What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

Kirstie_H · February 2011

If you bought a new small car in January, a reporter wants to talk with you. Please email pr@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information and a few words about your new car and your trade-in, if you had one.
Thanks,
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Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

ateixeira · February 2011

Checked one out at the Philly Auto Show, and gotta say, I'm impressed.

It had the longest lines of any car at the auto show, longer than any Porsche, for instance.

I loved it. Loads of personality. Cheap plastics, but great design. And the ergonomics are better than a MINI.

The price is right, so expect to see lines at dealers and maybe even markups until demand dies down a bit.

alltorque · February 2011

Glad to see that the baby Fiat is getting attention - it has quite a following here in the UK, and the rest of Europe. In my opinion it makes the MINI look rather bloated and bland. The 500 is a great little car. The Abarth 500 is just fun on 4 wheels and the Abarth 500 EssEss is plain mental; think original Mini Cooper S sort of fun.

Think the 5mpg delta between EU and USA mpg figures is probably down to different test regimes. The EU test cycles provide very optimistic figures which virtually no-one ever achieves - unless they have a very light right foot. General motoring press feeling is that the EU figures overstate economy by up to 8% in the worst case.

Purely for interest I've just looked at my average mpg for the past 48000 miles. If I convert from mpUKg to mpUSg I arrive at a figure of 30.09 and the figure is actual fuel used as I log every fill-up and mileometer reading. I'm quite happy with that as I'm driving an '06 Volvo S60 D5 with the 6-spd Geartronic 'box. Apologies for wandering off topic.

ateixeira · February 2011

We're not off topic, there is nothing wrong with a 500 Abarth subcompact.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

and feeling like just sticking with my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS I see one of these on the net and get warm and fuzzly feelings deep down inside.

I am now in Kellogg, ID, home of Dave Smith Motors. Who or what is Dave Smith Motors? Google them. They are the world's highest volume Chrysler dealer and the U.S.'s 3rd largest volume seller of GM's. Kellogg, ID, my new home, has a whopping population of 2,167!

Maybe I'll start hanging out there when Chrysler builds their version of the 2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta and sends them to Idaho. That is a plan, because I will get the best Mopar deal anywhere in the Pacific Northwest.

2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta

nippononly · February 2011

Th real question, iluv, is when will Ford get serious and offer us a Fiesta SVT like the Fiesta RS in Europe (with a 6-speed manual of course!)?

Is there any hope??!!

I can't wait to get me a 500 Abarth to try out.....

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

how do you like one of these?

Ford Focus EV

I still may trade for a 2011 Ford Fiesta 5-speed manual, hatch or sedan. I can't seem to get the cool looking car out of my head. See fintail, I like European cars! After all, the NA Fiesta design is from the European-designed Ford Fiesta bodystyle. I just have a feeling I'd have a ball with it's stick in this Idaho panhandle snow.

I finally scored a job in the Pacific NW, only it's the inland Pacific NW. Only 311 miles from Seattle, and I'm staying put and paying bills here till the day I perish. This whirlwind tour of the western chunk of the U.S. has come to an end. Time to pop in ZZ Top's 'Mexican Blackbird', make myself a tall Margarita and start scheming to get my new Fiesta. :P

It's pining at me like a ticking timeclock.

2011 Ford Fiesta S sedan

I think it is every bit the car the '65 Ford Mustang was for Ford. I know, different era, but like the '65 Stang, this car was carefully planned out and attention to detail is evident in its design from front to back.

I may just get a hatchback, if the right car at the right time comes along. It may be a few years down the road until I get one.

Or see if Mitsubishi is still going to build the hybrid Lancer GTS like they mentioned a couple of years ago. If they do, that may indeed be my next new car.

Or see what Chrysler decides to do about building their version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta. If they do build it I'll have it coming right here to Kellogg, ID, and tell ya what, if they give it a long Warranty I might just bite. If it's gonna be this [non-permissible content removed]-footing 5 year and 60,000 mile crap then I'm staying away like Roger Earl would from a Justin Bieber concert.

Lake City Ford of Coeur d' Alene, ID, has 9 Fiesta's in stock. 3 are sedans, 6 are hatches and only one of the sedans is manual-trannied. It is tuxedo black metallic and is priced around $16,600 before tax and license.

They also have a hatchback priced at around $16,600 before t&l that is red and a stick. If I went there Saturday to deal that would be the one I'd pick. Too hot to handle, baby, hotter than any Pittsburgh Stealer QB that gets so boozed up on Super Bowl week that he doesn't know his receivers from a hole in the ground. Have to go with the Pack this weekend, Pittsburgh is alway a loss-leader in my book. Bunch of whiny dorks, that they are.

I'd rather watch Bab-wa Waa Waa sit around and talk about her surgeries than watch a Super Bowl with the Pittsburgh Stealers involved. What is the U.S. coming to?

Super Bowl 40 was Seattle's to lose and the bought-off referees valued their pocketbooks more than the integrity of the game. Or the NFL front office orchestrated the whole thing for the almighty Yankee greenback, or a consortium of those two plus some important Lost Wages bookies all got together for a cluster of insane fun. At the better team's expense.

I really should totally boycott the NFL entirely.

stickguy · February 2011

glad you made it back to the PNW. You working in Spokane now?

stever · February 2011

Yeah, inquiring minds. You really did wind up in Kellogg eh?

Some nice country up that way. Plenty close enough to take whatever you wind up with over Highway 12. Over and over again. :-)

I think the whole town of Kellogg would have disappeared without Dave Smith. Sounds like he has cars stashed in empty lots all over town.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

this man does new GM cars so well I'm thinking of giving up healthcare work ta sell cars. There's more know-it-alls in healthcare than there are Matt Lauer's on the Today show. I'm here in Kellogg, ID, and if they want every last penny of mine they can sure have it. I've found my home, this place is gorgeous. The corporate tards running American business have beat me silly....I'm dun-faooorrr. Take it all, you morons. I'm never movin' again, this insecure nation of has-be-gone's have taken their toll on me. You're right. Right.

Yes, we must buy an American car. You're right. I have Dave Smith of Kellogg, ID, right here in my backyard to vouch for you.

I've found my New World Order Home. We drove over to Coeur d' Alene today and it was beautiful. Who needs the spoils of Seattle when you can have the beautiful panhandle of Idaho.

I'm dun runnin', boys. Oh, do take one more of my dimes, you stupid low-life greedy American know-it-alls. Cowards.

I'm home. Never again will I move and if Pittsburgh's Stealers win again I'll eat my Mitsubishi, panel by panel. Circuit by circuit.

Someone stole the guts of America. Ask the stupid Boeing upper management when Airbus scared them. Idiots.

I'm moving to Norway. This country is full of stupid sell-outs and cowards.

I'll stay and give my corporate life to the know-it-all, greedy, stumpheads that run American business. I'm outta here as soon as I can leave. The greedy dorks have ruined America and if the lesson Captain Smith of the Titanic wasn't enough learnin' for you then you're not worth savin'.

Put ZZ Top's 'Mexican Blackbird' on and hand me another Margarita. The greedy have ruined this once proud country. Have your reward in full so stupid slobs. I'm taking the first train out of this country. And never coming back.

Watch him. He's crazy. Ewwww. Better have Donald Trump speak some truth in to him. :sick:

Now I understand my Dad so much more fully. The money loving know-it-alls that run this country will rot so nicely in hell. Be gone with you all.

And if you think I'm kidding I invite you over to Kellogg, ID, to talk face-to-face with me. Dad was a very, very smart hombre.

Tighten the Arizona border walls, Barack. It will do us all good.

If American business executives had some bal*& it would do us some real good. Instead they wimp out and lay off people by the thousands. I give up. Take my money, you stupid ill-willed incompetent morons. You win.

We all lose.

stever · February 2011

Chill and drive down to White Bird, hit the dirt roads going west up into Hells Canyon. Miles of one lane, thousands of switchbacks, steep drop-offs, elk and unlimited vistas. Amazing place to tool around in. Take extra food and water for when you get lost. :shades:

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

my memory still works! In 1981 on one of our Boeing vacations I drove us down the hill heading south from north of the city of Boise. We went down what is it Whitebird Hill, too. It would've made a great nighttime picture, the view we had of Boise. Gorgeous! I'll take my Jeep Grand Cherokee bought from Dave Smith Motors and head on down there. That is a sharp looking SUV. I was on a rant that would rival one of Gord Downie's of The Tragically Hip last night. Sorry about that, steve. You would be right to ban my last post there if you saw fit and I'd be an idiot to get mad about that. The large audience listening was captive, and, well, you know! Courage, my word, that's right, it doesn't matter. I wish The Tragically Hip would play Spokane this year. Robin Trower is still penned in to play The Knitting Factory in Spokane on March 10th, 2011. Maybe I'll go hear him play, he's phenomenal on that toned-up Stratacaster. Just awesome.

You're right, Idaho is gorgeous. Are you and your wife still over in the UP of Michigan? Also gorgeous country. I was going on and on to my wife about corporate America and the dorks that run it to her for a while last night while we were seeing the City of Coeur d' Alene. That city has more thrift stores per capita than any city I have ever seen! I saw one nice looking CD shop (ma and pa type) and I found a Hasting's store, too! Whoo-hooo!

For those of you who don't have a Hasting's near you...they are a great CD/book/and one of the best magazine stores I've ever seen. We will be making so many trips to Coeur D' Alene it would make your head spin. Fortunately Fourth of July Pass was clear last night. The locals on city-data. com have been telling me for months online to watch out. My son had a real scary event happen to him while trailing our U-Haul truck in our '08 Lancer GTS. I was first in line and as we were going up Lookout Pass heading towards Idaho his headlights disappeared.

"Oh-oh."

"What?"

"I don't see his headlights anymore!"

Trouble was I couldn't stop or we would've started slipping down the pass back in to Montana!

"I can't help him, honey...if I try to then we're both stuck!" The look on my wife's face was one of sheer horror. It was comparable to the look on my face if I were forced to watch Barbra Walters non-stop on TV for 44 hours.

"Oh, s&^%, someone turn this TV off or turn my face and ears away from it!"

I mean, if that woman were to ever interview me I would have to excuse myself to use the restroom and then run down 99 flights of stairs and out in to the busy NYC sidewalk and never come back. Funny thing is, I think she thinks she's good...what's more, I think she thinks we think she's good, too! :sick:

Anyhoo, the boy was all right. He told us the Lancer GTS spun around completely once. He looked behind him and a semi was coming at him but stopped. It was right near the top of the pass and a sign that warned of 4 miles of nasty ice spots ahead.

"I hope you have some good life insurance on me and good car insurance" first words out of his mouth. He says what saved him from hitting the guardrail was how slow he was driving. I was going about 35-40 mph at the time.

I think I'll heed the locals warning about 4th of July Pass and its perils, too. There is somebody's serious money flowing through the City of Coeur d' Alene. Nice town with lots of good stores and a cool, hip downtown.

Lately, my mind has been telling me "what's wrong with this subcompact, buster!"

2011 Ford Fiesta hatchback in Sunlit Orange

Sunlit orange? Try Mustard Yellow. There's a red one of these for sale at Lake City Ford in Coeur d' Alene as I type this message out. It is priced at $16,660 and it is in 5-speeds. Now, if Bank of America will pay me back my portion of the BO gift we all gave them a couple a years ago I'll take my son over there and pick my Fiesta up and give him the Lancer GTS! Come on, equalize this money situation out, Uncle Sam. How about holding off building 80 times the amount of fighter jets and aircraft carriers and other types of weapons of mass destruction and give the average taxpayers a break? Oopps...here I go again.

No, we're done moving. I'm home. This panhandle of Idaho is drop-dead gorgeous and the people are friendly here as well. What a double kisser of goodness!

It has been my personal goal to come home to the Pacific NW for about 3 years now, ever since a know-it-all CEO came to the small hospital in SE Arizona that I worked at. Once he hired his "gun" a foreign know-it-all doctor, the place went downhill like a fine U.S. skier at the Olympics. So it's done. I'm home! Whoo-hooooooooooooooooo!

I feel like I did when I bought our '08 Lancer GTS, only this place will pay us back several-fold. And that is one way you know you're truly back home.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

is how Kellogg has looked for the week and a half we've been here.

Kellogg, ID, typical winter shot

But this is how Coeur d' Alene, ID, looked yesterday to us. Only we were waaaay doooooown theeeeeeeere. Boop.

Coeur d' Alene, ID, on a typical sunny summer day

fintail · February 2011

I can see myself retiring to that kind of area...I spent a big of my childhood east of the mountains, and I know the place. My dad retired to the Blue Mountain area of SW WA near Idaho.

Heck, I could deal with the place now if it actually had living wage private sector jobs.

Indeed, if there's a hell, our corporate and political masters will inhabit their own hot level :shades:

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

man, I have never agreed with you more on a subject. The corporate sellouts and their selfish "I'll have my way and go with your money" is so disgusting and nauseating it defies explanation.

I landed a good paying job in the medical industry in tiny Kellogg because I went to school and obtained a degree in healthcare, but this New World Order spinoff of Clinton, the NAFTA free trade agreement is nothing but a sellout to appease the Corporate Gods. And they still couldn't pull it off! They needed BO to bail them out.

The fact that these dorks can charge us $3.00 to use a non-bank bankcard is so stupid I shudder with udder delight.

The grey suits at The Boeing Company can rot in a fiery hell for all I care. I feel sorry for anyone still stuck in that place. Hopefully you're not there, fintail. :sick:

fintail · February 2011

There's a large group of suits in this country who deserve a one way field trip to a guillotine exhibition.

I work in a place with endless hordes of overpaid empty suit sycophants, but it isn't the Lazy B

NAFTA will go down as a grave mistake. One needs only to look at the socio-economic spectrum since it was enacted.

So when are you buying that FT86? :shades:

nippononly · February 2011

So when are you buying that FT86?

Only 9 months until it is available! :-) :-)

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

I'll be stickin' with the '08 Lancer GTS as we decide which bills to pay and which ones to not.

When other people don't pay their bills it's hard to pay yours. This whole thing is getting riduculous and it's so messy, this money thing. The more people get overly concerned about money the more common decency goes the way of the Studebaker. I'm choosin' to treat people right and throwing the Corporate Dork-Gods out with the bathwater.

fintail · February 2011

Or when the corporate cowards get bailed out by the taxpayer...why shouldn't you get the same treatment? :shades:

The best car is a paid off car.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

amen to that. Coeur d'Alene, ID, was awash with people walking their dogs today. We checked out the local Hasting's store and I got a quick glimpse at a new compact coming from Ford that sort of has my eye.

2012 Ford Focus ST

A 5-speed in this color would be hot and fresh. Love that color!

andre1969 · February 2011

Grille's a bit overdone, but I kinda like it. I can see it appealing to its target market. And that grille does vaguely suggest the trapezoid shape of the old '57 Chrysler 300C!

One styling trend I'm thankful for is the more appropriately-sized headlights of today's car. I always hated that big, wide-eyed deer-in-the-headlights look. When the headlights were too big, it would make the whole car look small, where I think the smaller headilghts on that 2012 Focus help give it more of a big-car look.

fintail · February 2011

You saw an ST in person?

They make some pretty hot models for Europe, and they seem to be relatively popular, just as much as the WRX/EVO types anyway.

And I have to agree with Andre, headlights that aren't gigantic = good. Big lights are lazy design.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

no, I saw a 2012 Ford Focus ST in the latest Car and Driver. A couple of reporters tested a dark blue one in L.A. One little tidbit that I remember from the article was that Ford has managed to dampen noises to the cabin very well.

Agree on the headlight design, the rear of this car is similar to the latest Kia Rio hatchback rear end, and a few other hatches to boot. They wouldn't be looking at other manufacturer's designs while designing the '12 Focus hatch, would they?

But this is an appealing design. Great gold color-gotta be a few hundred extra for that color.

2012 Ford Focus 5 hatchback rear view

stickguy · February 2011

If I got my models right, the ST is the hot rodded one with a (I think) turbo engine. I believe it is not coming out at the initial launch with the normal models.

fintail · February 2011

The hot ones have been out in Europe for some time, hopefully we will be able to join the first world for once. Europe has had a more modern 5 door for awhile too, but I can't remember how the rear profile looks. I don't think there are many original car designers though....but I don't know if anyone is stealing design from Kia :shades:

ateixeira · February 2011

I want to see an even hotter edition with AWD, rally inspired.

stever · February 2011

Mercedes Takes Over Smart Brand from Penske, Four Door Cancelled (Straightline)

"Mercedes offered two reasons for the acquisition: First, Mercedes wants the small car to meet new CAFE standards for 2016. Second, Daimler rolled SMART and MB together in September and the US is the only place where the vehicles are separated.

"It has become clear over the last few months that Smart is an integral part of our achieving the fuel economy targets of 2016, said MB USA CEO Ernst Lieb."

There you have it - the only reason for a subcompact to exist is so the automakers can meet CAFE and make money on the higher profit "guzzlers".

iluvmysephia1 · February 2011

I don't think there are many original car designers though....but I don't know if anyone is stealing design from Kia

With Peter Schreyer from Germany's Audi Motors designing away for them there are knowledgeable designers stealing...I...I...mean casually glancing Pete's way just for the sake of passing the time every now and some thens, dont'cha know.

BTW-I am really happy to see that Coeur d' Alene, ID, has a great big Hasting's to go read the latest car magazines at. A bigger store than the last one my clan always visited in Sierra Vista, AZ. Oh, this just in...lawmakers are mulling over law that Arizona hospitals may have to check illegals ID before treating them. Check my math there, though, we might want to leave this topic up to Sean Hannity.

Or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Heh..an image of Brewery Gulch in Bisbee, AZ, just popped in to my mind. Bisbee was once the largest city between San Francisco and St.Louis and one can still go to the Stockmarket Tavern and recreate. They used to trade stocks there and with mining so valuable then they really meant business. It was a great place to pass a few hours away and play shuffleboard when we did the Arizona thing.

nippononly · February 2011

Was at the store just now and a ForTwo was parked right in front - top-trim model, with leather annd the glass roof. I have to admit it is appealing to me in some ways - it's a nicely kitted car on the inside. It's just such a shame they didn't offer a manual.

I think it was dumb for MB to cancel the plans for a four-door model with this acquisition, though. Smart sales would probably go up by a factor of 10 with a 4-door, even if it were a very small 4-door. I do wonder though if it doesn't perhaps indicate that MB has plans to introduce one of its own small 4-doors (rebadged A-class?) as a Smart in a year or so.

fintail · February 2011

The Schreyer move I see as HyunKia admitting that their in-house braintrust can't get the design game down just yet. And then one of the first things he does is come up with wheels which are copies of what he made almost a decade ago. Kinda goofy...but it will only help. The Optima is far sharper than the Sonata in my eyes.

With the internet, domestic based car magazines have lost a lot of appeal for me. I do like UK and German mags however.

ateixeira · February 2011

Dunno if I agree with that....

He brings his design aesthetic with him when he's hired to lead design for Kia. He's not copying his old designs, he's coming up with new ones, but obviously this is the same artists' pen.

Koreans used Giugiaro and other premiere designers in the past. The Daewoo Leganza was one of his better designs, actually.

Giorgetto did tend to design far more distinctly for each brand who hired, him though. Compare that curvaceous Daewoo to a Lotus Esprit and then the original VW Golf and a DeLorean.

fintail · February 2011

What are those wheels if not a copy of his old work? At least the rest of the car is unique.

Leganza is a watered down (or cluttered up) original Lexus GS, IMO.

Giugiaro evolved, Schreyer doesn't seem to be doing it as loudly.

ateixeira · February 2011

Again, same artists' pen for the GS and Leganza. Only the C-pillars were similar, the overall design was quite different. The US-spec model wasn't as clean.

As to the wheels, do you mean the fan-shaped ones for the new Optima? What Audi year/model were they "copied" from?

fintail · February 2011

Different details, but very similar greenhouse and proportions. He wasn't going to break new ground for Daewoo.

I believe the Kia wheels were optional on the A8 starting in 2003, at least in Europe.

puffin1 · February 2011

I bet you see them come out with a wishbone.
What's the diferrence in cost do you think?Optima has it.

ateixeira · February 2011

I must have the wrong wheels, but these look very different to me....

Kia: http://sportcarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2011-Kia-Optima-44.jpg

Audi: http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/vehicle-pictures/2006/audi/a8/3532-042-wheel- -profile-480.jpg

Am I even comparing the right wheels?

Audi's has 12 equal spokes. I found replicas while searching, so I think those are the ones?

Kia has 5 thick spokes, 5 narrow connected to the center, 10 total.

They're similar from far away if it's cloudy and raining and you are blind and a hot naked woman is standing in the way.

fintail · February 2011

It's not the number of spokes, it is the design. Simply making the width vary doesn't change the design.

Do you think it is some kind of coincidence that the same person is linked to both?

Schreyer is just recycling old ideas, it's pretty simple.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

Somewhere years ago I read about a study they did with wheel designs, and styles like those two on the Optima and Audi (but moreso the Optima wheel, but at the cost of looks IMO) and that very style of wheel was more aerodynamic and created less wind drag, so therefore used less fuel. I think even wind noise was reduced.

It made sense to me in the same way that the flatter/smoother and lower the floorpan is to the ground, saves fuel. As roof racks costing you fuel.

You will notice that, on any solar equipped cars that they enter in university class contests etc, all have very flat type disc wheels that fill the wheel well area, so they didn't do that by accident either.

To my eye tho, that Audi wheel looks so much classier than the Opt one.

But I still prefer 5 classy spokes. Its hard to beat a well done handsome 5 spoke.

ateixeira · February 2011

Do we even know if Schreyer designed both those wheels? Or even either one?

I think they look substantially different. The only characteristic they have in common is the spokes appear long.

ateixeira · February 2011

that Audi wheel looks so much classier than the Opt one

The Audi wheel looks sophisticated.

The Kia wheel looks more high tech, as if it were designed with wind tunnel input on a CAD computer.

To me they're really not very similar at all, even the overall style.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

I agree on all 3 points. I will say tho, that that pic of the Kia wheel is the most complimentary I've seen yet. I have heard they look better in person. I still would not opt for it if I could have a 5 spoke.

I am very anxious to try out the seats in the Optima. I hear they are firm (good by me) as long as the shape/support is there, but they appear to have too short a seat base in any pic i have seen. We don't get the car till late spring apparently.
Still it is FWD only so if i went that route, it sure would be a compromise. I am even tempted to try to put a different seat in my CRV, spray the wheel wells with that special sound deadener material,(which name i can't recall but someone here told me about it and i spent hours one day trying to find the post) and call it a day. One problem with swapping out my seat though is it has an airbag in it.

fintail · February 2011

He's linked to both cars, isn't he? Logic would have it that the same connection exists for the wheels.

I seem to remember concept drawings of the car that were even more Audi-like.

It would be an insane coincidence if such similar designs had no personal link...but of course, car designers are great copycats too.

ateixeira · February 2011

He's probably in a position to approve a wheel design rather than pen it himself.

Having said that, maybe he likes long spokes?

The Kia wheel design makes the wheel seem bigger than it is, probably an intentional optical illusion of sorts.

That's not the case with the straight-forward Audi wheel.

fintail · February 2011

I used to call those Audi wheels "wagon wheels" - to me they look huge. But that's just me, I'm still stuck in the day when I can't imagine anyone wanting anything over 17-18".

I am sure that's it, makes the wheel look big - a growing fad for many years.

kyfdx · February 2011

... all round...

hpmctorque · February 2011

"With the internet, domestic based car magazines have lost a lot of appeal for me."

I've been thinking the same thing for some time now. One criticism I have about the popular car mags, and most will probably disagree on this, is that there are too many pages devoted to exotics. I buy these magazines to be informed and to dream, but mostly the former. I can dream about cars costing between, say, $55,000-$85,000, but I have virtually no interest in those that approach $100,000 and beyond. Also, I think the space devoted to ads, some of which aren't even related to automotive, has increased significanty over the past few years. I imagine the ad revenues compensate for the really low subscription rates.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

Given how so much info is available online these past years, it isn't that surprising that the boundaries for ads have been broadened.

I agree on the higher end exposure. I suspect though that there is the level that there is because these guys like to have something to look forward to to thrash around that gets their blood flowing more than just the humble 60k beasts can manage. (sarcasm) So in order for mfgrs to supply them with a regular supply of twin turbo AWD Porsches, they have to write about and advertise them.

I think this complaint of not enough emphasis being put on the $10 to 25k vehicles has gone on for as many years as I can remember.

hpmctorque · February 2011

"...I can't imagine anyone wanting anything over 17-18". "

I'm stuck in the same camp.

ateixeira · February 2011

At the car show I noticed a Murano had 18" rims and still had tallish 65 series tires. Ridiculous.

hpmctorque · February 2011

Yeah, crossovers tend to have higher aspect tires than sedans. The wheel and tire sizes you listed for Murano the doesn't surprise me.

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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