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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    As for comfort the Fit and Civic really don't have that much over the Smart.

    Entirely subjective, and is going to vary from person to person. I haven't driven any of those cars, but have sat in them. I find the Civic to be a bit tight for my needs, but tolerable. Main issue is legroom. The Fit is worse for me in that regard, plus with the way the sides curve in, it forces me to lean inward. As for the Smart? Total crap, at least for my needs. The seat is too low AND doesn't go back far enough. I can take one or the other. If a seat is high enough, that will help offset poor fore-aft travel, and if a seat goes back far enough, doesn't matter to me how low it is, as long as I can still reach the dashboard. But the Smart is bad in both regards. Also the seat feels small and thinly padded. And the door panel is too close for comfort. My comfort, at least.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    While the Smart uses premium fuel it is still more efficient than any non hybrid out there dollar for dollar.

    Premium costs 20 cents a gallon more around here and that has been constant. So RUG is 'X' then Premium is X+.2. Now RUG around here is going for about $2.70 so Premium is $2.90. Plugging those figures into the MPG ratings of the Smart against the nest best non hybrid it will cost a half cent less to drive a mile. Now that may not seem like much but add it up over time it will add up, especially when gas starts going up and you save even more money per mile.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I fit in the seat of the Smart very well and I am over 6 foot 2, had no problems. As for the door panel being to close I felt that it was closer in the Civic.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Well all I can say is that, at 6'3", for me it sucked. Your mileage may vary. Also, keep in mind I'm used to bigger, more comfortable cars anyway, so for me, any of these cars is going to be a compromise. Although I'll admit, I have been mildly considering a Civic. My Intrepid got whacked the other day, hit-and-run in a parking lot. I'll find out tomorrow if it's a total or not. Right now my thoughts are all over the map as far as what kind of car I want. Part of me wants to go smaller and more economical, but then part of me says hell, I don't really put that many miles on these days, so why not go with something bigger and more comfy?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But then you're only getting half the car compared to a Yaris or Fit, and it costs more.

    How long would it take to recover that extra up-front cost?

    At half a cent per mile, in 100,000 miles you would only save $500.

    There's no way you'd ever break-even.

    I can see it being easier to park in tight spaces, but that's about it.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Fortunately, in cars, as in life, not everything comes down to money. Some folks love SMART's; others don't see the point. Doesn't have to be logical. That's what makes life so interesting. If you don't get it, that's perfectly O.K..............just walk away and leave it to those that do. With me, it's Prius, G-Whiz and a lot of Ferrari's but others have different opinions. If we all liked the same things it would be terribly, terribly boring zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    G-Whiz, by the way, is a city car that makes the SMART look almost gargantuan and sumptuous - and a paragon of safety. Couple of links below. Enjoy, but no laughing, (oh, alright then, if you must). The second link is from The Times, London, in 2007 but the later models are not really any better. Have never seen one outside of London.

    G-Whiz

    Clarkson on G-Whiz
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's true, and they draw so much attention they make sense for small businesses merely as an advertising tool.

    In fact, most of the ones I've seen are used that way.

    I just saw that episode again, they were re-running it, and I crack up every time. I love how it fits in the elevator, but has no reverse so he has to ask someone to pull him out! :D
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    a parking lot hit and run a 'total'? either way, it sucks.
    do some research and find out what the retail for you car is.
    you want to try to 'bump' the offer you are going to get for your car.
    gas prices are going to go up over the next few years, and you already have 'big' covered.
    the next few months are a good time of years to buy, if you need to.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Ah the fit starts at $14,750 the Yaris at $12,200 the Smart at $11,990 so there is no extra up front cost, it actually comes in less from the start.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    how's that Smart treat you in the Chicago snow? Have you guys had snow yet?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    I just saw that episode again, they were re-running it, and I crack up every time. I love how it fits in the elevator, but has no reverse so he has to ask someone to pull him out!

    The car in that episode of TG, (where Clarkson drives it around the inside of the BBC building ?), is, in fact, a Peel; built in the Isle of Man in the 1960's. The G-Whiz looks like it but is current production............and just as potentially unsafe.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't options cost more, though?

    And like the Yaris, it doesn't come with much. I think even A/C is optional.

    I guess I'm thinking the convertible one, but I optioned it lightly and got to about $18 grand for a reasonable level of content.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I guess I'm thinking the convertible one, but I optioned it lightly and got to about $18 grand for a reasonable level of content.

    For that money I'd take a Civic or a Mazda 3 (ya know, a real car) instead of a SMART. Although, at $14k I'd take a base Elantra, Versa, or Focus instead of a lower-level smart.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Similarly optioned, price is going to be about the same for all three, so it basically comes down to whether you'd rather have the back seat or the extra mpg.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Or if we could have diesels brought over to the US - both!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To me, a convertible can't be replaced by a non-convertible.

    I guess it is the cheapest drop-top you can get. A Miata would probably be about $4 grand more similarly equipped.

    Back in April, though, Mazda put a $5000 rebate on leftovers 2008 models, making them cheaper than a Smart! :surprise:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    The Smart really isn't a convertible, though...
    image

    Slide the back window open on my '85 Silverado, and you probably have more of an open-air experience than with that thing. Or any car with a sunroof.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It looks much more open from a top view.

    About 2/3rds open:

    image
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I own a red open-top vehicle that is about as powerful as the smart. Here's a pic of an identical model.

    image

    Nothing like the wind in your hair at 3.7 miles an hour.

    :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I have a similar model, although mine came with the towing package...
    image

    And mine's a bit more...ahem...vintage. :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Bummer about the Intrepid Andre. You could bring it out here and park it next to my project car (also a convertible).

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess yours would compete with the rumored Smart SUV. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Sweet rims.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm storing the hemi in the garage out of the weather. :)

    Here comes Mercedes:

    "Under its tentative plan, Mercedes would import by 2012 at least one of four next-generation compact models it will start selling in Europe in late 2011, Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. These diminutive Mercedes would go head to head with an expanding field of premium small cars in the U.S., including the A3 from Volkswagen AG's Audi unit and BMW AG's 1 series and Mini Cooper."

    Mercedes Plans a Small-Car Volley (Wall St. Journal)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    These things were surprisingly popular in Germany, given their price premium over other small cars (pic is from the big MB dealer adjacent to the MB museum):

    image

    I don't know if that would translate to NA though.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    image

    Now, this is what ya need to replace the Intrepid with. You'd be styling with the best of them!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dirtyharrywkdirtyharrywk Member Posts: 9
    That car should be called STUPID. I have a ridng lawnmower bigger then a Stupid car. What kind of idiot would drive a car that small and drive it on I290? You are risking your life driving that car, it is way to small.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    Well, it at least offers more protection than a motorcycle. :P

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Member Posts: 182
    To each their own, dhw...You don't dig the Smart? Great! Speak for yourself. Drive your tank or whatever it is that gets you around and leave those drive a Smart alone. Anytime you get in an automobile and drive you're always at risk, no matter how large or gruesome your ride may be sizewise.

    Peace!<- :shades: -
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    What kind of idiot would drive a car that small and drive it on I290?

    Two responses to the same question:

    Consider that its a car designed for urban use, primarily.
    The same idiot who is single and buys a Suburban despite living and commuting in NYC.
  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Member Posts: 182
    So true, graduate!

    How about the oaf who drives a Escalade solo, to impress as a status symbol?

    Oy...

    "What fools these mortals be"...

    Peace!<-AladdinSane<- :shades: -
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I said this from the beginning, but cars that small need a little help to sustain sales in the USA. I'm thinking open access to car pool lanes or free/reduced parking, something like that.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'm thinking open access to car pool lanes or free/reduced parking, something like that.

    I'm with you only if the mileage benefit is there (33/41 enough to do that?). That's a 6mpg improvement over the comfy Corolla.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Well, presuming you do mostly highway driving and get 35 with the Corolla, 41 with the Smart, over the course of 10,000 miles, you save about 42 gallons of fuel.

    Plus, in the real world you can probably beat those figures without too much trouble. Before the EPA dumbed the numbers down, the Corolla was rated at 38 highway. I don't know what the Smart would have been rated at, as I don't think it became available until after the EPA started with those lower numbers. But if you could get 45 mpg out of a Smart, you'd still save about 42 gallons per 10K miles, versus a Corolla.

    Might be worth it for some people, but not for me. (although I'd prefer a Civic to a Corolla...just feels a bit more comfy to me)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not just the mileage, but mostly the space it occupies.

    It takes only half the parking spot, so it could pay half.

    Also, motorcycles can go on HOV lanes with just 1 rider.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I got 42 mpg for a yearly average in mine, and it will hit 50 mpg on straight highway cruises in the summer.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Not just the mileage, but mostly the space it occupies. It takes only half the parking spot, so it could pay half.

    I can see myself being a laughing stock for suggesting that at just about any paid parking structure/lot here in Birmingham, AL. I usually agree with ya juice (on just about everything, really!), but I don't here. The Smart doesn't have any similar sized friends to give the other "half" of a parking spot to; all spaces tend to be the same size. Those that aren't are still big enough for your Sentrollavic, which get to pay full price.

    I like your concept, and its logical, if not feasible where I live.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    The Smart doesn't have any similar sized friends to give the other "half" of a parking spot to; all spaces tend to be the same size.........

    That's true and here in AngloEUroland you pay for the space regardless of the vehicle size. However, you could park your SMART in the middle of a space and help avoid the usual car-park dings caused by other drives opening their doors rather too enthusistically - and, oh, how I hate the parents who let their beloved offspring literally kick open their car door so it bounces of the adjacent car's bodywork...................then walk away :mad:

    My only gripe with the SMART is the hope it gives me in crowded car-parks. You know the situation; cruising around and no apparent spaces then, whooppee you look down one of the lines and there's a space. Boy I'm good; everyone else has missed that one ! So, on the gas, (well, diesel), and head down the row. Set up for a rapid turn in, (that's rather a relative term in a Volvo S60; akin to nipping into a berth with a supertanker), and Darn It, there's a SMART parked all the way into the space and you're now faced with having to manoeuver out again and look like an idiot. Recently had this at an airport. Saw the "space" thought nah, it's half full of SMART or somesuch, and just cruised down the row feeling really smug. But, it was an empty space and the guy tailgating me got it. Aaaaaarrrrggghhhh. These things should have a flagstaff on the roof to identify them. :)

    O.K., enough of non-rant. Things not to do, coffee to drink, time to waste. Gosh it's hard being retired. :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    That's true and here in AngloEUroland you pay for the space regardless of the vehicle size.

    The Smart isn't going to do you much good in any type of metered parking, or any situation where you have parking spaces that are marked by lines. In some situations, having a Smart might even make things worse. For instance, if you parallel park in a lined space, having plenty of room on either end, someone else could come along, park way over the line. You might still have enough room to get out, but then that space would be unuseable for anything but another Smart, or maybe a motorcycle. So, not a bad thing for the Smart owner, but bad in the overall scheme of things.

    However, there are a lot of places where you can parallel park at the curb, but the spaces are not marked. Often with these, people get lazy and leave too much room between themselves and the car in front or behinds, and over time as cars come and go, you end up with gaps that are unusable for the most part. But might be just big enough to get a Smart in.

    And yeah, I hate that, when you see what you think is an open space, but it turns out there's some small car (not always a Smart...I've seen vans and SUVs successfully hide much larger cars) or a motorcycle pulled way up in there. If I had a small car or motorcycle, I'd think that it would be best to position it so other drivers DO see it. Otherwise you run the risk of someone just whipping into the parking spot and smacking into you. And I know from experience, that if that happens, most likely they're not going to admit their guilt and leave a note on your now-smashed parked car. :mad:
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I did suggest that to a parking lot at the beach once with my MINI because it really doesn't take up a whole spot and they don't have defined spots in their lot anyway.

    I was like hey this car doesn't take up a full spot so you shouldn't' charge me full price. They wouldn't go for it and my wife was giving me the, 'stop trying to negotiate everything,' look so I dropped it and just paid full price.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    There are a few places by me that have diagonal parking where they have one very last spot which is pie wedge shaped and no car can really fit into one except a Smart.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I have had that happen too, but with other small cars parked far enough into the space that you don't see them until you are right at the parking space.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do they even have a dealership in Birmingham? ;)

    :D

    No, I'm thinking urban as in big city - New York, Washington, Chicago, LA. The type of place where parking costs more than $20 per day.

    My work garage has some half-sized spaces that would fit a motorcycle or a Smart, but not my Miata. They could add those spaces and mark them for Smart cars only.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591
    Looks like a smart is 6 inches longer than a Goldwing and gets better mileage. One could make an argument that if a GW gets to ride in carpool lanes, than a smart should too? I don't know :confuse:

    That said, I don't think carpools probably need anymore eligibility from anything...they're already clogged with too many Prius here in SF anyhow...can't wait til they pull that eligibility.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    ............you end up with gaps that are unusable for the most part. But might be just big enough to get a Smart in.

    I have seen SMART's parked tail-in to the kerb, i.e. at 90deg to the kerb, when there was only "half" a space between two vehicles in un-metered parking. Technically illegal here in USSGB but can still be seen from time to time. Pick the right cars to park between and the SMART doesn't stick out at all .........although driving out of the space could be, er......interesting. :blush:
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    I'd be none to happy to be wedged into my space by a 'smart' driver :mad:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the Mazda2 and Fiesta are both debuting at LA, which opens on Wednesday does it? I will be on-line that day for sure, I'm very curious if there will be any additional details available.

    The AN article says the Fiesta is expected to be available by summer next year. 4-door sedan and 5-door hatch. No 3-door. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that occurred near my place last night has provided additional evidence that it's not so simple as "big wins" in big-vs-small collisions in the real world.

    In this case a Mini Cooper going well in excess of the speed limit broadsided a Nissan Quest minivan, and while the Mini's passenger compartment was completely intact, the Quest was mostly destroyed.

    The results were tragic for the family occupying the Quest, so I won't go into any further details, but there are so many variables in any collision that to simply write off subcompacts because of their size is truly misguided. A well-designed subcompact can just as easily be the better place to be in a bad crash.

    http://www.ktvu.com/news/21753157/detail.html

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Do they even have a dealership in Birmingham?

    I think our Mercedes / Infiniti dealer now sells them.

    "The SMART is too small for you? That's ok; let me show you the S550..."

    :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D
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