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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dunno why, they've run cars on Tequila before:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    But won't the worm in the bottle clog up the fuel tank ;)
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Casinos don't produce anything, they just take resources. There was a man in a Philly suburb who recently murdered a baby and its grandmother in a botched kidnapping attempt to pay off his gambling debts.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited November 2012
    Casinos don't produce anything,

    Entertainment. My wife and I thoroughly enjoy going to Vegas or the occasional gambling boat. We go a few times a year (Vegas every few years), take a few hundred bucks and when it's gone we leave. Sometimes we're not there long or like the last time I left about $1k richer;)

    If it wasn't gambling debts, that loser likely would have jacked someone for drug money or something else.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Gary, IIRC there is a runway around 10K at SAN, so it can probably handle a B747. In fact, I think Delta once flew DC-8 service into there which in some configurations requires comparable runway length. However, that airport is pretty tight, so taxiway configuration might be less than friendly. I suspect there isn't the passenger or cargo demand count to support 747's out of there. AF One will often use a nearby military base over a commercial airport because it requires ground stops that can disrupt flight operations. Plus I think it has extra fuel tanks which might mess up the length and/or weight calculations for SAN? A 747 into SAN might scare the crap out of some of the people on the ground or on I-5 though

    San Diego's runway is 9400' long, which is a little short for fully loaded heavies. The 747 is fading as the big twins are so much more energy efficient. I believe British Airways has a nonstop to London on a 777 out of SAN. Still, with only one runway, SAN is a fairly pathetic airport for a city of its size.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    One might have a point about not having casinos if, in their absence, no one gambled.

    But, we all know that isn't how the world works. A gambler is going to find a way to gamble, just like a drug addict is going to find a way to get drugs, legally or otherwise.

    At least casinos make a reasonable effort at following regulations, and they provide employment for thousands of workers, from hotel staff to floor personnel.

    My wife and kids go to Vegas every 2-3 years, primarily to see shows/comedians. Between the 4 of us, we probably gamble away less than $100 per trip.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Casinos don't produce anything, they just take resources

    I agree, I was just being sarcastic. Forgot the Emotor-con I guess.

    I was robbed outside a casino, at gun point. Not fun.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Toyota Motor Corp. is offering retirement incentives to 2,000 U.S. manufacturing workers in Kentucky, a sign the Japanese auto maker is adopting some of the same cost-saving measures its Detroit rivals have implement in recent years.

    Acceptance of the buyout could help Toyota reduce its overall manufacturing costs. Veteran Toyota workers earn around $26 an hour, plus bonuses while replacements would start at around $16 an hour, similar to the two-tier wage system that U.S. auto makers began last decade."

    Toyota Offers U.S. Workers Retirement Incentives (Wall St Journal)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should take Ford's lead and move production to Mexico (kidding). ;)
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The man who did this despicable crime wasn't your garden variety thug or drug addict - he was a senior software engineer.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Some gambling addicts are famous rich people like Michael Jordan and Bill Cosby.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    senior software engineer.

    They're not exempt from being drug addicts or thugs. Like Gagrice mentioned, there are all type of people that have gambling or other addiction problems. Take away the casino or make the drug illegal, and they'll still find a way to get their fix.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    Not sure where the lambs grew up or the yarn was processed, but I got my wife a handmade tapestry from a weaver in Florida for Christmas. So I'm in. A few times over. :shades:

    ‘Made in America Christmas’: Pledge to Spend $64 on US Gifts This Holiday (ABC)

    It's sort of funny reading about the Los Angeles port strike. The beef isn't over pay but over outsourcing clerical jobs. (WHEC)

    The clerks do important work making sure all that freight gets on the right train to Chicago or wherever.

    All that freight from overseas that is. :P
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I hope they stay on strike till next year. That will help the Made in USA products to sell better. Tough to take losing a job that pays $160k per year.

    Maybe if they offered to take a BIG cut in pay they could keep their jobs. Don't they realize there are cities in CA with 30% unemployed.

    Will that cause shortages of Japanese and Korean cars coming into our market?
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For those that would like to support a US toy manufacturer. This is a good source of reference. My wife will only buy USA made toys for her niece's and nephew's kids. She makes a quilt for each new born. She has made 6 this year.

    http://madeinusaforever.com/toys.html
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    cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Even clothes can be bought here still. Here's a site that has a whole catalog of USA made clothes:

    http://www.allseasonsuniforms.com/USA.htm#out
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    iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    Thanks for posting that site, cooter. I looked and the prices are good. I'm a big fan of 1/4 fleece pullovers. I may give them a try next purchase. I get my jeans from Diamond Gussett Jeans in Tenn. They're well made and very comfy. A few bucks more than other jeans but worth it.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I was sure someone was going to suggest giving the panhandlers American cars so they could get out to the 'burbs, but we're just going down some off-topic garden path again. Pardon the housekeeping.

    Did anyone like the Big 3 sales numbers for November?

    Got plans to buy a Chevy for Christmas?

    Anyone get lost trying to get to a Sonny's BBQ joint in their Taurus?
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looks like GM is selling more to fleet and less to real people. Losing PU Truck sales is a BAD SIGN. IS BK on the horizon? Buick and Caddy had a decent month. Chevy was down 4.3% over last Nov. If not for the Mexican SRX Caddy would be history. Buick has Enclave keeping them afloat. Not a rosy Christmas for GM.

    Ford was slightly better than GM. Chrysler must be doing something right. Maybe Fiat is injecting some decent management into the company.

    The German Luxury brands are all in record sales territory.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Looks like GM is selling more to fleet and less to real people.

    And then add to that, the industry as a whole was up 12% and their sales were up the least of the D3, well below industry average. So even with accelerating fleet sales, they are not holding market share. That's not a good sign.

    Can GM survive with half the market share they have today? I've always felt (even pre-BK) that to be "right sized", GM would be 1/3 to 1/2 what they were at that time. Looks like they are going to get there, bailout or not. At some point there will be good vehicles left and the market will support that. Or at least the fleet market. But hopefully they are still big enough to survive.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The problem with Government motors is they still think they can keep lots of UAW workers and 840k GM retirees in Hostess Twinkies for life. So Obama buys 75,000 GM vehicles for who knows who? And they still cannot unload enough to keep the jobs of the UAW members they are beholden to. Time to sell GM to China and cut our losses. When the VEBA pension runs out the retirees can join the millions of homeless. See what they have done to our society.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    Got plans to buy a Chevy for Christmas?

    I'm probably out of the market for awhile, since I blew my wad on a Ram back in September. But even if I was, I don't think GM really has anything in their lineup that would entice me.

    At some point, my uncle's going to need to replace his '03 Corolla, which has about 220-230,000 miles on it. It still runs pretty well, and when it's broken, hasn't been too horribly expensive. Catalytic converters seem to be a weak point, and it did need a water pump awhile back, but otherwise it's been mostly maintenance stuff. But, nothing lasts forever.

    When we were at the Dodge dealer getting my Ram, he sat in a Dart and liked it. I might suggest he look at a Cruze as well, when that time comes.

    I'm kinda curious about the 2014 Impala, but just have a gut feeling I'd end up talking myself into a Charger instead. Hopefully that's a long way off though, as my 2000 Park Ave only has about 88,000 miles on it. It just got a big rip in the driver's seat leather that bugs the hell out of me though, and makes the car feel "old". But, it would be a lot cheaper to just take it to an upholstery shop than it would to buy a whole new car!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Losing PU Truck sales is a BAD SIGN

    We should qualify that - the competition's trucks are newer, particularly V6 models. Dodge has the Pentastar/8 speed auto and Ford has the EcoBoost V6.

    So they're competing with the oldest design, especially V6 models.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    We should qualify that - the competition's trucks are newer, particularly V6 models. Dodge has the Pentastar/8 speed auto and Ford has the EcoBoost V6.

    So they're competing with the oldest design, especially V6 models.


    And from what I'm seeing, GM isn't really discounting their pickup trucks all that much, so that might be holding back sales. I've tried searching locally on Cars.com, and about the cheapest Silverado I could find was this stripper for $16,684. And it seems to be an anomaly, as most similarly equipped trucks started around $18,000.

    Interestingly, with Dodge at least, I think the 4.7 V-8 has become the base engine, with the 3.6 V-6 being the next step up in price, and the Hemi being the most expensive. I wonder if it's gotten to the point that Dodge should just streamline things and get rid of the 4.7? I think the Ram is the only product that uses it anymore, and now that the 3.7 V-6 cut-off is gone, they're probably losing some economy of scale by keeping the 4.7 around.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So they're competing with the oldest design, especially V6 models.

    So who's fault is that? How long before Ford passes GM in the USA? YTD Ford is up 5.4%, GM up only 3.5%. The other thing is Ford posts sales, GM deliveries. Is that the same thing?
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    We should qualify that - the competition's trucks are newer, particularly V6 models. Dodge has the Pentastar/8 speed auto and Ford has the EcoBoost V6.

    So they're competing with the oldest design, especially V6 models.


    The Ram and F150 are just nicer trucks all around from the powertrains to the interior. Heard yesterday GM has something like 138 days supply of trucks despite the rebate and will be cutting production.

    The new trucks should have been here this year. Considering a new f150 is only a year or so away, and the Ram is upgraded again for 2013 the new GM trucks better be impressive or they will have a hard time winning back lost sales.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    So who's fault is that? How long before Ford passes GM in the USA? YTD Ford is up 5.4%, GM up only 3.5%. The other thing is Ford posts sales, GM deliveries. Is that the same thing?

    Looking at history, Ford will likely screw up, just like in the 90's when it looked like Ford could overtake GM in the US.

    This Fusion/Escape recall could potentially hurt some of Ford's momentum and could be the screw up that reverses Ford's fortunes.

    Also the Malibu seems to be a dud. It was outsold by the Fusion by 5k units in November despite Ford still having limited inventory at many dealers. Heck, even the Jetta outsold the Malibu in Nov. Focus outsold the Cruze by 2k units and the Focus is up about 7k units for the year

    I drove by my local Chevy dealer last night and they had rows of Malibus vs. the local Ford dealer which only has 6 2013 Fusions in stock, vs 40 Malibus at the local chevy dealer per their respective websites.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited December 2012
    So who's fault is that? How long before Ford passes GM in the USA?

    The new Chevy/GM truck is due shortly. Kind of makes sense to cut back production of the old when the new is right around the corner.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The new Chevy/GM truck is due shortly. Kind of makes sense to cut back production of the old when the new is right around the corner.

    It also makes since to cut production when sales are down.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It makes more sense to cut back production if your dealers are buried in inventory. I do see GM is finally dumping their worthless hybrid trucks. As a disgruntled GMC Hybrid owner it is about 9 years late.

    Just looking at Edmunds inventory. Looks like So CA has about 2500 half ton Crew cab PUs on the lots. Many 2012 models still listed.

    For the same area, Ford has less than 600 F150 SuperCrews available.

    I think Ram is doing fine with 23% increase in November over last year.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    Just for kicks I went on Cars.com and did a search within a 30 mile radius of my zipcode, for 1/2 ton trucks (all body styles). Came up with:

    Ford F-150: 844
    Chevy Silverado 1500: 682
    Silverado 1500 hybrid: 4
    GMC Sierra 1500: 160
    Sierra 1500 hybrid: 1
    Dodge Ram 1500: 201

    And, just for kicks:
    Nissan Titan: 97
    Toyota Tundra: 206.

    Does seem like Chevy/GMC have an awful lot of inventory, for something that's supposed to be replaced soon.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    It makes more sense to cut back production if your dealers are buried in inventory.

    As usual is appears GM has to much inventory. According to cars.com there are 57,812 Malibus at dealerships and the Malibu sold 10,227 in November vs the Camry which has 46,569 Camry+Hybrid and 28,765 Camrys sold. Ford only has about 15k Fusions but I don't think inventory is ramped up yet. Honda has 36,817 Accords at dealers with 26,242 selling in November.

    GM has 6,161 Regals at dealers and only sold 1,101 in November. Damn near 6 months worth of inventory.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    How did you manage to rip the seat in the Park Ave? I'd be frantic! I'm waiting to see what the 2014 Impala is like as a possible replacement for my Grand Marquis. I might just get my wife a new LaCrosse and take on her current car as the beater.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It wasn't long ago the Ram was uncompetitive compared to the Silverado and F-150. I remember driving all three trucks one summer at Carlisle.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sadly, the Packard plant is synonymous with Detroit in general - a once great giant laid waste.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    How did you manage to rip the seat in the Park Ave? I'd be frantic! I'm waiting to see what the 2014 Impala is like as a possible replacement for my Grand Marquis. I might just get my wife a new LaCrosse and take on her current car as the beater.

    It seems to me the Leather or what ever material was used for GM leather seating during the 90's to mid'00 often cracked or ripped. The front leather seats in my FIL's 95 tahoe are completely ripped and ragged. A buddy of mine has an '06 GMC Sierra 2500 duramax (sweet truck) but the leather sucks. He only has about 70k on it and the leather is all cracked and ripped on the drivers seat and it looks horrible

    I remember the Park Ave my dad inherited from my grandpa having ripped leather on the drivers seat before 100k too.

    So far the leather seats in my Expedition hasn't ripped yet. It has some creases and wear marks, but I don't think it will be ripping anytime soon. Though I do have a small tear in the middle row seat from the dog. Oh well, not a big deal and I could care less.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    Well, let's just say that stiletto heels and a pair of circus dwarfs were involved, and leave it at that! At least I was able to wipe the footprints off the rear window :P

    On a serious note it wasn't anything all that exciting. It just didn't seem to age very well, and probably wasn't taken care of very well over the years. I haven't been all that religious about putting leather conditioner on it, so I'm partly to blame. But, even when I first got the car, the leather on the seat seemed a bit worn. It got a crack in it, the crack got bigger, and then turned into a rip. I was going to try just sewing it back up, but before I got to it the rip just got bigger. Also, while the car only had 56,000 miles on it when I bought it, I have a feeling the previous owner was a bit, umm, Kirstie-Allen-ish (and not like how she was on Star Trek II or Cheers!) So I think that took its toll on the car (and might explain why I've needed some suspension work, too! :surprise: )

    I'm actually a bit disappointed in it, because the leather feels a bit thin. The only reference point I really have for leather, though is my 1979 5th Ave, which feels like it has much thicker, higher-quality leather.

    I'll probably take it to an upholstery shop at some point and see if they can patch it, and just put a towel over it for the time being. :blush:
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, the driver's seat on my 1989 Cadillac Brougham only has a few creases after 24 years. The other seats are like new as nobody sits on them. I noticed that the leather in my last two Cadillacs is thicker than that of the Brougham.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited December 2012
    I use leather cleaner/conditioner on all my leather-equipped cars religiously. I notice a difference in the quality of leather in my Mercury and the DTS. The DTS' leather has a nice supple feel to it, feels thicker, and gives off a rich aroma. The leather in my Mercury might as well be vinyl.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The leather on my wife's 23 year old LS400 is still very nice condition. I doubt she has ever put anything on it. It is always garaged and only has 105k miles on it. Paint is still very good.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    Ford leather seems paper thin. Something odd about it.

    I use a leather cleaner/conditioner twice a year.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Well, let's just say that stiletto heels and a pair of circus dwarfs were involved, and leave it at that! At least I was able to wipe the footprints off the rear window :P

    ROTLMAO

    You need to be careful. A parked rocking Park Ave is likely to result in someone calling 911 to report a stroke, heart attack, seizure, or some other kind of medical emergency;)

    On a serious note it wasn't anything all that exciting. It just didn't seem to age very well, and probably wasn't taken care of very well over the years. I haven't been all that religious about putting leather conditioner on it, so I'm partly to blame.

    That pretty much describes what I've seen. When I was looking at used Suburbans a while back, many with leather, had a drivers seat that like crap by 50k miles and was partially why I bought one with cloth.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Ford leather seems paper thin. Something odd about it.

    No question, but I've had decent luck with avoiding rips from normal wear and tear on Fords. Not that I have a lot of experience, I've only had two cars with leather.

    I wonder with GM if it doesn't partially have something to due with the seat padding. Seems cars like the park ave and trucks have thick padded seats, maybe that causes the leather to be flexed more making it more likely to crease, crack, and eventually tear.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,155
    I'd think in terms of buying a seat from a recycling yard and using the cover for my own seat. I checked car-parts.com and there are leather seats with heat option. The cover is essentially clipped on with some wires involved too. The seat comes off the floor with a few bolts and it's out of the car after lots of electrical wires are unclipped. I saw seats for $150 when searching using Columbus as a location and some for $350...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    Luckily for me, MBs tend to have high quality seating. On older models, sometimes the drivers side left bolster would wear through - but usually took a good 15-20 years or maybe 200K miles. My E55 has very high quality perforated leather - now over 10 years old with very little wear showing. I am happy with the "Tex" fake leather though, looks and feels nice enough, never wears out.

    Seat padding + thin leather makes sense. Some of the worst issues I have seen are early 90s Lexus and Acura that had any sun or harsh weather exposure. Crack, tear, even the steering wheels would go.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    uckily for me, MBs tend to have high quality seating.

    Yeah, I've noticed that when riding in a MB. I can't complain about the seating material in my Expedition, I don't expect or really want it to be overly soft or luxurious. I prefer it to be able to handle kids and a big dog which it does a good job.

    After 5 years and 112k miles of abuse, it's held up well.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    It's too bad there isn't (that I know of) a domestic vinyl that both looks/feels nice and is durable. Would be perfect for haulers like yours.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Stiletto heels and female anatomy probably means Andre is drawn to the new Lexus grill too!
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've owned several leather Ford products and my opinion was they were closer to vinyl than cow skin, until I rented the latest Explorer - that is a very nice seat IMHO.
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