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Ever since buying that Gennie, JM has become even more crochety in his old age. He seems to be posting more, so I guess he is shining and polishing less. I think he is just nervous about all the new furniture he will be buying soon.
In the 60s I managed a retail store that sold lots of TVs and new - at that time - digital alarm clock radios. I was amazed at the number of people who would ask me which ones were the best. I would take an educated guess because I had some interest in them and could steer them to the better choices. But, it surprised me that so many people preferred it if I made the decision for them. The point being, that sales people do provide a necessary service for many customers.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's right. None of us know it all, and we continue to learn new things each day.
Richard
The little changes to the Fusion really make it look pretty nice for about $25k. And the Taurus (though I have no idea why they had to bring back that name after the last group of losers to carry that name badge) had some nice changes which make it look more solid and heavier, like the newer Camry's. The Mustangs had a few new changes that make it look good too. Hopefully Ford could hang in there.
Also, I saw a great new Pontiac G8 today, black on black, and it looked really nice inside and out. IMO it is by far the nicest GM except for Cadillac. They should keep it and make it the new Impala (which is getting a little long in the tooth).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
I sure did like it better than the Studebakers he had earlier in my boyhood.
Vehicle Service - schedule ahead and they will get you in and out while you wait, if possible.
if you need to leave it they feature 'shuttle service', for extended service plan customers, rental reimbursement if overnigth is required, also reduced rate rentals and my favorite, "Friends and Family'. in other words, arrange your own ride!
To that I would have to say what is it about the market that makes the Honda worth more? The answer is thats its a Honda, and to many thats not good enough.
I would explain total cost of ownership is what really matters and not initial price.
True but the longer you own the car the better something like a Hyundai is over a Honda.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I remember those years too. And I remember all the windows being covered. And I would get these magazines in August that would show the new cars...sneak previews.
And there would be the big day in September when we could go to the dealer and actually see the new cars. I guess with far fewer manufacurers we could keep track of which cars were which. And yes, every year every car was completely different.
That's when cars were cars
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Snake, you should ask yourself what is it about the Elantra that makes it worth $1800 less than a Civic as it is you that voted with your dollars and bought one instead of a Civic. The market means you, the buyer. You, and tens of thousands of other consumers determine what you're willing to pay for it because you ultimately voted with your dollars.
It means you're willing to buy an Elantra but only if it's $1800 less than a Civic.
It also means that people who bought a Civic are willing to pay $1800 more for it than an Elantra because they saw the value in it one way or another.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
There is a track record and that is worth something. Also, if someone was pleased with their last Honda, then that is worth something. There's more dealerships across the country and if you travel a lot that could be worth something. No company gets that big and has such a loyal following by making an inferior product. Some people pay extra for a Starbucks coffee because they know it will be of a certain standard, and some people are willing to pay for that peace of mind.
True but the longer you own the car the better something like a Hyundai is over a Honda
True, if the Hyundai holds up. The Honda has a proven track record of few repairs and many have gone over 200k. Hyundais might last that long but we don't know for sure. I would take a chance on a Hyundai if I liked the car better and if I had to save a few bucks up front. If I wanted to play it safe and if a few bucks wasn't an issue, and I liked the car more, I would go for the Honda. A lot of people are like my brother, buys a new Honda every 10 years, doesn't even look at anything else.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You’re making my point ‘boom’. How could you possibly know the buyers expenses and how they want to live? The best you can do for a buyer, who is lost as to what they want, is to first find out if you will be wasting your time with someone that is dreaming about a new car. So, you get their permission to run a credit check and if they qualify you tell them what ball park they should be trying to play in based on what they told you and what you see in their report. If a buyer doesn’t know what they want when they walk in and you give them the good news that they can buy model ‘A’ when all they thought they could afford was model ‘B’, they’re in trouble and it wasn’t you that got them there. It was their hot pants for that new car. FWIW, every time I was about to buy a house and the realtor ran the numbers on me they always said, “you can afford more of a house than what you’re looking at”. I usually said, “I’m happy at what I’m looking at so let’s go with my limit, alright”.
Basically I'll do my best to show you why you should buy one of my vehicles over a competitor's, but a financial planner I can't be for you.
Isn’t that what I just said?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I may be wrong but I thought this was the 'Gull Wing". The 59 was a Fin
Sorry but the question is what is it about the civic that makes it worth $1,800 more. With the Elantra I am getting a larger, roomier car with the approximately the same amount of power and gas mileage. Its built just as well and it is just as reliable. So the question I have is why spend more?
It means you're willing to buy an Elantra but only if it's $1800 less than a Civic.
No it means that I saw more value in the total package. That doesn't mean that I am willing to buy it only if its $1,800 less. To be honest I would buy it over the Civic if they were priced the same.
It also means that people who bought a Civic are willing to pay $1800 more for it than an Elantra because they saw the value in it one way or another.
For the most part I really don't see a good reason other than emotional to get the higher priced car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The Fin
Why would you get offended with my comment if you’re one of the good guys that truly tries to help their customers? The sales guys here are a notch above the average car salesman probably several notches but as you said you are a "professional sales person" so you are in business to make sales and if a buyer is lost as to what they want in a car, even with your good intentions, they’re probably going to hurt themselves. It’s the buyers responsibility to know what they want and if they can afford what you are showing them.
I wouldn’t expect you to say, “Mr./Mrs. buyer, I don’t think you can afford this car so let’s look at that one over there”. As I said to ‘boom’ you have no idea how a customer wants to live so you can only go by what they say and the numbers you see in their report. As we all know, the numbers in those credit reports can be deceiving; otherwise there wouldn’t be so many repos.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This supports my position. Yes some people pay extra for Starbucks, but Starbucks coffee usually loses taste tests. Many of those that willingly pay extra for Starbucks end up preferring another, less expensive, brand.
Believe it or not people will put up with a lot to have a name.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And now for YOU.
NO, the fox I was referring to was the one who ate the chickens not the one who would be satisfied with a mere smell. GOT IT ? :mad: I write a lot clearer than how you interpret. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Ask the folks that bought one. Most will tell you previous good Honda ownership experience, higher perceived resale value, better perceived quality, better perceived performance. Whether some of these are actually factual or just perceived, the customers spoke with their dollars, and Honda set the prices at the right level, and it resulted in sales success.
To be honest I would buy it over the Civic if they were priced the same.... For the most part I really don't see a good reason other than emotional to get the higher priced car.
You may not have seen a reason, but thousands of Honda Civic customers have. Even with the Elantra being a less expensive option, thousands more bought Civics instead. And that's what defines the market.
That's not to say that The Elantra is an inferior car to the Civic, but just that customers are willing to fork out more if they see some sort of a benefit to them.
Now I don't remember how this discussion started...
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
GP, I was just trying to support Jmonroe’s point that Honda charges more for less. We are talking about a top of the line $26K vehicle with leather and sunroof. Name any other new vehicle over $20K that doesn’t have lighted mirrors. Heck, I can’t think of any at any price.
This is just a small example of how Honda is skimping on features to save a measly buck. Makes you wonder where else they are cutting corners.
But my whole point is that for many of these people the decision to buy the Honda is based mostly, if not purely, on perception rather than concrete reasons.
but off I am to watch the Canucks.
Yeah I do remember some poster here boasting that they will sweep the series. Looks like their season might end tonight.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Perception is 90% reality.
Richard
SURE................Just run right out and buy a "import" car and send that money
back to japan or korea !
...........Sheesh!
Words from a wise sage (post # 42963 - the next one after yours)
"I write a lot clearer than how you interpret."
Perception is 90% reality.
Richard
I agree, perception is 90% reality and if you feel better having a Honda that is what you should buy. If you feel you can outfox the system and get a car of equal or better value for less money then you should opt for the Hyundai. It is whatever makes you feel good.
I know people who could easily afford to buy a Rolls Royce. It would kill them to spend that kind of money on a car, so they had a 2000 Malibu, and recently traded it in on an Uplander. That is their perception of a great car, lots of room, you step up to get inside, it is a GM so it can be repaired almost anywhere, and they have an extra $100,000 in the bank.........that makes them happy.
Perception is 90% reality...that was very profound. Actually, I think it is closer to 96%
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
back to japan or korea !
Or pass it on to a domestic car company that makes inferior products and has to over pay their employees.
Lose even more money on depreciation because the product is not as desireable.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"Perception is 90% reality." - richard
Then in this case, 90% of my "reality" states that jmonroe's statement makes no sense. Read it out loud - what does this mean?
PS - "a lot" is non-descript...how much exactly?
Or another is advertisements from the early 90s showing Accords driving past gas stations because they don't need gasoline, I guess. However at the time I bought a 3100 Century that got better gas mileage with an automatic and had more room and was quieter than the Accord; the Accord was better only with a 4-cyl or manual transmission. But the perceptions from the commercials were set in many people's minds regardless of reality.
But that past experience with Honda has changed in re Hyundai. I was watching a dealer commercial showing used cars in Cincinnati a week ago and the blurring of the differences, Hyundai-Honda, became obvious. The dealer listed his Honda Accent and price for sale at Superior Dealership.
I'm not sure where the silly commercial season fits in this other than the younger Saturday Night Live set react positively to them. For more, search Hidy on youtube and you'll find many bad commercials. Note he owns Ford and Hyundai dealerships also and maybe others.
A Hidy Honda video
Hidy wedding
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Because it was sounded like a generalization directed at the industry and salespeople as a whole - just as if someone made a generalized derogatory statement about your profession or other aspect of an important part of your life.
Of course, I disagree.
I dunno roadburner. Don't get me wrong. I like BMWs. Have owned a couple. But, mashing the go pedal, listening to V8 rumble, feeling a huge push back into the seat, that's pretty entertaining to me. Doing that for right around $30K is even more entertaining. On the other hand, I've had more than a few people tell me I'm still a juvenile delinquent....even at my age.
Boy....isn't that the truth.
Richard, I think my leanings with a Grand Marquis are as much emotional as they were practical. Fact is, they aren't the best looking cars out there. They don't have all the "whiz bang" technology that's current today. You won't win any drag races with them. I doubt you'll want to go to the nearest slalom course with one. And, you won't really impress any neighbors with them, either.
They're just very good, very honest cars. They'll get you to Costco and back just as nicely as they will get you cross country and back, in comfort and relatively frugally. You can throw a week's worth of luggage in the trunk (or your lawnmower, if you prefer). You can put 5 people in it and go anywhere/everywhere, and not hear one complaint.
Just as importantly, you can drive one to 150,000 miles with little more than routine maintenance.
Just good, honest, reliable cars, that can be bought at a price that makes you wonder why you'd want to pay more for any vehicle.
isell....before I pulled the trigger on the Accord last summer, I did look at the Camry. First thing out of the salesperson's product pitch upon hearing of the "other" vehicles I was considering was the alleged "noise" issue. Your Buick analogy is correct. I know some recommended I drive the SE version of the 'yoda. But, even though I kept telling the sales person that I didn't think the noise level in the Accord was objectionable, he kept insisting that it would "wear on me".
In almost a year of ownership, it hasn't "worn" on me yet. That includes a couple of 9-10 hour road trips.
GP, no offense, but I found the Altima to have more road noise than the Accord. That may or may not be true in fact.
But, getting back to Richard's quote, sometimes perception is reality.
Why limit yourself? Not only do I send my money to Japan(cars, home theater equipment) and Korea(Blu-Ray player), but I also ship a bit out to Germany(cars, kitchen appliances) and England(motorcycles)
Oh, I almost forgot; I also sent a few bucks to Australia(blender and toaster) :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
But once again it comes down to the reasons the consumers are buying the vehicles...... You have to remember that alot R&D goes into the designs of these vehicles. What is important, and what isn't important.... someone buying a SUV has diferent reasons for buying than someone buying a sedan. Also SUV's cost more to make. So if you are going to keep costs down for consumers you have to decide what goes and what stays.... That is the point I was trying to make.
I do appreciate your insight though....
GP
SORRY SNAKE :shades:
The Bruins are still in it and so are the Celts!!!!
I am still waiting on a wager, and I don't believe I said they would sweep, I just said they would win it all. I will let our records keeper JM find my post.... he is always able to find a post number and able to copy and paste all words written. I definatley don't have that much time on my hands or the patience.
GP
back to japan or korea !
What are you talking about.... It is a global economy.
These imports have factories here also employing Americans! And they are not over paying or price gouging.... Or asking for bail outs... OK I may be a little emotional about my product and feel like I have to defend myself
GP
It is a little more than some :surprise:
GP
No offense taken..... It all comes down to perception.... and we have already discussed that one
GP
GP
What make comes from Australia?
Our washer and dryer came from New Zealand, Fisher Paykal.
I don't think otto is coming back here.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Not true at all. Roof (and pillars) create a closed-box frame, also knows as safety cage. Box sections are much stronger than open sections (and it's not by something like 10 or 20%, it's by hundreds of percent), especially when thin walls are involved (like sheet metal in cars) and especially under torsional load (any collision force is applied at certain offset from center of gravity of the vehicle cross-section, thus the "safety cage" section is in both torsion and direct bending). In order of offset loss of rigidity due to roof, most convertible vehicles have to have way stronger floors, which makes them hundreds of of pounds heavier than their coupe counterparts.
In other words, having strong roof is absolutely essential in collision safety of a sedan/coupe design. Without it, the vehicle would fold like an accordion under any force that comes from the front or side.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I think that was me
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
You mean Fisher & Paykel :P
I didn't know they were from NZ. I always thought they were German.
Might not know how to spell it, but I know where they are.
Fisher & Paykel is a major appliance manufacturing company based in East Tamaki, New Zealand.
Originally an importer of domestic refrigerators,[3] Fisher & Paykel now holds over 420 patents[4] and bases its identity on innovative design, particularly in the areas of usability and environmental awareness
Also, we are very impressed with the washer and dryer. It was the only front loading dryer with economy save. My wife likes that so she can still use the top to fold and sort etc. It does sound a bit like a jet taking off, but it does work well.
Fisher Paykel
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You can. Nail the package to the tree before you add water. :P Where there is a will, there is a way.
Richard