Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    It seems that buying US assembled + high NA content would be the best option.

    Add to that managed and headquartered in U.S., and that's my formula.

    I won't buy a car I don't like, but I think it's sensible to support what most helps the U.S. (if you are American). But hey, that's just me and I know I'm in the minority.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    What Chevy is made in Mexico now? Oh, I do believe the Suburban is. Are there Toyotas sold here that are built in Japan? I don't know the answer.

    The Chevrolet Captiva is built in Mexico. Although its only sold to fleets, it is a Chevrolet.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    Once again, it appears BMW has been a bit slow to respond to complaints and problems...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/bmw-x5-recall-2012-steering-problem_n_2- - 250379.html

    From the article...

    The recall affects X5 xDrive 35d models with diesel engines from the 2009 through 2012 model years.

    The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says the bolt holding a belt pulley can loosen and break. If that happens the SUVs can lose power-assisted steering, increasing the risk of a crash. If the bolt breaks, the SUVs still have manual steering, but it takes far more effort to turn the wheel, especially at low speeds.


    So far no crashes or injuries have been reported from the problem in the U.S. and Canada. A BMW U.S. spokesman said he did not know if there were any crashes in other parts of the world.

    BMW is recalling 29,800 X5s in the U.S. and another 5,500 in Canada, according to documents posted by U.S. and Canadian safety agencies. The rest of the vehicles are spread across the globe.

    The trouble was discovered last year in Canada, where BMW has received 85 reports from dealers or warranty claims about the problem.

    BMW dealers will replace the bolt and tighten it to the proper specifications. They'll also add a coating that keeps the bolts from coming lose. U.S. owners will be notified about the recall in January.


    Shades of defective battery cables in a separate BMW recall several months ago.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    And how many actually pay? Is it a deductible "business cost" then claimed as a benefit? As we race towards the bottom at the behest of cookie cutter managers and execs who are labor cost-cutting one trick ponies, and globalists who could never ascend to their unearned heights if they had to start over today, everything isn't exactly above the table.

    But nope, nobody is being exploited.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    And how many actually pay? Is it a deductible "business cost" then claimed as a benefit?

    Businesses have to pay thier portion of employee social security, the self employed have to pay double towards their social security.

    All employers must pay social security of 6.2% (4.2% currently just like employees do) plus they have to pay 1.45% towards medicare, plus federal and state unemployment taxes and workmens comp. etc.

    I believe it is deductible, as it is a business expense which certainly affects profitability. But just like individual tax payers, if a company doesn't have federal income tax liability, they still have payroll taxes that must be paid.

    On a positive note. I read an interesting article on GE in this months issue of The Atlantic. GE is now building appliances at their Appliance Park. GE expects to have 75% of their appliance division revenue from US assembled product by 2014.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I won't buy a car I don't like, but I think it's sensible to support what most helps the U.S. (if you are American). But hey, that's just me and I know I'm in the minority.

    That is me. I shop on the Made in USA websites. I would buy a D3 SUV with a diesel engine if it was offered. Why only the Germans are offering them is beyond me. They make the most sense of any vehicles on the road. GM did such a horrible job of engineering their diesel engines that it tainted the Genre for decades. Maybe GM screwed over their engineers so badly in the Bankruptcy they don't have any capable of building a compliant diesel engine. I refuse to buy second choice again. Too bad US, Korean and Japanese companies are incapable of building a full size SUV that gets 30+ MPG on the highway.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2012
    But nope, nobody is being exploited.

    Everyone can be exploited, everyone is capable of being an exploiter. The poor exploiting the tax payers to the tune of $168 per day is an example.

    ‘Welfare Spending Equates to $168 Per Day for Every Household in Poverty’

    Senate Budget Committee, welfare spending per day per household in poverty is $168, which is higher than the $137 median income per day. When broken down per hour, welfare spending per hour per household in poverty is $30.60, which is higher than the $25.03 median income per hour.

    I guess the government wants everyone to live at the level of the UAW workers. So all those folks on welfare can afford Chinese made iPhones and iPads. At the tax payers expense.

    image
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,372
    When I see no sunroof, I think "rental spec". Deal breaker for me, even the lowline German models have roof.

    I'd pay extra NOT to have a hole in the roof- at least on my track toys. I never use them; I doubt my wife and I opened the panoramic roof on her X3 more than a dozen times in the 7 years she drove it.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,372
    edited December 2012
    I drove my MS3 on Friday, hoping that at least one or two 'murrican pickup truck drivin' UAW members would flip me off, but no joy... :(
    Note that I always drive my Wrangler on June 6th, one of my BMWs on June 22, and my Speed Triple on October 31st... ;)

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I used to co-drive in a friends late 80's toyota mr2 and I had to have the sunroof open to have enough head room with a helmet on in scca events. It probably wasn't very safe as you could see the top of my helmet sticking out through the roof.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I won't buy a car I don't like, but I think it's sensible to support what most helps the U.S. (if you are American). But hey, that's just me and I know I'm in the minority.

    I can understand and respect your perspective even though it's not the same as mine.

    My view is that I want the US to be the best -- and that means NOT supporting poor performance or poor companies. That's what got eastern Europe old beat up factories, deadbeat workers, and cars like the Lada and Yugo and Skoda (I might have these names a bit wrong but you get my point). I think bailing out businesses that have essentially failed to produce enough compelling product for the market, and them being able to make and sell those products at a profit, is a long term losing strategy, even though it might be appealing in the short run. The long view is to compete with the rest of the world with efficiency, innovation, and excellent products. The U.S. can do that, but not if we are too busy whining about everybody else wanting to get a bigger piece of the economic pie.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And how many actually pay? Is it a deductible "business cost" then claimed as a benefit? As we race towards the bottom at the behest of cookie cutter managers and execs who are labor cost-cutting one trick ponies, and globalists who could never ascend to their unearned heights if they had to start over today, everything isn't exactly above the table.

    In any company whose workers are contributing to social security, the employer matches that amount. If certain things are deductible "business costs", then take that up with your congressman. In any event, deductions typically reduce taxable income, meaning it's a business cost to contribute to retirements. I don't see that as an issue, since it IS a business cost.

    "globalists who could never ascend to their undearned heights if they had to start over today..." - much is cited, but no details are provided.

    But nope, nobody is being exploited

    Well, I wonder why the suicide rate in China is lower than the U.S.? Are we being exploited? How about Europe? I could easily make a case that it is the US most exploited over many. It depends upon the definition. Just like what is an American car.

    Pretending things are black and white isn't going to make it that way.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    Again though busiris, you, I, and no one else on this board can buy one.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Again though busiris, you, I, and no one else on this board can buy one.

    I had thought about making a joking response like that, but decided it was too ridiculous to do that. :surprise:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    Well, we're talking about how best to spend our car-buying dollar, so I figured mentioning a car that no one on this board could buy didn't make a whole lot of sense.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    No one replied yet.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Well, we're talking about how best to spend our car-buying dollar, so I figured mentioning a car that no one on this board could buy didn't make a whole lot of sense.

    That is the sad part about our third World Country. There are World Class vehicles that cannot be sold in the USA, because of silly regulations. Wouldn't you like to have a Chevy 7 passenger 4X4 that gets 40 MPG on the highway? GM sells them in Europe. Not to a bunch of losers like US that bailed them out. Americans are losing their desire to buy American when we get screwed over by our government and big corporations like GM.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    Toyota and Hyunkia are huge corporations also. As has been reported here many times, Hyunkia has gotten large amounts of financial aid from their government. Does that make them preferable as a corporation to those set up here? As Larry David would say, "I....I....I don't get it."
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    All Lexus except the top selling RX350 are 100% made in Japan.
    Yaris and Scion are all made in Japan. The Prius, Highlander, 4Runner and FJ Cruiser are made in Japan.
    The rest are a mixture of US, CN and Japan parts and asssembly, with the Matrix being 95% made in CN.
    Looks like a lot of shifting for 2013 models.
    Prius is their best selling vehicle 100% Japanese made.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    Although tlong thinks that the Captiva not being available for purchase is a 'joking response', the vehicle is not even on Chevrolet's website. No joke.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2012
    As Larry David would say, "I....I....I don't get it."

    I hope that was not in reference to foreign made cars. As he was an early adopter of the Prius.

    I know Toyota has gotten injections via tax incentives in Japan to buy their cars. The big difference is here the money goes into the pockets of upper management and UAW pension funds. Tax credits help the people to buy the over priced cars sold in Japan. If that $50 billion, we will never see again given to GM/UAW/VEBA, was put on the hood of the D3 vehicles, it would have helped all of US, not just a select few.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Captiva is on the market in the UK. With two different diesel engine options. The smaller engine will get you 44 MPG US on the highway and combined 38 MPG. What 7 passenger SUV sold in the USA can match that?

    That is the thanks we get for bailing their nasty butts out of bankruptcy. We get the gas hog dregs.

    http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/chevrolet/chevrolet-captiva-2.2-vcdi-ls-5-seat.a- sp
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The EPA has the Captiva listed for the USA. And it gets a whopping 22 MPG hwy. Half what the EU diesel version gets. My bet would be some obscure regulation, allows them to be sold to fleets and not to individuals.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'm kind of wondering why a Universal Home Remote is an option on a fleet car, and OnStar is standard.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looking at the EU version, the Captiva is a much more expensive model than the Orlando. They are the same basic size. Use the same engine transmission. The cheapest Captiva starts where the most expensive Orlando tops out.

    That said it would be interesting to see who is buying these higher end CUVs for fleets? Are they part of the 75,000 GM vehicles WE bought last year? Fleet sales at GM are up 16% compared to only 3% overall for GM. Are we buying and stockpiling vehicles to keep GM numbers up?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    edited December 2012
    bpizzuti...read...very...carefully...I said, "It's not even on Chevrolet's website".

    Everyone here knows it's available in a fleet. You, I, busiris, whomever...we cannot purchase one.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/flash.html

    Not seeing that SS you said was available to purchase, on the site either.

    Hmmmm.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    From your post #15569...

    What Chevy is made in Mexico now?

    The specific question asked what Chevy is made in Mexico, and I gave you an accurate answer.

    Just because you don't like the answer, or perhaps don't wish to believe the Captiva is a Chevrolet (GM sure does think its a Chevrolet) is nothing more than another example of your all-too-often one-dimensional outlook on life.

    What do you think the Captiva will be when it ends up in the resale market.. .A Ford product?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    edited December 2012
    Weren't we talking about buying a Chevy made in Mexico? Man, I did well in my Logic class in college, but....sheesh.

    Is this website about the used-car market? I thought it was about individuals buying new American or foreign cars.

    It all started out by, "Geez, why don't they reissue the (so-and-so) to another division....it's been done before".

    The hard fact is...it has never been done by GM for the mass marketplace. Period. I'm sorry you guys don't like the accurate answer.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    What do you think the Captiva will be when it ends up in the resale market.. .A Ford product?

    According to cars.com, there are over 3,000 Captivas already on the used market.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    "Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?"

    I don't see anything specifying new American cars.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    You cannot spec one out on its own division's website.

    Do you think GM is primarily concerned with the new-car market, or wherever the used-car market goes?

    I believe no matter what is said here, we all know the real answer to that question.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Do you think GM is primarily concerned with the new-car market, or wherever the used-car market goes?

    I believe no matter what is said here, we all know the real answer to that question.


    Yes, we do (we as in us excepting you). GM is VERY concerned about the used vehicle market, because that's where all their leased cars end up. Not to mention sales and issues there still reflect on GM's reputation.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Do you think GM is primarily concerned with the new-car market, or wherever the used-car market goes?

    No doubt GM's fist priority is selling new vehicles, but I believe they care about the used market too. They do offer and make money on financing, extended warranty, and parts etc. Plus if they can maintain healthy residual values it helps with leasing new vehicles.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    why don't we look back and see how many posts are about 'Should I buy a used (blank) or a used (blank)?" Pretty disingenous.

    I see that come up all the time on various topics on Edmunds For example, Chronic Car Buyers. I know I've purchased far more used vehicles than new. I haven't bought a new vehicle since '01 and if I don't buy a new Ram next year, my next vehicle won't be new either.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    Please admit, "You, I, bpizzuti, or anyone else on this list cannot buy a new Captiva."

    But a fleet buyer can. And when they do, they're buying a NEW Chevrolet Captiva, made in Mexico.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    "Can you or I buy a new Captiva?"

    Yes I can buy one. Go talk to the fleet manager at your Chevy dealer.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Please admit, "You, I, bpizzuti, or anyone else on this list cannot buy a new Captiva."

    Sure I can, I just have to buy a fleet of them;) Or through a fleet. I'm willing to be if I wanted a new one bad enough, I could get one.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Uplander,

    I recall you asking "What Chevy is made in Mexico now?" The answer is the Silverado, Suburban, and Captiva.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If you guys can't play nice with each other, you can take it to Fight Club.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Although tlong thinks that the Captiva not being available for purchase is a 'joking response', the vehicle is not even on Chevrolet's website. No joke.

    Uplander posted "What Chevy is made in Mexico now? Oh, I do believe the Suburban is. Are there Toyotas sold here that are built in Japan? I don't know the answer. "

    Busiris then posted "The Chevrolet Captiva is built in Mexico. Although its only sold to fleets, it is a Chevrolet.

    So yes, the question was what vehicles are made in Mexico, and Busiris' response was accurate - he even clarified they were for fleets.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    Of course, how much of that is administrative costs? And the source, I won't say more.

    Poor people in the past still had radios and TVs. Modern tech is the equivalent. Red herring.

    All of this started with some overpaid CEO rambling on about a subject he can't document or defend, and apparently nobody here can do likewise. The end :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    "take it up with your congressman" is usually a cop out for "I know it's broken, deal with it yourself".

    Who trusts numbers reported by the largest kleptocracy since the British empire? Reminds me of crooked cops ruling on "suicides". Not a group with a penchant for integrity.

    Pretending things today are fair and just and that we live in some kind of egalitarian meritocracy isn't going to help anything either.

    And all because another should-be-hanged member of the 1% mouthed off, and some wannabe members can't admit it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    I'm not talking about track toys though. You want the most stripped down car possible for that. I am talking about a daily driver that will be used for boring commuting and road trips. You want a few comforts there.

    I live in an area that is usually dreary and dark - being able to let some light in or get some air on a rare sunny day can be nice. Offering these lowline cars without a simple option might not help Caddy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    Hmm...I wonder if the slowpokes so often in front of me are doing it because I drive a [non-permissible content removed]-mobile. Oh well, I can usually go around pretty easily :shades:

    Actually, knowing the average person, they probably think it is a British car.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    Hmm...I wonder if the slowpokes so often in front of me are doing it because I drive a [non-permissible content removed]-mobile.

    I don't think so. I think slowpokes go slow because that's the way they drive. There's a relatively high-traffic cut-through road near where I live, and everyone calls it the "Blue-hair expressway" because its dominated by old drivers that think if going 30 in a 35 mph zone is good, then going 25 mph must be better.

    Actually, knowing the average person, they probably think it is a British car.

    With some folks, one has to wonder if they even recognize it as a car...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    edited December 2012
    The original post was "Is buying a Chevy made in Mexico better than a Toyota made in America?". Again, no individual consumer--us--can buy a Captiva. I think the perception is that I wasn't aware of the Captiva before it was brought up here. Au contraire. I was aware of the Captiva being fleet-only before I posted here. Same with the Caprice (actually, police only). I thought we were talking about consumer vehicles available for retail purchase--what every single one of us experience here.

    Silverados at dealers up here are built in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/company_info/facilities/assembly/ftw.html

    Anyway, I am as sick of it as anyone else here about it. So, I'm done with the topic. Anyone feeling the need for the 'last word', now is your chance.

    Got back from our regional Studebaker Club Christmas banquet just recently, where one of the topics (as usual) is what events can we plan that will bring more members out, and what can we do to attract and retain new members? I and a guy one year younger than me were the youngest folks present today--and I'm 54. That is the crux of our club's problem.

    But that belongs on another forum!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I and a guy one year younger than me were the youngest folks present today--and I'm 54. That is the crux of our club's problem.

    I'd think that's an issue for many car clubs or any club. When I was an SCCA member 15+ years ago, it was primarily made of guys/gals that were under 25 pre-kids and the older empty nesters which primarily made the club.

    Once my daughter was born, I stopped. I do miss it and I might do again someday. But my priorities have changed. Unless I could get one of my daughters to do it with me, I don't have a desire to spend money and time on an activity that only I'll enjoy.

    So instead of having a nice new shiny sports car, I have a new boat which the whole family enjoys along with the kids friends. We might join the local yacht club at our marina this year. It doesn't cost much and they do provide a few open bar opportunities;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,907
    So instead of having a nice new shiny sports car, I have a new boat which the whole family enjoys along with the kids friends

    I don't even own a Studebaker right now, but I still enjoy the club.

    Your post above reminds me of something Jerry Seinfeld said (and I tend to agree, shame on me!):

    "There's no such thing as 'fun for the entire family'."
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    edited December 2012
    It's tough. Younger people have less interest in cars, and more importantly, have less money to throw around.

    National MB club is similar - big annual regional show has very few people under 40, and nobody under 30. Me and and a couple other guys in our 30s are always the youngest there. Lots of retirees.

    Online "clubs" get more participation from younger people, but of course, it is all online.
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