Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50 · May 2009

"...Dog died. Too bad..."

You're going to hell, you know that don't you?

oldfarmer50 · May 2009

"...It gets called a Dodge or Chrysler if they don't want to use the Fiat name..."

Chrysler has done that for years with Mitsubishi products so why not with some of the Fiat models. It would be nice to see Chrysler have a competitive sub-compact for a change.

isellhondas · May 2009

Or they are just too young to remember the dismal offerings from Fiat.

I really can't think of worse cars at the time. Better now? Perhaps, perhaps not?

sterlingdog · May 2009

"Good to see you are your regular self JM..."

That certainly leaves lots of room for improvement! :shades: :P

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

You made an excellent point. He WOULD make a great car salesman---gift of gab, smart, imaginative, assertive, etc. What a great after school job for him.

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

Your thinking on the Fiat+Chrysler deal seems to me to be right on the money. Like you, I think that the government+UAW piece is a frightening thought.

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

Thanks for the "wet sand" idea for the bumper. I'll investigate that as well. As for painting the bumper, you may rest assured that no insurance company is going to be involved in that deal. I may be right brained, but my left brain takes over when it comes to money.

I didn't make it to the dealer today. My niece is moving here from Arizona and I had to make the moving arrangements on this end. It was a complete day job...Mayflower, storage facility, apartment, utilities, and hauling the SUV from Arizona. It's $1k for the carrier to bring the SUV. I couldn't fly out and drive it back for much less than that. I've used the guy before and he is good.

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

"You're going to hell, you know that don't you?"

That was soooooooo funny!!!

Richard

roadburner · May 2009

Like you, I think that the government+UAW piece is a frightening thought.

As I put it in another thread:
Cars such as the the G8 GT/GXP, CTS-V, Camaro SS and the ZR1 will almost certainly be the last hurrah for performance cars from Government Motors. GM CEO Barry O. will soon have them churning out nothing but plug-in hybrids, Volts, and other similarly dreary cars- appliances that will warm an eco-weenie's heart but sit on dealer lots gathering dust.

deltheking · May 2009

To salesman/sales managers,
Do u use carchex services to inspect a used car or do u get it checked at your dealership service department.
If it`s a used car only dealer--would they use it or would they get it checked at the dealer or independent mechanic.
Carchex offers a comprehensive used car pre purchase inspections anywhere in the US.How reliable and competent are they?Have u ever used them?
Your opinions??

sterlingdog · May 2009

I notice that GM CEO Barry O still rides in his big, black SUV's.

Richard

isellhondas · May 2009

Never heard of Carchex.

We do our own inspections.

mako1a · May 2009

Volts, and other similarly dreary cars will sit on lots

Wow, I see the opposite. When the electrics become available the gas cars will need to be gotten rid of.

"Hybrid" has people confused because they expect it to be able to run without gas which they can not. 2 propulsion sources are not needed. Just electric drive with multiple sources of current "plug-in and generator" to run the motors. The most efficient generator is diesel, not gasoline and that is part of the hold up in disposing of gas cars.

Electric cars will prove to be far better than gas when they become available.

lrguy44 · May 2009

ditto

golic · May 2009

Electric cars will prove to be far better than gas when they become available.

--Has anyone sold one of these plug-ins? I think the problem with the electric vehicle is that it requires a massive infrastructure of plug-in charging systems or stations. I think there are some Costco's in CA who offer this?

But who is going to invest the capital for these stations until these vehicles are more main stream? Who is going to buy one of these vehicles until the stations are available?

lrguy44 · May 2009

Fossil fuels are used to generate much of our electricity. Again, a long way to go in technology and infrastructure, but ultimately hydrogen is the best solution.

sterlingdog · May 2009

Yes, and in the meantime what does a person do who wants to take a road trip of 500, 1,000, or more miles? Where would they charge up?

Richard

fezo · May 2009

I agree on hydrogen. I hear people saying you don't want to carry hydrogen around in a vehicle because it's explosive. I figure so is gasoline and we've managed to store that in moving vehicles pretty well.

cdn_tch · May 2009

But who is going to invest the capital for these stations until these vehicles are more main stream? Who is going to buy one of these vehicles until the stations are available?

I read an article about this a few weeks back, and it is a classic chicken and egg scenario. What can overcome the lack of charging infrastructure is the Volt like system that has an ICE backup. You can charge at home, maybe at work and the rest of the time you'll use gas. It is an ideal commuter in places where the commute is short enough that you can do it all on electric.

This issue is not something that will disappear over 3-5 years but rather over a much longer timeframe. Todays hybrids and first gen plugins are the pioneers that will pave the way for the electric infrastructure. Much like the railroads of the old west, it will take time, and some areas will be better served sooner than others, but in the long run the infrastructure will get there. That is, unless the scientists come up with fuel cell, hydrogen or other ways of powering our car addiction.

:shades:

oldfarmer50 · May 2009

"...People saying you don't want to carry hydrogen around..."

The biggest problem with hydrogen (and natural gas) is range. It takes much more volume to store a gas than a liquid of equal energy so for a given tank size your range is limited with hydrogen.

Of course if you're talking about hydrogen powered fuel-cells, it may be a different story.

mako1a · May 2009

The US is too large for Hydrogen powered vehicles. They work in small countries with limited distances, but here in the great big USA, electric vehicles are going to be the standard.

Plug-in for short distances and a battery charging generator for long trips.

I am ready to make vehicle maintenance a yearly minor expenditure with electric motors instead of a bi-monthly major pita from internal combustion primary power.

graphicguy · May 2009

But who is going to invest the capital for these stations until these vehicles are more main stream? Who is going to buy one of these vehicles until the stations are available?

golic....you bring up a very good point. I expect companies like Exxon, Valero, etc will fight this "tooth and nail". Their "cash cow" (oil) will be severely threatened.

If I were a betting man, it's going to take some sort of gov't incentive to get companies to build the infrastructure for these "plug ins". I hate when the gov't gets involved in these things. Yet, if that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have "BIG" projects getting done. As we've painfully seen recently, public companies are WAY to focused on today's bottom line as to forego short term profits, rather than long term profits.

But, these plug ins are coming....Volt, Toyota, Honda...will be the first out of the blocks. You can charge these at night while you sleep. But, eventually someone will want a piece of that action and offer some charging stations. It would be a good business model for someone who's enterprising (with the backing of someone with deep pockets) and willing to look long term on the financial viability.

Probably won't be the oil companies, though. Just look at how they don't learn their lessons now. Oil demand continues to fall. But, it's the "same old-same old" from oil companies. They're out there raising prices again, in a falling market. Last Fall's collapse taught them nothing.

imidazol97 · May 2009

>But, it's the "same old-same old" from oil companies. They're out there raising prices again, in a falling market.

Went from $1.89 to $2.29 yesterday Cincy to Dayton. I want to see how the ones blaming Bush

for keeping the prices high are goinging to blame him now with a different administration responsible for the increase! :sick:

The increase is not going to help the economy for buying and selling cars just as it took lots of cash out of the economy last year and helped cause the consumer spending drop portion of the slowdown.

boomchek · May 2009

I've never heard of carchex either.

We do our own inspections and we also do an local insurance company check for any accident history. Once in a while we'll do a Carfax, or Carproof, which is like carfax, but less widely used.

The reason that inspections are the best way of checking a vehicle is because carfax, or carchex only rely on what is reported to insurance companies or state dmv departments.

So if you drink and drive for example, and crash your car on a country road by yourself, where there were no witnesses, and you don't report it to your insurance agency, and you then tow it on your own to a body shop and pay out of pocket to get it fixed, there will never be any documentation that the car was involved in an accident.

A thorough inspection however can uncover serious previous damage on a vehicle even if it has not been reported.

deltheking · May 2009

Carchex is used car vehicle inspection service owned by Carfax.There is link to it on the Carfax website.

tidester · May 2009

you don't want to carry hydrogen around in a vehicle because it's explosive. I figure so is gasoline

There's an important difference between hydrogen and gasoline. You can see and smell gasoline but hydrogen is invisible and odorless. Nevertheless, hydrogen can be stored safely.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

tidester · May 2009

Can any of you give this member some advice on lease swapping? http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1d3e33/1

Thanks!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

boomchek · May 2009

Thanks for the link.

fezo · May 2009

You can store it safely - that was my basic point.

lrguy44 · May 2009

It looks like all the do is contract with local ASE Cert independents to do an inspection. Nothing a buyer could not do for himself

houdini1 · May 2009

It appears to me that this country has absolutely no expertise when it comes to what fuels we should use. Now the "experts" are saying that using alcohol or ethanol was a big mistake as it pollutes more that gasoline.

The experts prohibit the use of diesel with tougher regs each year and higher taxes. If we had some of those clean diesels we could cut our oil imports in half overnight. It's all about politics instead of what is best for the country.

Electric cars run on electricity generated mostly by coal burning plants, so effectively, we are using coal to run our cars.

The average person on this forum knows far more about energy than our so called experts !!

Now I feel better. Rant over ! Anybody selling any cars?

fezo · May 2009

The crazy thing with ethanol is we tried it thirty years ago and it didn't work then and we ended up with a lot of dead ethanol plants. What made them think it would somehow be different?

roadburner · May 2009

I notice that GM CEO Barry O still rides in his big, black SUV's.

He also lectured us about turning down our thermostats yet he keeps the White House thermostat cranked up so high that "You could grow orchids in there. .

snakeweasel · May 2009

Electric cars will prove to be far better than gas when they become available.

Ah yes my drive out west this summer would be so much better driving 300 miles then stopping for 5 hours while I recharge instead of those long 5-10 minutes to gas up.

mako1a · May 2009

Snake, you don't have to plug into a wire from a building to recharge. Think locomotive engines that pull hundreds of train cars across the country non stop. They are powered by electric motors. Usually with diesel generators providing current.
Now take that concept to a much smaller scale. Tiny generator with some batteries for power storage. Even the prius that comes without plug-in capability for now doesn't have to stop and wait for a recharge. It charges while moving. Home plug-in is a further convenience you may or may not want to use.

snakeweasel · May 2009

Then we are talking a hybrid not an electric car. Still uses fuel.

mako1a · May 2009

No. By definition a Hybrid has 2 propulsion sources. Gas engine and electric motor.
Electric has only one source of power to propel the vehicle. Electric motor.

oldfarmer50 · May 2009

"...so much better driving 300 miles then stopping for 5 hours while I recharge..."

Are you talking about the car...or you? Me personally, I need to recharge much sooner than I use to.

lrguy44 · May 2009

What about the fossil fuels it takes to provide electricity?

boomchek · May 2009

ridiculous offers than ever lately, on both new and used, accompanied with the "you're bankrupt so gimme a car for nearly free" attitude.

Thanks, but not thanks, and take your pity elsewhere. :mad:

jmonroe · May 2009

What made them think it would somehow be different?

Nothing. It's just the next generation of politicians that pushed for it the first time. History repeats itself. Only now it's my kids money that's paying for it and of course I got caught in it the second time around too. If I live long enough, they'll get me again :mad:

jmonroe

sterlingdog · May 2009

According to David Axelrod, it's "O.K.". "He's from Hawaii."

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

"...will fight this tooth and nail."

Absolutely. The lobbyists will work like dogs to prevent it from happening. Most congressmen had campaign contributions from the oil guys. Also,elections are next year. Nancy and Bob know how their bread got buttered. It will be a slow process before we are able to put the oil giants to rest. Still, in time, progress will have its way. It is the natural order of things.

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

"...with a different administration responsible for the increase!"

Perhaps things will "change".

Richard

snakeweasel · May 2009

No that is one type of hybrid. What you described (a gas motor providing electricity to power a electric car) is a serial hybrid. This is the same system that locomotive engines use.

sterlingdog · May 2009

"Went from $1.89 to $2.29 yesterday..."

Here's another thing that burns me raw. The government in all of its wisdom doesn't encourage people to save money for the future or for a rainy day. Money market rates standing at 2.020-2.250! :mad: It wasn't that many years ago that we got 5% or better. CD's aren't rewarded much more. All we hear is take your stimulus money and spend, spend, spend to help the economy. That's what got us to this point! What example are we setting for our children and grandchildren?

Richard

bolivar · May 2009

I'm happy to see one or two posters realize that electrictiy isn't free. It comes from either natural gas or coal fired generation plans. Yep, that o'l carbon based energy. And there are huge efficiency losses when you use these sources to generate electricity and then use the electricity to move an auto.

Where will the hydrogen come from you talk about? Almost all hydrogen produced comes from separation out of natural gas. Right now hydrogen, even for a fuel cell, would either come from the natural gas production or broken out of water (H2O) using electrical power, a horribly inefficient way to get power. Clean, green autos are currently a hugely inefficient way of moving people around.

The only direction is nuclear powered electrical generation plants. And no one want to touch this as a solution. But it will HAVE to be done. The one place the Frenchies have done something right is their power generation. They have dozens of nuclear plants. No one talks about this, but they have just done it. I think something like 90% of their electricity comes from nuclear.

I've posted this rant before. And I usually end with a last solution - the little grey men driving those strange flying machines will finally touch down and communicate with us. And tell us how they power those machines.

When talking to people about these last two options for power, they usually mumble some lame excuse and wander off. Either one of the options scares people.

tidester · May 2009

You can store it safely - that was my basic point.

I got that. I was addressing the public perception of H₂ safety or the lack thereof. Gasoline might be deemed safer because you can see it and smell it.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

tidester · May 2009

much better driving 300 miles then stopping for 5 hours while I recharge

Actually, that is likely to change in the near future. I read an article recently (sorry, I didn't save the link) describing a new kind of battery that recharges on the order of 100 times faster than current batteries. They have not tested it yet on anything near the size required for electric vehicles but it's a big step in the right direction.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

tidester · May 2009

Electric has only one source of power to propel the vehicle. Electric motor.

I know what you meant to say. The electric motor is not the source of power (the battery is) but it is the agent that propels the vehicle and no other propelling agent is present such as an internal combustion engine.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

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