Toyota Highlander

rsholland · March 2001

Re: Subarus lacking a low range.

Not true. Subaru has offered, and continues to offer a low range on virtually all manual transmission models (except the Impreza WRX and other ultra-performance models) sold overseas (Australia, Europe, etc.). North America used to get a low range, but it was discontinued several years back.

This is an area of hot discussion over at the "Subaru Crew" Owners Club here at Edmunds. We're hoping Subaru will once again offer that feature, especially on the Forester lineup.

BTW, the ST-X concept Outback-based pickup, shown at last year's LA Auto Show, and which will be introduced in 2003, did have the dual-range transmission.

Bob

akg · March 2001

I am new to this message board and I am interested in a new 4x4 Highlander and I live about 4 hrs north of San Jose. Is the Highlander that you don't like a 4x4? What opptions does it have and color? Just a thought.... Also, what kind of realistic gas mileage does the fourwheel drive get? Thanks!!!

birdie68 · March 2001

The noise is only heard inside and like I said I don't even notice it anymore. I think it is normal. I'll have to monitor the situation. I would be concerned only if the noise got louder and/or the engine got rougher. By the way the reference about being in Toronto was a joke. I don't think the weather up here has anything to do with the noise.

tonychrys · March 2001

I wasn't joking about the weather part, this is exactly what the lead Lexus tech told me. Claims the noise is less noticable once summer gets here and things are warmer. The ambient temperature can definitely have an impact on certain vehicle operations.

cmcardle · March 2001

Took a V6 4x4 Limited out yesterday for about an hour, and I was perfectly happy in there. I'm 6'5", wore a baseball cap, and had room between my head and the roof/ sunroof. And, I could get my legs in easily, and once there, they had room too. (Some may snicker, but my first consideration with any car is "can I fit?")

Also, some discussion has been made of the center console - it's nowhere near high enough to rest your elbow on as some have asked. It comes up to approximately the top of the seat, maybe not even that high. There are fold-down armrests on the chair, though. You can't use the seat mounted cupholders with the console, but there is a double-holder that flips out of the front of the console.

a2esq · March 2001

If someone has driven both, can you give me your driving impressions (acceleration, cabin room, handling, traction, etc.) I am leaning to the Highlander (primarily to save $$ and current RAV4 has been good to me). Also, I can't seem to get an MDX to test drive (all are pre-purchased).
I have priced the highlander and, by cutting back on some options (no leather, no limited) but retaining some (V6, AWD, moonroof, cd player, skid control, alloy wheels, keyless entry, towing prep) for around $30-31k, I can justify the savings from the MDX. If the differences are primarily the options, a bit of room and 3rd row seats then I can live with that. If the MDX has superior power, handling, traction, and ride comfort then I might reconsider. I tend to think the MDX is a better deal than a fully loaded highlander (although I haven’t driven the MDX). Thanks in advance.

qgu · March 2001

Yes, I have driven both. In fact I have also driven the Toyota Sequoia. I ended up with an MDX. Sitting inside HL is very much like sitting in my Nissan Stanza except for the height. I picked MDX because it is roomier, faster, more luxury but not much more money comparing with a loaded HL (only couple hundred dollars difference). But as you know, you can strip down HL but not the MDX.

cliffy1 · March 2001

Now sometimes I get accused of being too big a fan of Toyota, but come on. A Stanza?

bcyim · March 2001

A couple of hundred dollars? Are you serious?

Comparing MSRP to MSRP may be. My friend just got a Highlander Limited V6 with leather, sun roof, cd changer, and side airbag for 3k less than MSRP. For a MDX, they are going for straight MSRP, plus a couple of months' worth of waiting...

I think the MDX should be compared to the RX300 instead. Leave the HL to the upcoming Honda SUV...

skyreb · March 2001

Today I bought my first tank of gasoline. I knew it was doing very well, but was pleasantly surprised with 21.68 mpg. With that having been said, there are factors to consider. I live in New Hampshire, and none of my driving is "city driving." On the other hand, this is a brand new engine, and I am using a break-in method that necessitates acceleration and deceleration. Normally not helpful to achieve maximum fuel efficiency. Additionally, it has been cold, so there is a bit of warm-up time, and lastly, the fuel is blended here in the northeast per federal regulations to reduce emission, which normally reduced efficiency by 2-3 mpg. With all that stated, I am very pleased.
One additional point that made me happy: I discovered the fuel guage is very accurate, as I travelled approximately the same total miles in each quarter (about 110 miles per quarter tank). This is a small point, but it is nice to know.
I hope you are doing as well.

houtexan · March 2001

Yes I drove both. My test drive of the Highlander 2WD V6 SR5 was positive. It's strong, and... felt like my 98 Camry V6. It rides lower than the MDX and the Highlander can't take turns as quickly. I use to drive a Honda Accord and I really like the way the MDX drives. I'm no sports car nut so I don't do turns at 100mph or anything like that. But the MDX does feel more solid to me. In fact, I'd feel safer taking my MDX on a turn than my Camry.

That said, the price of the Highlander is getting very good. My co-worker ordered one with 2WD, V6, leather interior, rear spoiler, luxury package (pwr seats, etc). All for $28K ($30K including tax & lisence).

That's $7K cheaper than my base MDX. He doesn't have moonroof, 4WD, 3rd roll seats, 17"alloy wheels, 2nd AC/Heat unit, 4yr warranty, free loaner car, TLC service and a "Luxury Brand Name" SUV. But if you can skip the luxury stuff then for $28K, the Highlander V6 isn't that bad. I don't think he ordered side airbags or VSC. (These are must have items for me if I was going to buy the Highlander). There are some issues about VSC and getting stuck in snow but it doesn't snow in Houston.

BTW, I checked the resale value for the MDX and this is according to Money Magazine March 2001. The resale value for MDX after 5 years is 52%. This is the HIGHEST percentage in the article. For comparsion, RX300 is 45% as is the ML320. Highlander is too new or something and is not rated.

Cars are a depreciating asset. It's nice to know that me MDX will lose me the less amount of value after 5 years.

grplavloff · March 2001

"BTW, I checked the resale value for the MDX and this is according to Money Magazine March 2001. The resale value for MDX after 5 years is 52%."

The MDX has been out for less than a year, so this has to be guesswork.

dniehus · March 2001

I still have that Money article. So, let's look a little deeper, shall we?

The estimate for the MDX is not very credible. Acura has no experience with SUV's. Their predicted depreciation for other models is as follows: Integra, 39%; CL, 43%; RL, 37%; and TL, 45%. What would be the reason to expect a substantially lower rate of depreciation? Honda rates as follows: Civic, 40%; Accord, 41%; and CRV, 42%.

OK, Toyota with far more meaningful experience with SUVs: 4Runner, 42%; LandCruiser, 44%; and RAV4, 41%. The Highlander was not included in the article. However, it's probably reasonable to expect it to fare similarly to the Lexus RX300 which has a predicted depreciation of 45%.

I'd guess the MDX will be closer to 45%, same as the Lexus. In the many pages of listings, there are precious few vehicles with predicted depreciation of over 50%. Only time will tell. But, I certainly wouldn't put too much credence in this article's prediction in terms of hard economic comparisons of purchases of vehicles which are less than one year on the market.

akg · March 2001

I am confused......I want an SUV for the mid $20-30 and I just don't know what to get. It's all alot of money and I want the right vehicle for the northern California terrain. I want decent gas mileage, roominess, good looks, four wheel drive, good handling and turning and a good warranty.

The MDX was my original interest, but there is not an Acura dealer within 4 hours from me, and it sounds like the availability is so bad that 'bidding wars' to get MDX's occur!! The Yukon is big and gets terrible gas mileage. The 4Runner has limited roominess and is expensive....So the Highlander seems like the answer.....But still I think there are more options for me. Are there? Can anyone out there suggest other SUV possibilities? Even for research sake?

Also, can anyone suggest a Toyota dealership in the Northern Cal area(Eureka to San Francisco) who deals with $500 over invoice for the Highlander? Thanks!!!

tonychrys · March 2001

akg Mar 2, 2001 9:55pm

How about some facts???

1. Roominess- how many and what type (adults, children, etc.) do you expect to carry on a regular basis?

2. Terrain-- are we talking paved roads winding through the mountains? Or are talking about true off-roading? Combination of both? Then if so, you have to compromise some ride quality.

3. Do you need part-time 4wd (you have to select it manually), auto-4wd (normally 2wd, switches to 4wd when the car senses wheel slippage), or full-time AWD (all four wheels have power all the time)?

There are a lot of choices out there, but do yourself a favor and prioritze the exact features and specs you desire.

tbuchta · March 2001

Just purchased a v6 highlander. Tried to get one that was pretty basic, but the best I could find was one without the limited package, still had nearly all the other packages, appearance, tow pret, convenience, preferred, roof rack, heated outside mirror! Cost was mid 28k. Reason, like many here I am just sold on toyota (Camry with over 200,000 miles, like new, nothing but basic maint and cv boot in 10 years).

Now for a question I hope someone can help with. Is this drive train similar enuf to the rx 300 so that I can get a book on on that vehicle to be able to do basic maintenance (fluids filters)?
The owner's manual that comes with the vehicle doesnt cover even oil change, and the factory book is exorbitantly expensive...

Also, does anyone know what the base cd/cassette/receiver and speaker specs are? At some point I am sure to upgrade (am a music nut), and I would like to know whether to start with the speakers or the player.

rsholland · March 2001

Subaru Outback. It has everything your asking for except the SUV "label." Here in Maryland an H6 LL Bean Outback can be had for under $27K. The top-fo-the-line VDC model (which has electronic stability control) can be had for just under $30K. Note they both sticker higher than that, but I know for a fact they can be had for the prices I just mentioned.

You could also look at the Forester (we own a new S Premium), but it's not that roomy for back seat passengers. It has a HUGE moonroof though, and is plenty powerful with the 165 HP 2.5L boxer 4 engine.

Bob

tonychrys · March 2001

"Now for a question I hope someone can help with. Is this drive train similar enuf to the rx 300 so that I can get a book on on that vehicle to be able to do basic maintenance (fluids filters)?
The owner's manual that comes with the vehicle doesnt cover even oil change, and the factory book is exorbitantly expensive..."

Uhh, I hate to break this to you but the RX300 shop manual is very expensive also. Your owner's manual should list fluid capacities and viscousity ratings necessary for all fluids. Anything more than that and you will need the shop manual or a service tech that would be willing to point out a few tricks on maintenance.

tbuchta · March 2001

Let me clarify, I have picked up repair/maint books that are marketed at parts dealers for my vehicles for less than 10 bucks, highlander being new wont be available in such aftermarket books for a while hence the question about the rx 300,

tonychrys · March 2001

Again, I think you're out of luck. I did a search on both Amazon and Barnes & Noble for Lexus related repair/maintenance and could find no books related, Chilton, etc.

The official Lexus RX300 maintenance book is expensive (>$100 I think). I'll probably end up getting it because I plan on holding onto the vehicle for at least 4 years and will do some "mods".

Good luck.

deerlake7 · March 2001

In terms of your question dealing with the value of purchasing a less costly Highlander vs. an MDX, you need to have some patience and find a way to drive both yourself. Everyone is so different, none of us can give an answer for you. I've driven both (3 MDX's, including one for a day & 3 Highlanders) and wound up with the Highlander. As I've mentioned earlier, we don't like leather so the MDX had one strike against it, but I also found it cumbersome handling, full of creaks and squeaks and tight in the back seat. For us, the Highlander was far superior in those attributes and in terms of power, although the MDX is slightly stronger, it's not enough to amount to much. On the other hand, there have been a couple of people who say the MDX is the way to go and that's great. Either one is too much money to not try both for yourself.

dianne4toyota · March 2001

akg, I can give you that information. Please email me privately at the address in my profile.

Thanks.

Dianne

abuyer1 · March 2001

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Highlander-loaded-limited versus MDX. I've test driven each one once, rather briefly, and my impressions may be inaccurate. I liked the MDX a lot on highways and wide boulevards, but when driving on city streets in traffic, I was less happy with the MDX. Its larger size, heavier weight, and especially its unusual width gave me a "crowded" feeling in heavy street traffic, while I was as comfortable in the Highlander as in my current Camry in heavy street traffic. I wonder whether others have had a similar impression. I drive a lot in street traffic, so I currently prefer the Highlander. But if my impressions are inaccurate, perhaps I should try test driving the MDX again.

dianne4toyota · March 2001

That the much larger MDX should be compared so regularly to the Highlander is a surprise to me. MDX is a lot more costly, (most at MSRP, I hear) and larger as I see it. Higher off the ground for clearance, and I really expected the Highlander to be compared to RX300 mostly, Forester, 4Runner, and the smaller SUVs with harsher rides like Escape, Pathfinder, etc.

And, Toyota covered it's bases with an entry-leve 4cyl with nice features for a $25000 MSRP in 5cyl, taking the place of the cheapie 4Runner 4cyl we'd had for years.

Dianne

dniehus · March 2001

Has anyone seen test results or predictions of crash worthiness or relative rollover risk for the HL? Is it reasonable to expect comparable performance to the Lexus RX300 which is rated very well as a result of crash tests? I recognize that the rollover ratings are somewhat controversial (especially criticized by the auto companies, of course). I could not find rollover rating for RX300 or 4Runner (which could be comparable). For what it is worth, the Subaru Forester, Ford Escape and Mazda Tribute each earned 3 stars (out of five) in the NHTSA rating system. I plan to get the vehicle skid control, which should help. Thanks.

dniehus · March 2001

I note that Edmunds finally has HL pricing showing on the site, including their True Market Value. Not sure why this info was absent for so long -- ?? Anyway, it's interesting to see that TMV is about $900 less than MSRP. Hopefully this will keep coming down as supplies become more plentiful over the next couple of months. (Right Toyota?)

rsholland · March 2001

The Forester really falls somewhere in between the Highlander and Rav4, both in features and power. It's probably more comparable to the Rav4, in terms of price and size.

The Highlander is, IMHO, more comparable to an Outback (price, power, features), even though the Outback is a wagon, and not an SUV. The Highlander is larger and can tow more than an Outback. On the flip side, the Outback is a sportier ride, and is a bit less expensive feature-for-feature.

Bob

hawkeye70 · March 2001

There have been quite a few HL buyers on this board reporting deals of $1500-$2000 off MSRP for 2WD models and up to $3000 off MSRP for AWD models. And Dianne has a deal this weekend on her website for $2700 off MSRP for some AWD models. So, Edmunds TVM seems on the high side to me.

rbadan · March 2001

My wife is interested in the Highlander and I have a couple of questions. First, I was wondering what I should expect to pay for a basic model? I can probably wait until Summer to buy or lease if that would be more favorable.

Also, any opinions on whether the 4 cylinder is adequate for this car?

Thanks.

tbuchta · March 2001

I recently got to drive the 4 cylinder over a weeks time. It was certainly smooth and quiet in most situations, but going up almost any grade it downshifted quickly into third gear where it stayed even on relatively steep grades (except of course around hairpins going up to ski area in big cottonwood canyon utah). Of course it also sounds and feels like a 4 cylinder in acceleration..... IMOP it would be adequate for someone doing most of their driving on relatively flat terrain with a minimum of towing.

In the end because the dealer could not equip the 4 with the factory tow prep package (has to be done at the factory) they graciously took the 4 back for a six. One thing to think about, the 6 really only costs about 1400 or 1500 dollars more MSRP, but with options will likely run a minimum of 3000 more, and given what you are paying for the vehicle already its really hard to justify the 4 on the basis of a couple of MPG.

weichi · March 2001

Recently bought the 'unlimited' version of this fantastic machine. Enjoying every minute of it. Using every excuse to get out on errands. Was driving a Passat prior.
I especially enjoy the Highlander's driving position, which is magnificent. I added (glued on) a medium size convex mirror to the driver side mirror to get rid of the blind spot. The ride feels great. Interestingly, two friends who have driven it have both described the feeling of the HL as being 'tight'.
I took a long time to decide, but now worth every minute. Thx to this site's many knowledgeable comments for helping me to make my mind.
Now to keep my wife off of it.

By the way, I very much like the free space between the front seats. Great to drop things temporarily.

akg · March 2001

Thanks for all the feedback.....and getting closer. My next question is regarding the restyling of the 2002 4Runner. Since it's pretty muched tapped out price wise(squeezed in between the new Sequoia and Highlander), will it be wider and generally roomier? Anybody seen a photo or specs for this new version?

Also, I'll E-mail Dianne who seems really 'on it' on helping the consumer walk away from the lot with a fair deal. Please continue the feedback. It's a huge investment for me and I really appreciate the fact that I can relate to real people who own these cars.

Oh ya, what's the difference size-wise, price-wise and performance-wise betwwen the Sequoia and let's say, the Chevy Yukon or Ford Explorer. Just curious. Thanks you!!!!

grplavloff · March 2001

"That the much larger MDX should be compared so regularly to the Highlander is a surprise to me. MDX is a lot more costly, (most at MSRP, I hear) and larger as I see it. ..."

The Toyota dealer down the street from my office has two Highlanders sitting out front, each with a sticker price of over $35K. The MDX is in the $35K range. And both vehicles are image SUVs targeted at reasonably well-off expressway-driving suburbanites. So that is why they are being compared (I kinda suspect you know that).

Personally, for $35K I would take the MDX, but it is true that the Highlander feels and drives more like a nice, comfortable midsize sedan than the MDX.

msu79gt82 · March 2001

Based an vehicle consideration only the HL should not be considered competition for the MDX. Indeed the MDX has much more to offer over the HL, although the HL is a fine car. The comparisons are being made because a loaded 4WD HL Ltd (leather, moonroof, premium audio, etc) MSRPs for more than a base MDX!

I and many others have stated many times that at $35K the MDX is a better deal!! The MDX is currently selling at MSRP, but often with dealer add-ons thrown in free. It appears that the HL is starting to sell below MSRP (re: Dianne), however not everyone can find the exceptional deals some have found on this forum. Here in Houston one cannot buy the fully loaded HL Ltd (which is the only one remotely comporable to the MDX) for anywhere near the $2K discount some have claimed.

I still maintain that any HL selling for over $33K is too high. For $2K more one can buy either an MDX or a Lexus RX300!! A moderately equipped HL in the upper $20s is a great car.

skyreb · March 2001

I already own an "Unlimited" HL (V6, 4WD, Appearance Group and etc, but without VSC and TRAC). I am not questioning the engineering of either system (I simply could not afford) but I am wondering about long term service? They seem to be computer controlled, with "wheel speed sensors," "yaw speed sensors," "deceleratio sensors," and "throttle position sensors." I wonder after 5-10 years how all these systems will work? Will most garages be able to evaluate and repair/adjust these systems? I live in snow country, and to date, I see nothing lacking in my on snow performance. I suppose I am a little skeptical, because I have a fear my on-board computer on my 92 Acura has failed. It will be towed to the shop tomorrow.
Also, (an easy question) are the 4 cams belt or chain driven?
I am sure enjoying my HL.

grplavloff · March 2001

"Will most garages be able to evaluate and repair/adjust these systems?"

That's a good question; I've wondered the same thing: new cars are very complicated. One positive aspect of this is that computer chips are
quite robust and should hold up fine. But all those sensors, motors,
wires, etc. throughout these vehicles are likely to be problems
eventually.

drew_ · March 2001

The traction control and stability control systems utilise proven ABS technology and simply builds on it. It is not likely that it will fail after 5 years. The stability control sensors consist of a steering angle sensor, a yaw sensor, a lateral acceleration sensor, and the rest (wheel speed sensors, etc.) are mostly ABS hardware. Yes, it is linked to the engine computer as well. There is no need to "adjust" any of these systems. In the event that something goes bad, the on-board computer will generate an error code and the service department should be able to deal with it.

One of the ways you can see whether VSC is beneficial is if you take a HL equipped with VSC out on slippery/snow covered surfaces and compare it with your own vehicle in some emergency/low speed turning maneuvers. You may be interested in these Quicktime video clips that Subaru Japan has. They illustrate the handling differences between a stability control equipped AWD Subaru Legacy wagon vs. an identical wagon with the system deactivated not only in emergency situations, but also in day-to-day driving conditions. Note the amount of driver interaction/input needed to control each vehicle. Again, the differences are quite significant.

http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC1s.mov

http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC2s.mov

http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC3s.mov

http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC4s.mov

Hope this helps!

Drew
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tonychrys · March 2001

I'll comment since this one of my fields of expertise.

As you already pointed out, you've already got a lot to worry about regarding sophistication because of the on-board CPU module on almost all cars nowadays. But don't forget, your ABS and airbag systems also use sophisticated sensors. And it ain't gonna get any simpler.

One of the biggest goals in automotive engineering is to reduce the weight of the car without compromising structural integrity. One area being targeted is the hundreds(!) of feet of copper wiring that is used to homerun all the lights, motors, and electronics throughout the vehicle's body. One way to do this is to distribute some of the intelligence needed to control these systems throughout the body and then join these islands of intelligence together using a single cable in the form of an in-vehicle local area network (LAN). This reduces the weight due to copper wiring significantly.

And it's already happening! I can go into a hidden diagnostic screen on my RX300's LCD systems display and run a diag test on the in-vehicle LAN. And soon these copper-based LANs will be replaced by fiber-optics to reduce weight further.

I miss the good old days of my used 1970 Chevy Nova with the straight-6 engine. It was simple and I could "tune-it" just by twisting the distributor cap and listening to the engine.

But there is just no way around the sophistication being introduced into the cars. And the local mechanics have to adapt by buying all the computerized diag tools necessary. All they do is tap into the wiring harness/LAN and let the diag tool do the rest. The most important tool the local mechanic of the future will need is a big bank account to buy all the computerized equipment necessary to do their job. The ones that don't will be working on old VW beetles.

needsahl · March 2001

Anyone have any luck buying a Highlander in SC Florida at a good discount? Dealers around here don't seem to want to discount much, more of a take it or leave type attitude.

skyreb · March 2001

I appreciate the information re the on-board computer systems in answer to my "thoughts"

Today as I was looking at my Acura (that is electically dead) I was longing for the days when I could check the battery, the starter motor and solonoid, and the starter switch. I hope the garage that has been servicing it can solve this problem, inasmuch as the nearest Acura authorized service is many, many miles away. At least, the Toyota authorized service is only 30 miles away. ( I live in a small village in northern New Hampshire).

Any answers to my question about cam drive: chain or belt?

drew_ · March 2001

I remember reading about that diagnostic screen in the other topic. BTW FWIW, MB has already switched to fibre optics for their in-vehible CAN (they call it the Control Area Network) and other electronic components (ex. radio headunits/CD changer/GPS). Interesting stuff!

Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

hugotung · March 2001

We took home our Highlander three days ago. Millennium Silver 4x4 V6 with DR EH TO AG CQ HE CF. This SUV is for the wife, and so far she's enjoying every minute driving it. We paid $27800 plus tax and registration for the vehicle. The fleet manager located the vehicle for us at the port and held the vehicle under our name for almost two weeks while we test drove it multiple times and finalized the purchasing decision, all without having us signing any document or put down a deposit, and did not let any other customer touched it during that period. We felt this was a fair deal for both us and the dealer and a good car buying experience.

We've test driven many other vehicles over the past two years, including Acura MDX, MB ML320, Nissan Pathfinder, Infiniti I30, Acura TL, Honda Accord, BMW 3-series, VW Passat, and many others. Each has its pluses and minuses. At the end, we felt that the HL 4x4 V6 strikes a solid combination of comfort, utility, performance, build quality, reliability, style, and price.

We are very happy with our choice! Thanks all in the Edmunds Town Hall for sharing with us so much valuable information.

jackflack · March 2001

After 48 hours with my 4cyl FWD I'm loving it. True that the engine labors a bit on the hills but as a commutermobile it's fine, and peppy when you need it to be. Wife and kids absolutely love it and I think my golfing buddies and their clubs will, too. Haven't noticed any tapping in the engine, so maybe that's a 6cyl phenomenon. Center console is on back order here in NJ. I got 500 off MSRP of 25500 (which I was happy with because local dealers seem pretty firm on the sticker, and I sold my other car for a good price).

tonychrys · March 2001

Yup, MB is definitely on the cutting edge when it comes to the body electronics. They're smart (understatement) because they realized years ago in order to add more and more features/safety would mean more wiring and weight.

Anybody interested in this stuff should visit the SAE (society of automotive engineers) web site page http://www.sae.org/topics/technol.htm#telematics

I was involved in the SAE when I worked on the LAN concepts for the F-14s and military vehicles.

amkup · March 2001

Still trying to pick the HL for me. I want to know if VD is available with the FWD version of the HL. Also, have been getting the story a few places that being a good driver is more important than VD, so purchasing without this feature won't be such a big deal. Any thoughts? It has been helpful to see VD + Trac generally given such high marks on the forum. I really don't want to buy a vehicle that I plan on keeping be out of date because I didn't hold out for an important safety feature.

tonychrys · March 2001

"Also, have been getting the story a few places that being a good driver is more important than VD"

I'm not mad at anyone in particular, except the yahoos who make this claim. Everyone out there ask yourself a few simple things:

1. Are you a NASCAR driver and drive for a living? Can you literally skid a car into any direction you want with any part of the car pointing in any direction you want when it comes to stop? At any speed?

2. Let's assume you are a great, safe driver. You don't speed or tailgate. Guess what? You are outnumbered on the highway by at least a hundred to one. All it takes is the other guy to do something stupid that is beyond your control.

3. In regards to number 2, some guy cuts you off. You have to swerve to avoid hitting him. This is a common emergency manuever. Depending on the traffic speed, there is a good chance the vehicle will be in an under or over steer condition. On dry or wet pavement, VD (VSC) will help to prevent this.

It amazes me the handful of folks who think they are invincible on the road. In my opinion NASCAR racing is still safer than driving to work everyday because they at least they have drivers who are professionally trained and know the limitations of their vehicles... and follow the rules of the track.

Sorry for the rant.

svec7186 · March 2001

where are you located? what dealer sold the hl for $27800 + tax + dmv?

thanks

houtexan · March 2001

Here in Houston, my co-worker is getting a Highlander for about $28K. It's not limited and only 2WD without moonroof. But it has leather and power driver seat and it's a V6. It's also about $3K below MSRP. So the deals are out there. You just have to find it. However, a fully loaded Limited is another monster. I don't know if you can get one with $3K + under MSRP.

To Diane,

I was going to wait for the Highlander before I got my MDX so I was cross comparing the 2. I was hoping the Highlander was going to be more affordable (with the goodies) and look better (it has a terrible looking nose - IMO) but it failed both tests.

I tested drove it and found it to be pretty close to driving and handling with my 98 Camry V6. So it's actually a good little...tall stationwagon. (BTW, I only say that because I like stationwagons).

Really, if Acura didn't make a MDX, I'd probably be driving a Highlander now. But that's neither here or there.

michanth · March 2001

Dear HouTex (Msg# 1055)

I live in Houston, so which Toyota Dealership is it & who was the Sales person & what magic words do I have to say???

You may email me directly if you like.

Thanks in Advance
Michael

"Here in Houston, my co-worker is getting a
Highlander for about $28K. It's not limited and only 2WD without moonroof. But it has leather and power driver seat and it's a V6. It's also about $3K below MSRP. So the deals are out there. You just have to find it. However, a fully loaded Limited is another monster. I don't know if you can get one with $3K + under MSRP."

dianne4toyota · March 2001

This past weekend, I realized I was overwhelmed with the 4WDs with MSRPs from $30195 to $30394 and was selling them off at $2700 under MSRP, so that pricing isn't so unusual in TX is it?

As for the MDX pricing, the rule of thumb here for a "typical" 2WD Highlander, well equipped, is about $28700 to $29000 and the 4WDs at $30200 to $30500.

The Highlander 2WD or 4WD Limiteds with MSRPs at $33500 to $35000 are actually the "exception to that rule" and not the norm here. That was why I was surprised that a $35000 MDX was being compared to a car I see priced a lot lower. And, MDX is consistently at MSRP these days around here in So Cal as well where I am obviously well off the MSRP for Highlanders in comparison.

Dianne

Toyota Highlander

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