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Please let me know if the dealer fixes the rattle problem.
this sis the same exploder whose tranny went at 27K miles, the front driveshafts about 1K later, perpetual moaning from the intake system, rear wiper failure, more squeaks and rattles than one could possibly count, non-firestone-recalled wilderness at's, and a rocking driver's seat.
what a pile of JUNK! good riddance. and good luck to the sucker, err... buyer who takes it from the carmax lot for the asking price of $15K.
again, good luck to all those stuck with their own rolling miseries.
ace
Well, I was supposed to have had my new door parts installed today in an attempt to get the popping noise fixed.
I called the dealer yesterday to confirm the parts had arrived, to which the dealer said yes. However, they cannot get me in until the morning of the 24th. They were booked today to the extent that they were finishing up a backlog of vehicles from yesterday (not good; they are over booking themselves).
The dealer said it would take 3 hours to install the window run and the moulding. Good thing Ford is paying for it, especially at $65/hour labor. I do not know the exact description and warranty cost of the parts yet. In the meantime, the popping noise has grown MUCH louder. I can't wait to see if this works. If it does, it will be nice to go back to the good old days of Saturday morning trips to the dealer every 5K miles for simple oil changes and no more unscheduled repairs for a while. If it doesn't work, I don't know how much longer I can put up with the noise.
I'll let you all know next week the results.
Have a great weekend!
Actually (knock on wood) besides a tempermental coolant reservoir the 2000 XLS has been a champ. She's been taking a good beating lately (at least for my trucks) as I have put almost 2000 miles on it in just over 6 weeks.
Anyhow...just completed a round trip run to Boston for a cruise (honeymoon, yeah!) and the drive was great. About 270 miles of highway with fall foliage each way, made just under 19mpg (and that's with vent shades, a hood deflector, and mud flaps...stuff my dealer says lowers the mpg). Could have used a bit more power here and there, but I know the limitations of the 4.0 OHV.
It's good to be back.
thanks
Tom
The 5.0 V6 was an old design engine taken from the LTD Crown Vic. That was a good engine that was pretty powerful, reliable and got pretty much the same mpg as the V6 SOHC. So, they dropped it and replaced it with a new 4.6L V8. The new 4.6L V8 is a new Ford design, and like most new designs, will probably be up to the consumer to be the guinea pigs and road test it for Ford. Personally, I would wait a year until they hammer out some of the bugs in the new Explorer.
Tom
1. Buy a whole replacement mirror from a salvage yard and buy a technical service manual for the 96 Explorer. That should show you how to do it. I thinkthe book is $20 at the dealer. The Haynes book does not really go into the mirror assembly.
2. Buy a single mirror at Autozone or other auto parts store. It should be the type with mounting tape on its back, so you can just stick it on the remaining part of the mirror. Should be at most $25.
Going to go to the Sears hardware store on the way home and try to get the star socket mazman referred to and see if the door latch posts are loose. It certainly couldn't hurt.
Thanks!
PS...Good luck to Ryster on the door rattle...I can't stand rattles in a car.
1. Mark the current position with a marker or paint. "Liquid Paper" works fine as well. Mark both the vertical and horizontal. That way, you can always find the exact position where the bolt was before you started.
2. You may get some benefit from loosening the bolt and moving it (it can move about 1/4" in all directions) either inboard or outboard a bit. Too far in,and the door will not latch properly. Too far out, and the latch will engage, but the door will not be snug enough against the rubber mouldings so that it will rattle. Then tighten, and test if the door closes correctly. It took me several trial and error passes before I got it to a position where the door locked easily and the noise was gone. You don't need to move the post a lot to get a remarkable improvement.
3. My family has this problem, and maybe others do as well. Don't slam the doors! I think that continuously slamming the doors knocked the latch posts out of alignment. That's why, even though the driver's door gets the most use, the problem was on the passeger doors, which get slammed (abused) the most.
Good luck.
It may not be a problem with the alarm or the install. It may just be the way the system works.
I know that I would not be crazy about it if I could deactivate the alarm by snaking a coat hanger thru the door moulding to the door's unlatch mechanism and unlocking the doors and deactivating the alarm.
That's probably why alarms are useless to everyone except for the insurance company discount. Starter and fuel pump cutoff switches are the way to go.
Thanks for the info on the door posts. I checked mine and they are seated very tightly; no looseness.
What did your door rattle sound like? Mine is like a loud popping noise and the driving conditions which set it off can vary. I may get no noise on rough or coarse pavement, but hitting a slight dip on fresh pavement or rippled pavement may set it off. It is a very sharp pop. Is this the noise you were hearing?
I am still not convinced there isn't something loose inside the door (like the power window motor; or the actual mounting of the door latch inside the door.)
If I decide to play around with the latch post some more, how close to the "cradle" on the black bracket should the post be? I Have noticed that the latch post on my driver's door is noticeably farther outside the black bracket "cradle" area than the other doors. It seems hard to believe that there is such a minute tolerance on these posts to cause the door to rattle, but I am ready to try anything!
Also, which Torx socket did you purchase? The hardware store had several. (T50, T51, etc.) Was it 3/8 size?
Thanks!
Ryster
Regarding the noise sound, It was a definite rattle. It was caused by the post being loose and the door was able to latch to it without completely sealing around the rubber seals of the door frame. What rattled was the lock mechanisms and the door itself, since it was able to move within the reach of the lock post.
Before changing any post settings, mark the original locations, both horizontally and vertically, so that you can return the post to that setting later. You may want to experiment with loosening the post on the rattling door, move it inboard a little bit, and tighten.. to see if that helps reduce the noise. The door should be "snugger" against the rubber mouldings. You mayhave to find a good setting thruu trial and error. Too far out and the door will rattle. Too far in and you will not be able to close the door easily.
I would also check the hinges. Is something loose there? Try top test if the door is loose on the hinge, or the hinge has a lot of play up and down (it should not have any). If the door is misaligned, there may be a problem with one or more of the door hinges.
Good luck
Tomorrow I am going to get up in the morning and do some serious car shopping. Dealer inventories are high and interest rates are low; it's now or never. I anticipate having to roll over approx. $1K into the new car to offset some serious depreciation, bit at 0-2.9% it is easier to swallow than at 6-7%.
Thanks to all who have provided advice and recommendations about solving the Explorer issues. Have a great weekend!
Well, if I can't work a trade on something tomorrow then I guess I will just keep searching for the source of the noise.
I periodically had a rattle that sounded like it came from just in front of the firewall as I drove... dealer hinked around with the power distribution box mounts and called it good. wrong. I finally found it when I was putting screen over the radiator to keep the bigger bugs from plugging the fins... left front brace screw to the vinyl cover on the 2000 exploder limited's bumper. screw was crossthreaded in its keeper nut, so I had to use two tools to get that one tight.
now I have another rattle 1 year later, I think it's a similar fastener someplace around the centerline of the covered step on the left side. it's gonna be good warm weather tomorrow, so I'll get a blanket out and start torqueing penny-a-pound body bolts.
I still have to figure out how to get the cupholder tray out of the console and get some vinyl or PVC foam between it and the rest of the console, there is an occasional squeak.
no other untoward noises in my vehicle, just these. the console didn't make any noise until its first -20 days of last winter.
moral: plastic stinks, big slabs of welded steel hold up better. imagine how PO'ed I would be if I'd gotten some little sardine can of a car
Bioman3
This is a great idea! Thanks! Now I will have to search for a stethoscope. Maybe I can find an adequate toy stethoscope at Toys R Us or something. Real ones can run $80+ from what I understand and it really shouldn't be my responsibility to devote hours of my time and money when Ford should pay for it all under warranty. However, sometimes you have to literally hold the dealer's hand to get stuff done correctly ("check part A", "tighten part B", etc.)
Let me run this by all of you - I notice that the roof rack rail (not the side bar) on the driver's side does not fit as snugly/flush as the passenger side. Do you think this could cause a popping noise? When I push on it, it clunks against the roof. Seems like a longshot, I know. I am contemplating going home tonight, unscrewing it, and attempting to remount it. It looks as though it uses standard Philips head screws. What do you guys think?
Otherwise on Friday I will take it in and tell them to check the door latch post to make sure it is properly adjusted; make sure the latch itself is properly secured, check to make sure the door lock solenoid is clipped on securely, check to make sure the power window motor is mounted securely, etc.
Thanks to all for your helpful suggestions! I do like the truck. I truly desire to keep it; just need that noise eliminated!!!
I'll keep you posted on any and all developments
God Luck!!
Bioman3
The dealer is starting to remember me and my truck. I guess that is what happens when you are there every 14 days or so
In any event, they are going to do more troubleshooting to see if they can properly diagnose and repair the noise. They admitted these noises are hard to find and push come to shove they could keep the Explorer for "a few days" and give me a car to use if that is what it takes. They are genuinely interested in getting it fixed, so I am pleased with them for that. They are probably anxious to get it fixed so I leave them alone
I'll let you know what transpires from today's appointment.
Yesterday's appointment only added more fuel to the fire.
I got a call mid afternoon from the dealer telling me they have no idea what the problem is. They acknowledge there is definitely something making the noise, but they just can't fix it. I know have an appointment on 11/20 to take the truck back for "a few days". They give me a loaner and they call Ford directly for assistance with fixing my truck. They also said they "won't give it back to me until it is completely fixed". I asked what the odds are it would be fixed even with Ford's intervention to which they responded "we have had cars here for WEEKS that needed Ford's help, but they were eventually fixed". Wow...that's comforting.
So, I go to pick up my truck only to have it given back to me with a severely twisted seatbelt, a broken trim piece, and a door panel that was not put back on correctly, in addition to the usual smudges of grease all over the panels. They were "kind" enough to fix the seatbelt on the spot, but had to order a new piece of trim to be installed at the next appointment. I didn't have the patience to deal with the ill-fitting door panel. As usual, after every appointment I have, I went home and cleaned the interior myself.
I am so disgusted with the level of service I am getting. The dealer is making an effort, yeah great. They are also being careless. I want out of this truck desperately. Looked at a Mercury Cougar this morning...guess what...the driver's door creaked. I must have lousy luck with cars or something. EVERY car I have ever owned has developed a rattle or creak in at least one of the doors (they all developed dash rattles regardless of how long I owned the car).
It is time for me to dump this nightmare truck. Ideally I would like a Toyota, Nissan or Honda but they do not have special financing right now. The only reason I have been looking at a domestic is to be able to get special financing to get out of the Explorer. It has a trade-in value of around $15K and I still owe $19.8K. Even with $3K down I would have to roll over ~$2K which is much easier to do at low financing rates.
The moral of this story is no more Ford products. Quality is not Job One; nor is Customer Service.
Have you tried aiming higher on the Ford Co. food chain? Sometimes that has a miraculous influence on getting problems resolved.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Regarding getting angry.. May I suggest don't. It may not help the situation, and it only raises your blood pressure. I personally have found that I "get more flies with honey than a flyswatter." I know that you just want to drive the truck through the front window of the dealership .. but that action will not help you. I have found that people respond to anger with anger, and at that point they stop listening to you and probably wont work with you to solve the probelm. You want them to act on your behalf to fix it, not scream back at you.
Before going to the boss, or threatening them or writing to the Attorney General of your state, I would:
1. Put in in perspective. The popping noise is a comfort issue.. not a drivability issue. These mechanics are usually good at finding problems with the major systems, so it is probably not something major that you have to worry about a wheel falling off. Do you want to take a hit of $3K or more just to get out of a vehicle with a pop or squeak?
2. Is there another dealer that you can bring it to?
3. Tell the Dealer's Service MANAGER or Shop Foreman how you feel before you go to this guy's boss and complain about him. I have found from personal experience that these guys are pretty helpful and many times do not know what their underlings are doing or saying. This also gives you more ammo when you have to step up the ladder higher. Play the role of the nice guy getting the runaround. You can always go to the boss later.
3. There is a Ford Regional Representative you can contact, you can get that number from the dealer or by calling Ford corporate.
4. If you want to go the lemon law route, then you have to have documented that you have been to the dealer at least 4 times for the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. A lot of the service managers are wise to this, so they word the complaint differently each time. You have to request forms from your State's BBB or Attorney General. You may get some mileage out of Ford Arbitration.
5. A heart bypass can get very expensive, as can ulcers and high blood pressure. Dont let this get to you. Yeah, it is frustrating, but it is only a machine... and you can sell it or trade it at any time if you find it is making you sick.
Good luck, man. I've been where you are.
tidester
Host
SUVs
"1. Put in in perspective. The popping noise is a comfort issue.. not a driveability issue. These mechanics are usually good at finding problems with the major systems, so it is probably not something major that you have to worry about a wheel falling off. Do you want to take a hit of $3K or more just to get out of a vehicle with a pop or squeak?"
It is not just a matter of a "pop or squeak". The noise is getting progressively worse to the point where I can not only hear the noise but feel something loosening up underneath me as well. Almost like the chassis or frame has a problem. Then again, it could be my brain responding to negative stimuli (because the noise is loud, my brain is processing a feeling with it) My personality is such that I simply have no patience or tolerance for such noises. There is also no concrete evidence that it is not becoming a driveability issue. The truck didn't do it initially, but now it does. If it turns out to be a weakened or bent frame I certainly want no part of a vehicle with such a defect. The vehicle has never been abused or off road so the frame should not have weakened. In fact, I go out of my way with any car I drive to avoid pothole strewn roads or very rough roads to prevent these types of noises from developing in the first place (that is how much I hate squeaks/rattles/pops.)
"2. Is there another dealer that you can bring it to?"
There are other dealers in the area, however their reputation is no better than the dealer I currently use. For example, my parents take their Mountaineer to a different dealer. It has a very bad idle problem (stutters and almost dies). They looked at it, cleaned the MAF sensor, and said it was fixed. My parents picked it up and it was still idling poorly. It goes back tomorrow for the second trip for the same problem. We are plagued by poor dealer service, regardless of manufacturer, in this area. Seems it is either an industry wide problem or we just have bad luck. In any event, I now have to get this dealer to undo all of the mistakes they made on Friday before I can start using another dealer. They still owe me a new trim piece to replace the one they broke, they need to reattach the door panel correctly, and I also found that they must have messed with the driver's seat belt as the screw that attaches the seat belt retractor unit to the B-pillar is not fully tightened. The screw is about one inch out of its hole and the washer is just sort of floating around on the screw. This, in my eyes, is a definite safety issue.
"3. Tell the Dealer's Service MANAGER or Shop Foreman how you feel before you go to this guy's boss and complain about him. I have found from personal experience that these guys are pretty helpful and many times do not know what their underlings are doing or saying. This also gives you more ammo when you have to step up the ladder higher. Play the role of the nice guy getting the runaround. You can always go to the boss later."
The shop foreman has been actively involved in getting my vehicle fixed. He has driven the truck with me in it to hear the noise and has been interacting with the mechanic and service advisor at my various appointments. In fact, he was the one that approved the supposed second fix on the third appointment. It has been my experience with vehicles in the past that contacting the higher ups gets nothing resolved whether it be a sales or service related issue. In fact it tends to make problems worse, as you suggest. At this point I think they are intentionally doing things to my truck as their way of demonstrating they are frustrated and sick of dealing with me and my truck.
"3. There is a Ford Regional Representative you can contact, you can get that number from the dealer or by calling Ford corporate."
This is a possibility depending on what the lawyer says. I have the phone number and address of my region's representative.
"4. If you want to go the lemon law route, then you have to have documented that you have been to the dealer at least 4 times for the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. A lot of the service managers are wise to this, so they word the complaint differently each time. You have to request forms from your State's BBB or Attorney General. You may get some mileage out of Ford Arbitration."
In this state is the same problem with no resolution after 3 tries. My truck has been back 5 times already. I have the repair orders and the dealer uses the same wording on each one. If the lawyer thinks I have a valid case, he will do all of the investigative work and filing for me.
"5. A heart bypass can get very expensive, as can ulcers and high blood pressure. Don't let this get to you. Yeah, it is frustrating, but it is only a machine... and you can sell it or trade it at any time if you find it is making you sick."
This is true, but again my personality is such that I cannot just accept it. That is what the dealer wants me to do. If I back down and just live with it, I am letting Ford get away with selling me a $30K truck with an acknowledged problem that they won't/can't fix. Trading it is the same thing. At this point, I just want the vehicle fixed properly or replaced. I also shouldn't have to take a potentially $6K hit simply because Ford or the dealers do not want to deal with me. They sold me the truck, they need to make good on it.
Again thanks for all of your suggestions and advice. I have had a history of poor vehicles and service and this one certainly takes the cake. I do not think it is too much to ask to have the truck fixed properly. When it reaches the point where all of my paid time-off this year has been devoted to dealing with this vehicle (which it has so far) that is a definite problem. Granted, we all work to be able to afford the vehicle that takes us there. I do not work to also use my earned paid time-off from work to have the same vehicle serviced on a regular basis. One, maybe two, unscheduled service appointments a year is one thing. But a problem resulting in the vehicle going back 5 or more times for the same unresolved problem is unacceptable. Not to mention that I am becoming mentally tired and stressed to the point where I have no desire to shop for a new vehicle which should, to some degree, be fun to do.
Anyway, I submitted a lemon law claim, and after a couple of loud arguments with the Sales and Service managers of my dealer, a win/win situation arose. My dealer offered to take my truck in trade for a 2000 model at a LOW cost. For my '99 and $3000 I got a 2000 brand new XLS. They wanted $6000 for the XLT. This included tax, title, etc.
So I don't know what your cash situation is, but I read you are actively car shopping. With the low (no) financing going on, you could probably work something out with the dealer for a 2001 leftover or 2002 Explorer. Just a thought. PS...so far the 2000 is a champ.
I own my truck, and I plan to own it for hopefully another 5-6 years. It is a 2000 XLS with the OHV engine, 4wd, auto tranny. I currently have almost 18000 miles on it, mixed driving, maybe more like city (a lot of stop and go in central NJ). At what mileage/time do you guys recommend getting the tranny serviced? When getting the tranny done, how extensive a service (eg. fluid change vs. gasket work). How often do you change the coolant and flush the radiator? How about changing plugs? Also, what is it with these engine flushes? All the dealers around here push them. Thanks for your input...
tidester
Host
SUVs
Oil = every 3-4 months, or 3,500- 4,000 miles
Coolant = Flush every 2 years or 24,000 miles
Tranny = Change fluid and filter (std dealer svc does not change the filter) every 12,000 miles
Hoses = every 4 years, whether they need it or not
Serpentine belt = Change every 2 years.
Plugs = every 30,000 miles
Plug wires = every 4 years, whether they need it or not
Fuel Filter = Every 2 years or 24,000 miles
Lube door hinges and locks every spring and fall.
Inspect brake pads every 3 months. Replace every 20,000 miles or as needed.
Tires = Inspect tires every 3 months and replace at 5 yr or 50,000 miles. Check air pressure every month.
Add Chevron Techron to the gas every spring.
Add drygas (gas line antifreeze) every snowfall or ski trip.
Hope this helps.
Good luck.
I have a 95 Explorer 4WD. About a year ago I had a "fluttering" sound in the front end that I thought was a wheel bearing. I took it to the dealership and the tech knew immediately what it was. They lubed the "front driveshaft double carden seal". Sound gone. Now a year later it is back and I need to take it back in to get it lubricated again.
What is a double carden seal? I am technically literate, but I don't know where this seal is and what function it performs. Is this no big deal and something that just needs to be lubed occasionally, or is it something I should keep my eye on? I have considered dumping the vehicle before it starts costing me money. Is this a sign of potential future problems?
Thanks in advance.
If you want to see what your Explorer's Double Cardan driveshaft look like, check out the Haynes Repair Manual for the Ford Explorer.
Good luck
Get another opinion.
The V8 is the same engine in the Crown Vic.. and there are a lot of those out there... I am sure that if all of them lost a quart of oil every 1K miles, then cop cars and taxis would be littered all over the place.