That's not the skill set they're talking about. They're talking about the skills of willingly working on an assembly line for peanuts without complaining, and the skill of never ever joining a union.
Yeah, it had to do with assembly work. I think the "skill" missing, according to the "successful businessman" (as some would call it) is the ability to work 70 hours a week in substandard conditions, for peanuts. The inability to gleefully race to the bottom.
The higher education system here is indeed a racket. I know a few people my age in western/central Europe - no crushing loan debt there. They have very wide ranging apprenticeship and vocational programs too. Think, there was a time when that was more common in the US, too. Before executives wanted everything for nothing, and then a tax break on top of it.
Sure, a "successful businessman" yet a miserable failure as a human being and a moral degenerate! These execs probably demand the same "skill sets" of their employees that plantation owners in the Old South once had from theirs!
The 1960 Thunderbird did have a steel sunroof, but cars so equipped are called "Golde" Thunderbirds, so it must have been installed by the same company.
The 1960 Thunderbird did have a steel sunroof, but cars so equipped are called "Golde" Thunderbirds, so it must have been installed by the same company.
Apparently so. They probably cranked open or were power-operated, unlike the 'Golde' handle on my old car, where you turned the handle and pushed the roof open manually.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Did you ever see ads for graphic design jobs? They expect one to be an expert in every design application under the sun, years of experience, and barely pay more than a newbie administrative assistant. Yet, the person doing the hiring can barely turn on his computer without calling IT Support.
Start looking at business analyst jobs. Some of the listed credentials are more than people who've been there for a generation - including "senior leadership" (tenure derived, of course - if they had to climb the ladder today with their skill set, they'd go nowhere). And I won't get started on the recruiting sector.
is the ability to work 70 hours a week in substandard conditions, for peanuts.
70 hours yes, Substandard conditions? Foxconn factories look spotless and state the art. What is wrong with working 70 hours per week? I did the last 25 years before I retired. They do get premium pay for OT. If American workers cannot hack the job, they will continue down that slippery slope. Supposedly the labor on a iPhone is only $7.
Given the propensity for corporations to lie, I can't accept Foxconn propaganda at face value. The [non-permissible content removed] dressed up their camps to appease inspectors, too.
How many weeks did you work 70 hours? I find it hard to accept that you did constantly 52 or 40 or even 20 weeks a year for 25 years. You also received big perks for your work.
I see the peanuts part was ignored, too. I wonder how much more competitive we'd be if we cut retirement benefits paid out to nose in the air oldsters, benefits that new workers today won't even be able to dream about. "Can't hack it"...insane. Can't hack creating even higher margins for the 1%, maybe. 100+ years ago, maybe, but not now. One trait of a developed just society is the abolition of Dickensian labor practices. If you want to see unions flare up everywhere, go for it. Just like in the past.
The crux was this. Overpaid suit claimed more or less there is a skills gap preventing such work, but wouldn't elaborate. Typical exec leadership, failing to put up, and being less than honest. It's all about the cheap labor, nothing wrong with it being admitted.
...and politicians, and union leaders... and individuals (Joe the Plumber, etc.). I don't really see what is unique about corporations. There are liars everywhere.
Regarding American cars. Today, even more than when this thread started in 2006(!), there is more foreign nameplate manufacturing in the US, the highest US content vehicles are from Honda and Toyota, and there is more manufacturing of US nameplates in Mexico and elsewhere. And Chrysler is Italian-owned.
The only thing more "American" about the D3 is the US executives at Ford and GM. And many of those (especially GM) were the ones who managed the company during one of the biggest management screwups of the last decade.
I'd say all makes are American... and not. It makes no difference. If you want to support the US, buy a vehicle made here with a high percent of US (not "North American") content.
I'm down in Alamogordo, NM, seeking employment at the hospital here and there's a strong German connection in this town. Apparently they started sending German men here to get trained to fly fighter jets, it's been going on for decades. When they first got here the rules said that the German women couldn't get jobs here - that's since changed.
Looks like I'm probably going to get the job I want here - pretty stoked right now. It's not over until I sign on the dotted line, of course, though. No union for RT's but IIRC boss said the nurses are unionized. Might be wrong on that, don't quote me - I'm in the "I've got too much info. swimming around in my head" stage right now and fighting a strong case of jet lag.
El Paso, TX, looks like NYC from 25,000 feet up in the sky, gentlemen. Wow - Denver, CO, of course, even more impressive. I always love staring at the lights at night and wondering what kind of hicks live in some of those remote areas where there's no streetlights - only house lights. Know what I mean?
Plenty of Jeeps and Ford Fusions here in Alamogordo, NM. Buying a new Ford Fusion here means it was put together in Mexico, but it's an American rig, though. I'm renting a '12 Nissan Altima. I like it but don't love it. Love my '08 Lancer GTS mo better. Carry on - I'll include a freshen up in a little bit if steve doesn't erase this message...I...I mean once I find out if I get the gig down here. I'd love ta get it - looks like it will happen. I've got at least 9 1/2 more years ta put in before my wife and I plan on retiring. There's this certain issue of whether SS will still be around that might tweak my estimate, though. Now I know how a certain gentlemen in his mid-50's I worked with at Boeing felt like...always talking about retiring, early. Only he wanted to retire at 55. He got his wish.
Wonder what he's up to these days...he put his white '96 Diahatsu Charade up for sale in 1999 for $6,000 to start paving the way for his retirement. Ahh....sounds so sweet.
Signing off from the great American Southwest desert, it was sunny and a warm 67 degrees on the dashboard of the CEO's Admin.Assistant's Jeep SUV this afternoon as I was getting the Alamogordo tour. Pretty cool little town...complete with Space Museum, Nuthouse (pistachios), small zoo, new theater complex, IMAX for the Space Museum. They actually shoot off missiles from the White Sands Missile base a time or two every year...boss told me that's a legit call-in if you happen to get caught up in it...oh yeah, military men with guns stop traffic and you'll stay in that same spot for...hours until they're done. Yikes. Think I'll make every attempt ta stay out of that area at that time. Whenever that might be. Sort of like an instant parade coming out of the desert whenever the itch attacks them.
New Albertson's grocery store coming in, new Carl's Jr. coming in, oh, they have my fave bookstore, Hasting's, too! Yahoo!
I'd say all makes are American... and not. It makes no difference. If you want to support the US, buy a vehicle made here with a high percent of US (not "North American") content.
Please tell me whose labels print out only U.S., as opposed to North American, content. I've yet to see one.
There are American makes that are assembled here. It seems like the pro-foreign guys don't accept that.
To expound on my earlier post about the importance of remembering Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, for the first time in my life I watched "Tora! Tora! Tora!" last evening. I was astounded at the quality of the effects, for a 1970 movie. I remember my Dad watching it on TV when I was a teen and I was not interested (duh). Great movie.
Note that the BMW X5 recall involves waiting for repair parts from Germany.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
How many weeks did you work 70 hours? I find it hard to accept that you did constantly 52 or 40 or even 20 weeks a year for 25 years. You also received big perks for your work.
I know my FIL worked 60-70+ hours/week for years as an iron worker in the steel mills. He pretty much worked all of the o/t he could for the 10 years I was around him until the mill went bankrupt. When someone asks him how many years he worked at the mill, he generally will joke that he worked the equivalent of 50 years during the 30 he worked there.
The few friends I have that work labor type jobs in the mills often work 12+ hour days, and many times it's mandatory.
And yes, the pay is likely worth it. Working an extra 20 hours a week can double your income, do it on a holiday week and you can almost triple it. It's not unusual for these guys to easily make $100k, get real ambitious and if you really want to avoid your wife and kids $150k can be made.
How many weeks did you work 70 hours? I find it hard to accept that you did constantly 52 or 40 or even 20 weeks a year for 25 years. You also received big perks for your work.
Actually it was 26 weeks per year. Three weeks working, 3 weeks off. During the work period we worked many 12-16 hour days. And most of the time out in the cold splicing cables. And I worked that schedule for 25 years until I retired.
If you want to see unions flare up everywhere, go for it. Just like in the past.
I would say they are doing a lot of screaming right now. Problem is they have always claimed they were what brought all wages up. That just does not hold water. If a UAW person is making $30 per hour while the same HS grad is working at the grocery store making $10 per hour, the Union person is inflating prices to the lower wage people. Of course they say they want everyone working at Walmart to make as much as the Union people. As soon as that happened they would be screaming they deserve more, because the prices have gone up at Wally World.
I see the peanuts part was ignored, too. I wonder how much more competitive we'd be if we cut retirement benefits paid out to nose in the air oldsters, benefits that new workers today won't even be able to dream about.
Some people would scream if you gave them Cashews. It is the young people that have made the Corporations selling cheap Chinese electronics rich. They are the ones that are going to suffer for buying foreign goods that put someone in the USA out of a job. I know lots of retired folks happily driving an old Buick with no cell phone or computer. Still watching a 30 year old Tube TV.
It's all about the cheap labor, nothing wrong with it being admitted.
That is only part of it. Where in the USA could you get 250,000 workers for a single factory? Willing to work their butts off so people in the USA can get a new iPhone. Willing to live in company housing? I also did that for 25 years. Not many lasted that long away from momma. You are whining to the wrong guy.
Corporations are the context here. That's why they are brought up. As well, corporations telling lies is somewhat more egregious, as even though corporations are people too (my friend), they are really never held accountable for their actions.
I guess I would look at employing Americans (actual workers, not execs) as the most important factor if one is gung ho about buying American. The profits part only matters if the company is making a profit.
All makes are American? So a Geely or a Rolls or a Lada is American? :confuse:
That makes sense. I doubt the sweatshops get 3 on 3 off. Certainly your job was tough and not for everyone, and you likely made a much above average wage for it. As you deserved.
I don't look at all that for wages, but benefits. If not for the actions some starting to organize a little over a century ago, most benefits today wouldn't exist. Ones that you reaped during your working career, and in retirement too. I also reap those benefits, and I can admit where they were born.
And some, born on third base but act like they hit a home run, think they are entitled to gold covered macadamias. To those retired folks who remember the bad old days, a good enough TV and smooth car is luxury compared to their youth. Technology is relative. Is it really the consumer, or the marketing, who determines what is bought? Along with unfair "free trade" practices, of course.
A mass of workers who might have it better in a sweatshop than on the farm is not a skill. The willingness to be exploited for that is not a skill. They aren't working so someone can get a phone, they are working to eat. The overpaid suit whined about a lack of skill in the US, but would not elaborate. It's either a lie or hypocrisy, take your pick.
You should enjoy NM. Las Cruces is close as is Ruidoso. I love it up in the high country of NM. With all you traveling around you should have a good idea where you want to retire. Do you have to drive to El Paso for service on the Mitsu?
And some, born on third base but act like they hit a home run, think they are entitled to gold covered macadamias.
I rarely envy what others have. I was brought to believe if I wanted something I had to work for it. Many things I worked hard for and they mean nothing to me now. I would not want the money or headaches of a Bill Gates. Not to mention all the socializing they are expected to do.
The overpaid suit whined about a lack of skill in the US, but would not elaborate.
I think it has been elaborated on when Jobs met with Obama. A factory like Foxconn will also have about 15,000 engineers. I doubt they work for peanuts. And someone in China must be making enough to be buying cars. Probably not many coming from the USA.
Keep in mind that China has free HC for everyone. If you live in a camp with all your meals and still get paid $1.70 per hour. You are probably making out better than someone here making $10 per hour. I just read one of the factories pay $350 per month. Do you get that much when you enlist in the military here? And China does have retirement.
China’s retirees may not have the world’s richest pensions, but they have long enjoyed some of its earliest.
By Chinese law, men can retire at 60; women in government and state-owned companies can leave at 55; and women in the private sector can start collecting pensions at 50.
Note that the BMW X5 recall involves waiting for repair parts from Germany.
Well, seeing as how the parts affected are engine-related, and BMW doesn't make engines in the US (because an engine assembly plant usually requires a higher volume of production of units to be profitable as compared to an auto assembly line), its no surprise that, in cases such as this, parts come from other countries.
But, it's not always "no parts are locally available", as I explained to you in an earlier posting.
Whether one accepts it or not, the days of an automobile being made solely in one country are all but gone, and they aren't coming back. Waiting on parts being shipped in from another country, especially with the capability of overbite delivery world-wide, is only going to become more common, not less.
It will be interesting to see what the outcome is in the Ford Escape fire issues recall, as it relates to parts sourcing and availability.
The suicide rate at Foxconn during the suicide spate remained lower than that of the general Chinese population[8] as well as that of the population of the United States
Which must mean Americans are way over paid and underworked. Seems the better the conditions the higher the suicide rates. Check out the best educated country in the World, Finland.
That is only part of it. Where in the USA could you get 250,000 workers for a single factory? Willing to work their butts off so people in the USA can get a new iPhone.
It likely could never happen. But if it were too, the first thing I'd do is open a liquor store on one corner, a bar at the other, then a strip club across from that;) The reality is that same factory there would be employed with a 10th of the employees due to far more automation as Foxconn is already working on in China.
Seriously, it probably would require a local worker pool of more than a million to maintain 250,000 jobs in that type of environment. Between the dead beats who'd walk off the job and the habitual call offs.
I was talking to my dad the other day about similar issues. His company recently opened a new grocery store in a low income area near Chicago. The starting pay for cashiers is above minimum wage in the $9/hr range IIRC and even with our current economic climate, they have a heck of a time keeping enough staff. For cashiers, they were only able to keep about 50% that went through training, most quit the first day. And it's not like it's a hard or abusive place to work, and they are represented by the retail clerks union. Most can't pass a simple math test in order to make change.
I'll be curious to see how many Apple hires to build Macs here. Granted they all won't be made here.
Waiting on parts being shipped in from another country, especially with the capability of overbite delivery world-wide, is only going to become more common, not less.
Very true. The NAV in my Made in USA 2007 Sequoia died in 2009. It took 3 months for Toyota to get one from India where they were made. No Radio or NAV during that time.
Most can't pass a simple math test in order to make change.
That is the biggest complaint of companies hiring. Getting people with basic skills like reading and math. Can't blame that on Corps. That is a direct result of lousy government run schools. Bet the Chinese in Foxconn are better educated.
Very true. The NAV in my Made in USA 2007 Sequoia died in 2009. It took 3 months for Toyota to get one from India where they were made. No Radio or NAV during that time.
My guess--and it's only that--is that this has traditionally been more the case for import manufacturers, even those who assemble here. Going forward, with competition being what it is, I agree that it'll only increase most likely--sadly to me.
Although, I think it's encouraging that the Sonic is built in the U.S. when its predecessor was built in Korea. It's the only subcompact built in the U.S.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
That is the biggest complaint of companies hiring. Getting people with basic skills like reading and math. Can't blame that on Corps. That is a direct result of lousy government run schools. Bet the Chinese in Foxconn are better educated.
Absolutely, I think a lot of it has to do with personal responsibility. I don't believe you can force someone to learn. They have to want to and family or some type of roll model is important to facilitate it.
Corporations are certainly not fault free, but neither are individuals. You'll understand where I'm coming from if you try to employ a local self employed person to do work. It's often a major PITA, they'll give a song and dance how they need the money and work, but when it comes time to do the job, they don't show up when they say, or often don't call back.
I needed an awning replaced on our camper due to storm damage. I had local guy give me a business card and he told me how he was opening his own rv/boat repair business because he no longer wanted to work for someone else etc and so he could better serve customers and some other BS.
Well when I called him to perform the repair, he told me he'd call me back. Two days later I had to call him again and he told me he'd come buy look at it and give me an estimate. Well he never showed or called. I ended up calling a large RV dealer, and two days later it was repaired.
Same thing with household items. It's been my experience, the smaller the outfit, the more likely I'll end up pissed off. I like to give the "little guy" a chance, but JC, when they don't call back or do what they say, I have little patience for that type of BS.
You are correct. It involves a bolt in the idler pulley, but the potential problem is steering.
That makes sense if you have a conventional hydraulic steering. With most vehicles if you lose your idler pulley, you won't be driving far and certainly wouldn't have power steering.
To expound on my earlier post about the importance of remembering Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7,
Since you bring this topic up now I'm curious. Have you ever been to Pearl Harbor? USS Arizona memorial? USS Missouri?
FYI, I see all three daily. I also watched the filming of Tora, Tora, Tora. Watching those zeros flying all day over Pearl Harbor made for interesting conversation.
Back to buying American cars. So buying a Toyota could have more US content than a Chevy built in Mexico? If so wouldn't it work out better to support Toyota although they have been known to use slave labor in Japan? What a mess.
What Chevy is made in Mexico now? Oh, I do believe the Suburban is. Are there Toyotas sold here that are built in Japan? I don't know the answer.
My '11 Chev was built in Kansas City, and the last three daily drivers I've used for the past 16 years were built in Lordstown, OH, forty miles down the road from me. I entertained the thought of an HHR when I bought my Cobalt, but 'made in Mexico' was the sole reason I didn't. Why reward them for building in Mexico? I couldn't see why they wouldn't build the HHR on a line next to the Cobalt at Lordstown, since they shared the same base.
I've never been to the Arizona Memorial but would like to. I would also love to see Normandy. Getting the rest of my family to buy into either is another story though.
I thought I had posted it here this a.m., but it was over on the "GM News.." forum. The "Detroit Three" employ nearly three times the workers in the U.S. as the "Japanese Three". I have a link there to the source.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Please tell me whose labels print out only U.S., as opposed to North American, content. I've yet to see one.
Yes, but your Canadian or Mexican assembled vehicle with high NA content is not as good as your US assembled vehicle with high NA content. That doesn't take too much calculation to realize.
There are American makes that are assembled here. It seems like the pro-foreign guys don't accept that.
I guess I would look at employing Americans (actual workers, not execs) as the most important factor if one is gung ho about buying American.
That's funny, because when we argue that buying Honda or Toyota supports US jobs, too, the pro-D3 argue "but the management is not from this country"!
All makes are American? So a Geely or a Rolls or a Lada is American?
I should have been clearer - "For the vehicles current mass marketed in the US, pretty much all of them are American...and not. There is really not much difference."
I guess all I'm asking is, where would one substantiate U.S. content versus NA content? I've never seen a single content label on a car that would point that out.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The suicide rate at Foxconn during the suicide spate remained lower than that of the general Chinese population[8] as well as that of the population of the United States
Which must mean Americans are way over paid and underworked.
I guess all I'm asking is, where would one substantiate U.S. content versus NA content? I've never seen a single content label on a car that would point that out.
I've not seen one either, not that I've looked very hard.
I guess all I'm asking is, where would one substantiate U.S. content versus NA content? I've never seen a single content label on a car that would point that out.
Agreed - wasn't it the illustrious unions that made the label "NA content" rather than "US content"?
It seems that buying US assembled + high NA content would be the best option.
Of course you don't, you lived like a hermit for a few decades and married lucky. Most people don't have those desires or abilities. Kudos to you for living below your means, but how many of those years were enjoyable? Just to sock it away for careless "heirs"...
Nothing was elaborated upon. The term "skill" was mentioned, but nothing more would be given. The only skill desired by the 21st century belle epoque CEO is the willingness to race to the bottom.
I thought socialized healthcare was some kind of evil commie pinko plot? Funny how virtually all of our competitors have it. Looks like China mandates employer retirement contributions, too. There'd be a war if that was done here. It seems that some of those who espouse capitalism and hard work also want to emulate the new pseudo-red power. Can't have it both ways, sorry. I wonder what those pensions pay out.
Comments
The higher education system here is indeed a racket. I know a few people my age in western/central Europe - no crushing loan debt there. They have very wide ranging apprenticeship and vocational programs too. Think, there was a time when that was more common in the US, too. Before executives wanted everything for nothing, and then a tax break on top of it.
Apparently so. They probably cranked open or were power-operated, unlike the 'Golde' handle on my old car, where you turned the handle and pushed the roof open manually.
70 hours yes, Substandard conditions? Foxconn factories look spotless and state the art. What is wrong with working 70 hours per week? I did the last 25 years before I retired. They do get premium pay for OT. If American workers cannot hack the job, they will continue down that slippery slope. Supposedly the labor on a iPhone is only $7.
How many weeks did you work 70 hours? I find it hard to accept that you did constantly 52 or 40 or even 20 weeks a year for 25 years. You also received big perks for your work.
I see the peanuts part was ignored, too. I wonder how much more competitive we'd be if we cut retirement benefits paid out to nose in the air oldsters, benefits that new workers today won't even be able to dream about. "Can't hack it"...insane. Can't hack creating even higher margins for the 1%, maybe. 100+ years ago, maybe, but not now. One trait of a developed just society is the abolition of Dickensian labor practices. If you want to see unions flare up everywhere, go for it. Just like in the past.
The crux was this. Overpaid suit claimed more or less there is a skills gap preventing such work, but wouldn't elaborate. Typical exec leadership, failing to put up, and being less than honest. It's all about the cheap labor, nothing wrong with it being admitted.
...and politicians, and union leaders... and individuals (Joe the Plumber, etc.). I don't really see what is unique about corporations. There are liars everywhere.
Regarding American cars. Today, even more than when this thread started in 2006(!), there is more foreign nameplate manufacturing in the US, the highest US content vehicles are from Honda and Toyota, and there is more manufacturing of US nameplates in Mexico and elsewhere. And Chrysler is Italian-owned.
The only thing more "American" about the D3 is the US executives at Ford and GM. And many of those (especially GM) were the ones who managed the company during one of the biggest management screwups of the last decade.
I'd say all makes are American... and not. It makes no difference. If you want to support the US, buy a vehicle made here with a high percent of US (not "North American") content.
Looks like I'm probably going to get the job I want here - pretty stoked right now. It's not over until I sign on the dotted line, of course, though. No union for RT's but IIRC boss said the nurses are unionized. Might be wrong on that, don't quote me - I'm in the "I've got too much info. swimming around in my head" stage right now and fighting a strong case of jet lag.
El Paso, TX, looks like NYC from 25,000 feet up in the sky, gentlemen. Wow - Denver, CO, of course, even more impressive. I always love staring at the lights at night and wondering what kind of hicks live in some of those remote areas where there's no streetlights - only house lights. Know what I mean?
Plenty of Jeeps and Ford Fusions here in Alamogordo, NM. Buying a new Ford Fusion here means it was put together in Mexico, but it's an American rig, though. I'm renting a '12 Nissan Altima. I like it but don't love it. Love my '08 Lancer GTS mo better. Carry on - I'll include a freshen up in a little bit if steve doesn't erase this message...I...I mean once I find out if I get the gig down here. I'd love ta get it - looks like it will happen. I've got at least 9 1/2 more years ta put in before my wife and I plan on retiring. There's this certain issue of whether SS will still be around that might tweak my estimate, though. Now I know how a certain gentlemen in his mid-50's I worked with at Boeing felt like...always talking about retiring, early. Only he wanted to retire at 55. He got his wish.
Wonder what he's up to these days...he put his white '96 Diahatsu Charade up for sale in 1999 for $6,000 to start paving the way for his retirement. Ahh....sounds so sweet.
Signing off from the great American Southwest desert, it was sunny and a warm 67 degrees on the dashboard of the CEO's Admin.Assistant's Jeep SUV this afternoon as I was getting the Alamogordo tour. Pretty cool little town...complete with Space Museum, Nuthouse (pistachios), small zoo, new theater complex, IMAX for the Space Museum. They actually shoot off missiles from the White Sands Missile base a time or two every year...boss told me that's a legit call-in if you happen to get caught up in it...oh yeah, military men with guns stop traffic and you'll stay in that same spot for...hours until they're done. Yikes. Think I'll make every attempt ta stay out of that area at that time. Whenever that might be. Sort of like an instant parade coming out of the desert whenever the itch attacks them.
New Albertson's grocery store coming in, new Carl's Jr. coming in, oh, they have my fave bookstore, Hasting's, too! Yahoo!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Please tell me whose labels print out only U.S., as opposed to North American, content. I've yet to see one.
There are American makes that are assembled here. It seems like the pro-foreign guys don't accept that.
To expound on my earlier post about the importance of remembering Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, for the first time in my life I watched "Tora! Tora! Tora!" last evening. I was astounded at the quality of the effects, for a 1970 movie. I remember my Dad watching it on TV when I was a teen and I was not interested (duh). Great movie.
Note that the BMW X5 recall involves waiting for repair parts from Germany.
I know my FIL worked 60-70+ hours/week for years as an iron worker in the steel mills. He pretty much worked all of the o/t he could for the 10 years I was around him until the mill went bankrupt. When someone asks him how many years he worked at the mill, he generally will joke that he worked the equivalent of 50 years during the 30 he worked there.
The few friends I have that work labor type jobs in the mills often work 12+ hour days, and many times it's mandatory.
And yes, the pay is likely worth it. Working an extra 20 hours a week can double your income, do it on a holiday week and you can almost triple it. It's not unusual for these guys to easily make $100k, get real ambitious and if you really want to avoid your wife and kids $150k can be made.
Actually it was 26 weeks per year. Three weeks working, 3 weeks off. During the work period we worked many 12-16 hour days. And most of the time out in the cold splicing cables. And I worked that schedule for 25 years until I retired.
If you want to see unions flare up everywhere, go for it. Just like in the past.
I would say they are doing a lot of screaming right now. Problem is they have always claimed they were what brought all wages up. That just does not hold water. If a UAW person is making $30 per hour while the same HS grad is working at the grocery store making $10 per hour, the Union person is inflating prices to the lower wage people. Of course they say they want everyone working at Walmart to make as much as the Union people. As soon as that happened they would be screaming they deserve more, because the prices have gone up at Wally World.
I see the peanuts part was ignored, too. I wonder how much more competitive we'd be if we cut retirement benefits paid out to nose in the air oldsters, benefits that new workers today won't even be able to dream about.
Some people would scream if you gave them Cashews. It is the young people that have made the Corporations selling cheap Chinese electronics rich. They are the ones that are going to suffer for buying foreign goods that put someone in the USA out of a job. I know lots of retired folks happily driving an old Buick with no cell phone or computer. Still watching a 30 year old Tube TV.
It's all about the cheap labor, nothing wrong with it being admitted.
That is only part of it. Where in the USA could you get 250,000 workers for a single factory? Willing to work their butts off so people in the USA can get a new iPhone. Willing to live in company housing? I also did that for 25 years. Not many lasted that long away from momma. You are whining to the wrong guy.
I guess I would look at employing Americans (actual workers, not execs) as the most important factor if one is gung ho about buying American. The profits part only matters if the company is making a profit.
All makes are American? So a Geely or a Rolls or a Lada is American? :confuse:
Someone who got 6K out of a Charade is even luckier for that than to be receiving a Boeing pension
I don't look at all that for wages, but benefits. If not for the actions some starting to organize a little over a century ago, most benefits today wouldn't exist. Ones that you reaped during your working career, and in retirement too. I also reap those benefits, and I can admit where they were born.
And some, born on third base but act like they hit a home run, think they are entitled to gold covered macadamias. To those retired folks who remember the bad old days, a good enough TV and smooth car is luxury compared to their youth. Technology is relative. Is it really the consumer, or the marketing, who determines what is bought? Along with unfair "free trade" practices, of course.
A mass of workers who might have it better in a sweatshop than on the farm is not a skill. The willingness to be exploited for that is not a skill. They aren't working so someone can get a phone, they are working to eat. The overpaid suit whined about a lack of skill in the US, but would not elaborate. It's either a lie or hypocrisy, take your pick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Must be due to high pay and excellent working conditions...
I rarely envy what others have. I was brought to believe if I wanted something I had to work for it. Many things I worked hard for and they mean nothing to me now. I would not want the money or headaches of a Bill Gates. Not to mention all the socializing they are expected to do.
The overpaid suit whined about a lack of skill in the US, but would not elaborate.
I think it has been elaborated on when Jobs met with Obama. A factory like Foxconn will also have about 15,000 engineers. I doubt they work for peanuts. And someone in China must be making enough to be buying cars. Probably not many coming from the USA.
Keep in mind that China has free HC for everyone. If you live in a camp with all your meals and still get paid $1.70 per hour. You are probably making out better than someone here making $10 per hour. I just read one of the factories pay $350 per month. Do you get that much when you enlist in the military here? And China does have retirement.
China’s retirees may not have the world’s richest pensions, but they have long enjoyed some of its earliest.
By Chinese law, men can retire at 60; women in government and state-owned companies can leave at 55; and women in the private sector can start collecting pensions at 50.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-06/retirement-promises-prove-iffy-even-und- er-chinese-communist-rule.html
Well, seeing as how the parts affected are engine-related, and BMW doesn't make engines in the US (because an engine assembly plant usually requires a higher volume of production of units to be profitable as compared to an auto assembly line), its no surprise that, in cases such as this, parts come from other countries.
But, it's not always "no parts are locally available", as I explained to you in an earlier posting.
Whether one accepts it or not, the days of an automobile being made solely in one country are all but gone, and they aren't coming back. Waiting on parts being shipped in from another country, especially with the capability of overbite delivery world-wide, is only going to become more common, not less.
It will be interesting to see what the outcome is in the Ford Escape fire issues recall, as it relates to parts sourcing and availability.
From your wiki link:
The suicide rate at Foxconn during the suicide spate remained lower than that of the general Chinese population[8] as well as that of the population of the United States
Which must mean Americans are way over paid and underworked. Seems the better the conditions the higher the suicide rates. Check out the best educated country in the World, Finland.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html
It likely could never happen. But if it were too, the first thing I'd do is open a liquor store on one corner, a bar at the other, then a strip club across from that;) The reality is that same factory there would be employed with a 10th of the employees due to far more automation as Foxconn is already working on in China.
Seriously, it probably would require a local worker pool of more than a million to maintain 250,000 jobs in that type of environment. Between the dead beats who'd walk off the job and the habitual call offs.
I was talking to my dad the other day about similar issues. His company recently opened a new grocery store in a low income area near Chicago. The starting pay for cashiers is above minimum wage in the $9/hr range IIRC and even with our current economic climate, they have a heck of a time keeping enough staff. For cashiers, they were only able to keep about 50% that went through training, most quit the first day. And it's not like it's a hard or abusive place to work, and they are represented by the retail clerks union. Most can't pass a simple math test in order to make change.
I'll be curious to see how many Apple hires to build Macs here. Granted they all won't be made here.
Very true. The NAV in my Made in USA 2007 Sequoia died in 2009. It took 3 months for Toyota to get one from India where they were made. No Radio or NAV during that time.
That is the biggest complaint of companies hiring. Getting people with basic skills like reading and math. Can't blame that on Corps. That is a direct result of lousy government run schools. Bet the Chinese in Foxconn are better educated.
I thought the problem was steering. I'll have to go back and look at the article again.
My guess--and it's only that--is that this has traditionally been more the case for import manufacturers, even those who assemble here. Going forward, with competition being what it is, I agree that it'll only increase most likely--sadly to me.
Although, I think it's encouraging that the Sonic is built in the U.S. when its predecessor was built in Korea. It's the only subcompact built in the U.S.
Absolutely, I think a lot of it has to do with personal responsibility. I don't believe you can force someone to learn. They have to want to and family or some type of roll model is important to facilitate it.
Corporations are certainly not fault free, but neither are individuals. You'll understand where I'm coming from if you try to employ a local self employed person to do work. It's often a major PITA, they'll give a song and dance how they need the money and work, but when it comes time to do the job, they don't show up when they say, or often don't call back.
I needed an awning replaced on our camper due to storm damage. I had local guy give me a business card and he told me how he was opening his own rv/boat repair business because he no longer wanted to work for someone else etc and so he could better serve customers and some other BS.
Well when I called him to perform the repair, he told me he'd call me back. Two days later I had to call him again and he told me he'd come buy look at it and give me an estimate. Well he never showed or called. I ended up calling a large RV dealer, and two days later it was repaired.
Same thing with household items. It's been my experience, the smaller the outfit, the more likely I'll end up pissed off. I like to give the "little guy" a chance, but JC, when they don't call back or do what they say, I have little patience for that type of BS.
I read something about an idler pulley.
That makes sense if you have a conventional hydraulic steering. With most vehicles if you lose your idler pulley, you won't be driving far and certainly wouldn't have power steering.
Since you bring this topic up now I'm curious. Have you ever been to Pearl Harbor? USS Arizona memorial? USS Missouri?
FYI, I see all three daily. I also watched the filming of Tora, Tora, Tora. Watching those zeros flying all day over Pearl Harbor made for interesting conversation.
Back to buying American cars. So buying a Toyota could have more US content than a Chevy built in Mexico? If so wouldn't it work out better to support Toyota although they have been known to use slave labor in Japan? What a mess.
My '11 Chev was built in Kansas City, and the last three daily drivers I've used for the past 16 years were built in Lordstown, OH, forty miles down the road from me. I entertained the thought of an HHR when I bought my Cobalt, but 'made in Mexico' was the sole reason I didn't. Why reward them for building in Mexico? I couldn't see why they wouldn't build the HHR on a line next to the Cobalt at Lordstown, since they shared the same base.
I've never been to the Arizona Memorial but would like to. I would also love to see Normandy. Getting the rest of my family to buy into either is another story though.
I thought I had posted it here this a.m., but it was over on the "GM News.." forum. The "Detroit Three" employ nearly three times the workers in the U.S. as the "Japanese Three". I have a link there to the source.
Yes, but your Canadian or Mexican assembled vehicle with high NA content is not as good as your US assembled vehicle with high NA content. That doesn't take too much calculation to realize.
There are American makes that are assembled here. It seems like the pro-foreign guys don't accept that.
I think we all realize this, too.
That's funny, because when we argue that buying Honda or Toyota supports US jobs, too, the pro-D3 argue "but the management is not from this country"!
All makes are American? So a Geely or a Rolls or a Lada is American?
I should have been clearer - "For the vehicles current mass marketed in the US, pretty much all of them are American...and not. There is really not much difference."
You're using your own definition for "exploited".
Which must mean Americans are way over paid and underworked.
I think we're being exploited!
I've not seen one either, not that I've looked very hard.
Agreed - wasn't it the illustrious unions that made the label "NA content" rather than "US content"?
It seems that buying US assembled + high NA content would be the best option.
Certainly overpaid middle aged management isn't being exploited here.
Nothing was elaborated upon. The term "skill" was mentioned, but nothing more would be given. The only skill desired by the 21st century belle epoque CEO is the willingness to race to the bottom.
I thought socialized healthcare was some kind of evil commie pinko plot? Funny how virtually all of our competitors have it. Looks like China mandates employer retirement contributions, too. There'd be a war if that was done here. It seems that some of those who espouse capitalism and hard work also want to emulate the new pseudo-red power. Can't have it both ways, sorry. I wonder what those pensions pay out.
Looks great. Send your kids there
Finns also enjoy a usually better standard of living, too.
It's called Social Security.