"....The article was titled something like "The Disappearing Middle Class Myth" or something like that. It was an interesting read."
See, I think that would feed into the "disapearing middle class" argument. A double income family both making the $21.90/hr salary makes around $90,000 based on a 40 hr work week w/o OT. Seeing as how 50% of wage earners make $17.50 or LESS, it shows that the gap between wage earners is widening. I wonder if this has to do with a lesser variety of job types available. More people making more money doing highly skilled jobs, yet far too many doing menial service type jobs. Not enough "in between" type jobs.
I see a not so funny correlation between pro sports here. All the superstars get their money, yet the rest must fend for what's left. If the average salary was say $4 million, how many actually make around that? Probably not many. Far too many make 4,5,6 times that and far too many make 1/4th, 1/5th and 1/6th that. But none of them should have it tough making ends meet at $500,000/yr
".....That's hard to do when lost jobs were over paid unskilled labor to begin with"
That's where you lose me. It's one thing to say someone's "overpaid" if they are making obsolete buggy whips that nobody wants, but not when you send the work to another country to get it done for slave wages, yet still charge the same for the finished product.
2 different animals. GP was the GM10 and W body, While the PA was the H (???) then the G platform from the Aurora.
Pretty much. They called the Park Ave the C-body from 1985-90 and 1991-96, and then it went to the stiffer G-body from 1997-2005. When it was in its C-body phase though, the H-body was the same basic thing, just a little shorter.
One thing I'll say in the Grand Prix's defense...when those 2004 models first came out, I thought the fit and finish was vastly improved over the 1997-2003 generation. I thought the '97-03 had a sexier looking body, but the interior quality and the fit and finish just seemed horrible. The '04 still had too much hard plastic, but at least it seemed to line up much better, and the gaps seemed more even. Plus, they finally got rid of that damned 3.1 and made the 3.8 the standard engine.
"......GM will become Chinese and Toyota, Hyundai, Honda and Nissan will become American."
I agree, if GM gets bought by the Chinese then they will become a Chinese company, but unless an American company buys the others, or they move their world hq here, and make their decisions here, they will NEVER be an American company.
I suspect the larger multi-national corporations no longer see themselves as being associated with a singular "parental" country, and its most likely a sign of things to come. SImply put, if there's a diminishing advantage "value" to be seen that way, why promote that view?
With the transition of individual European countries into the European Union, for example, its much less important for a German company to be viewed as a German company, but as a European company. Think Airbus....
As far as auto manufacturers are concerned, none of the major manufacturers (including the Big-3) centralize 100% of their decision making assets in a single country. Its been that way for quite some time.
For all intents and purposes, a company being viewed as being of a particular "country" description is an outdated mode of perception (except for those simply interested in winning a "measuring contest"), and will be of less and less importance as time moves on.
Seeing as how 50% of wage earners make $17.50 or LESS, it shows that the gap between wage earners is widening.
I guess that depends on who the wage earners are. I expect the young and old to earn less. What really matters is what are households with kids under 18 earning. The BLS had a very interesting report out last year on the income of married households with kids. The average household income for that group was over $75k and had increased a decent amount vs 20 years ago, where as, we all know the stats showing wages to be flat overall.
But, people are generally waiting longer to start a family, so the incomes should be higher with people advancing in their careers before kids. My parents had me when they were teenagers. My wife and I didn't have kids until our late 20's. We were in different leagues as far as income brackets. My wife and I had a new house, two cars, and took vacations. When I was born, my dad was a stock clerk at a grocery store, my mom waited tables, and we lived in a 1 bedroom apartment above a hobby store.
I see a not so funny correlation between pro sports here. All the superstars get their money, yet the rest must fend for what's left. If the average salary was say $4 million, how many actually make around that? Probably not many. Far too many make 4,5,6 times that and far too many make 1/4th, 1/5th and 1/6th that. But none of them should have it tough making ends meet at $500,000/yr
That's a good analogy, seems the 80/20 rule applies just about everywhere. Unfortunately the kid "scraping" by on $500k, often thinks he can spend money like the starting quarterback earning $5 mi/yr. Kid blows out knee, no longer earns $500k/yr but still owes $2 mill on his house, Bentley, and posse. But that's a whole other topic.
That's where you lose me. It's one thing to say someone's "overpaid" if they are making obsolete buggy whips that nobody wants, but not when you send the work to another country to get it done for slave wages, yet still charge the same for the finished product.
Well that's a whole other issue. I was referring more towards instances where a company closes or productivity increases results in reduction of workforce etc.
There are a host of economic reasons why production can be sent to low cost producers and the price doesn't change. Maybe the factory here was losing money with the high cost of labor and/or regulations etc and moving production overseas means they can be profitable at the price customers are willing to pay. And of course one can never rule out greed, but the market still has to be willing to pay the price, if people won't pay it, they can't charge it. Or if people have to have it, the high prices means they'll buy less and production will have to be adjusted accordingly.
If the pet rocks I produce cost met $1 a piece and people are willing to pay $10, well I'll sell them for $10. But if I end up with a warehouse full at $10, I'll put them on sale for $5. If people are only willing to pay $.50, I better find cheaper rocks or find another line of work.
When I lived in West Philly over 20 years ago, I'd see a bus taking inner city people to work on farms in the suburbs and beyond. I heard they were actually paid pretty well and I'd have done it if there were no other employment alternatives. Unfortunately, illegal immigrants have now taken those farm jobs and are paid a lot less than the inner city residents who did those jobs 20 years ago.
Tax breaks, not from profits? So, all taxpayers got to buy some jobs for those lucky enough to be hired? Anyway, don't be too impressed by those 'investments' - those few billions pale beside the megabillions in profits they generate, nearly ALL of which leave this country. Not that there's anything wrong with that? And all because of the Big Three's 30+ years of mismanagement which had them producing inferior products which is what finally drove them to the brink which is where we taxpayers [again] came in.
"Not so much a "devine right" to a particular job, but a devine right to the "life, liberty and persuit of happiness", with a reasonable "return" on their "investment" of training and work."...Exactly, free to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which in no way guarantees anybody anything in the employment areana except to try and succeed the best they can...equality of OUTCOME has never been guaranteed, just the opportunity to be free to try and succeed or try and fail...the concept of reasonble return is not guaranteed if their training has taught them obsolete skills...would I be guaranteed a reasonable return if I told you I just graduated from school with a degree in "camera film development" where I not only can develop your family photos from your Minolta camera in B&W but also color prints???...or would you say I might be a little late with that "skill?"...
I also was just certified in "automotive tune-up" and I can adjust the points in a distributor (you may not be old enough to know what points and condensers are) for maximum mpg...where do I go for my job???...where's my guarantee???..I have a specialized sub-niche, I can make your engine run better on Sunoco 260 gasoline, a fuel with a heavy lead content to give it an octane rating of 104...tell me when I report for my next job...or am I just a victim of obsolete training???
"Not so much a "devine right" to a particular job, but a devine right to the "life, liberty and persuit of happiness", with a reasonable "return" on their "investment" of training and work."...Exactly, free to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which in no way guarantees anybody anything in the employment areana except to try and succeed the best they can...equality of OUTCOME has never been guaranteed, just the opportunity to be free to try and succeed or try and fail...the concept of reasonble return is not guaranteed if their training has taught them obsolete skills...would I be guaranteed a reasonable return if I told you I just graduated from school with a degree in "camera film development" where I not only can develop your family photos from your Minolta camera in B&W but also color prints???...or would you say I might be a little late with that "skill?"...
Agreed....
And, with a national high school graduation rate somewhere around 70%, we aren't going to be able to continue riding the crest of the "technology wave" much longer.
Was reading an article that predicted Hyundai would drop their "Kia" lineup since the Kia brand is the "rent car" image..I guess that the "junk line" will hide better under the Hyundai banner..than a "stand alone"...I read somewhere that an upset Camry owner over warranty issues settled the situation by trading for a Kia.. Funny move!!!!! Wow!!!!
Just another "Yugo".....................Remember the "HenryJ"?????, "Allstate" At least the Crosley had a super little engine, the "Good Old Days", American ingenuity when uncapped is usually a winner and tends to keep the $$$$$$ at home..Don't you kinda fed up driving around in "riceburners" and some their creations are getting downright "ugly" with weird nameplates..
Took the Camry in last week for its annual oil change, $16.95, I think the oil capacity is 4qts in the 4banger, not really enough fluid to feel comfortable cruising at 90...Since I pay for the gas/repairs/tires I must say it runs good, little drony and buzzy, but good enough for the little lady..At 3500-5000 miles annually this little 2002 XLE fits the bill, little insurance cost, and has new tires and brakes, set for another year..
I tried to give her my 2006 Pontiac GPGT, but she said it rides bad, noisy, and gulps gas. Right-on, baby...Makes it hard to fall asleep while driving, just wait until the Mustang GT joins the party...a 5 spd stick will keep the family away from the wheel..grandkids at bay..
I going to pass on the 2011 V-6 Mustang, go for a 2010 V-8, lots of them sitting around looking for a home at bargain prices, top end is great and will give Ford a couple yrs to get the V-6 debugged with a high-end performance pkg..Love that V-8 rumble!!!!!
The Henry J and Allstate were the same car with different grilles and trim. The Allstate was sold through Sears stores, mostly in the Southeast, and came with Sears brand tires and batteries.
I recall Crosley's CoBra (copper-brazed) sheetmetal engine. It was later replaced with a regular cast-iron block.
A few you missed were the Hudson Jet, Nash Rambler, and the King Midget.
In 1965 my wife was passenger in a Nash Metropolitan. They were eating in her friends car at a local hangout called the "Varsity" in Atlanta. I had met the friend the week before. Started talking to them and we were married 7 months later. Yep, still married. She still says she was attracted to my Red 64 GTO more than me! Hey, that's cool, what ever it takes!
Growing up in days of yore, there were still some Willis cars around. One in the neighborhood had the original 4 cylinder. Most I knew of were outfitted with various V8s for the drag strip.
Next door neighbor had a Kaiser, which was somewhat ahead of its time. I think that one was originally called a Kaiser-Frazier or something like that.
A friend had a Packard with a straight 8 Engine. Think it was a 48 or 49 model but not sure. It was straight shift and real quick . For the time! He said Packard engines of that type we used in some aircraft, but with more horse power. He also said his engine had some of the aircraft type modifications. I didn't know enough at that time to ask questions.
See a Studebaker occasionally. The early 50 models were real sleepers, because any self respecting teenager wouldn't be seen driving one. But that V8 would blow the doors off a flat head Ford, which were very popular. A friends mother had one that he could occasionally borrow. The local flat head jockeys stayed out of it's way. They didn't want the stigma of being out run by "Tim's mother's car". The foolish ones were living with the shame.
I occasionally see a "Checker" car in our area. At one time they were plentiful and used almost exclusively as taxi cabs.
"They were eating in her friends car at a local hangout called the "Varsity" in Atlanta."...
After a date at the Varsity, I'm surprised there was a second date, and yet they still married???
When I am PO'd at my wife, I offer to take her out to the "V" (as it is called) for PUNISHMENT...I offer to drop her off while I go eat steak and offer to pick her up 90 minutes later...
OK...not... :P
But if I ever went to lunch with rocky, I would take him to the Varsity and show him how productive NON-UNION workers can be...oh, what fun that would be...FOR ME!!!!!... :P :shades:
>"After a date at the Varsity, I'm surprised there was a second date, and yet they still married???"
Absolutely! The first encounter was getting to know her and get a phone number. The first real date, I picked her up at her house and met her family. We went to a movie in downtown Atlanta and ended up at the Varsity. We parked on the upper level and she was really impressed by the excitement of the cars, sounds, and excitement there. A different world from the lower level. Seven months later we were married and have been that way longer than most on this forum have been alive.
"But if I ever went to lunch with rocky, I would take him to the Varsity and show him how productive NON-UNION workers can be...oh, what fun that would be...FOR ME!!!!!..."
The guy that started the Varsity was Frank Gordy. He was a Georgia Tech drop out. Varsity started out as a dinky little hot dog stand and eventually grew to be one of the most successful businesses of that type in the world. I've seen it featured several times on various TV shows. Travel channel alone has done several.
Back in the 50s, and probably before that, it catered to Ga Tech students, which were mostly male. Young ladies did not go inside. They stayed in their cars and the guys walked around the parking decks (2) and talked to them. There were also roving police officers to keep down any trouble.
Upper level parking deck was used a lot by those of us that were really proud of our cars. Lots of chrome, the rumpty rump of hot cams and throaty exhaust, special paint and so forth. Many a "drag" race originated there. The expressway "ON" ramp was next to the Varsity exit ramp. Two cars leave the Varsity, ease down the ramp and when the light (night) traffic would allow, then "GO".
The Car Hops worked for tips and actually paid a small fee to cover their uniform jackets and laundering of them. Apparently they made decent money as some had been there for a long time and there was a long waiting list for potential car hops. When a car pulled in off of North Avenue, one of them would either sit on the front fender or stand on the bumper or running board, if available, unless we didn't want them to. . Back then the metal in cars was strong enough to handle the weight without bending, and they could not wear pants with rivets or have anything in the pockets that could scratch paint.
The Varsity is a working example of how hard work, even without a college degree, can pay off. There was no Union to drag it down and the employees tended to work hard and be paid according to their skill level. Their food was as good or better quality as could be found in the fast food arena. Although some folks don't care for their products, apparently many do.
In those days Detroit Iron was as good or better than most anything in the world. Generally speaking if you saw a younger person in a foreign car at the Varsity, it would be something like a Morris Minor, Triumph, or MG roaster, And it had a good chance of having a chevy small block V8 stuffed under the hood!
>"When I am PO'd at my wife, I offer to take her out to the "V" (as it is called) for PUNISHMENT...I offer to drop her off while I go eat steak and offer to pick her up 90 minutes later..."
And when she goes in and meets up with her friends they just might get a good laugh at how they are being "Punished". :P
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"Back in the 50s, and probably before that, it catered to Ga Tech students, which were mostly male. Young ladies did not go inside."
I appreciate the history, and I have also seen that show on Travel Channel...
I went to Georgia Tech, 1971-1973, and lived in Smith Dorm, which was the dorm on North Ave right at the exit ramp of the Interstate...in essence, I believe I lived in the residential building (not commercial bldg) that was closest to the Varsity...walk out the dorm, cross the bridge, eat at V...yeah, I am as familair with it as anybody...
Who can blame them??? Obviously in your mind GM can't make a good, domestic vehicle. There are lot of people in these forums that won't drive anything except a German made vehicle. The Regal is made in Germany....and was the European vehicle of the year in 2009.
"......(you may not be old enough to know what points and condensers are)"
Points??? Isn't that something you score??? Condensers??? Isn't that something for an air conditioner??? (SSSSHHHHHH, don't let my '65 Wildcat hear me talk like that, I might have to adjust the dwell)
Dwell??? Isn't that something pondered............ :P :P
How could I forget, my dwell-tach and timing light, plus my brass feeler gauges to set the gap on the electronic ignition on Chrysler cars in 1972, and setting the gap on most spark plugs to 0.035 inches (thirty-five thousandths of an inch)...
Oh, and don't forget...nothing, but NOTHING, was metric back then for Big 3...wrenches for nuts and bolts were in fractions of an inch, not some crap like 2.5 millimeters...
I have always said, if we passed a law that said all nuts, bolts, screws, etc had to be SAE/USS measurements or the item could not be sold in the USA, it would take about 3 minutes for Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, VW, Porsche, Audi to change or they would close the next day because if they did not have access to the American market, they would close...
>"Oh, and don't forget...nothing, but NOTHING, was metric back then for Big 3...wrenches for nuts and bolts were in fractions of an inch, not some crap like 2.5 millimeters... "
Seems that the bolts on the engine oil pan, the tranny oil pan, or maybe both are metric on our 78 Chevy van. Or I just don't have the right American wrench to fit, and a metric just happens to fit.
I've also run across some that were really weird. Don't remember what size they were but they were not the more common 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, 3/4 and so on. More like 17/32 or something as obscure. Standard full numbered metrics didn't fit either. They may have well been one of the half size metrics you speak of. Seems the Chevy oil pressure sending unit has it's own special wrench size also.
Cars were certainly more simple and straight forward to work on, in those days gone by. Seems that when something started to go bad, there was plenty of warning. And the "fix" was generally cheap for those with a small amount of knowledge and some tools
Now days they just seem to "STOP WORKING" and they have to be diagnosed with expensive equipment and the "Fix" can be really expensive. The AC on my sons 99 Grand Cherokee Limited stopped working. The compressor would come on and off, but not the fan inside the car. We spent a lot of time trouble shooting the problem but came up with nothing. On some forum he learned of a "Box" that might be the problem. He purchased such a box. It was about the size of a pack of cigarettes and cost about $160. It fixed the problem. Had to remove a big part of the dash to replace it.
My 78 Van AC/Heater fan stopped working. Pretty simple circuit. Fuse, switch and fan motor. There was power at the fan connector, and a new fan fixed the problem. Seems it was $30 or so.
Wouldn't it just be simpler to have a set of metric tools along with the SAE ones? I got quite familiar with the metric set working on my then-girlfriend's balky Jetta. Besides, there are a lot of metric nuts and bolts on US cars nowadays. It's been a trend since the late 1970s. I recall looking underneath the hood of a 1979 Cadillac Coupe DeVille when the thought of going metric was in vogue. All the metric bolt heads were painted a bright blue.
That's why I loved my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe and Mopars with the Slant Six. They were beautiful in their simplicity. I could change a water pump on my '68 in 20 minutes.
>"Obviously in your mind GM can't make a good, domestic vehicle. There are lot of people in these forums that won't drive anything except a German made vehicle. The Regal is made in Germany....and was the European vehicle of the year in 2009."
As it is built in Germany, can it really be called a Domestic? (built here?)
Where does the money for parts, labor, and profits go? Seems that if it is built in Germany, then German workers get the money, not American workers. Most likely most of the parts are built over seas also. And most of the corporate profits most likely stay with GM on that side of the pond.
Does any of that money reach these shores, or feed an American worker?
No doubt that folks here would buy one and proudly drive their "American" Buick around, when in fact Toyota, Honda, and many others fall more into the "American" car frame work.
Chrysler was the first to have an electronic ignition, back in 1972, I believe, whereas Ford and GM went electronic in 1975 (except some 1974 Grand Prix did have electronics, if my memory serves correctly)...
On the Chrysler distributor, you had to set the gap between the rotating element and a stationary part, something like 8 thousandths IIRC...both parts were iron, I think and could be magnetized if a steel feeler gauge came in contact, so brass feeler gauges were used so as not to magnetize the parts...if they became magnetized I think they were quite useless, so brass was inert...
Chrysler was often on the technological forefront before GM and Ford...Chrysler had the first electronic ignition, and they also had the first alternator, around 62 or 63, whereas GM/F did not do away with the generator until 1964 or 1965...going back that far I may be off a few years...
I have never liked metric...maybe you are correct that we are not the gorilla on the world stage anymore, but back in the 70s, 80s, 90s all foreign automakers would die for access to the US market...if we had said "Do it our way or no US sales" they would have converted in a heartbeat...
Now we can't buy anything unles it is sized in liters, millimeters or whatever...I am shocked that we still use miles on highways and gallons for fuel...
Next thing you know, they will take away my vacuum tubes and force me to use transistors...oh, the horror... :mad: :P
Thought I read first year Regals were imported from Germany, then after that they were to be built here in the states. It'll be interesting to see over time which prove more reliable.
The Regals WILL be built in Oshawa. That plant has won countless awards as being the highest quality factory in North America. Right now, however, the Regal is being built in Germany and shipped across the pond to the states.
As it is built in Germany, can it really be called a Domestic? (built here?)
Where does the money for parts, labor, and profits go? Seems that if it is built in Germany, then German workers get the money, not American workers. Most likely most of the parts are built over seas also. And most of the corporate profits most likely stay with GM on that side of the pond.
Does any of that money reach these shores, or feed an American worker?
No doubt that folks here would buy one and proudly drive their "American" Buick around, when in fact Toyota, Honda, and many others fall more into the "American" car frame work.
And, the debate continues.
The reality is this.... Practically ANY auto manufacturer is multi-national today, and they play the currency-exchange game with their cash like any other multi-national (and some national) companies.
Regardless where the company is "based", they don't place all their profits in a bank down the street from the home office. They keep cash stashed all around the world, in order to take advantage of lower-priced production opportunities.
Primarily, Honda makes cars here that sell here. BMW makes cars in Germany that sell in Germany. Americans benefit far more from the $$$ spent by Honda making cars here than from GM making Aveos in Korea.
Manufacturers make the cars (products) where they can maximize their profits. Its just that simple.If its more profitable to import cars/products, they will be imported.
England uses a lot of metric, but uses (imperial) mpg and plain old miles when it comes to vehicle related subjects. An odd mix.
I think a "do it our way" edict would have created policy in retribution by the Europeans and Japanese that would have put many Americans out of work, too. Globalization, it's all good.
England uses a lot of metric, but uses (imperial) mpg and plain old miles when it comes to vehicle related subjects. An odd mix.
I think a "do it our way" edict would have created policy in retribution by the Europeans and Japanese that would have put many Americans out of work, too. Globalization, it's all good.
I think one thing Jimmy Carter had correct was to convert us to metric. One thing Reagan did wrong is stopping it. And so 30 years later we are one of the last dinosaur countries using this stupid measurement system.
I think one thing Jimmy Carter had correct was to convert us to metric. One thing Reagan did wrong is stopping it. And so 30 years later we are one of the last dinosaur countries using this stupid measurement system.
I agree, especially since we remain in "hybrid" mode, using both systems at once.
Pick one or the other, and go with it.
And, since Metric is the system in the widest use, as well as being easier to teach and understand, its the one I would pick as the winner.
"And so 30 years later we are one of the last dinosaur countries using this stupid measurement system."
Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's just because I am used to it, but I really do not see any advantage to the metric system over our inch, foot, yard, etc system...
Can you explain why metric is REALLY better, or just an alternative system to ours (regardless of how widespread it may be used)...thanks
"They were eating in her friends car at a local hangout called the "Varsity" in Atlanta."
Do they still have those grease pits Waffle House and Krystal Burger (home of the southern slider) in Georgia? I think there used to be a hamburger chain called Kelly's or something with a scotch colored motif in Augusta back in the 70's too, but I don't remember if they were in Hotlanta - you got grease soppin's by just blotting with a napkin and then squeezing!.
Waffle Houses are almost located on every Interstate exit in GA...it is truly hard to find any exit where Waffle House isn't there...they really are alsmot everywhere, and most of them are always busy...
In the little town of Madison, about 60 miles east of Atlanta on Interstate 20, there was a Waffle House...a few years ago, a restaurant broke ground and behold, a second Waffle House was built...so, when you came off the exit ramp, you could turn left or turn right and drive to a Waffle House within a half mile...this in a county of 18,000 and a "city" of about 4,000...
Krystal is also all over, just not as many as Waffle House...their sliders remind me of White Castle burgers up north...
I eat at Waffle House a few times a year (truly good waffles, coffee tastes like battery acid almost identical to Starbucks, iced tea is mediocre), have not eaten at Krystal for about 1000 years...not a misprint...yes, 1000 years...
Forgive me if I seem obstinate, I really am trying to learn...
Just because something is based on a system of 10 changes nothing...OK, so you can do it in your head...once you learn an inch, mentally dividing it in half is simple, or again in half (1/4) or again to 1/8 or 1/16, etc....to me, the unit of the meter is as arbitrary as the yard, ecept that the meter does divide down by 10 (centimeter, millimeter), but so what???
What is so holy about a liter, which is 1000 milliliters???...again, so what???...why is a tablespoon or a teaspoon such a problem???...why is adding a pint of milk any more difficult than 1/2 a liter???...we have spoons in our silverware drawer...what is so hard to say "add two teaspoons of salt" instead of "add 10 grams of salt?"
a cup is half a pint, a pint is half a quart, a quart is 1/4 gallon...what do we gain by selling milk by the liter...why bother???
To my biased mind, calling the metric system superior is meaningless...I will agree that the math is easier based on "10", but what is so hard about a cup of milk or a half of an inch, as long as you have the correct measuring tool???...I need a ruler to measure half an inch...are you telling me that no one needs a ruler to measure a centimeter, or two centimeters???...
Used to be with a "half-nine" (half inch-9/16ths inch) combination open-end wrench you could almost disassemble a car, since almost all the hex heads took that wrench...what advantage is there to a 15/17 mm wrench (or whatever number of mm's was close)...
I simply see no need for metric...don't forget, homes should be built with 2/4s 16 inches on center for a strong wall...what advantage to say it in centimeters???
A worthless attempted conversion if I ever saw one...
Forgive me if I seem obstinate, I really am trying to learn... . . .
I simply see no need for metric...don't forget, homes should be built with 2/4s 16 inches on center for a strong wall...what advantage to say it in centimeters???
A worthless attempted conversion if I ever saw one...
I would have to say your last sentence is a 180 from your first one.
Quick... How many thousandths of an inch is 1/64th of an inch?
Now, how many thousandths of a meter is 13 MM?
If that doesn't explain the preference for the metric system over the US system, then nothing will convince you.
Of course, both systems work. One just is much easier to use that the other.
Forgive me if I seem obstinate, I really am trying to learn... A worthless attempted conversion if I ever saw one...
Those two statements seem in opposition. Tell me again... how many teaspoons in a cup? (Does it depend on how many people are coming over for tea?) :P
Metric is superior because it's more logical, easier to learn, and more universally accepted. Once we quit teaching the "old system", it will vanish in a generation.
Point of interest: Did you know that a liter of water weighs one kilogram? And a pint of water weights a pound.
Where does the money for parts, labor, and profits go? Seems that if it is built in Germany, then German workers get the money, not American workers. Most likely most of the parts are built over seas also. And most of the corporate profits most likely stay with GM on that side of the pond.
Does any of that money reach these shores, or feed an American worker?
GM has long been making money in China, despite a lower sales price for the smaller vehicles it sells there. The profits from China have been reinvested to grow its capacity and operations there.
Years of ongoing losses in its home market, and a sharp plunge in sales here starting in 2008, caused the company to file for bankruptcy a year ago. During its reorganization it shed plants, workers, dealerships and much of its debt owed to bondholders. It emerged with the help of a $50 billion bailout from U.S. taxpayers.
Its ability to pay back that bailout will depend upon its planned sale of stock to the public later this year or early next year.
The value of its Chinese operations is expected to be a significant part of the value of that stock when it hits the market.
I'm a bit math challenged. So I won't buy a tape measure unless it's an "engineers" rule. I can divide 93 cm a lot easier than 36 and 5/8ths inches if I'm trying to cut a board in half. None of my freebie calculators in my tool box divide fractions.
Unless you've sawn your own, you've likely never seen a 2 x 4 either. The real dimensions are 38 x 89 mm (aka 1-1/2" x 3-1/2"). :P
Buying American means having to own two sets of sockets.
Although you are trying to make a point, nobody would be converting teaspoons to cups. They would use a cup measure to determine a cup of something...
But since you asked, isn't the rubric that there are three teaspoons in a tablespoon and two tablespoons in an ounce and 8 ounces in a cup! Be aware household teaspoons and tablespoons are not actually the scientific sizes they should be for measuring.
I am sure if I had been raised on the metric system it would be great but I wasn't. For science its awesome. Measurements are easy and straight forward in metric. For example if you want to take 1/2 of 3/4 inch its a problem with the math....... now if you want to take 1/2 of 500 millimeters its easy........... That's the reason folks want metric..
In our system for us oldtimers its confusing. I was driving back from Alaska 5 years ago and the darn Ford 250 diesel had the speed in both large readable numbers in our numbers MPG and on the inside of the circle little bitty numbers in METRIC kilometers. The road sign said 45 KM ... Now 45 mph was way too fast for the curve and I had to really jam on the brakes to keep from having an accident........ the only set of rotors I ever warped..
Even as I write this I can't tell you how to convert KM to MPH or even a reasonable guess... or F to C or miles to Kilometers... etc etc.... It just loses me.
Comments
See, I think that would feed into the "disapearing middle class" argument. A double income family both making the $21.90/hr salary makes around $90,000 based on a 40 hr work week w/o OT. Seeing as how 50% of wage earners make $17.50 or LESS, it shows that the gap between wage earners is widening. I wonder if this has to do with a lesser variety of job types available. More people making more money doing highly skilled jobs, yet far too many doing menial service type jobs. Not enough "in between" type jobs.
I see a not so funny correlation between pro sports here. All the superstars get their money, yet the rest must fend for what's left. If the average salary was say $4 million, how many actually make around that? Probably not many. Far too many make 4,5,6 times that and far too many make 1/4th, 1/5th and 1/6th that. But none of them should have it tough making ends meet at $500,000/yr
That's where you lose me. It's one thing to say someone's "overpaid" if they are making obsolete buggy whips that nobody wants, but not when you send the work to another country to get it done for slave wages, yet still charge the same for the finished product.
Pretty much. They called the Park Ave the C-body from 1985-90 and 1991-96, and then it went to the stiffer G-body from 1997-2005. When it was in its C-body phase though, the H-body was the same basic thing, just a little shorter.
One thing I'll say in the Grand Prix's defense...when those 2004 models first came out, I thought the fit and finish was vastly improved over the 1997-2003 generation. I thought the '97-03 had a sexier looking body, but the interior quality and the fit and finish just seemed horrible. The '04 still had too much hard plastic, but at least it seemed to line up much better, and the gaps seemed more even. Plus, they finally got rid of that damned 3.1 and made the 3.8 the standard engine.
I agree, if GM gets bought by the Chinese then they will become a Chinese company, but unless an American company buys the others, or they move their world hq here, and make their decisions here, they will NEVER be an American company.
I suspect the larger multi-national corporations no longer see themselves as being associated with a singular "parental" country, and its most likely a sign of things to come. SImply put, if there's a diminishing advantage "value" to be seen that way, why promote that view?
With the transition of individual European countries into the European Union, for example, its much less important for a German company to be viewed as a German company, but as a European company. Think Airbus....
As far as auto manufacturers are concerned, none of the major manufacturers (including the Big-3) centralize 100% of their decision making assets in a single country. Its been that way for quite some time.
For all intents and purposes, a company being viewed as being of a particular "country" description is an outdated mode of perception (except for those simply interested in winning a "measuring contest"), and will be of less and less importance as time moves on.
I guess that depends on who the wage earners are. I expect the young and old to earn less. What really matters is what are households with kids under 18 earning. The BLS had a very interesting report out last year on the income of married households with kids. The average household income for that group was over $75k and had increased a decent amount vs 20 years ago, where as, we all know the stats showing wages to be flat overall.
But, people are generally waiting longer to start a family, so the incomes should be higher with people advancing in their careers before kids. My parents had me when they were teenagers. My wife and I didn't have kids until our late 20's. We were in different leagues as far as income brackets. My wife and I had a new house, two cars, and took vacations. When I was born, my dad was a stock clerk at a grocery store, my mom waited tables, and we lived in a 1 bedroom apartment above a hobby store.
I see a not so funny correlation between pro sports here. All the superstars get their money, yet the rest must fend for what's left. If the average salary was say $4 million, how many actually make around that? Probably not many. Far too many make 4,5,6 times that and far too many make 1/4th, 1/5th and 1/6th that. But none of them should have it tough making ends meet at $500,000/yr
That's a good analogy, seems the 80/20 rule applies just about everywhere. Unfortunately the kid "scraping" by on $500k, often thinks he can spend money like the starting quarterback earning $5 mi/yr. Kid blows out knee, no longer earns $500k/yr but still owes $2 mill on his house, Bentley, and posse. But that's a whole other topic.
Well that's a whole other issue. I was referring more towards instances where a company closes or productivity increases results in reduction of workforce etc.
There are a host of economic reasons why production can be sent to low cost producers and the price doesn't change. Maybe the factory here was losing money with the high cost of labor and/or regulations etc and moving production overseas means they can be profitable at the price customers are willing to pay. And of course one can never rule out greed, but the market still has to be willing to pay the price, if people won't pay it, they can't charge it. Or if people have to have it, the high prices means they'll buy less and production will have to be adjusted accordingly.
If the pet rocks I produce cost met $1 a piece and people are willing to pay $10, well I'll sell them for $10. But if I end up with a warehouse full at $10, I'll put them on sale for $5. If people are only willing to pay $.50, I better find cheaper rocks or find another line of work.
I also was just certified in "automotive tune-up" and I can adjust the points in a distributor (you may not be old enough to know what points and condensers are) for maximum mpg...where do I go for my job???...where's my guarantee???..I have a specialized sub-niche, I can make your engine run better on Sunoco 260 gasoline, a fuel with a heavy lead content to give it an octane rating of 104...tell me when I report for my next job...or am I just a victim of obsolete training???
Agreed....
And, with a national high school graduation rate somewhere around 70%, we aren't going to be able to continue riding the crest of the "technology wave" much longer.
But, that's another story....
Just another "Yugo".....................Remember the "HenryJ"?????, "Allstate" At least the Crosley had a super little engine, the "Good Old Days", American ingenuity when uncapped is usually a winner and tends to keep the $$$$$$ at home..Don't you kinda fed up driving around in "riceburners" and some their creations are getting downright "ugly" with weird nameplates..
Took the Camry in last week for its annual oil change, $16.95, I think the oil capacity is 4qts in the 4banger, not really enough fluid to feel comfortable cruising at 90...Since I pay for the gas/repairs/tires I must say it runs good, little drony and buzzy, but good enough for the little lady..At 3500-5000 miles annually this little 2002 XLE fits the bill, little insurance cost, and has new tires and brakes, set for another year..
I tried to give her my 2006 Pontiac GPGT, but she said it rides bad, noisy, and gulps gas. Right-on, baby...Makes it hard to fall asleep while driving, just wait until the Mustang GT joins the party...a 5 spd stick will keep the family away from the wheel..grandkids at bay..
I going to pass on the 2011 V-6 Mustang, go for a 2010 V-8, lots of them sitting around looking for a home at bargain prices, top end is great and will give Ford a couple yrs to get the V-6 debugged with a high-end performance pkg..Love that V-8 rumble!!!!!
I recall Crosley's CoBra (copper-brazed) sheetmetal engine. It was later replaced with a regular cast-iron block.
A few you missed were the Hudson Jet, Nash Rambler, and the King Midget.
King Midget...is that anything like "thundering silence" or "military intelligence?"
Growing up in days of yore, there were still some Willis cars around. One in the neighborhood had the original 4 cylinder. Most I knew of were outfitted with various V8s for the drag strip.
Next door neighbor had a Kaiser, which was somewhat ahead of its time. I think that one was originally called a Kaiser-Frazier or something like that.
A friend had a Packard with a straight 8 Engine. Think it was a 48 or 49 model but not sure. It was straight shift and real quick . For the time! He said Packard engines of that type we used in some aircraft, but with more horse power. He also said his engine had some of the aircraft type modifications. I didn't know enough at that time to ask questions.
See a Studebaker occasionally. The early 50 models were real sleepers, because any self respecting teenager wouldn't be seen driving one. But that V8 would blow the doors off a flat head Ford, which were very popular. A friends mother had one that he could occasionally borrow. The local flat head jockeys stayed out of it's way. They didn't want the stigma of being out run by "Tim's mother's car". The foolish ones were living with the shame.
I occasionally see a "Checker" car in our area. At one time they were plentiful and used almost exclusively as taxi cabs.
Kip
After a date at the Varsity, I'm surprised there was a second date, and yet they still married???
When I am PO'd at my wife, I offer to take her out to the "V" (as it is called) for PUNISHMENT...I offer to drop her off while I go eat steak and offer to pick her up 90 minutes later...
OK...not... :P
But if I ever went to lunch with rocky, I would take him to the Varsity and show him how productive NON-UNION workers can be...oh, what fun that would be...FOR ME!!!!!...
Absolutely!
Seven months later we were married and have been that way longer than most on this forum have been alive.
"But if I ever went to lunch with rocky, I would take him to the Varsity and show him how productive NON-UNION workers can be...oh, what fun that would be...FOR ME!!!!!..."
The guy that started the Varsity was Frank Gordy. He was a Georgia Tech drop out. Varsity started out as a dinky little hot dog stand and eventually grew to be one of the most successful businesses of that type in the world. I've seen it featured several times on various TV shows. Travel channel alone has done several.
Back in the 50s, and probably before that, it catered to Ga Tech students, which were mostly male. Young ladies did not go inside. They stayed in their cars and the guys walked around the parking decks (2) and talked to them. There were also roving police officers to keep down any trouble.
Upper level parking deck was used a lot by those of us that were really proud of our cars. Lots of chrome, the rumpty rump of hot cams and throaty exhaust, special paint and so forth. Many a "drag" race originated there. The expressway "ON" ramp was next to the Varsity exit ramp. Two cars leave the Varsity, ease down the ramp and when the light (night) traffic would allow, then "GO".
The Car Hops worked for tips and actually paid a small fee to cover their uniform jackets and laundering of them. Apparently they made decent money as some had been there for a long time and there was a long waiting list for potential car hops. When a car pulled in off of North Avenue, one of them would either sit on the front fender or stand on the bumper or running board, if available, unless we didn't want them to. . Back then the metal in cars was strong enough to handle the weight without bending, and they could not wear pants with rivets or have anything in the pockets that could scratch paint.
The Varsity is a working example of how hard work, even without a college degree, can pay off. There was no Union to drag it down and the employees tended to work hard and be paid according to their skill level. Their food was as good or better quality as could be found in the fast food arena. Although some folks don't care for their products, apparently many do.
In those days Detroit Iron was as good or better than most anything in the world.
Generally speaking if you saw a younger person in a foreign car at the Varsity, it would be something like a Morris Minor, Triumph, or MG roaster, And it had a good chance of having a chevy small block V8 stuffed under the hood!
>"When I am PO'd at my wife, I offer to take her out to the "V" (as it is called) for PUNISHMENT...I offer to drop her off while I go eat steak and offer to pick her up 90 minutes later..."
And when she goes in and meets up with her friends they just might get a good laugh at how they are being "Punished". :P
Kip
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I appreciate the history, and I have also seen that show on Travel Channel...
I went to Georgia Tech, 1971-1973, and lived in Smith Dorm, which was the dorm on North Ave right at the exit ramp of the Interstate...in essence, I believe I lived in the residential building (not commercial bldg) that was closest to the Varsity...walk out the dorm, cross the bridge, eat at V...yeah, I am as familair with it as anybody...
Points??? Isn't that something you score??? Condensers??? Isn't that something for an air conditioner??? (SSSSHHHHHH, don't let my '65 Wildcat hear me talk like that, I might have to adjust the dwell)
Dwell??? Isn't that something pondered............ :P :P
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/01/breaking-toyota-admits-270-000-cars-have-faul- ty-engines-worldwi/
Oh, and don't forget...nothing, but NOTHING, was metric back then for Big 3...wrenches for nuts and bolts were in fractions of an inch, not some crap like 2.5 millimeters...
I have always said, if we passed a law that said all nuts, bolts, screws, etc had to be SAE/USS measurements or the item could not be sold in the USA, it would take about 3 minutes for Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, VW, Porsche, Audi to change or they would close the next day because if they did not have access to the American market, they would close...
The US market is becoming less and less important over time.
Brass?
Seems that the bolts on the engine oil pan, the tranny oil pan, or maybe both are metric on our 78 Chevy van. Or I just don't have the right American wrench to fit, and a metric just happens to fit.
I've also run across some that were really weird. Don't remember what size they were but they were not the more common 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, 3/4 and so on. More like 17/32 or something as obscure. Standard full numbered metrics didn't fit either. They may have well been one of the half size metrics you speak of. Seems the Chevy oil pressure sending unit has it's own special wrench size also.
Cars were certainly more simple and straight forward to work on, in those days gone by. Seems that when something started to go bad, there was plenty of warning. And the "fix" was generally cheap for those with a small amount of knowledge and some tools
Now days they just seem to "STOP WORKING" and they have to be diagnosed with expensive equipment and the "Fix" can be really expensive. The AC on my sons 99 Grand Cherokee Limited stopped working. The compressor would come on and off, but not the fan inside the car. We spent a lot of time trouble shooting the problem but came up with nothing. On some forum he learned of a "Box" that might be the problem. He purchased such a box. It was about the size of a pack of cigarettes and cost about $160. It fixed the problem. Had to remove a big part of the dash to replace it.
My 78 Van AC/Heater fan stopped working. Pretty simple circuit. Fuse, switch and fan motor. There was power at the fan connector, and a new fan fixed the problem. Seems it was $30 or so.
Kip
As it is built in Germany, can it really be called a Domestic? (built here?)
Where does the money for parts, labor, and profits go? Seems that if it is built in Germany, then German workers get the money, not American workers. Most likely most of the parts are built over seas also. And most of the corporate profits most likely stay with GM on that side of the pond.
Does any of that money reach these shores, or feed an American worker?
No doubt that folks here would buy one and proudly drive their "American" Buick around, when in fact Toyota, Honda, and many others fall more into the "American" car frame work.
Kip
On the Chrysler distributor, you had to set the gap between the rotating element and a stationary part, something like 8 thousandths IIRC...both parts were iron, I think and could be magnetized if a steel feeler gauge came in contact, so brass feeler gauges were used so as not to magnetize the parts...if they became magnetized I think they were quite useless, so brass was inert...
Chrysler was often on the technological forefront before GM and Ford...Chrysler had the first electronic ignition, and they also had the first alternator, around 62 or 63, whereas GM/F did not do away with the generator until 1964 or 1965...going back that far I may be off a few years...
I have never liked metric...maybe you are correct that we are not the gorilla on the world stage anymore, but back in the 70s, 80s, 90s all foreign automakers would die for access to the US market...if we had said "Do it our way or no US sales" they would have converted in a heartbeat...
Now we can't buy anything unles it is sized in liters, millimeters or whatever...I am shocked that we still use miles on highways and gallons for fuel...
Next thing you know, they will take away my vacuum tubes and force me to use transistors...oh, the horror... :mad:
Where does the money for parts, labor, and profits go? Seems that if it is built in Germany, then German workers get the money, not American workers. Most likely most of the parts are built over seas also. And most of the corporate profits most likely stay with GM on that side of the pond.
Does any of that money reach these shores, or feed an American worker?
No doubt that folks here would buy one and proudly drive their "American" Buick around, when in fact Toyota, Honda, and many others fall more into the "American" car frame work.
And, the debate continues.
The reality is this.... Practically ANY auto manufacturer is multi-national today, and they play the currency-exchange game with their cash like any other multi-national (and some national) companies.
Regardless where the company is "based", they don't place all their profits in a bank down the street from the home office. They keep cash stashed all around the world, in order to take advantage of lower-priced production opportunities.
Primarily, Honda makes cars here that sell here. BMW makes cars in Germany that sell in Germany. Americans benefit far more from the $$$ spent by Honda making cars here than from GM making Aveos in Korea.
Manufacturers make the cars (products) where they can maximize their profits. Its just that simple.If its more profitable to import cars/products, they will be imported.
Wal-Mart proves that point.
I think a "do it our way" edict would have created policy in retribution by the Europeans and Japanese that would have put many Americans out of work, too. Globalization, it's all good.
I think a "do it our way" edict would have created policy in retribution by the Europeans and Japanese that would have put many Americans out of work, too. Globalization, it's all good.
I think one thing Jimmy Carter had correct was to convert us to metric. One thing Reagan did wrong is stopping it. And so 30 years later we are one of the last dinosaur countries using this stupid measurement system.
I agree, especially since we remain in "hybrid" mode, using both systems at once.
Pick one or the other, and go with it.
And, since Metric is the system in the widest use, as well as being easier to teach and understand, its the one I would pick as the winner.
Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's just because I am used to it, but I really do not see any advantage to the metric system over our inch, foot, yard, etc system...
Can you explain why metric is REALLY better, or just an alternative system to ours (regardless of how widespread it may be used)...thanks
Do they still have those grease pits Waffle House and Krystal Burger (home of the southern slider) in Georgia? I think there used to be a hamburger chain called Kelly's or something with a scotch colored motif in Augusta back in the 70's too, but I don't remember if they were in Hotlanta - you got grease soppin's by just blotting with a napkin and then squeezing!.
In the little town of Madison, about 60 miles east of Atlanta on Interstate 20, there was a Waffle House...a few years ago, a restaurant broke ground and behold, a second Waffle House was built...so, when you came off the exit ramp, you could turn left or turn right and drive to a Waffle House within a half mile...this in a county of 18,000 and a "city" of about 4,000...
Krystal is also all over, just not as many as Waffle House...their sliders remind me of White Castle burgers up north...
I eat at Waffle House a few times a year (truly good waffles, coffee tastes like battery acid almost identical to Starbucks, iced tea is mediocre), have not eaten at Krystal for about 1000 years...not a misprint...yes, 1000 years...
Well, for one thing it makes more sense, and is much easier to teach and use once you're familiar with it..
Metric...10MM=1CM, 1000 MM= 1 Meter, 100CM=1 Meter. Fractional calculations are easily done in your head, without much training.
SAE...Inches based on 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc. 12 In=1 FT, 3 FT=1 YD.
Same goes for volume and weight measurements...
milligram, gram, kilogram... all based on a base 10 system.
TSP, TBSP, Cup, Pint, Quart, Gallon, etc. All based on a differing number of units (except cups and pints).
Just because something is based on a system of 10 changes nothing...OK, so you can do it in your head...once you learn an inch, mentally dividing it in half is simple, or again in half (1/4) or again to 1/8 or 1/16, etc....to me, the unit of the meter is as arbitrary as the yard, ecept that the meter does divide down by 10 (centimeter, millimeter), but so what???
What is so holy about a liter, which is 1000 milliliters???...again, so what???...why is a tablespoon or a teaspoon such a problem???...why is adding a pint of milk any more difficult than 1/2 a liter???...we have spoons in our silverware drawer...what is so hard to say "add two teaspoons of salt" instead of "add 10 grams of salt?"
a cup is half a pint, a pint is half a quart, a quart is 1/4 gallon...what do we gain by selling milk by the liter...why bother???
To my biased mind, calling the metric system superior is meaningless...I will agree that the math is easier based on "10", but what is so hard about a cup of milk or a half of an inch, as long as you have the correct measuring tool???...I need a ruler to measure half an inch...are you telling me that no one needs a ruler to measure a centimeter, or two centimeters???...
Used to be with a "half-nine" (half inch-9/16ths inch) combination open-end wrench you could almost disassemble a car, since almost all the hex heads took that wrench...what advantage is there to a 15/17 mm wrench (or whatever number of mm's was close)...
I simply see no need for metric...don't forget, homes should be built with 2/4s 16 inches on center for a strong wall...what advantage to say it in centimeters???
A worthless attempted conversion if I ever saw one...
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I simply see no need for metric...don't forget, homes should be built with 2/4s 16 inches on center for a strong wall...what advantage to say it in centimeters???
A worthless attempted conversion if I ever saw one...
I would have to say your last sentence is a 180 from your first one.
Quick... How many thousandths of an inch is 1/64th of an inch?
Now, how many thousandths of a meter is 13 MM?
If that doesn't explain the preference for the metric system over the US system, then nothing will convince you.
Of course, both systems work. One just is much easier to use that the other.
Examine the link and it should be obvious...
http://ts.nist.gov/WeightsAndMeasures/Publications/upload/h4402_appenc.pdf
A worthless attempted conversion if I ever saw one...
Those two statements seem in opposition. Tell me again... how many teaspoons in a cup? (Does it depend on how many people are coming over for tea?) :P
Metric is superior because it's more logical, easier to learn, and more universally accepted. Once we quit teaching the "old system", it will vanish in a generation.
Point of interest: Did you know that a liter of water weighs one kilogram? And a pint of water weights a pound.
Does any of that money reach these shores, or feed an American worker?
And the answer is...
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/02/news/companies/gm_china/index.htm?hpt=T2
From the link...
GM has long been making money in China, despite a lower sales price for the smaller vehicles it sells there. The profits from China have been reinvested to grow its capacity and operations there.
Years of ongoing losses in its home market, and a sharp plunge in sales here starting in 2008, caused the company to file for bankruptcy a year ago. During its reorganization it shed plants, workers, dealerships and much of its debt owed to bondholders. It emerged with the help of a $50 billion bailout from U.S. taxpayers.
Its ability to pay back that bailout will depend upon its planned sale of stock to the public later this year or early next year.
The value of its Chinese operations is expected to be a significant part of the value of that stock when it hits the market.
Unless you've sawn your own, you've likely never seen a 2 x 4 either. The real dimensions are 38 x 89 mm (aka 1-1/2" x 3-1/2"). :P
Buying American means having to own two sets of sockets.
Although you are trying to make a point, nobody would be converting teaspoons to cups. They would use a cup measure to determine a cup of something...
But since you asked, isn't the rubric that there are three teaspoons in a tablespoon and two tablespoons in an ounce and 8 ounces in a cup! Be aware household teaspoons and tablespoons are not actually the scientific sizes they should be for measuring.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In our system for us oldtimers its confusing. I was driving back from Alaska 5 years ago and the darn Ford 250 diesel had the speed in both large readable numbers in our numbers MPG and on the inside of the circle little bitty numbers in METRIC kilometers. The road sign said 45 KM ... Now 45 mph was way too fast for the curve and I had to really jam on the brakes to keep from having an accident........ the only set of rotors I ever warped..
Even as I write this I can't tell you how to convert KM to MPH or even a reasonable guess... or F to C or miles to Kilometers... etc etc.... It just loses me.
Take half and then add an eighth.
45 gives 22 plus 5 would roughly be 27 mph.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,