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Comments
Nice looking package.
Surely the HL will have this 230 hp engine soon as well as Sienna and RX...maybe for '04 also? That would be about mid-cycle for the current HL, and timely for a revision or two...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Driving Grandma home that night up the winding hills of Wolcott mountain, and then back down again, I gotta say that my only problem was visibility!
The shortcomings of the all-season Duelers were poor braking, and control on ice and snow. They were ok as far as accelerating, but I attributed that to AWD. They are also reasonably ok on dry roads.
I know - one is supposed to drive slowly and cautiously in slippery stuff, and SUV drivers get a lot of flak for driving beyond their vehicles' ability to stop or turn.
But with these Arctic Alpins, my get-goin' traction is much better, and the car handles and stops to a degree that matches the get-go.
On that trip down the mountain, I tried the brakes, and could actually feel the G-force of decelleration, as the car halted with minimal ABS activity. This is in 6 to 8 inches of snow, slush and ice mixed. I'm impressed.
The best part? These tires actually ride better than the Dueler HT's. The dry-road handling seems - to me - to be as good if not better than the HT's.
There is a little bit of "noise" at low speeds, like you can hear and slightly feel all the little sipes acting as squeegies on the pavement. This goes away at around 35 or 40 mph.
Also, those steel take-off wheels that the Tire rack mounts the tires on are actual silver painted Highlander styled steel wheels. They look kinda, well, uh - manly!
Rather than tie up the board, if I can email you, I'll send a recap of my experience to date, so you can give the HL serious consideration.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Yikes! What have we DONE?? ;-)
tidester, host
Email is fine, however, I purposely kept my email address private in my profile, and I'm a bit uncertain about putting that kind of personal info right out here on the board. This HL forum has been pretty civilized (more or less) but the general atmosphere on Edmunds (particularly on some forums, as I mentioned in my earlier post on the Camry board, to which you initially responded) has not been as friendly these days as it has been in the past. I'm not sure why that is, or maybe it's just my perception.
So please, if you would, post your comments here. I'm sure that many others will appreciate them as much as I will.
BTW, someone at my gym has the exact HL that I would get (if I could). Indigo blue, AWD V6 Limited. Beautiful!! I stare at it every time I see it. Surprising to me, but true. There's just something about this particular SUV that catches my eye. The HL is one of the few SUVs that I truly like. I'm really more of a sedan person, or so I thought. What color/trim is your HL?
P.S. I guess I'm the exception to your Midwest rule, once I get going. :-)
SilverCrown
2003 HL Ltd. V6 4WD Silver Metallic w/Ivory leather. Pretty much fully loaded, as the dealer said these are mfr'd in Japan and for our region, there are few options available. With special order availability questionable, you pretty much take them with what they have on them. MSRP was $35,500 and we purchased for $32,100 + TTL. Given the demand for HL's, we got a good deal, but then, this was our 3rd car from the dealer. We put it in service on Nov. 29 and have had several ice and snow storms on the hills of KY. to test it.
So far, I am quite pleased. It definitely handles smoothly, rides more like a car and is very comfortable. The overall size makes it easier to park and maneuver and with its lower height and profile, it is more stable in turns and less affected by cross winds. Interior room is spacious for legs and heads and the reclining rear seats are a nice touch for longer trips. The fold down flat rear seats allow for quick conversion to large hauling space. Loading groceries at hip height is much better than bending into a trunk. There are tons of cup holders and sundry storage compartments - real conveniences.
With just fewer than 2,000 miles on it, we're getting @ 18 MPG. I'm running it on mid-grade gas(89 octane) because for air quality reasons,we have that blasted reformulated stuff in KY.
In this forum, the fuel issue for the V6 has been discussed, but there seems to be no consensus as to using the recommended regular v.s. premium, so I split the difference. Seems to have plenty of power and good acceleration, so I'll continue.
MY LIKES: Solid SUV with nicely designed creature comforts, car like ride and handling, secure performance in bad weather and good cargo capacity. It goes when it snows and provides pretty confident handling. The utility space of the vehicle is well laid out and easy to use. Lots of room and versatility.
MY DISLIKES: As noted in this forum, the tires don't provide the best performance for braking and turning in slick conditions. The VSC helps, but traction is the key and the Duelers are adequate at best. I'd like better gas mileage and perhaps with more break in time, I'll get a bit more. But, I guess that's what you should expect with an SUV. Also noted in this forum was the so-so performance of the radio speakers. Again, they're OK, but the sound system could use some improvement. Finally, although I haven't had problems with the brakes, the brake pedal is much softer than I like and sometimes I feel like I have it to the floor before stopping. A bit disconcerting at times.
Before buying an SUV, rather than another car, I spent most of the summer researching things. For all the reasons I decided on the HL, I am pleased with the early experience. It is what I hoped it would be. I'm not an off roader and I just wanted an upscale SUV for comfort, bad weather performance and versatility. Coupled with the expected Toyota quality and reliability, I believe it will serve our family well. I hope this real world stuff helps anyone considering an HL and if I can answer other questions, feel free.
ps silvercrown: I liked the Indigo, too; it was sharp. As a Xavier Univ. alum, it was my 2nd choice.
- Some postings have indicated that the Hidden Hitch is easy to install. How about the Draw-tight?
- I have seen the Hidden Hitch installed and it looks good. As the name implies, it tucks nicely under the bumper. I have not seen a Draw-tight installed... what is your opinion on the appearance / fit?
- The Hidden Hitch cost about $140. The Draw-tight about $110. What did you pay and where it was it purchased?
Thank you!
Read today that they are putting into production in 2003 a Highlander with electric/gas engine combo like Pirus. That would be very popular I would think.
"But buyers looking for cleaner, greener cars aren't left out here either. Carmakers are scrambling to earn credits toward California's zero-emission vehicle mandate by introducing hybrid electric vehicles.
GM announced a plan to introduce at least five new hybrid electric cars - from big pickup trucks to economy cars - in the next five years. Toyota announced a second hybrid electric vehicle going into production this year - this time in the small Highlander sport utility vehicle.
Other automakers are going farther. Honda and Mercedes-Benz each showed fuel cell vehicles. The Honda will be sold to fleets next year. And while it won't please clean-air mavens, Jeep announced it will sell a diesel-powered Liberty SUV here starting next year, that gets 10 percent better fuel mileage. For some, that's a little too retro."
Based on your comments, I think that the HL could be the best SUV alternative for someone like me who is only accustomed to driving cars, but considering the purchase an SUV. Coming from a Camry, I have gotten used to a nice, smooth ride and a certain level of refinement. Add a few luxury items, and I'd be an even happier camper.
The things that would concern me if I were to seriously consider buying an HL is the soft brakes that you mentioned and the stock tire issue (which I believe has been mentioned elsewhere on the board). The tire issue is probably easier to rectify than the brakes.
The reasons that you mentioned for buying the HL match most of the factors that attract me to it. I'd like something a little more luxurious than my Camry LE, that handles a little better but is just as smooth and comfortable a ride. Safety, power, utility and features that would provide better performance during adverse weather conditions are also important. And I'd like to stay with the Toyota "family" because I am comfortable with the dealers here and I have been treated well by them. The HL sounds like it would be a good fit for me. If only I were in a position to do so in the near future. It will probably be a while before I'll be ready to switch vehicles. It just would not be prudent right now. :-(
However, I will keep all of this in mind for future reference because you never know what the future may bring. When I get my oil changed next month, I may take another look at an HL, maybe even do a test drive. I'll keep you posted. I realize that I already sound like I'm sold on the HL right now. :-)
Thanks for sharing your opinions and for being so gracious about it. I'm glad to hear that you are having such a great experience with your beautiful new HL. I'm sure it will continue for years to come. Enjoy your car and please keep us posted.
Has anyone removed one of these? Can it be done? I don't mind if it looks bad knowing that it can be put back in place later on.
Going from a Honda CRV to the HL, I noticed a big difference. The CR-V brake pedal was very firm - no movement. Like using a strain gauge device, even though there is no movement - the harder you push, the "strain" would be proportionally larger.
In the HL - the brake feels softer - and travels a lot more than I was used to. Pumping the pedal does reduce the pedal travel.
I have on occasion - not braked hard enough - soon enough, leading me to brake really hard at the last moment. Never had a problem stopping when I had too. I just need to re program my foot to accept the softer pedal feel.
There must be a ton of "pods" available as a lot of people have switched from "pod" to console.
Having a "softer" pedal feel would undoubtedly assist the BA electronics in detecting a seeming "panic stop". And as most of you are aware, with power brakes pedal feel doesn't necessarily relate to actual braking severity/activity.
They say they are putting that HUGE engine in all their new models.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Can't say for certain about the HL, but my 01 AWD RX (supposedly the exact same engine, driveline, AWD system, etc.) because of the predominance of FWD torque over rear has a LARGE amount of torque steer under hard acceleration, especially in a tight turn under acceleration.
I'd be suspicious about front tire balance or out of round tire, first.
My second guess would be something a little loose in the front driveline, a failing CV joint on one side, say.
Not a normal aspect of AWD regardless.
Being not a real fan of the FWD "feel", the fact that I can't really detect torque steer on the AWD HL is one of the reasons I bought one.
I attribute this to the claimed 50/50 front-rear torque distribution.
Our '97 4 cyl. Camry has quite a bit of torque steer, our 2002 V6 AWD HL hasn't any that's apparent to me.
I would think any misalignment or unbalance in the front end would be detectable in the steering wheel regardless of FWD, or RWD, or AWD.
I agree with wwest, that it's probably a tire out of balance, or out of round. Also, these days where there's snow & snowbanks, all you need is a clump of snow or slush stuck to the inside of your wheel rim to cause the ol' steering wheel shimmy!
Re: Dash/Console Disassembly?, Nov 20, 2002, in discussion "Toyota Highlander."
Re: Removing center console?, Sep 05, 2002, in discussion "Toyota Highlander Owners: Accessories & Modifications."
Re: 2002 console in 2001 model: addendum, Nov 27, 2002, in discussion "Toyota Highlander Owners: Accessories & Modifications."
Was it icy when you test drove the HL? I no longer have my HL, but more than a few times last winter I had water drip and freeze on the wheels during icy weather that caused a vibration--varied from very mild to pretty bad depending on speed and how much ice was on the wheel. It always vanished as soon as the ice melted. Just a thought. Other than that my HL was very smooth--no vibrations.
I have tested it - and the vehicle leaves 4 equal sized divots in the dirt when accelerating from a standstill.
I should have been more precise in describing the problem: Only when accelerating, the steering wheel buzzes. Kind of a tingling feel. Having had and still have more than a few rwd sports cars made me acutely aware of minute movements in the steering wheel.
The buzzing in the steering wheel is not a deal breaker. I am just worry that this minor "problem" might lead to expensive repairs down the road.
I test drove the vehicle on a nice sunny mild day for about 15 minutes. I'll have to test drive a few other ones.
My wife did not noticed the buzzing. I guess I'm just a sensitive guy. lol.
Brand-new stock tires shouldn't do the tingly thing. Dedicated winter tires might feel this way, but this is a brand-new car on a dealer's lot, correct?
Maybe an exhaust system component, like a hanger is touching something and transferring vibrations to the wheel. Dunno - just a guess.
Just what practical good do you think AWD does you on a high traction surface such as a dirt road?
Perhaps this buzz you felt in the steering wheel was just the normal vibration of the engine under hard acceleration? That is a possibility, I suppose.
DEFINITELY, test drive a different vehicle, HL would be a great buy.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That not withstanding, the Honda van is still flying off the lots, at least here in the upper midwest. I can't imagine what the new ones are going to do... or how much over invoice they're going to command.
due to the fact that the transmission drives both front and rear drive trains simultaneously.
If your logic holds true - that would never happen as high traction surfaces don't allow the "VC" to heat up and "expand" as you put it - which would allow the torque to be transmitted to the axle with the traction. You contend that on high traction surfaces it is 95/5 as the VC hasn't come into play
Why do you think that when there is no traction on one axle - the other would suddenly not have the 50% that was originally available in the high traction 50/50 situation.
my point is - the VC is between the transmission and the drivetrains - not in between the front and rear propeller shafts.
Actually it takes a really close look/study of the shop manuals to discover/discern just exactly how the VC is oriented/used. You will find IT IS mounted across the center diff'l.
With (just/only) an open differential both output shafts always get equal torque, ALWAYS.
The fact that one output shaft is spinning freely, no frictional resistance, limits the level of "driving force" that can be coupled to the opposite end. Whatever "torque" it takes to get that slipping wheel spinning and keep it spinning is also delivered, simultaneously, to the "opposite" wheel(s).
*****: Both the RX and the HL have different final drive ratios front and rear. That may affect/change the 50/50 native F/R torque distribution ratio. The differing final drive ratios are sometime used to keep the VC fluid at an elevated temperature and therefore quicker reacting on the initial onset of slippage.
What, in practical terms, is the big difference between those two setups and true(?) 4WD? From a driving standpoint, does it matter?
Toyota 4WD systems explained
Steve, Host
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A center VC which gives you 50/50 power distribution at all times creates a different driving feel and driving style for the vehicle, which I prefer by a wide margin to the FWD feel that cars like HL have, which run 90/10 under normal conditions.
However, if you are concerned more with traction, there is no significant advantage to the cars that run 50/50 all the time. In fact, an HL AWD with the VSC and traction control will probably have better traction and be a little safer than a standard center VC system that does not have the electronic aids.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)