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Comments
To be honest we don't know if the dealer did anything wrong. This could be a simple case of someone willingly buying more than they can afford and now has buyers remorse and is trying to get out of the deal.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mack
Mackabee
BR, DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, try to teach your wife to drive a stick. If you value your marriage and love your wife, have a female friend teach her. I went through this with my wife a long time ago. Believe me, I have a lot of patience but I didn't when it came time to teach her to drive a stick. I had a friend's wife volunteer to teach her and she learned in no time. All our cars used to be sticks until the 97 Camry came along. The only ones that drive stick now are my two oldest sons. Even baby Mack drives an automatic
Mackabee
I'm so glad we could settle our differences because I know you have a good heart. Sometimes the experiences we share, good or bad, have a way of bringing us all closer together. And, as Martha would say, that's a good thing.
Regards,
John
Since 1999 my store has had a cruise contest and I won my share. This year they decided to try something different. An all inclusive week at the Maya Riviera in Playa del Carmen Mexico. The contest ran for three months and the whole auto group was involved. There were 15 trips awarded to sales and we were broken up into three groups with group a fighting for 6 trips, group b for 5 trips, and group c for 4 trips. The groupings were based on the previous year sales so I ended up in group c. Prior to my health issues I was always in the top 20 in the company, not the top 20%. The constest includes the Honda, Isuzu, Volkswagen, Hyundai, BMW, Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, Mini and Toyota stores. To make a long story longer, I was numero uno in my group going into the last month of the competition. I was really excited and motivated to win since I have not taken Mrs. Mackabee on a vacation in quite a while.
Last month was the last month of the competition and I ended the month with flying colors and in the number one spot for my group. Well lo and behold, I see the results for the company wide trips which included GM's, SM's, Service writers, etc..etc. and in the sales consultant my name is nowhere to be found. I look at the list twice and start asking my GSM what happened? He says he'll check into it. I walk out of the office and mention it to a colleague and he's dumdfounded but says: "CSI?" and then it starts to sink in. #$%@^*(() Remember the guy that gave me a 51 on a survey?? Well thanks a lot. It just cost me a trip to Mexico. I was so disappointed I called my wife and told her about it. She told me not to worry about it. That in her heart I was still a winner.
:shades:
Mackabee
Mackabee
John
One lady gave me a NO on the important Question 9..." Is the car free of problems" citing a bad windshield wiper.
The shop found a pine needle under the blade which made a streak.
Another guy, a doctor couldn't figure out how to operate his Home Link even after my explanation and my advise to call 1800-HOMELINK.
I'm almost to the point where I don't care anymore.
And thats when you will do much better.
mack
:shades:
Mackabee
Mackabee
Yes, I'm in Stillwater and a Professor at OSU in the Art Department. I'm a northerner, but have worked at OSU since the late 80s. I believe that my email is in my profile.
I'm not sure how I got addicted to this forum, but I love the stories that Mack, Rover, isell, madmoo, IR and others have shared over the years. Some of my favorites were from Terry (rroyce)--mostly on RWTIV, who seems to have re emerged--at least occasionally from a long hiatus.
Somewhere in the the dim-dark past Mack left at least one "to be continued" yarn unfinished--and it still haunts me. I'm afraid that admission speaks volumes about my own character. Mack's recent "episode" where he dons his PI cap and spies on the customers at a competitor's establishment is a classic. A kind of Rear Window meets King of Cars.
Gogiboy
Twenty five years ago when I started selling Toyotas the Yen was worth much less against the dollar and the product was so cheap that we got away with two to three thousand dollar markups above the MSRP, even with high packs the commissions were outrageous, the nicest thing of all -- no surveys to have to sweat.
:shades:
I live by this motto myself.
Apart from running 2 retail stores, I also work full time and I work to my satisfaction, not to my Director's or anybody else.
look, the purchasing public is not aware of the impact of a less than "excellent" rating, or that the comments don't count at all.
the survey is a poorly designed survey for people that flunked statistics and survey validity was presented on the day they skipped class.
either someone sticks up for you and says we are gonna change this bogus system which is essentially binary, or they are going to ignore it, or you gotta walk.
somebody has to tell the corporate bean counters their approach is fundamentally flawed.
Some get it and some don't and once in awhile, a nasty customer will use the survey as a final way to stick it to us.
It's a level playing field so we are all graded equally.
Some people just shouldn't be surveyed.
They have to justify the salary somehow, so they come up with those surveys...
On Audi survey there are answers: not satisfied, somewhat satisfied, satisfied, very satisfied and EXTREMELY satisfied... guess how satisfied the customer has to be for me to get paid?
Another one:
VW survey has a question:
"Rate the value of your VW compared to other models considered".
So, if a customer compared a VW Bug to a Rolls Roice Phantom, and rates the Bug 9 out of 10 - I don't get paid!
Once in a great while we will get a request to take a car for an hour or so and we do grant these requests.
Funny, these people rarely buy.
I don't know what CSI stands for but it should be changed to FTS for F... the Salesman.
Do the mfgs, owners, and managers get to keep the profits they make off of a sale where you get a less than perfect review? Your actions reflect on them so a bad survey should also cost them money. Do you have a suggestion box? :mad:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Duh! Seeing that I bought it wouldn't it be a better value (at least to me)?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Finally I get the survey in the mail but didn’t have the time to do it then so I put it down. Yeah you guessed it, I can’t find it now. I’m going to look a little more before I give up and/or blame Mrs. jmonroe for throwing it out (come to think of it I better not do that
So, if the survey isn’t mailed back will the dealer get docked for this?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Not only is it invalid based on the fact that anything less than 5 or Exceedingly Satisfied or something like that is considered success or pass or whathaveyou, the salesmen have to coach people a little to rturn the survey and to provide good scores.
Any intellegent person has to conclude you design a survey to really assess how you are doing and where you can improve, but this isn't the way to do it.
But then, I remember some of the BS that you poor guys must endure on a daily basis. That ludicrous CSI survey, and how it affects your pay, is a prime example.
So, in the end, I always come back to my senses and accept the fact that writing Change Orders and TPS Reports isn't such a bad thing!
My wife and I are shopping for a mid-sized SUV for her. There are only three of us in the COTMC family, and because we enjoy cars with good driving behavior, we are looking at vehicles which are a little smaller than the new Highlander, for instance. However, we still want something that will provide room for 3 people in the back seat (for short trips).
We are big fans of BMW, but we don't have the typical BMW budget! With the 2.9% BMW financing available on them, we were strongly considering 3-year old BMW X3's with the CPO warranty package. Our nearest BMW dealer, from whom I purchase a 325Ci near the beginning of this year, reduced their price on one particular X3 2.5i down to $24,900. This one is nicely equipped, and it has the 100K-mile CPO warranty.
Even though we would ideally like to wait a couple more months before making our purchase, we decided to test drive this particular X3 and consider purchasing it this weekend. At that price, it shouldn't stay on the lot beyond the end of this month.
Well, during that test drive, I noticed a couple of defective items with this car, such as a rear passenger window that wouldn't move up/down, and one channel of the audio system was not working! Hey, I thought all this equipment was thoroughly inspected when it went thru its BMW certification process?? Looks like someone didn't do their job! :mad:
Anyway, that isn't a deal breaker, and I was promised both of these issues will be corrected immediately, before delivery. OK, I'm fine with that. My wife really likes this particular X3 -- it has the unusual Terracota colored leather with the black trim -- and so I consider starting the paperwork and leaving a deposit.
My sales associate starts showing me the numbers, with the purchase price at $24.9K. He asks me if we can move forward with the purchase?
OK, this is where I become a tad bit stubborn. First of all, I have this strange affliction that causes me to resist paying the full advertised price for any Used Car.
Sure, I understand they just reduced the price by $4000, but I want to be thrown a bone. Besides, that dealership complex charges $388 Documentation Fees! The fact that I found some defects in their "132-Point Inspected" car, and the fact that I am a recent repeat-buyer, should also provide me with something more than a handshake, shouldn't it? So, I told him I would buy, if they reduced their price by $600.
To conclude my story, my sales associate returned from the pit with a glum look on his face. "I'm sorry Mr. COTMC, but the sales manager is already upset we advertised this car at $24,900. He will absolutely not budge any lower -- not even one dollar!" I sincerely believe my salesman was being honest. This seemed to be out of his hands. I counter-offered to split the difference -- upping my offer by $300 -- but my salesman just shook his head and said this was the final answer from management.
With that response, I told our salesman I will need some time to ponder this purchase a little further, before I decide yea or nay. I felt bad leaving him hanging, when he was so close to closing the deal. I probably took about 75-90 minutes of his time today. Not one of those tragic stories like Mack sometimes relays to us, but still, I felt he deserved the sale. My thoughts at this point are to wait and see if I get a follow-up call with some price concession on that X3. I don't plan to say "You've got a deal!" without some small price consession.
Yes, I readily admit I am being stubborn about this! I certainly understand if some of you say, "Just pay the asking price, especially since you are only $300 away!". However, don't you guys think the dealer, under all these circumstances I mentioned, should be willing to budge just a tiny bit as well?? :confuse:
The truth is that I will not be terribly disappointed if somebody else buys this car later today or tomorrow -- nor will my wife (I hope!)
Although we recognize it is a very good price, we truly are in no hurry to purchase at this time. If anything, it would be better for us if we waited until December -- all other things being equal.
What do you guys think? Who's being the most stubborn? Sales management? Or me?
Opinion: CSI is is just one piece of documentation to be used for the Mega Store transition in the near future.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Customers always tell us they don't want to haggle or go back and forth. They just want a great price.
But no matter how much we discount a car or how low the sales tag is, it is rarely enough. It's like they think the reduced sales price is a "starting point".
What good is a "sales price" anyway?
The fact they let you walk over such a small amount tells me the car had been reduced as much as possible in the first place or, quite possibly, a mistake may have been made. This happens.
Once several years ago, we accidently mis marked a used Volvo Wagon. The sales tag was TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS less than we had in the car. A HORRIBLE MISTAKE! A customer pounced on the car, drove it and actually offered less!
I was sent in to explain what had happened. I told them that our lot attendant had put the wrong tag in that car but we would absorb the loss and honor our posted price. This is the way we do business. Nope, it wasn't good enough! " I'm not paying full price!". They simply didn't believe me. m I told them that if they left our lot, I would pull the tag and change it to what it should heve been. They didn't believe me. They stood on our sidewalk and chatted in their native tongue for 15 minutes before driving away.
Two hours later, they were back! They really thought I would honor that mistake. It was VERY satisfying to watch them storm out of our lot in a huff!
cotmc, my gut feeling here is that you really didn't want to buy that car and that was an excuse not to.
The dealer could have sold a car today and maybe made up for it on the backend with financing or the certification process.
Honestly, I don't think their price was incorrect or a mistake, because they have another similar model at that same advertised price. They posted that price on their web site and inside today's newspaper.
Are you familiar with the High-Line brands such as BMW and Lexus, and how they promote their Certified Used Vehicles? I think what might bother me the most is that I have proven (in my mind) that this X3 did not receive the level of inspection that BMW always advertises. If the car had been in the condition that BMW advertises, then I promise I wouldn't be as stubborn about this!
In the future if anything is not up to snuff on a CPO either the dealer will eat the cost before I sign or I won't buy.
The problem is, the BMW CPO program varies a good bit from dealer to dealer. We've bought two CPO cars from Swope BMW in Louisville and both cars were immaculate inside and out. Still, I've heard of a few dealers who offer pretty scruffy CPO cars.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
as regards to the CPO certification, the way they do it is that the service guy drives the car for a mile or so and if he finds that there is no "major" powertrain issues, it is good to go. They realize that all other niggling matters will be taken care of under the extended warranty of the CPO process.
I had bad engine vibrations on my CPO RX300 that was not discovered during the test drive. Couple of months later on when I took it to the dealer, they wrote back on the service sheet that the "vibrations and booming sound at idle" are normal. I was shocked. I took the RX300 to another dealer. Same story. They acknowledged that the Car vibrates excessively at idle but found nothing wrong with the usual suspects i.e. IAC/mounts so they cannot fix it.
This continued for a year. Every other month, I would take the car in. They would inspect it, and give it back to me in the next couple of days, while I drive their loaner. No fix.
Then I got mad and wrote to Toyota customer service. They also say the same thing. Nothing wrong found in the car. What do we fix?
Then I told them to fix the silencer/muffler assembly because I thought that this was what was wrong. It was not damped well enough. They said NO. we cannot fix the silencer. We cannot see anything wrong visually. So I challenged Toyota and told them that if the fix I suggest does not work, I will foot the bill. Guess what?
They paid for the work as it worked to a very good extent, although it still vibrates a bit at idle. Not as silky smooth as my Mazda6 which has practically no vibrations at idle for the same mileage as the RX300. In the meanwhile I have looked at many RX300s and they all vibrate at idle. So there is a design flaw with Toyota that they do not want to acknowledge publicly.
I'd be very leery about what else is wrong that you can't see now. Even though you're getting a warranty that will supposedly fix any and all ills, you're starting off on the wrong foot regardless of price.
When I'm uncomfortable in an attempt to purchase anything, I don't. You know better than anyone how you feel about this so let your nose point you in that direction.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don't think you were being unreasonable but it does sound like a bit of stubborness from both sides.
It's also possible that that manager knew there were other people "on" that car and maybe he figured it would sell quickly anyway. Who knows?
I believe that unless a person feels really good about a purchase they should pass on it and that is what you did.
Well...this is a BMW so he really should heve since they tend to be troubleprone. I've owned two of them so I know what happens. Great cars, just nitpicky!
Mack
Mack
Mackabee
COMPLETELY DISSATISFIED, DISSATISFIED, SATISFIED, COMPLETELY SATISFIED
Then the numerical system came along:
On a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is completely dissatisfied and 5 is completely satisfied, how would you rate your salesperson?
A variation of that question on the same survey:
On a scale of 1 to 5 how satisfied were you with your new Toyota?
Then we had the telephone survey:
Did you purchase this 2001 Toyota Corolla at xyz Toyota? If no stop survey. If yes continue.
Now we have the mail-in survey:
Please rate your sales person on the following:
Initial greeting .....Ex , Gd, Fr, Pr
Professional appearance
Personal integrity
Product knowledge
Knowledge of competitor's products
Concern for your time (they took too long!)
Product presentation
etc,
Please rate your negotiation experience
Negotiated in good faith (they wouldn't sell me the car for $500.00 under invoice)
Concern for your time (they took too long!)
The person that completed your final paperwork:
Concern for your time
etc.
When you took delivery of your vehicle:
Did you get a full tank of gas or voucher?
Was it free of dents, scratches? No, there were paint chips on the hood when I got home.
Were all items present in the vehicle? The floor mats were missing (although this car didn't come with floor mats)
Were you introduced to parts and service personnel? Hey it's 10:30 pm there is no one in parts and service!!
You get the picture, yet TMS expects every customer to rate us EXCELLENT or we fail
Like roadburner said, it varies from dealer to dealer. I know not to bother with this dealer in the future.
Mac points out things that should be warning signs. Had I looked more carefully at the tires I'd have walked away. The tread was OK but they were three different models of tire. After futile arguing (corporate Honda took the position that once you owned it the tires weren't warrantied - yet proper tires were one of the inspection points. Once I replaced the non-matching tires at my own considerable expense it was like a new vehicle.
I know I still have one coming. If the brake pads are less than 50% they are supposed to be replaced as part of certification. LAst month my independent mechanic says the back ones are at 20%. I didn't do that much to them since February! Heck, the fronts are at 90% because they had replaced them as part of certification.
It's actually quite a nice van but I had to spend hundreds of my own dollars to bring it up to what should have been certified standards.
Once I come up to being out of warranty I may seriously consider something else.
I'll have to check with management and see whether we can set up some kind of a wake up call service here!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Was it pleasurable? Yes. Can something be improved - please tell us, we want to know. OK - here it is... Oh - so you are not completely happy - Mr.Salesman - no bonus for you! :lemon:
Then they're all surprised nobody like to fill surveys. People are lazy in general, but those who actually care to do it and like to help, becoming loathed for just telling the truth in good faith.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
What do I think? I think you need to make a post in RWTIV and I will dissect the price. Hint: If miles were right you may be foolish for passing it up... I need location, options, miles, you know the drill.
CPOs: legit value or not? in general, i don't see it myself.