Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

bpizzuti

Most people have better things to do these days. Jobs, families, commitments they can't just drop in order to attend what amounts to a convention. I'd NEVER be able to attend a Mazda or Subaru meetup these days. Only reason I get to AAPEX and NADA is because I go there for work.

Then again, these days we have other ways to get with fellow fans and discuss this stuff, we don't NEED to attend these things. Internet forums have taken up a lot of the slack without generating the major life interruptions.

roadburner

The BMW club has a little younger average age, I think. My 18 year old son is one of the few car nuts in his circle of friends. Keeping things on topic, the only two American cars he would like to own are the Boss 302 and Corvette Z06.

busiris

I'm a member of the BMW car club (BMWCCA), but I suspect I'm what might be referred to as a "fringe" member.

At 58, I've long lost the desire to aggressively drive a car on a course, with the exception of the safety driving courses that help drivers understand the safety features (abs, anti-skid technology, etc.) imbedded in their cars.

I have the opinion that one of the best ways to see how the 20th Century advanced technology-wise is to examine and study cars and aircraft created during the period, and when I go to the occasional car or aircraft show I find I can still be amazed by the creativity that engineers had 25, 50, 75 and even more years ago in the ways they solved mechanically-based problems and challenges.

I usually don't go to club meetings, because I feel like the impetus has changed from understanding the mechanics (the reason things work the way they do) to one more akin to a lot of well-to-do cocky car owners and wanna-be race drivers attending a mutual admiration society.

I know that I'm painting with an awfully broad brush, and I mean no offense to any other club member. It's just been my personal experience that the younger members don't really care to understand why the car goes the way it does, but just that the car goes fast.

I think there's little question that the younger car buyers are far more intrigued with the electronic features of new cars than understanding how the mechanicals all mesh together to make the car go...

dieselone

Your post above reminds me of something Jerry Seinfeld said (and I tend to agree, shame on me!):

"There's no such thing as 'fun for the entire family'."

LOL. So far that's not the case for us. My wife and I grew up around boats and so have our kids. I've yet to meet a kid that doesn't have a smile on their face while cruising down the lake, flying on a tube, or getting up on a wakeboard or waterskis for the first time.

Generally our kids ask to go and their friends want to come along too. It's one of the few things you'll find teenagers wanting to do something with their parents all day.

But it's certainly not for everyone. If your the type that's anal or overly protective of your things, it probably won't be enjoyable for you or those around you. For me, when I'm on the lake I forget about M-F, the kids don't have a electronic device glued to their head and it's just a good time to decompress for us anyway

At least the vast majority of boats and campers are built in the USA. Even our Yamaha Waverunner is built here. The motor comes from Japan, but the Chevy 350 in our boat comes from Mexico, so go figure.

dieselone

Most people have better things to do these days. Jobs, families, commitments they can't just drop in order to attend what amounts to a convention.

I used to enjoy the club meetings but no way would I have the time to be a productive member now. Just to much going. In the summer months I'm busy at the lake on the weekends and during the school months the kids have me running ragged.

andres3

Found myself driving the company Dodge Minivan again. It was my turn to fill it up with gas, and I recalled a favorite feature of mine on the '95 Neon I had in the past; that the gauge cluster had an arrow pointing to the correct fill-up side of the car by the gas gauge. So I look down to see if a modern Dodge Minivan had that "neat" feature, and sure enough it did.

It was tremendously useful because for the life of me, sometimes I can't remember which side the gas cap is on, especially in rentals, company vehicles, or other cars that are not mine.

And furthermore, I always guess wrong when I don't know which side it is on, and I hate having to move twice inside a gas station.

It's a fantastic feature that I like. But then... I thought about it awhile, wondered why only Dodge's seem to have it and no one else does it. I was thinking, it was really a dumb feature on the Neon, as I know which side the gas cap is on in my own vehicle after the first fill up in its life. Why waste ink on the dash board cluster on something that'll be used once???

Then it hit me, Dodge is a rental car manufacturer! They make cars that last 3 years and that's usually all the time Hertz, Enterprise, and others need out of their vehicles.

I wish they would just be honest and admit all they make is rental car fodder.

bpizzuti

Every car I've driven that was built in this century has that.

Don't know offhand if it was on my old Corsica. But it's definitely on my Elantra, and it was on my Mazda3.

stever

The little arrow seems to be one of those features that's widespread but few people really know about it. Both my last century Subaru and Nissan have arrows (good thing too, since their gas tank doors are on opposite sides), as does the in-law's '05 Buick.

fintail

Never driven a MB or a German car that has such a feature. In all of them I have driven (other than antiques with the filler under the rear plate), it is on the passenger side.

stever

At least it's not hidden in the hinged tail light fin. :shades:

bpizzuti

In all of them I have driven (other than antiques with the filler under the rear plate), it is on the passenger side.

I wonder how they would orient the arrow in that case...

andres3

If the caps on the back the arrow should point down of course.

My Honda's haven't had any arrows, and of course, neither does the Audi.

There may be a graphic illustration showing the gas cap on the correct side in the manual......

uplanderguy

My Chevys have had that feature for a looonnnnngggg time.

uplanderguy

...and I'll admit that it was handy when my Cobalt has the fill on one side and our old van (which I didn't drive very often) on the other. A small thing of course.

mcdawgg

Wrong, Highlander is made in Indiana. I am not sure about the other ones on your list - would have to check.

dieselone

Both my Expedition and the wife's Taurus have an arrow pointing to which side the fuel fill is on. Not a big deal, but I admit I have to refer to it sometimes when I switch between vehicles.

gagrice

Highlander is made in Indiana.

I stand corrected. Only the Highlander Hybrid is 100% made in Japan. The Land Cruiser is 95% made in Japan. Not sure what the 5% US content is on the LC.

trendao

Furthermore even if a car that's built outside of the U.S. are still sold at American owned dealers and service centers, my car may be Bavarian but I bought it from an AutoNation dealer and get it serviced at a locally owned business that specializes in BMWs. I also spent money on various after-market upgrades, and all of those parts came from American manufacturers and retailers. The car may be German but I still buy my tires from Sears.

imidazol97

> built outside of the U.S. are still sold at American owned dealers and service centers

But it's still imported from a foreign company.

If you drink an imported beer, do you consider it a domestic because it was transported on trucks within the US, warehoused, and distributed by US-located businesses? And then served by someone in a US bar or restaurant or purchased from a US business like Kroger? Do you tell people you drink a domestic beer? Nope. You tell them that you selected an imported beer.

Same thing for cars. It's foreign based.

gagrice

If you drink an imported beer

I think beer is a great analogy to buying cars. You drink a beer that does not taste good to you, just because it comes from your home town, makes little sense. Same with buying a vehicle even more so. You get over the bad taste of a beer you did not like in a few hours. If you don't like the car you are driving, for most people you have that bad taste for YEARS.

I wonder how many here will still support GM when they are totally controlled by Chinese companies. GM could be bought for chump change. Just as a perspective, GM has a market Cap of $39 B. China has spent about twice that buying up USA assets in the last year. We owe them $3 trillion give or take. Obama could say we don't want to be in the auto business anymore and sell controlling interest to a Chinese company.

When buying anything, personal preference should be foremost. Second how will my purchase impact the USA and my neighbors. Life is too short to be driving in a vehicle you wish you hadn't bought. Ask me I have a made in USA Sequoia that was not my first choice.

stever

gocomics.com

imidazol97

Are you saying Santa Claus prefers foreign beer?

stever

Santa's the original outsourcer. Outsourcerer?

And the UEW is an especially diminutive union.

busiris

LOL!

busiris

When buying anything, personal preference should be foremost. Second how will my purchase impact the USA and my neighbors. Life is too short to be driving in a vehicle you wish you hadn't bought.

I completely agree.

If only a handful of buyers are picking up Toyota Corollas, the logic tells us it's a "fringe" product, and probably not worth the effort by the domestic carmakers to create a response.

On the other hand, and in fact, the Corolla is incredibly popular, and its hardly equipped with the latest and greatest bells and whistles. When the domestic auto industry fails to effectively create a competitive response to a product like that it is just as much a failure of the domestics as it is a success of Toyota.

Personally speaking, ill spend my money on the products and services that best suit my needs and desires, whether it be beer, a washer and dryer, or a car.

I certainly feel no responsibility nor remorse if a domestic company can't effectively compete with an off-shore company. Make the product that buyers want, at a price buyers are willing to pay. Problem solved.

imidazol97

>You drink a beer that does not taste good to you, just because it comes from your home town, makes little sense.

When there are hundreds, if not thousands, of homeland beers from which to choose, it's a stretch that none of them taste right. Just admit that you're drinking a foreign beer then if none of the homeland beers "suit" you.
Don't try to doll it up that the beer is sort of homeland because it was trucked to you across the homeland.

busiris

I wonder... If you went to a local restaurant, and all they wanted to serve you was calf liver (a food you do not care for), what would you do?

Eat the liver, to "support" the restaurant, or go somewhere else, and get the steak you wanted in the first place?

Would you support a local government tax break or tax $ infusion for the restaurant, to ensure it would still remain open for business?

If few care for calf liver, that restaurant isn't going to be around long, unless it widens its menu choices to provide what the customers want to eat, and external cash infusion will only delay the inevitable.

The lesson is clear. Either you provide what the customer wants at a reasonable price, or you go away.

imidazol97

This has gone off topic (intentionally, I suppose) from my original response. My response was to the tenet of the foreign car purchase actually being okay because the cars were sold by a dealer here, repaired by a dealer here, serviced by a dealer here, etc..

I am having trouble find a restaurant that offers only one entre. But the local places sell tens of kinds of beers.

>Would you support a local government tax break or tax $ infusion for the restaurant,

Some of the foreign beers probably had government subsidy in their foreign homeland just as foreign carmakers have had government subsidy in various ways, including protectionism. Don't you think it's time to give up on the government haven't helped GM, C, and F through the recent years? It was proven in the last election the people know what they want.

gagrice

Just admit that you're drinking a foreign beer then if none of the homeland beers "suit" you.

I hate Beer. Though to be sociable I will have a beer at our local brewery. They make a mild beer called Willie Nelson. They have the best Tacos on the planet.

But wonder if you like the most popular beer in America, "Bud"? It is now a foreign beer. Goes along with my former question. If the Chinese end up owning Government Motors would you still buy them?

ateixeira

It is now a foreign beer

Bingo, I was about the say the same thing.

Inbev owns Budweiser, so they're European.

Miller has been owned by South African Breweries for a while now.

And Coors is Canadian, Molsen owns them.

So, domestic beer? What domestic beer? You have to go to the smaller brands or microbrews to find true domestics.

And yes, there are PLENTY of good ones. :shades:

Going back to cars, is Chrysler really a domestic, now that Fiat is in charge? Should we give them a pass because they used to be domestic?

Dad's 200c has a VIN that starts with a 1, at least, but that's no more American than his Outback, made at SIA by Hoosiers.

stever

Were they still domestic when they had the "merger of equals" with Daimler?

bpizzuti

Luckily Sam Adams is still domestic. Chrysler isn't, it's been a foreign owned company ever since the Daimler thing.

busiris

Oh, I'm sure you're intelligent enough to get the drift of my point...

No business, whether it be restaurant or carmaker, can survive long term without supplying the product and service customers demand.

Tossing government $$$ at any enterprise that doesn't do exactly that only prolongs the inevitable demise of the company.

Personally, I can't say that I have it all figured out since the election (in fact, i doubt many people have "it", whatever you want "it" to be, figured out).

I suspect that if the losing side had inserted a more personable candidate as its front man, the election may have turned out differently, but this is a car forum, not one on politics... So I'll just let it go at that.

However, these other posters above make excellent points.

Define a "true domestic" (fill in the blank).

It's not as easy as it looks...

busiris

"Luckily Sam Adams is still domestic. Chrysler isn't, it's been a foreign owned company ever since the Daimler thing."

I don't drink much beer at all, except when I'm in Germany. German beer is chemical-free, and additives are highly regulated by law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot

However, on the occasion I do drink a beer with dinner, it's usually a local "in-house" brew from a microbrewery. We are fortunate to have several of them in my community.

So, I guess I'm "buying American"... When it comes to local beer purchases.

fintail

Hmm no wonder so much German beer seems to just taste better. I drank more Bitburger in a 24 hour period on my last trip than I had in my entire life up to that point :shades:

I too buy imported or microbrew...don't know if I would want a car from a micro-maker though.

imidazol97

Well, I'm not a beer drinker of merit. I think I recall half a can 3-4 years ago at the father-in-law's, who drank enough to make up for my lack of consumption. At least Maker's Mark is still made in Kentucky, isn't it?

dieselone

At least Maker's Mark is still made in Kentucky, isn't it?

Oh, now we're talking. I like beer and bourbon. I generally drink beer in the summer, but through the winter I switch to something that will warm me up a bit more. Now you've got me thinking of pouring a glass of some Maker's 46.

I'm not a beer snob, so domestic light beer is fine for me. Though I like a variety of beers.

imidazol97

I guess beer was not a good example because some of the companies have been off-shored at least in ownership. Does Imbev bring over boatloads of beer to sell alongside the Bud and other Busch products?

busiris

Does Imbev bring over boatloads of beer to sell alongside the Bud and other Busch products?


Yep!

http://www.ab-inbev.com/go/media/global_press_releases/press_release.cfm?theID=2- - 7&theLang=EN

fezo

My how times have changed. The leading American brewers are now Sam Adams and Yuengling.

andres3

They have the best Tacos on the planet.

You can't give a rave review like that and not provide a website link or address for me to taste these tacos! :P

Especially since I know you live in San Diego county if my memory serves.

This is on topic, as Mexican Tacos might be made with "made in the USA" ingredients.

andres3

Chrysler left me with such a bitter mouth I've never developed a taste for beer nor MB cars.

I considered Daimler-Benz (MB) an American company by being attached with Chrysler. Even if the ownership was the other way around, I'm sure I'm not the only potential customer MB lost with that merger.

busiris

It means its practically impossible to fire even the most inept worker...

This is what we get for our tax bailout $$$...

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/usatoday/article/1759589?odyssey=mod%7Cnewsw- - - ell%7Ctext%7CBusiness%7Cp

Chrysler took quick action two years ago after television news reports of workers at its Jefferson North plant in Detroit who were drinking beer or smoking marijuana on lunch breaks against factory policies.

It fired 13 of them. But now they're back on the job, having won an arbitration decision that reinstated them to their union jobs.

stever

And back pay too no doubt.

Good timing with all the right to work debate heating up in Lansing.

uplanderguy

Gagrice, I belatedly thank you for answering my question about Toyota products sold in this country that are built in Japan. Assuming (and that's all I'm doing) that all on your list except the Highlander (which someone else subsequently pointed out are built here as well), are built exclusively in Japan for this market, that's certainly a larger number of models than "Mexican Chevys" sold here.

I wonder if I'm the only one, but when I first saw your posts, I thought it stood for "Gag! Rice!" (as in 'rice burners' as some call them). I'm sure it's your name (no need to confirm) and I'm not making fun, but after reading enough of your posts I KNOW my first impression was a wrong one! All in good humor.

tlong

I thought it stood for "Gag! Rice!" (as in 'rice burners' as some call them). I'm sure it's your name (no need to confirm) and I'm not making fun, but after reading enough of your posts I KNOW my first impression was a wrong one! All in good humor.

I thought that in the beginning, too!
But I learned what it really meant. And no, he's not highly opinionated against any particular country. He's a reasonably (!) level-headed guy!

lemko

Heck, my Grand Marquis has that feature. What I miss are center-fill tanks. Then, it doesn't matter which side you pull up to at the pump. My 1989 Cadillac Brougham has a center-fill tank as did many of my other cars.

lemko

Personally speaking, ill spend my money on the products and services that best suit my needs and desires, whether it be beer, a washer and dryer, or a car.

Likewise:

Beer = Yuengling Lager
Washer/Dryer = Whirlpool
Car = Cadillac/Buick

bpizzuti

Beer = Yuengling Lager
Washer/Dryer = Whirlpool
Car = Cadillac/Buick

So, Chinese products all the way for you Lem? :shades:

lemko

There's a restaurant in my neighborhood that serves German beer. That stuff will knock you on you butt compared to most domestic beers. After 5 domestic beers, I've barely got a buzz. Five German beers and I'm wiped-out.