&R (this was in the early 50s), representatives of Nikon & Canon put samples in their hands. Back then, Nikon was building a clone of the Contax (Leica's chief German competitor) while Canon was more or less knocking off prewar Leica designs. (I have an '53 or '54 Canon IV-S2, which takes a Leica screw-mount lens.)
Although WWII had ended years earlier, new German cameras were still in short supply, so pros & serious amateurs jumped on the Japanese newcomers & found that they were as good as the Germans. That was the beginning of the end of German supremacy in fine cameras. By the early 60s, the Japanese were the innovators & the Germans were playing catch-up.
The UK is pulling out of Germany with a target date of 2020 - finally letting the hypocritical ego of 1945 pass, and admitting they can't afford to keep up the charade. Certainly the US should follow suit and let Europe defend itself from the neo-Soviets to the east - they definitely have the resources to do so. But with the defense contracting industry being such a huge controller of American foreign policy, I wouldn't bet on it.
Well, the Germans have shipped plenty of jobs to former Soviet-bloc countries & to the American South, which is not exactly a bastion of union sentiment.
Comments
Point taken with the Gremlin - although I do like the Levi's editions - but the Pinto was FAR better than the Vega in this regard. My friend's mother had a well-optioned 1972 Pinto Runabout that was replaced by a V-6 1977 Pinto hatchback, and my aunt had a basic 1977 Pinto sedan (no hatchback).
Their interiors were far better finished and constructed than any Vega interior.
uplanderguy: And the engine warranty in '76 and '77 on Vega was as long as Ford and some of the others give you today.
That's because GM had to offer this warranty to get anyone to even consider buying the car! The Vega had a terrible reputation by 1976, which is why GM was forced to offer this warranty.
I've always said that the Vega did as much for Toyota, Honda and Nissan than they did for themselves.
I know styling is subjective, but I can never remember seeing a single Pinto that had the interior quality of the Vega's Custom Interior option (Camaro bucket seats) and GT instrumentation and thick-rim wheel.
My friend's '74 GT hatchback was metallic dark blue, and it was a really nice car to ride in and drive. It had a 4 speed and AFAIR the non-GTs had 3 speed manuals standard.
Too bad about the rust and durability issues, because it was a nice car otherwise.
A friend of mine in the BMW CCA has a Cosworth; he converted his to sidedraft Webers; apparently it's a popular mod for that car.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I have a feeling that the typical car buyer of the time still balked at paying $6,000, or even $4500 for a Vega, no matter how well-equipped it was. Just as a reference point, my grandparents' '75 Dart Swinger was only around $5,000, as was my Mom's '75 LeMans.
I never could figure out how the LeMans and the Dart came in so close in price, though, with one being a midsize V-8 and the other a compact slant six. Both were equipped about the same otherwise...at, ac, ps, pb, am/fm radio, etc. Maybe the Dart was still a hot item, being a compact in an era when we were still reeling from the gas crisis, while the LeMans was starting to become a bit of a redheaded stepchild, as buyers flocked to the Grand Prix.
Not saying the Cosworth Vega wasn't worth it, but I think most small car buyers of the time still wanted their small cars to be cheap and basic, and it was just too far ahead of its time.
Of course, the only way to do this was to open up USA markets to Western European and Japanese capital and allow the American consumer to buy their junk; later on this was extended to the Asian capitalists. In the long run, it worked. The USSR was bankrupted in 1989 and the European masses bought into the propaganda that global capitalism could actually work : full employment, rising living standards and reforms as the normal conditions.
Things started to fall apart, both for the capitalist elites and the American masses starting in the 1970s. For the elites, the tendency of the rate of profit to fall was a great drag on profits, so, their solution was to send President Nixon to China in 1972 and open China up for big capital. China, with its hordes of low wage workers, marvelously restored the increased rate in the growth of profit. However, it led to a steady erosion in the standard of living of the American masses via continuous outsourcing of good paying jobs with benefits and replacing them with lower paying jobs with no/limited benefits. Now, even low or no benefit jobs are now scarce.
The illusion of prosperity of the global capitalist system was maintained, for the last 20 years, by the creation of a massive credit/debt bubble (inflated real estate) which served to artificially expand the limits of the market by making up the loss, and then some, of purchasing power of the American consumer and allowing USA to continue to buy the junk of the other capitalist countries.
Well, the limits of the credit/debt bubble has now gone beyond its limits, American capitalism has collapsed, and, since the other capitalist powers depended on the American consumer to buy their junk, the global capitalist system soon also collapsed.
I don't think American capitalism has collapsed, just going thru another one of its "economic corrections" just like in the 1800s, when foreign trade meant nothing...maybe I sound like a broken record, and maybe I AM a broken record, but I think we are seeing this situation as a result of simple excesses...houses and condos that were $50K two years earlier, now "appraised" at $250K (as tho that had ANY sense of reality, you knew that bubble had to pop when everything got so high no one could afford them) and, frankly, unions like the UAW who had it going well for years, paying floorsweepers and other VERY unskilled labor FAR in excess of their inherent value, and, at some point, that game of musical chairs also had to stop...the condos weren't worth it, the homes weren't worth it, and that UAW labor wasn't, and will never be, worth it...the Big 3 auto industry was a major employer at one time (one in every six jobs was Big 3 auto related), but no more...other makers, paying closer to what reality demands, have given us a BETTER (overall, with certain exceptions) auto industry at lower cost with better cars (lemko's cars as the only exception in the Milky Way galaxy and the rest of the known Universe)...
Public pensions are the next domino to go, as the fraud in those makes the real estate bubble look tame...
Capitalism will wring out the excesses and what remains will be good...it is just that the excesses will be painful for those who see their gravy train evaporate...
I watched on the news tonight of a NYC cop who retired at 44 with a pension of $101K. He worked tons of over time for 2 years before he retired to bring his salary pay way up. I also have a buddy who was a NY correctional officer, and he retired at 49 with a pension that was 80% of his pay plus medical benefits. Sheesh.
That is how cities and towns, as Wimpy would say, "gladly pay them Tuesday for a hamburger today".
I think this is what is the downfall of pensions (both public and private). Promise the world and then kick the can down the street. Now, it's Tuesday, and guess what (no surprise) Wimpy is still BROKE!!!
Here in Mass and RI, it is MANDATORY that and work being done in a public road have a paid police detail (except, the cities and towns are EXEMPT). So, when I enter a manhole, many days we need a police officer with us (min. 4 hrs at time and a half). This is done so the towns don't have to worry as much about raises.
All the more reason why I believe that accountants and not lawyers are a bigger danger to us.
No, politicians! The concept of paying low but with good benefits might not be all bad if they invested monies for down the road given the long period of present value. However, you're right, they blew all the initial cost savings on other stuff and let someone down the road worry about it. Not unlike the Social Security mess. Putting overtime into pension calculations is just stupid though since you're factoring in short term incremental wages which weren't generally subject to additional fringe benefits.
How to Make $900K an Hour While Unemployment Soars
19 Mind-Blowing Facts About the DeIndustrialization of America
There is a new miracle industy waiting in the wings that will save the day, the free traders and socalled capitalists say so, they couldn't be wrong, could they?
Let's say that we make cellphones here...while I cannot prove this, I would bet that the cost of a cellphone would skyrocket due to unionized labor rates here, plus UAW-style work restrictions (I don't work on candy bar phones, I only work on flip phones)...higher phone cost would mean that fewer people own them, which means that fewer towers would be put up, which means that our cellphone network would be as spotty as it was in the 1980s...there is no free lunch...do not assume that everything is static...if the phones cost more than the plans would cost more and fewer folks would have them...
What about quality?...did we not shoot ourselves in the foot with some of the automotive crap we made in the last 20-30 years???...why is that significant, and how come I am not "over that"???...because when Ford wants to build an new auto plant, dealing with the UAW over the last 30 years means the plant is built in Brazil, BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHO AND WHAT THEY ARE DEALING WITH, AND THE LAST 30 YEARS SHOWED THEM WHY THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE USA...it isn't just "time to get over it", many billion dollar decisions are being made because of what unreasonable American labor can do...strike, sabotage, absenteeism, poor quality workmanship, asinine restrictive work rules, etc.
Get rid of those problems, outlaw unions, outlaw strikes, and maybe manufacturing will come back here, but why should they do so now, and ESPECIALLY with the union-loving goon we now have as Pres???
They could be used to lower our budget deficit. They would definitely
lower our trade deficit. It would mean more jobs for Americans who would
be put to work by companies that could produce products at a price point
more in line with imported goods.
What would it mean?
No more $90 Bicylces made in China. No more cheap consumer goods
that clutter up our garages and attics. Sure, products would cost more,
but at least our economy would improve as more people work. I never fully
bought the free trade argument.
We have plenty of natural resources in this country including oil, natural gas,
and our ace in the hole - food. We are still the breadbasket of the world.
I would vote for any politician that would endorse a trade policy that would
for a change put the interest of the American people and the country's economic
health ahead of the interests of our trading partners and the multinational
corporations
And I never bought the tariff argument, which boils down to punishing consumers with a sneaky, back door tax to prop up companies that can't compete.
Tariffs are hugely regressive. They hurt the lower income consumer who tries to make ends meet by choosing a South Korean car over a more expensive American car. But no one talks about going after the affluent consumer who chooses a $90K Mercedes S-class over a $50K Cadillac, even though that does far more damage to GM's bottom line.
Companies that can make what I want at a price that I'm willing to pay don't need tariff protection.
Companies that can't do this don't deserve tariff protection.
It's that simple.
If it was only that simple. In reality, it's far from it. As the Bush administration found out with the steel tariffs put in place in 2002 IIRC.
LA Times
I read the article. The problem was that the increase in the steel prices caused
by the tariffs caused an increase in the cost of the products that were made
in I believe California. That was because the imported products they were competing with were from countries like Korea which were manufacturing
using the cheap imported steel overseas. If that product from Korea had the
same percent tariff as the steel those workers would not have lost their jobs.
If it's that simple, why did the EU threaten to retaliate. As long as we have companies that export and we have many, we can't blindly tariff imports w/o retaliation and it effected far more areas than just California.
I'd be curious to see a study comparing job losses caused by productivity improvements vs off shoring / cheap imports.
I've worked for many different companies in different industries and the amount of jobs that I've witnessed being eliminated due to productivity improvements have far out weighed jobs lost due to out sourcing. But my experience is limited to smaller companies that don't have international operations. I'd be curious to see how off shoring vs. productivity increases compare in regards to the greater economy.
Wrong! Sonata!
Now the Explorer is taking the top spot...for a bit, anyway!
Regards,
OW
http://www.tradereform.org/2010/10/here%E2%80%99s-proof-import-tariffs-save-and-- create-american-jobs/
Well it made a compelling argument for a tariff on sleeping bags from the perspective of Exxel Outdoors.
http://www.tradereform.org/2010/09/the-makings-of-a-trade-war-with-china/
Interesting article.
And some want to dumb us down to their standards.
Credit that to Kissinger just like the dragged out "peace with honor" debacle in Viet Nam that still ended ugly while many more lives were plain wasted. Incidentally, I believe Henry Kissinger was a New Yorker so maybe he had ties to Wall Street. Its funny how the US really built up China to compete just like we did Japan.
However, I still think some of this is the American consumers' fault. American Airlines found out they wouldn't pay out a mere $10 for more room, but they still whine and complain about cramped planes. Americans are bad at math too. They'll buy the cheapest quality and priced appliances that don't last long and end up paying more over a lifetime. We're turning into a nation of idiots and cry babies, wanting someone to be responsible for all the actions and mistakes they make because they dumbed down or went on the cheap.
As for Wall Street, it is far too motivated by short term results to consider the future. That alone puts us in a bad strategic competitive posture because short term tactics overly dominate decision making (what's the next quarter, instead of how will we be doing in 5 years). Too many there are also so motivated by greed that they'd probably sell out their country for an extra million in their pocket...for that matter, maybe even their mother, spouse or child. On Wall Street success is dominated by money and status objects like show off cars and homes on the Island. Meanwhile, US Business whines about government, but then they are the first ones in line lobbying for handouts or special tax treatment.
America needs to wake up, stop the blame game and start taking responsibility.
Why stop with China? Why not argue that opening Japan was at least as big a mistake? Before Japanese cameras & transistor radios started to appear on the U.S. market in the mid 1950s, no American would even consider buying anything of Asian origin. I'm old enough to remember when "made in Japan" was synonymous with "cheap & shabby".
That was before we learned to love Sony, Panasonic, Toyota & Honda in the 1960s & 1970s. After that, it was no big deal to buy Korean cars in the 1980s. (The early Hyundais were pretty bad, but the Koreans learned from their mistakes. Now, the latest Sonata is fully the equal of any mid-priced Japanese or American sedan.)
Japan opened the door to the U.S. markets & paved the way for other Asian countries. If not for Japan, we wouldn't even be discussing China.
France now shutting down their country over moving retirement age to 62. Rioters have 2/3 of all gas stations blocked off and country has come to a halt. Fuel trucks can't get to the stations.
Capitalist Sharpton is millionaire teaching dependency on big government
How bout that 'The rent is too damn high' party
GE is bringing 400 jobs back to America. They say Americans will buy more refrigerators if they are made in the USA. Chrysler is opening a new 8 speed tranny plant in Kokomo.
US has second largest deposits of rare earth but for now we buy it from China because it is found mixed with radioactive elements and poisons so we let the Chinese mine it instead. Another bad side of Hybrids.
Ethanol fuel is a hoax. A money losing proposition.
Hopefully we will have a new party of looters in the house and senate in 12 days.
The danger of having one source for something critical.
France now shutting down their country over moving retirement age to 62. Rioters have 2/3 of all gas stations blocked off and country has come to a halt. Fuel trucks can't get to the stations.
We wish we could retire that early. They have 6 weeks vacation/year, also.
GE is bringing 400 jobs back to America. They say Americans will buy more refrigerators if they are made in the USA. Chrysler is opening a new 8 speed tranny plant in Kokomo.
Cool. But Chrysler ought to work on compelling vehicles rather than 8 speed transmissions IMHO.
US has second largest deposits of rare earth but for now we buy it from China because it is found mixed with radioactive elements and poisons so we let the Chinese mine it instead. Another bad side of Hybrids.
No, another bad side of little environmental regulation in China. But I think they will improve quickly. We went through the same environmental problems but mostly cleaned up in the '70's. China will inevitably do the same.
Ethanol fuel is a hoax. A money losing proposition.
Totally agree. As is the "flex fuel" badge on GM vehicles. A marketing gimmick.
Hopefully we will have a new party of looters in the house and senate in 12 days.
The problem is that they are still looters.
On topic, what is an American car these days? My take is that it is a vehicle built in this country with as much USA parts as possible. So Camry is a US car. Ford Fusion is mostly not a US car. Chrysler minivans are not US cars (aren't they made in Canada?). US made Hondas and Acuras are US cars.
This is sure better to me than a foreign nameplate built in a foreign country, but does it mean absolutely nothing to you that the Corporation was founded and is headquartered, along with most all upper management and most engineering, and has been for decades, in a foreign country? For example, I think just how 'foreign' Toyota really is became apparent when their top U.S. management showed how little influence any of them really had in the recall procedure. It was all Mr. Toyoda and the Japanese management team's decisions.
The new Jeep Grand Cherokee won a comparison test in Car and Driver over
their Kia, Nissan and Toyota competitors.
I also noticed recently when riding in the front seat of my sister-in-law's
2001 Jeep Cherokee (with over 200,000 miles) how comfortable the
seats are. They actually have thick foam padding that cushions
your bottom. That's a rarity in today's cars. Most feel like your sitting
on a piece of cardboard. They are way too hard.
Perhaps this will shed some light on the protectionist elite:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By next year about 80% of the vehicles Korean automaker Hyundai sells in the United States will be built here, the CEO of the automaker's U.S. arm told CNNMoney.
Hyundai: We're more American than Detroit
Open is always better but crying about protecting GM/Ford/Chrysler past garbage is always a choice.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Why Germany Has It So Good and Why America Is Going Down the Drain
This runs contrary to my thinking. I will buy the best quality appliances I can afford. I have a Whirlpool washer and dryer that are still going strong after 13+ years. I'm hoping they'll last forever. Back in the day, appliances were built to standards accounting for the worst case scenario. That's why you still see a lot of 1940s refrigerators still in use. Today, appliances are built just to be "good enough."
The Japanese camera industry devastated the German camera industry more than anything. The German Leica camera was the ne plus ultra of cameras back in the day.
I don't believe Japanese electronics were all that great, just cheaper. The United States made a lot of excellent high-end hi-fi and stereo equipment back in the day - especially brands like McIntosh. My friend had an old stereo system consisting of a lot of McIntosh and Heathkit components along with Klipsch horns that would shame modern systems.
No wonder they really aren't around anymore. Ford even owned the brand for a couple of decades.
Best I've been able to find it Germany has a GDP of around 3.3T and spends 40B on defense. France spends more on defense than Germany (according to Wikipedia)
The GDP of the US is around 14T and spends $500-600B on defense. So we have roughly 4x the GDP and spend 10x on defense. I wonder what would happen if we could cut defense spending in 1/2. Maybe we could pay for kids to go to college along with other beneficial programs.
Yeah, I know about Leicas. My prized possession is an early 70s vintage Leica M2-R with 3 lenses. Years ago, I had an M3, but I had to sell that to pay the rent. Still miss that camera.
The Germans were slow to rebuild their optical industry after WWII, & the Japanese took advantage of this. When American photojournalists covering the Korean War came to Tokyo for R&R (this was in the early 50s), representatives of Nikon & Canon put samples in their hands. Back then, Nikon was building a clone of the Contax (Leica's chief German competitor) while Canon was more or less knocking off prewar Leica designs. (I have an '53 or '54 Canon IV-S2, which takes a Leica screw-mount lens.)
Although WWII had ended years earlier, new German cameras were still in short supply, so pros & serious amateurs jumped on the Japanese newcomers & found that they were as good as the Germans. That was the beginning of the end of German supremacy in fine cameras. By the early 60s, the Japanese were the innovators & the Germans were playing catch-up.